Braided (Stainless) Steel Brake Lines?

[ZHPizza]

Actually, guys how was pedal feel after swapping the lines? I feel like mine is the same, or possibly even slightly worse than before. I just did the regular 2-person bleed procedure twice all-round and there were no bubbles. The past few times when flushing my fluid I used my power bleeder, and pedal feel remained consistent, but I didn't swap any parts. I didn't run the reservoir dry so I don't think I'll need INPA to flush the ABS unit, but that may be my next course of action if a few hard ABS stops doesn't solve it

Fyi I definitely wouldn't expect them to feel noticeably better than the OE lines, which are braided under the rubber sleeve.

Did you tap the calipers with a rubber hammer while you were bleeding? That's made a big difference for me at times.

Even with that, though, I haven't been able to get good pedal feel since the first time I swapped the lines. I changed to Garagistic lines (cuz red) when I installed rebuilt calipers and still have a soft pedal.

The INPA bleed definitely helped - got a lot of hidden bubbles out - but it still isn't quite there. I have ECS bronze caliper bushings waiting to install in hopes that the cheap rubber bushings on my centric rebuilds are to blame.

I also found this screenshot that I saved in 2018 after taking the pics above so maybe that's worth a shot?

[Galapolis]

Actually, guys how was pedal feel after swapping the lines?

It feels the same up to about 50% brake pressure, after that it is noticeably stiffer and very constant. 75% is always 75% now, and not 60% sometimes or 68% other times.

[t.er]

Did you tap the calipers with a rubber hammer while you were bleeding? That's made a big difference for me at times.

The INPA bleed definitely helped - got a lot of hidden bubbles out - but it still isn't quite there.

I also found this screenshot that I saved in 2018 after taking the pics above so maybe that's worth a shot?

No I didn't tap the calipers, just plain-old 2-person bleed. I think I'll have to try to re-bleed the calipers with the tapping, and bleed the ABS & DSC units. Also omg this reminds me of the old SAE Baja team at my uni - they legit have a brake bleeder dildo, they'd hold it up to the caliper to shake air out, very effective

It feels the same up to about 50% brake pressure, after that it is noticeably stiffer and very constant. 75% is always 75% now, and not 60% sometimes or 68% other times.

Yeah this makes me think there's likely some air in my system. The first 50% is definitely not as stiff, and I find I'm pressing the pedal a lot more than before for the same amount of stopping power. During hard braking it's decent though, good stopping power and a relatively stiff pedal, but you do have to press pretty hard and far in.

[t.er]

Just re-bled the brakes today. Bit the bullet and bought a replacement Motive bleeder adapter, put silicone paste on the threads of all bleeder screws to prevent air getting past the threads, used INPA to cycle the ABS/DSC unit, and used a mallet on the calipers in an attempt to jiggle out any trapped bubbles. I believe the brakes are ever so slightly better, though there is definitely still more initial pedal travel than before the new pads and rotors. At this point I'm fairly confident there are no bubbles - even with the re-bleed, I didn't see any.

Initial pedal travel to stopping power isn't like how it was before, but pedal firmness is excellent when you step on it, with good stopping power. Perhaps the stiffness of the HPS pad material is lower than standard street pads? Either way, I think I'll be leaving it as-is

[Galapolis]

Initial pedal travel to stopping power isn't like how it was before, but pedal firmness is excellent when you step on it, with good stopping power. Perhaps the stiffness of the HPS pad material is lower than standard street pads? Either way, I think I'll be leaving it as-is

Ohhhhh that's an easy one, I forgot you had HPS pads now. Bro those pads straight up don't work when cold. That's why you are having to press the pedal more now. They take a lot of braking to get up to temp (which is kind of the point of them). The last time I got mine to maximum efficiency was on Tail of the Dragon. Even on my recent trip to Diamondback I wasn't able to get them up to temp. On the plus side, brake fade is literally a thing of the past.

[t.er]

Ohhhhh that's an easy one, I forgot you had HPS pads now. Bro those pads straight up don't work when cold. That's why you are having to press the pedal more now. They take a lot of braking to get up to temp (which is kind of the point of them). The last time I got mine to maximum efficiency was on Tail of the Dragon. Even on my recent trip to Diamondback I wasn't able to get them up to temp. On the plus side, brake fade is literally a thing of the past.

Huh, I'd expect that from something like a DTC-60, but wasn't aware that HPS would make that much of a difference in street driving. Did you experience the same when you swapped from street pads to HPS?

HPS pads seem like a good compromise between DTC-60 (which I was contemplating getting) and street pads, which I'd have to run both and swap them out every track day. But given I have no track experience, and for the convenience I decided to run HPS and avoid having to do that. Looking to start lapping this summer, and it sounds like they'll last a whole lot longer than stock pads, but I don't expect them to not fade after a while. But by the time that happens I'll probably be pulling into the pits for a bit of rest, and to review lap times + footage

[Galapolis]

Huh, I'd expect that from something like a DTC-60, but wasn't aware that HPS would make that much of a difference in street driving. Did you experience the same when you swapped from street pads to HPS?

HPS pads seem like a good compromise between DTC-60 (which I was contemplating getting) and street pads, which I'd have to run both and swap them out every track day. But given I have no track experience, and for the convenience I decided to run HPS and avoid having to do that. Looking to start lapping this summer, and it sounds like they'll last a whole lot longer than stock pads, but I don't expect them to not fade after a while. But by the time that happens I'll probably be pulling into the pits for a bit of rest, and to review lap times + footage

I actually had Cool Carbon ST pads before my HPS. Despite being a street + track compound, the Cool Carbons were hopeless as daily drivers. No bite at all even when slightly warm. Hence why I switched to the HPS. They are definitely better than the Cool Carbons when cold, but even then you can't expect the same bite out of them as street pads until they get decently warm. I still think the HPS are the right move for your situation. It might not feel like it right now, but if my ST experience is anything to go by, the DTC-60 would very likely have been even worse than what you are experiencing now.

[t.er]

I actually had Cool Carbon ST pads before my HPS. Despite being a street + track compound, the Cool Carbons were hopeless as daily drivers. No bite at all even when slightly warm. Hence why I switched to the HPS. They are definitely better than the Cool Carbons when cold, but even then you can't expect the same bite out of them as street pads until they get decently warm. I still think the HPS are the right move for your situation. It might not feel like it right now, but if my ST experience is anything to go by, the DTC-60 would very likely have been even worse than what you are experiencing now.

Makes sense, thanks for the heads up. At least now I can be pretty confident my fluid is good to go. Looking forward to getting out on track this season!