Track rubber

[derbo]

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7931/screenshot20130324at332.png

RE11A is coming out and the ZII just recently entered the scene.

They are so close in price! which to chose?!?! :scratchinghead

[Hermes]

I have the Z101's on the 02, nothing special. The Potenza's could be nice

[derbo]

I have the Z101's on the 02, nothing special. The Potenza's could be nice


Z101?? I don't think they compare in the same category as these tires

[Dave_B]

I've only heard wonderful things about the RE-11's

[derbo]

I've only heard wonderful things about the RE-11's

I've used RE11s and love them. Supposedly the new RE11a is going to be the sucessor to them.

ZII already have incredible raves from many of my friends who track. The price point is neglible, so its interesting to see if the 11A or a ZII will be the better tire for the BMW.

[M0nk3y]

If you want a stupid fast tire for dry, look into BFG Rivals.


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[Hermes]

Z101?? I don't think they compare in the same category as these tires

just saying I'm not impressed by Direzza's in any form, they are just a cheap decent street tire

[az3579]

I currently have the Bridgestone Potenza RE11's and have to admit that it's a damn good tire. I use these in autox. So far I have 2 seasons on them and still performing close to new.


just saying I'm not impressed by Direzza's in any form, they are just a cheap decent street tire

Star Specs are far from cheap...

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[M0nk3y]

just saying I'm not impressed by Direzza's in any form, they are just a cheap decent street tire

Perhaps you should look at the Match Tour results for ST and RT classes and let me know what tire is always on top

http://sololive.scca.com/


BFG Rival, Hankook, and Dunlop - These are THE tires to get now.

(Note: You'll see Toyo too but those are for the R1Rs on light cars)

[derbo]

just saying I'm not impressed by Direzza's in any form, they are just a cheap decent street tire

I think you are misunderstanding what a star spec Dunlop is... It is nothing like the z101.


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[Mike V]

I think you are misunderstanding what a star spec Dunlop is... It is nothing like the z101.


^Agreed. We run the direzza Z1 star specs on an M Coupe for autocross and they are pretty damn good.

The term Direzza covers a wide range of Dunlop's tires.

[derbo]

Perhaps you should look at the Match Tour results for ST and RT classes and let me know what tire is always on top

http://sololive.scca.com/


BFG Rival, Hankook, and Dunlop - These are THE tires to get now.

(Note: You'll see Toyo too but those are for the R1Rs on light cars)



From the looks of the BFG Rivals, they look like a promising tire. I think the pricepoint of the dunlops and the RE11A are the ones to look at. :D


http://www.prima-racing.com/the-new-bridgestone-potenza-re-11a-touches-tarmac-in-north-america-for-the-first-time-ever-on-the-tunerplayground-prima-racing-time-attack-s2000-irene/

[Dave_B]

Rivals are def. the new kid on the block. I know several guys that are running them now both Auto-X and HPDE and have heard great things.

[derbo]

Rivals are def. the new kid on the block. I know several guys that are running them now both Auto-X and HPDE and have heard great things.

The pricepoint compared to the others, I can't justify them at this point. No word on how well they are in the rain?

[Vas]

Dunlops hands down. I live my first generation of star specs and the second generation is an improvement.

[LivesNearCostco]

I'm considering the same tire choices. Who has tried the RE-11 or RE-11A on track? M0nK3y tried them for AutoX and didn't like them. They and PSS are the only top summer tire I can get from Costco (other than Michelin PSC). Costco does carry some BFG tires but probably cannot get the Rivals. Or I can buy from Tire Rack.

Should I get track tires that maximize dry grip (BFG Rivals) and heat management (Hankook R-S3), or a true track tire (Conti/Hoosier takeoffs from BimmerWorld)? I could in theory use those on dry days and my street tires (PSS) on wet days. Or get the RE-11A which are good in the wet and okay in the dry?

[Torxuvin]

Disappointing. Don't come in my sizes... In fact the only extreme summer that came up were the Kumho Ecsta XS. For only 50 bucks less than PSS...

[LivesNearCostco]

Cam, which size or sizes do you need?

[Torxuvin]

Running 245/40/18 front and 285/35/19 rear right now. Could go wider though. Seen 275 front and 305 rears without any body mods before. I am not sure that I have the right offset for it.

