Clutch Went out :(

[SureShot434]

Just like the title says...clutch problems ftw

So I was driving my '01 325i to work last night and about a half mile from the Air Force base is where it went wrong. I pushed the clutch in and went to put the vehicle in gear, and it made a grinding noise and wouldn't go into gear, and then the vehicle died. The clutch pedal stayed pushed in for about 30 seconds and then slowly rose back up to the top. After that I could not get the clutch pedal to move farther than an inch. It felt like pressure was pushing back against the pedal. I can shift into any gear no problem. I just can not push in the clutch, there fore it will not start. I had no warning noises or feelings. It just happened.

Now the fun part!

17:45 - I called my insurance company, USAA, for roadside assistance, and they set it all up and said they would send me a text with the towing company info, and the approx time that they would be there.

18:05 - Received text. ETA of tow truck is 20:03 That is 2 hours from now. No local towing company would take it. The only company that would take the tow was an hour and a half away, which is wear I was going, but I didn't want to wait 2 hours.

18:07 - Called towing company to double check the arrival time. They stated that they did not have an available driver yet, and would call me when they had a driver and he was on the way.

18:29 - Called Towing company and still no driver available.

18:37 - Contacted my roadside asstistance and they said they could not get anyone else to come tow me the hour and a half home.

19:26 - Received a call from roadside assistance and they stated the tow truck was on its way and would arrive in 40 minutes.

20:16 - Tow truck had not arrived and was now 10 mintues past the update I got. Called the towing company and they said their driver was about 20 minutes away.

20:33 - Called roadside assistance and informed them the truck had not arrived yet, and that I had been waiting almost 3 hours now. They said if the truck did not arrive in ten mintues to call them back and they would find someone else to do the tow.

20:46 - Tow truck finally arrives.

I waited 3 hours in total for a tow truck to arrive, and when it did arrive the tow truck was a hunk of crap. The clutch was going out on it and the interior was shot. I was scared riding home in it. I was so pissed, and I just wanted to get home. They towed me to the dealership back in Fort Wayne, IN. The total cost of the tow for my insurance company is $433. 126 miles round trip at $3 a mile plus $55 dollar tow fee. I'm glad I didn't have to pay for it. If I would of had to pay for it, we would have major issues, and I would not have payed full price. The whole experience was just rediculous, and I will never use that towing company again.

/end rant

Soooo any ideas what might be wrong with the clutch? Dealership isn't open until Monday.

Thanks guys

Pics coming off the truck

7645
7644

Oh and he had the front strapped down on the truck by using the tow hook....fml

[johnrando]

No idea, but I feel your pain. SUX!

[BimmerWill]

Possibly fork or throw out bearing?

That sucks man I hope you can get it settled soon. Best of luck.

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[BavarianZHP]

Ahhh, and he's smoking on the job too (or is that a pen???). How many miles does the clutch have? I wish you a smoother journey ahead.

[SureShot434]

Ahhh, and he's smoking on the job too (or is that a pen???). How many miles does the clutch have? I wish you a smoother journey ahead.

No he was smoking. I was too. I was stressed out and worried about my baby, and smoked a whole pack in the 4 hours from leaving home and heading to work until the tow truck picked me up.

[wsmeyer]

Hopeful thinking:

One of the bolts holding the slave cylinder came out or broke and it has rotated off the fork. It's a long shot but it would be pretty awesome if it only cost a bolt to fix and can be checked visually just by crawling under the car and following the clutch line to the cylinder.

Realistically:

I'd guess the fork cracked and bent. I can think of a few other things that would cause the same problem, but all those you'd either feel a big thunk or hear a load squealing.

Honestly I don't think there really is a way to tell exactly what went wrong and what is now damaged without taking the transmission out.

You didn't mention the miles but if you were near the end of the clutch life anyway, this shouldn't be much more $$ than a typical clutch job. RealOEM list the fork as $17.40.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[Oli77]

Sorry to hear about this ordeal. Good luck with all and keep us posted.

[cyberkaa]

Sorry to hear. Went through something similar not too long ago.
Hard to tell what failed until you open it up, but it sounds like the pressure plate gave out.
If you have the stock PP, the first press causes the SAC mechanism to slip and take up all of the slack (pedal falls to floor). Then, pushing the pedal results in the fork hitting the PP without releasing the clutch.

