Oil leak lower block

[Pip]

I think I have a Indy visit coming up. I had to drop the lower guard to grab a screw and I found this lovely pool of oil and oil all over the sway bar.

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The bar in the lower portion is the sway bar. The leak looks likely is coming from a gasket on the lower block. I checked the waffle area near the intake and it is clean so I'm ruling out the ofhg. I don't know where it is leaking for sure and I'm not comfortable with the amount of work that seems to be needed. FML.

Anyone had this happen before?

[Pip]

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Another look at the drain plug area showing some oil pooling on the bolts.

[Avetiso]

That's a terrible surprise. Good luck with the fix. A gasket of some sort? Not sure which, haven't had the pleasure of doing any engine work on my car just yet.

[Pip]

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Well I tightened down the bolts in front and near the drain plug hoping for a cheap and easy fix. I'll start her up later and figure how much oil I've lost.

I cleaned it up to hopefully figure out where it is coming from before lurching toward the oil pan gasket because that seems pricey/crazy diy.

[derbo]

oil pan gasket does look like the culprit.. I have one developing too. :(

[kpro]

Oil Pan gasket.

[SoCalZman]

oh my. What is involved in changing that?

[LivesNearCostco]

Support engine from above and remove front subframe. Don't know if you have to disconnect any of the transmission bolts or not (haven't tried this). The day my car needs this, I plan to have oil pan baffles welded in and oil pump sprocket nut inspected.

[danewilson77]

I know Ray did this in his garage.

[Pip]

Yea I was looking at the DIY's available and it seems doable, but is need a few extra tools I don't currently have like the engine support and a swivel socket for the engine mounts. I'll probably try and tackle it next weekend when I have the parts/tools.

For now I'll top off the oil and continue driving car #2.

[LivesNearCostco]

IIRC, the lower engine mount bolts can be removed with a wobble extension instead of a socket u-joint. The passenger upper engine mount bolts might have required a swivel socket, I can't remember. But if you're just dropping the subframe to change oil pan gasket and not changing motor mounts, maybe you can leave the upper mount nuts alone?

[Dave1027]

Yea I was looking at the DIY's available and it seems doable, but is need a few extra tools I don't currently have like the engine support and a swivel socket for the engine mounts. I'll probably try and tackle it next weekend when I have the parts/tools.

Hi Pip,

I see you are in Sac town. I'm in Galt and have a Harbor Freight engine brace if you want to borrow it. You may want to just buy your own though. They only cost $60 and the gas and time getting mine might not be worth the hassle.

I had no problems unbolting the motor mounts. I used a flex head ratchet and a combo wrench. Dropping the sub frame is actually a very easy process. Definately consider replacing the motor mounts. I dropped the subframe to replace the control arms and did not think I needed mounts only to have oil gushing because one was popped. Only the weight of the engine was keeping it together.

[Tnhl1989]

Could you post the link with the engine brace?

[Dave1027]

This is it http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-engine-support-bar-96524.html. It was on sale for $60 when I bought mine.

[Pip]

Dave I might be down that direction so PM me your contact info. My family is in Turlock so i make it down that way fairly often. I won't be attempting until next weekend due to time.

Couple questions for people. I notice Bentley manual states that the reinforcement plate bolts are one time use but the CAB DIY doesn't mention this. I'm assuming everyone is ignoring this.

I had one bolt that I could reach without the reinforcement plate on the engine pan gasket that was stubborn. I was checking torque on the bolts and this one I would turn slightly and it would turn back - WTF!? Bad bolt? My imagination because of the oil/shadow it only looked like it was doing this?

[danewilson77]

I have used mine several times. I wasn't purposely ignoring anything though.

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

[Pip]

Thanks Dane. Just wondering. I was going to reuse them and did a little research before deciding too. I understand the point of reuse because of the change in elasticity to plasticity with over torque, but didn't know if it was crucial.

After spending time below the car and becoming familiar with everything the DIY just seems time consuming. That and that darn automatic fan - PITA.

[LivesNearCostco]

So now my oil pan gasket looks like it's leaking, almost just like Pip's pictures. I was assuming this will be at $400 job (at least) at the indie, but Lanister pointed me to a DIY thread somewhere that shows it can be done without removing the subframe completely. You support the engine, drop the subfrrame some, then either bend the new gasket or cut it to get under/around the oil pickup tube. If you cut it you use RTV to seal the cut spot(s). Some other minor steps might be involved, like unbolt PS pump, loosen or remove swaybar, or loosen steering column shaft. I'm tempted to try this as a DIY but will have to buy the HF engine support bar.

[Smolck]

So now my oil pan gasket looks like it's leaking, almost just like Pip's pictures. I was assuming this will be at $400 job (at least) at the indie, but Lanister pointed me to a DIY thread somewhere that shows it can be done without removing the subframe completely. You support the engine, drop the subfrrame some, then either bend the new gasket or cut it to get under/around the oil pickup tube. If you cut it you use RTV to seal the cut spot(s). Some other minor steps might be involved, like unbolt PS pump, loosen or remove swaybar, or loosen steering column shaft. I'm tempted to try this as a DIY but will have to buy the HF engine support bar.