Got sideways in rush hour traffic in downtown Atl yesterday. :facepalm I'll probably need new rubber in the next few months. Of course it could just be the awful runflats...

[LivesNearCostco]

In 245/40/18 you have all the top Extreme Summer tires available. In 285/35/19 you can get a few good summer tires including Pirelli PZero and MIchelin PSS. And it says the Bridgestone RE-11 is coming soon in that size. I bet if you changed rear wheels to an equivalent 18" rim you would have a broader selection.

[derbo]

I'm considering the same tire choices. Who has tried the RE-11 or RE-11A on track? M0nK3y tried them for AutoX and didn't like them. They and PSS are the only top summer tire I can get from Costco (other than Michelin PSC). Costco does carry some BFG tires but probably cannot get the Rivals. Or I can buy from Tire Rack.

Should I get track tires that maximize dry grip (BFG Rivals) and heat management (Hankook R-S3), or a true track tire (Conti/Hoosier takeoffs from BimmerWorld)? I could in theory use those on dry days and my street tires (PSS) on wet days. Or get the RE-11A which are good in the wet and okay in the dry?

I think ZII would be the best one to have, IMO. A few of my track buddies tried out the RE11A when they werent in the states yet and they loved them.


http://vimeo.com/49813931


However, they are an S2k and alot lighter. I loved my RE11 and they were great and predictable on the track, however I havent tried the star spec II and I love to try them.

[M0nk3y]

Will offer my opinions when I get home

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[M0nk3y]

Okay.

So, here are my opinions.

Hankook RS3s - I have these tires so I know them the best. They are a tire that love the heat. When up the temp they are an awesome, and handle the heat really well. The tire hasn't heat cycled out, and I'm well past the wear bars. I've put 2 years on the tires, and dismounted the tires and flipped to the other wheel for even wear.

Grip - The sidewall on these tires are soft, perhaps the softest tire of the bunch. The initial response is a bit lacking, so to speak. They aren't the most responsive tire on the market, and need to learn that. This is mostly because of the sidewall. The tires love low pressures. I run 30 front/27 rear autocrossing. 34 front/32 rear track. If you exceed max grip you had to back the tire down alot in order to regain grip.

Wet - These tires are not good in the wet. Their tread pattern is not ideal, and the tire cannot get to temp for wet. All my wet days (including track) have been throwaway days

Cold - Tires cannot get to temp, and therefore their grip is none. It is an on/off switch.

Dunlop ZII - I haven't driven on the ZIIs, but the ZIs. They are a really nice tire that like moderate temperatures. Expect to see overheating tires when you're above 85F. When on ZIs we had to spray the tires with cold water to cool them down. However in the cold, operating at moderate temperatures is perfect. The tires were amazing in the wet, and didn't have an on/off switch like the RS3s in cold. I've read (but not experienced) on the ZIs that it wasn't uncommon to run half the tread down and heat cycle the tire out. The problem I have with ZIIs is their tread pattern closely resembles RS3s, which means poor rain channeling. There have been people that have told me that the tires do hydroplane

BFG Rivals - Never driven on the tires, but taken from words of fellow drivers. The tire is dependent on surface. For example, it isn't the best performing tire on asphalt, but on concrete they are stupid fast. The tire really likes low pressures. Friends on FRS were running low 20 PSI for hot conditions. It seems that the lower you go, the better they grip. In the wet, the tire performed relatively well. Given that the tire tread doesn't look good for rain...this was promising. The best trait is that the tires can exceed grip, and you don't need to back off the tire to regain it back. Simply releasing the gas very quickly and you have all your grip back. Unlike the RS3s and RE-11a, where when you exceed grip of the tire and need to back off the tire...these don't need to happen....if that makes sense.

Bridgestone RE-11a: I drove these on a NA Miata. The tire overheats way too easily, more so than the Dunlops. As well, they do not communicate well, and cannot hold grip in sweepers. The tires is amazing on initial grip, but give up very early and have to back off the car alot to regain anything. It almost comes to the point where you yank the wheel, straighten out...again and again....



My thinking is that on any track, with sealed surfaces, a wet track day is never fun....on any tire. I'd rather take my chances and get a good tire for heat and just say screw it for the rain...

[LivesNearCostco]

Hey guys thanks so much for the detailed opinions! Now thinking I should have gotten the RE-11A for my street tires (instead of Pilot Super Sport) and then BFG Rivals or maybe the Conti/Hoosier takeoffs for my track tires. Using those Contis would blow me out of my current autoX class but since I'm not highly competitive in any class and not competing for points/tropies, it would let me run faster on dry days and at the track.

