Wheel / Tire / spacer choices for Autocross season

[jeff57ax]

Autocross starts in April and to get prepped, I will make wheel/tire/spacer changes from stock.

Looking for suggestions, feedback from autocrossers/racers who liked/disliked their choices.

I want to go with the same size wheels and tires - probably 17X9. I have used Bridgestone RE-11s in the past, and liked them - but open to comments

What wheel size do you like?
What tire size do you like?
What wheel spacers, if any do you like with your set-up

Thanks for the feedback

[LivesNearCostco]

I am no AutoX expert but I know how to ask annoying questions! What class are you competing in? Will wheel/tire/spacer selection affect your classing? What is your budget? Your spring, swaybar, and front camber setup might affect tire choice a little. Are you willing to roll or stretch your fenders?

If wheel/tire money is no object I propose two sets of the lightest 18x9" forged wheels you can find with 255mm width tires, one optimized for dry grip and the 2nd set for rain. Spacers will depend on offset. If you rolled your fenders then 265mm may be possible. The Vorshlag folks did a crazy build on an E46 330 (for DSP or STX?) where they grafted M3 fenders onto a normal 330 to fit 10" wheels with 265 or 275mm tires.

I currently use D-force 17x8.5" and would like to get Apex Arc8 17x9" rims--18" means less sidewall roll and better BBK clearance but 17" means cheaper tires. But right now don't have storage space or budget to accommodate two dedicated sets of wheels.

[M0nk3y]

What class are you looking to be in when everything is said and done?

You can run DS (which requires R-Comps), RTR (which shadows stock rules), or STX.

If you want light wheels, go APEX ARC-8s. They will be the best option to shed weight. http://www.apexraceparts.com/ARC-8-17x9-Wheel_p_17.html


As of right now, it's basically between the Z2s, the Rivals, and RS3s. There have been mixed things about the Rivials, since their "testing" with fellow autocrossers has essentially been wine and dined into a positive opinion. You can't make assumptions til nationals roll around and they are tested on concrete.

[jeff57ax]

So I am not trying to stay in, or out of a particular class. I ran my 325i stock for a few seasons, even winning our local DS Class in street tire one season. My goal is just to do something different, stay competitive, but I have no need to go national. I know this sounds nuts, but I might just do the things I want to my car, then let the class fall where it does. And yes, I realize that is bass ackwards.

I do appreciate the feedback so far, looking for continued feedback, thanks

[M0nk3y]

So I am not trying to stay in, or out of a particular class. I ran my 325i stock for a few seasons, even winning our local DS Class in street tire one season. My goal is just to do something different, stay competitive, but I have no need to go national. I know this sounds nuts, but I might just do the things I want to my car, then let the class fall where it does. And yes, I realize that is bass ackwards.

I do appreciate the feedback so far, looking for continued feedback, thanks

Well, with that being said...do you want to go wider wheels? Square Set-up? etc.


As far as tires, I run the RS3s and they really require alot of heat to maintain optimal grip. As well, they have a fairly large slip angle to maximize grip, so there are alot of instances where the rear end starts to step out because of the slip angle it requires:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/487869_3756819407262_981963936_n.jpg

The RS3s also hate rain, if it's a rainy day do not expect to perform well.


The Z2s have a stiffer sidewall and do not require as much slip angle to get maximum grip. It also does not require as much heat, but can be overcooked fairly easy on a 85*F+ day. Theses are new tires, so data may vary but they are faster around the course than the Z1s. Their tread pattern will be interesting, because they don't look like they would be as good as they were before in rain.


These are my tires with ~10 Autox Days and 1 Track Day. Ignore the OPR. Typical outside shoulder wear, with flipping the tires I should be close to 2 years of use before replacing

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g135/1nFeCt1oN/2012-08-12_11-18-43_871.jpg

[Vas]

I loved the original star specs.

[bcleaver]

I'd stick with a 17" x9" rim (square setup). Tires are cheaper, and the combo of tires/wheels will likely be lighter. Additionally, you can run in an RTR class, STX or stock class legally.