[SureShot434]

Sorry I fogot to list the miles. The car has 162,500 miles approx. As far as I know, it is the original clutch and pressure plate. I found a kit for $208 made by SACHS. Hopefully the stealership can look at it tomorrow and let me know what is wrong with it.

That would be awesome if it was just a bolt lol I doubt it is something as simple as that with my luck

[Whitexi]

Hopefully he didn't tighten down on the rear lower control arm. When my new ball joint let go on my 235xi it bent my fender. Then I called for a tow truck and said its AWD I need a "Flat bed" ONLY and after waiting for an hour they show up with a wrecker. WTF and then he gets pissed off more because they never told him to bring a jack too since the car had no steering. To top it all off a month after I had it at the dealer for an wheel alignment and they said my rear arm was bent. Thinking back he placed the chain around it and tightened it down.

That was such a disaster to change, I feel your pain but do check the rear lower control arms.

Hopefully the repair goes well and you get her back better than ever.

[SureShot434]

Hopefully he didn't tighten down on the rear lower control arm. When my new ball joint let go on my 235xi it bent my fender. Then I called for a tow truck and said its AWD I need a "Flat bed" ONLY and after waiting for an hour they show up with a wrecker. WTF and then he gets pissed off more because they never told him to bring a jack too since the car had no steering. To top it all off a month after I had it at the dealer for an wheel alignment and they said my rear arm was bent. Thinking back he placed the chain around it and tightened it down.

That was such a disaster to change, I feel your pain but do check the rear lower control arms.

Hopefully the repair goes well and you get her back better than ever.

I don't know if he did or not. I got the diagnosis from Tomkinson BMW today. The clutch assembly needs to be replaced. They quoted me a little of $1,300 for parts and labor :jawdrop I called around to some indy shops and the lowest price I have found is $575 for labor and I provide the parts, which I have found for around $210 dollars. I do not have the experience with clutch's, time, or space to replace it myself. I would like to know how they can be sure it is the clutch, without taking it apart?

[Whitexi]

Oh wow! My cousins friend payed that I think for a clutch in his Z8 from BMW and that has the M5 drive train!!

I would definitely go to an indy but to be honest there really won't be a way to know for sure until its torn apart. It does sound like it tho.

[SureShot434]

Hopefully he didn't tighten down on the rear lower control arm. When my new ball joint let go on my 235xi it bent my fender. Then I called for a tow truck and said its AWD I need a "Flat bed" ONLY and after waiting for an hour they show up with a wrecker. WTF and then he gets pissed off more because they never told him to bring a jack too since the car had no steering. To top it all off a month after I had it at the dealer for an wheel alignment and they said my rear arm was bent. Thinking back he placed the chain around it and tightened it down.

That was such a disaster to change, I feel your pain but do check the rear lower control arms.

Hopefully the repair goes well and you get her back better than ever.


Oh wow! My cousins friend payed that I think for a clutch in his Z8 from BMW and that has the M5 drive train!!

I would definitely go to an indy but to be honest there really won't be a way to know for sure until its torn apart. It does sound like it tho.

Ya I'm def going to an indy shop. Just purchased a Clutch Kit from partsgeek.com for 161.25 with no tax and free shipping. I really wish I could have gone for a better more expensive one, but gotta stay realatively cheap right now. I bought a Clutch Kit made by LUK.

[SureShot434]

Clutch Kit arrived last night...shipping took a week -.- but hey shipping was free.

It's being towed as we speak from BMW to a local shop. They said they may have it done by tonight, but most likely it will be done tomorrow. Hopefully nothing else is damaged when they open it up.

[Ryans323i]

Wishing you the best Wil.

[SureShot434]

Wishing you the best Wil.