Far easier to just remove the subframe than try and deal with it in the way. The subframe is only 4 bolts. 2 more for the power steering rack and your two outside control arm nuts and it is free.

Harbor freight sells the support bar for $80.

Here are some links to vids I did of some of the process. These vids are NOT a step by step DIY, but an overview. I did this whole job, by myself, in my driveway in about 4 hours. Not at all hard. And a great time to replace motor mounts and add headers too!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlswBc6V2mg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8O2cQdqiXc

[LivesNearCostco]

Smolck, thanks. Didn't realize it was that easy to remove sub-frame. Sounds like the only difficult part is supporting engine from above, which should be easy with the HF support bar. I have already replaced motor mounts before and no plans to do header, so maybe this isn't that hard. My new oil pan gasket should arrive today, but I'm not in a hurry to do this. I will watch your two videos.

[Vas]

Does not seem that difficult of a job.

Pip, did you ever get the leak fixed?

[Lanister]

Subscribed :)

[Vas]

Only reason I ask is that I have small leak like the one pictured here in the big box.

An OEM gasket is roughly $30.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2rg05lj.jpg

[LivesNearCostco]

Smolck, started watching your videos. Now I finally know what your dog looks like when he's not smiling upside down! If I can drop the whole subframe then I can remove the pan completely and have a shop weld in the oil baffle. (The pan is aluminum right? ) A few questions.


Can I disconnect either inner or outer control arm ball joint? I don't have the ball joint separator tool, but could buy one
Is the inner ball joint definitely taper fit and requires a pickle fork or other ball joint separator?
Did you E46 have a triangular brace instead of the trapezoidal reinforcement plate?
Does the steering rack just stay "hang in" there when you drop subframe?
Does it matter if I disconnect upper or lower nuts on the motor mounts?

[Smolck]

Smolck, started watching your videos. Now I finally know what your dog looks like when he's not smiling upside down! If I can drop the whole subframe then I can remove the pan completely and have a shop weld in the oil baffle. (The pan is aluminum right? ) A few questions.


Can I disconnect either inner or outer control arm ball joint? I don't have the ball joint separator tool, but could buy one
Is the inner ball joint definitely taper fit and requires a pickle fork or other ball joint separator?
Did you E46 have a triangular brace instead of the trapezoidal reinforcement plate?
Does the steering rack just stay "hang in" there when you drop subframe?
Does it matter if I disconnect upper or lower nuts on the motor mounts?


If you disconnect the upper control arm ball joint, then the outers are still connected to the car and get in the way. Doing it my way was easier.

To avoid damage to the ball joint, I would use the tool. Even then you have to be very careful.

Yes, that car was my old 323 and had the triangle brace. The ZHP will have the aluminum one that has more bolts. They are all 16mm.

Yes, the rack just hangs by the tie rods, no issue there.

You can disconnect either. If you disconnect the upper, they come out with the subframe. If you disconnect the lower, they will stay attached to the engine brackets.

Not only a good time to do the baffle, but a GREAT time to shore up the Oil Pump Nut with some wire and more loctite red.

[Dave1027]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but why are you pulling the ball joints from the subframe? Won't the subframe lower with the control arms attached?

[Smolck]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but why are you pulling the ball joints from the subframe? Won't the subframe lower with the control arms attached?

Yes, you are correct.

I was saying to undo the outer ball joint so that you can remove the subframe from the underside of the car, per my video. If you don't disconnect the outer ball joint of the control arm, the subframe will be tethered to the arms via the inner ball joints.

[LivesNearCostco]

Thanks, Smolck. I believe the ZHP oil pump nut is installed with thread locker, but I am thinking of buying a pre-drilled OPN from BimmerWorld and installing it with both thread locker and safety wire. You know the belt + suspenders approach.

[Dave1027]

I was under the impression the neither the inner ball joints or outers needed to be undone. You simply support the engine, unbolt the motor mounts, unbolt the subframe and lower it. The subframe hangs down by the control arms and spindles. That should give you enough clearance to remove the oil pan. You can also unbolt the fcabs if needed.

[Smolck]

I was under the impression the neither the inner ball joints or outers needed to be undone. You simply support the engine, unbolt the motor mounts, unbolt the subframe and lower it. The subframe hangs down by the control arms and spindles. That should give you enough clearance to remove the oil pan. You can also unbolt the fcabs if needed.

I suppose you could do it that way, but I am of the opinion that taking things completely out of the way is easier than trying to work around them. Plus, with the subframe out of the car, it gives me more room to look around, fix other things etc.

I mean, some guys will replace the pan without even dropping the subframe, claiming you can cut it, slide up there, and work it around to make it work. As easy as it was to pull the whole subframe (control arms and all) I think it is just easier that way.