Both the Apex ARC-8s and the D-force wheels are good options (I have used both). They both come in a reasonable offset that will allow you to get a wider tire under there (need something +40 and the bigger the better). The D-force are a little lighter than the Apex, but they are much less sturdy and make a much less ideal DD wheel if you live around bad roads. I'd give them a single hard curb hit on the track or a big pothole to put them out of shape. The offest on those is also not as large as the apex, which if you want to go really wide, helps.

For tires I would go with a 255 which will fit either of the above rims with little problem. You can go 265 but that will require you roll fenders, and will likely get rubbing on the d-force rims with passengers in the back even after a roll. I'd say the most two popular autox specifc tires used on these cars are the dunlop direzza or the Hankook RS-3s. There are some new tires out this year, so that may change things, but this is as it was 4 months ago. I personally prefer the Dunlops. They have a very predictable feel on the edge, are great when cold and in the rain. The RS-3s can be fast but the high slip angle and very narrow 'edge' makes them harder for me to drive. The other advantage of the dunlop is you can get it in a 265 17.

Spacers: just get the smallest ones you can to avoid rubbing on the strut.

Hope this helps.

[M0nk3y]

I'd stick with a 17" x9" rim (square setup). Tires are cheaper, and the combo of tires/wheels will likely be lighter. Additionally, you can run in an RTR class, STX or stock class legally.

Both the Apex ARC-8s and the D-force wheels are good options (I have used both). They both come in a reasonable offset that will allow you to get a wider tire under there (need something +40 and the bigger the better). The D-force are a little lighter than the Apex, but they are much less sturdy and make a much less ideal DD wheel if you live around bad roads. I'd give them a single hard curb hit on the track or a big pothole to put them out of shape. The offest on those is also not as large as the apex, which if you want to go really wide, helps.

For tires I would go with a 255 which will fit either of the above rims with little problem. You can go 265 but that will require you roll fenders, and will likely get rubbing on the d-force rims with passengers in the back even after a roll. I'd say the most two popular autox specifc tires used on these cars are the dunlop direzza or the Hankook RS-3s. There are some new tires out this year, so that may change things, but this is as it was 4 months ago. I personally prefer the Dunlops. They have a very predictable feel on the edge, are great when cold and in the rain. The RS-3s can be fast but the high slip angle and very narrow 'edge' makes them harder for me to drive. The other advantage of the dunlop is you can get it in a 265 17.

Spacers: just get the smallest ones you can to avoid rubbing on the strut.

Hope this helps.

If he goes 17x9 he'll be bumped into STX. That's not OEM size.

As well, 17" wheel size you're limited to 255 tires. There are no 265 tire for 17"

[jeff57ax]

Thanks. I figured that I would end up in STX: Rougue Engineering exhaust, Rouge Engineering front strut brace, AFE CAI, and then the different wheels and tire sizes (not stock).

This is a big help, I appreciate the feedback and suggestions!

[Mike V]

Hi Jeff,

Remove strut brace, swap stock filter back in, install Star Specs on stock wheels (or lighter wheels that same dimensions as stock, but can vary .25" in offset), install Koni singles, and run RTR with a DS index. That's the easiest/cheapest way to be competitive with that car in KC region. I say this because you mentioned wanting to stay somewhat competitive. With two well-driven (and well-prepped) E30 M3s and E36 328is in KC region, you will get destroyed in STX without spending thousands.

The RTx classes will be new for KC region this year. At the national level, RTR is typically a mish-mash class for stock-prepped rwd cars on street tires. Locally, I'm pretty sure they intend to allow all rwd classes in RTR. So if you wanted to keep your filter and other mods, you could still run RTR but with a DSP index. But again, without spending thousands for xSP prep, you're not going to hang too well with the stock-prepped cars in the class since the placement is based on PAX index.

I will be co-driving the M Coupe again this year in RTR. It does quite well on Star Specs and Konis. BFG is coming out with a new tire called the Rival and I hear it's very good.