Thank you :)

[SureShot434]

Well they got the new clutch installed with very little problems....untillllllll

The new pressure plate is bad :(

The little prongs don't all move, thus the clutch does not release. Now I need to figure out how to get the clutch manufacturer to pay for the labor of installation of a bad clutch and get me a new one or my money back. I would prefer my money back. Grrrrrrr

/end rant


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[wsmeyer]

Well they got the new clutch installed with very little problems....untillllllll

The new pressure plate is bad :(

The little prongs don't all move, thus the clutch does not release. Now I need to figure out how to get the clutch manufacturer to pay for the labor of installation of a bad clutch and get me a new one or my money back. I would prefer my money back. Grrrrrrr

/end rant


Sent from my iPhone 5 using The power of Wil.....


This sounds VERY fishy. All those fingers are attached together and make up the diaphragm spring. Assuming the correct throwout bearing was installed, it would push on all of them at the same time. Unless of course, the fork was bent / damaged and wasn't holding the throwout bearing in the correct position.

I think you have the same problem but different symptom.

[SureShot434]

I just don't know what to do. The guy who did it is my gf's brother in law. He owns the shop. I'm already in the hole 550 in labor. This is turning into a headache. Maybe it's not aligned right???


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[wsmeyer]

I just don't know what to do. The guy who did it is my gf's brother in law. He owns the shop. I'm already in the hole 550 in labor. This is turning into a headache. Maybe it's not aligned right???

Well, you're girlfriends brother in law has actually seen it and I haven't so take it for what it's worth. It's possible that the way he's describing it just isn't clicking in my head. I found a couple of pics online so you could see how the whole thing works.


This is a drawing of the assembly:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/s/f/14.png

The input shaft of the transmission goes through the center of all of those parts and sits into a bearing in the back of the crankshaft. The throwout bearing slides over the input shaft so it cannot move side-to-side, and the two "ears" on the sides of the throwout bearing(3) ride inside those notches on the fork(5) to keep it from spinning and to keep the fork aligned.


Here's another one I found of a BMW assembly:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Clutch_Replace/pic65.jpg

In that you can see the front surface of the throwout bearing that contacts the "fingers" on the pressure plate.

What I can't comprehend is how one of these parts is so far out of wack that the clutch doesn't work, yet isn't broken in a way that is completely obvious just by looking at it.

[cyberkaa]

It's such a strange coincidence that the new PP has the exact problem I described to you earlier in that thread.
Methinks something is not quite right.

Is the shop familiar with BMW SACs and how to install them so as not to damage the SAC mechanism? The PP sometime comes with a warning, but not always.

[cyberkaa]

What I can't comprehend is how one of these parts is so far out of wack that the clutch doesn't work, yet isn't broken in a way that is completely obvious just by looking at it.

Speaking from experience, a malfunctioning pressure plate can look just like a good one.

[SureShot434]

Turns out the Flywheel is also bad. It moves freely a d it's not suppose to. The springs are broken. I need a new clutch kit with flywheel. I found one on BavAuto for 878 plus shipping. Anywhere any cheaper?!?! Help!!!!!


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[johnrando]

$878, ouch!

[wsmeyer]

It's such a strange coincidence that the new PP has the exact problem I described to you earlier in that thread.
Methinks something is not quite right.

Is the shop familiar with BMW SACs and how to install them so as not to damage the SAC mechanism? The PP sometime comes with a warning, but not always.

+1

I found this blog entry on the self adjusting mechanism:

"The self adjusting clutches require a unique installation procedure. If the proper procedure is not followed, during installation, the clutch assembly will not operate properly. This typically results in a clutch that will not release once everything is reassembled."

http://blog.bavauto.com/11334/bmw-self-adjusting-clutch-sac-diy-how-to-replace/

[cyberkaa]

+1

I found this blog entry on the self adjusting mechanism:

"The self adjusting clutches require a unique installation procedure. If the proper procedure is not followed, during installation, the clutch assembly will not operate properly. This typically results in a clutch that will not release once everything is reassembled."

http://blog.bavauto.com/11334/bmw-self-adjusting-clutch-sac-diy-how-to-replace/

Right on.

One clarification on that blog entry: the PP is not rendered useless permanently unless you really slam the pedal down on it in that incorrectly installed state. The PP can be reset to the new position by removing it, depressing the fingers (I use a 2- or 3-jaw puller on a metal disc), and turning the plastic SAC insert until it reaches the "new" position. Then reinstall and remove the puller. This is the factory procedure. In fact, if the PP is removed for service (e.g. rear main seal work), the current position of the SAC mechanism has to be marked before removing the PP and reset when reinstalling it.