[M0nk3y]

Hey guys thanks so much for the detailed opinions! Now thinking I should have gotten the RE-11A for my street tires (instead of Pilot Super Sport) and then BFG Rivals or maybe the Conti/Hoosier takeoffs for my track tires. Using those Contis would blow me out of my current autoX class but since I'm not highly competitive in any class and not competing for points/tropies, it would let me run faster on dry days and at the track.

Look at Hankook Z214 R-Comps. A great compromise to Hoosier without a huge spend in the wallet

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[LivesNearCostco]

I have heard good things about them but largely ignored R-comps until now. Everyone was "learn on street tires" etc. Which has been the right advice so far, but maybe time to go to R-comps since I have a 2nd set of wheels and am not seriously in any class restricted to street tires. The other thing is I've discovered my track tires last 14-18 months, so I have to live with whatever decision for quite a while. Or maybe I need another year on sticky summer.

When I see BMWs on R-comps they seem to be mostly on Ventus Z214, Toyo R-888, Nitto NT-01, BFG g-Force R1, or Kumho Ecsta V710. My interest in the Conti take-offs (made by Hoosier) are that BimmerWorld is selling a set of 4 used tires for $300 or $400, + shipping.

[M0nk3y]

Just random question, but what class are you in autocross....STX?

If you're doing SCCA, and in STX you should be really competitive.

[LivesNearCostco]

I only AutoX with BMW CCA, formerly Los Angeles and San Diego and now Golden Gate. In LA/SD I'm in "6-cylinder non-turbo Modified" and in GGC I'm "AA" with room to do more points mods. In both cases, R-comp tires would bump me up at least one class, but picking the stickiest street summer tires around would not change my points or classing.

No idea what class I'd be in if I went SCCA (except I can't be D-stock any more). If I ever do a PCA event, I will be in the class "Non-Porsche."

In whatever class, my driving ability is the limiter... it is okay but not great.

[M0nk3y]

I only AutoX with BMW CCA, formerly Los Angeles and San Diego and now Golden Gate. In LA/SD I'm in "6-cylinder non-turbo Modified" and in GGC I'm "AA" with room to do more points mods. In both cases, R-comp tires would bump me up at least one class, but picking the stickiest street summer tires around would not change my points or classing.

No idea what class I'd be in if I went SCCA (except I can't be D-stock any more). If I ever do a PCA event, I will be in the class "Non-Porsche."

In whatever class, my driving ability is the limiter... it is okay but not great.

Just IMO, ditch the BMW events (or limit them) and get on board with SCCA events.

Typically, in my experiences, BMW and PCA event courses suck. SCCA at least there is a whole book on guidelines for proper course design, and where ever you go you'll see similar elements that flow together. I've saw San Diego BMW and their courses are just long sweepers...which IMO is awful.

At least with SCCA, there are PAX involved with the classes, so overall position is determined off of that, and it gets really competitive. Typically you'll see 10 or more positions within 1 second of each other...

Since it sounds like you're modified, you'll be in STX. That means you go against FRS/BRZ, RX-8, E36 Non-Ms, E46 Non-Ms...etc. It is a street tire class, and one of the most popular among SCCA

Just my opinions and experiences.

[LivesNearCostco]

I like big sweepers! The BMW CCA San Diego chapter always runs at Qualcomm Stadium and when they use the larger West Lot, it's long and sloped so there is always at least one big sweeper (sometimes 2), a tight turn in the far corner, some off-camber turns and driving through a drainage dip. The course must negotiate around light poles and dumpsters. The GGC chapter almost always runs at Marina Airport which is not as big but it's flat with no poles or dumpsters, so they can run the course any which way without the rectangle.

Here are some CCA GGC course layouts:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7298/9702692104_0e90f2ec3e_o.png
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7323/9453956188_feabc7d858_o.png
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3757/9249446584_264299e8f4_o.png

But yes I might try SCCA for a different type of competition. My problem is I'm of two minds on many things: track and AutoX; Dry and wet days; Hot and cold days; want to improve skills and car; want suspension to be stiff and comfortable; etc.

[derbo]

Jon, you should check the buttonwillow thread I made for black friday :)