[jeff57ax]

Mike:

Understood - Chris and Doug both would kill me in STX. Certainly know that for KC, and for this STX class, that I have the wrong car and set up, so...................at least my car SOUNDS great, and with new wheels and tires, would look great. I know this sounds defeatest, but hell, like I said, I won my class just a few years ago, so have that - just want to 1) have fun, then 2) be somewhat competitive. I missed all last season with BS work schedule taking me on flights on most event weekends, then I just wrote the season off. Won't happen this year.

[Mike V]

It will be nice to see you out there again. I autoxed more last year than the prior 3 years combined. I had a hard time turning down offers to co-drive the M Coupe!

Bob B. is co-driving Doug's car this year, so that's another quick driver in STX in a well-prepped car. Not sure if Chris will have a co-driver, or if he even comes out much this year. They are talking about buying a lakehouse so if that happens, I don't think we'll see him much. Chuck Wilson is also quick in his newly acquired E30 M3.

[jeff57ax]

OK, Bob in Doug's car = bad news for me in STX. I though Chuck raced his family car last year - a VW, or a Chevy of some kind? because of problems and/or repairs he needed on his M3?? FYI, I almost bought Chuck's 325is.

I think I want to continue with RE-11s, as I have liked them in the past. Apex recommended 245/40/R17s tire size to be used with the RE-11s. If anyone is still reading this - weigh in on this tire size with the 17X9 wheels please

[M0nk3y]

If you can fit 255s go for it.

My buddy has apex 17x9 on his e36 m and run 255 z1s and they are fine. You are not squeezing too much tire at all.

I have 265 on a 9" wheel


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[M0nk3y]

245 might be more of a stretch, increasing sidewall stiffness and increasing response

Do you need to get power down or increase response? That is what you need to answer


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[bcleaver]

If he goes 17x9 he'll be bumped into STX. That's not OEM size.

As well, 17" wheel size you're limited to 255 tires. There are no 265 tire for 17"

Ah yes, there was no 9" stock rim, for some reason I was thinking there was. Also looks like they don't make the star spec in a 17" 265 anymore, which sucks, although it may not be one of the faster tires this year anyway. I was actually about to pull the trigger on some at the end of last year but didn't want to store them over the winter...woops.

To get back to the OP, RTR would be your cheapest competitive angle, but mods for stx, even if less competitive make the car so much more fun. So if that's your number one goal looks like a done deal.

[Mike V]

OK, Bob in Doug's car = bad news for me in STX. I though Chuck raced his family car last year - a VW, or a Chevy of some kind? because of problems and/or repairs he needed on his M3?? FYI, I almost bought Chuck's 325is.

I think I want to continue with RE-11s, as I have liked them in the past. Apex recommended 245/40/R17s tire size to be used with the RE-11s. If anyone is still reading this - weigh in on this tire size with the 17X9 wheels please

I'm not sure if Chuck is going to continue to run his Cobalt SS and switch to the E30 M3 this year. A couple weeks ago, I saw him down here in the sticks going the other way on Hwy 50. It was an odd site to see an E30 M3 in these parts so naturally I had to ask what he was up to haha. He was on his way to Metric Mechanic to get something fixed that they had screwed up while doing some engine work. Hopefully he has the car sorted enough to drive it at the autoxes. The turbo version of the Cobalt SS is impressive, but I think he'd have more fun running STX with the E30.

I have 245s on my 9s on my E36 M3 sedan it felt great the one time I autoxed it. There is not much stretch, but 255s would be ideal. I started out with 255s on the car but I was having rubbing issues, so I swapped those tires to the RX-7 and acquired 245s for the M3. Those same 255s worked great on the ZHP when I still had it.

[M0nk3y]

FWD turbo in a ST class is no where to play, IMO


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[Mike V]

FWD turbo in a ST class is no where to play, IMO


He runs his Cobalt in DS and the E30 M3 in STX.