[SureShot434]

I found this clutch kit and a buddy of mine has used them before and says they are pretty good. Any input?

https://www.clutchstar.com/product/f1-racing-stage-2-clutch-kit-chromoly-flywheel-2001-bmw-325i-2-5l-l6

[SureShot434]

Just bought a new Flex Disc Guibo and 6 Lock nuts from TunerMotorsports for 74.65 and my mechanic will install for free since he already has the tranny out. Waiting on the company with the clutch to call me with an express shipping price, and the clutch and flywheel will be ordered and on the way. Hopefully Sheila will be back on the road soon! I will upload some pics from my phone.

[SureShot434]

Clutch grenaded!!!

7827


Didn't realize of bad the camber is in the front. Needs an alignment bad!!!!
7828


Said read seal looks really good. Starting to have a little oil seeping out of the top of the pan, but it's ok right now.
7829

Just chillin without a tranny or drive shaft
7830


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[BimmerWill]

I found this clutch kit and a buddy of mine has used them before and says they are pretty good. Any input?

https://www.clutchstar.com/product/f1-racing-stage-2-clutch-kit-chromoly-flywheel-2001-bmw-325i-2-5l-l6

The only issue I see with this flywheel is that its not dual mass so its my understanding you may have some clutch chatter when its not engaged. Some people don't mind but others do. Just wanted to make you aware.

Someone correct me if im wrong this is just off the top of my head.

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[johnrando]

Glad it's getting fixed. BTW, inner tire wear typical on our cars.

[SureShot434]

Glad it's getting fixed. BTW, inner tire wear typical on our cars.

I understand that, but is it typicall for it to be that bad? The tires are a year old, but they have been rotated and balanced.

[SureShot434]

Found the clutch on eBay for a hundred bucks less :)


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[johnrando]

Not sure, mine was. That's when I found that out. That seem like a short time tho.

[BimmerWill]

I understand that, but is it typicall for it to be that bad? The tires are a year old, but they have been rotated and balanced.

How worn are your rtabs? Mine were tuckered out and think it contributed to some undue wear on the inside tread. What is your alignment set at in the rear? The toe could be off slightly.

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[Ryans323i]

Glad to see things are getting fixed. I hate that there's been unexpected delays/damages, but when this is over the 325 should feel brand new!

Fwiw, I don't have any inner tire wear or uneven tire wear.

[SureShot434]

Glad to see things are getting fixed. I hate that there's been unexpected delays/damages, but when this is over the 325 should feel brand new!

Fwiw, I don't have any inner tire wear or uneven tire wear.

I know lol I can't wait to have Sheila back! :)

THe new clutch is a Carbon Kevlar composite, and my mechanic was like "you know about those with Kevlar right? They have no slippage, its hard to start moving with those clutches." :facepalm

New Clutch kit and Flywheel should be here on Tuesday. Hopefully I will be driving her home on my day off on Wednesday :)

[SureShot434]

How worn are your rtabs? Mine were tuckered out and think it contributed to some undue wear on the inside tread. What is your alignment set at in the rear? The toe could be off slightly.

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That picture was of the front tires....the rear tires are fine. :shifty

[Whitexi]

Glad to see things are getting better now, I would honestly replace the rear main while all that's out if you plan to keep the car. Mine was leaking really bad around 212,000 but I had an automatic so I wasn't so worried.

Car will be back on the road before you know it!

[SureShot434]

Finally got the call that she is all fixed up!! :) time to go pick her up!! Details to follow.


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[SureShot434]

Just got back with the car.

The Good:

Oh man does it shift smooth and the rev matching is much easier. It's taking a little getting use to because there is very little slip.

The Bad:

It makes a clunk noise going into first gear kind of almost a grinding noise. The pedal pushes in with very little pressure, and towards the end gets really hard to push in. It doesn't feel anything like before. I don't know if this is because of the clutch or if it may not have been bleed right?? Any thoughts?


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[brettbimmer]

Wil, from what you said about very little pressure at the beginning of the pedal travel, I would suspect that there may still be some air in the line.