Clutch Replacement Time

[VaTechZHP]

Well its that time to replace the clutch on the ZHP and have been looking around at a couple of kits trying to get some pricing. Seems to range from high 200s, to low 500s depending on what all pieces I am getting include.d

From talking with my mechanic today, he said to get a new flywheel while I'm at it.

I wasn't sure if I wanted to do that (car has 130k on it) since the flywheel is almost $500 for a stock dual mass flywheel.

Since the car sees 0 track/autox and MAYBE occasional spirited driving, which is what I use my M3 to handle, I'm not really interested in upgrading to anything, but the price differences didn't seem to much.

Anyone have any suggestions on kits to buy or flywheel opinions.

It was also suggested from my mechanics experience to leave the rear main seal alone as they tend to stay together quite well and mine has no leaking that I can tell. He also said that I run the risk of tearing the oil pan gasket during replacement which I don't want to have to pay for/deal with either.

I guess I'm trying to find the most economical way to get my clutch placed with quality parts that should hold together for the foreseeable future.

Thanks!

[telijah]

Wow, I checked rockauto.com as that is where I got my clutch kit for under 300, and it was an OEM kit. I do not know the year of your car, so I just looked up the SACHs kit for a 2005 and it is over $500!

So, I cannot provide much help there. However, I disagree with your mechanic on the rear main seal. You may as well go ahead and do it. It's a cheap part and takes minutes to replace while the transmission is already off. If you do not do it now, you're gonna spend hundreds more to replace this relatively cheap part due to the labor of removing the trans again.

As for the flywheel, it's hard to tell if you need one until it is off. I replaced my clutch at about 110k miles and my flywheel was in very good shape.

[VaTechZHP]

Thats what I'm thinking. I dont think the car has lead a rough life and from what I can tell the past owners have been very good at keeping the car up to snuff. I almost wouldn't want to pull the flywheel off the car just to do the main seal, but its just one of those, while you're in there things that really makes me want to just do everything and not worry about it.

I'm probably looking at close to $2000 to get everything done including labor. I guess I could just stop being lazy and spend a weekend under the car replacing it myself which I've done on my e36s and e28s...

[brettbimmer]

Here's my two cents on dual mass flywheel replacement - while your mechanic is doing the right thing by trying to save you labor should get the clutch shudder/grabbing in the future with the newer clutch, from what I have been told, (and experienced myself), is that the dual mass flywheels can usually be re-used with the first clutch replacement. I am approaching 250,000 miles on an E36, and when I replace the clutch for the second time, I know that I have to replace the dual mass flywheel, to the tune of about $1,000 for the part alone. The issue arises in that they cannot resurface the flywheel, so it is only a few extra bolts to remove and replace while the transmission and clutch are already out of the car. The bad part is that they are very expensive. Symptoms that I am having now are the shudder during the engagement of the clutch, and my long-time independent mechanic said that it is due to the flywheel. My clutch was replaced in this vehicle about the same mileage as you the first time,right around 130,000 miles. Are you planning to keep the ZHP for many, many more miles?

Everything that I have read would say to stick with the OEM stock clutch and components for anything but the most severe driving/racing. I have used them in an E30 & E36 without issue, and I have used all for the occasional high performance driver education at the track without any issue. Some of the performance clutch components that I have heard about have caused their owners more trouble then they are worth, unless the car is a dedicated race or track car.

If I was in your position, I would leave the flywheel in place (unless I was currently getting a shudder upon takeoff from standstill), and I would go with OEM clutch supplier.

[Jorge86]

Veleo makes a single piece flywheel. I read a review in e46 fanatics. It's not as expensive as the oem dual piece.

[VaTechZHP]

Thanks for the input, very good information. I'm on the fence about keeping the car for some reason. It is actually doing everything I bought the car for, but for whatever reason, its not all that enjoyable, but that's what I get for trying to keep a car stock!

Anyway, staying on topic, I'm leaning more towards not replacing the flywheel or the rear main seal as I would think the flywheel would be in good shape, unless we get everything pulled apart and find it to be in terrible shape at which point a replacement would be required.

I really don't have any issues with the clutch at all until I'm in the higher RPM ranges in 2nd or 3rd gear, it seems to slip just a little, and I'm losing some of the grab when starting out on a hill from a light or something. Other than that, no issues to speak of.

I'll look into a clutch kit and go from there. The kit from BavAuto looks very complete and should retain the OE parts.

I also looked at the bimmerworld clutch replacements and for $1200 could get a new flywheel, clutch disk, clutch and throwout bearing, but would then have to add in all the other pieces for a complete kit, so probably somewhere around $1500/1700 to replace everything.

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

[derbo]

When I did my clutch replacement

-Clutch
-Throwout bearing/Fork pin etc
-Flywheel (its not on the picture I listed since I got it from AutoHauZ)
-Rear Main seal kit
-Shifter bushings.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4596&d=1340043099

Here is my take on the Dual-Mass Flywheel:

Just order the flywheel. If your flywheel play is still within spec, use it. Just return the flywheel where you bought it from. When I did my clutch, I was planning to just do the clutch but I ordered the flywheel in case it needed to be replaced. Turns out the flywheel had major play when we removed it. The new one had next to no play. Unfortunately, it meant I was using the new flywheel and making this clutch job double in price..

It really is hard to say if you can use the flywheel or not until you remove it.. and if you do in fact need one, I honestly would want to be prepared to minimize downtime. If downtime is not the case, I would just wait till the flywheel is removed to see if it is reusable or not.

[Vas]

I am running the clutch kit from turner motorsport. Previous owner had replaced the clutch, flywheel, slave, and trans bushings.
Link below to the clutch. No complaints from me however I am not the biggest fan of the dual mass flywheel. The car would rev soo much easier with a single mass in there.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-41-e46-330i-6-speed-0303-325xi-0903-clutch-kit.aspx

[Johal E32]

My pops had a local BMW shop change out the clutch on his 530i, and we had them change the clutch, but they re-surfaced the Dual Mass Flywheel for like $40.. They said it is okay to re-surface, it was still is in a pretty good shape @ 149k miles! Next time the clutch goes out, (presumably 300k miles), we will change out the Dual Mass flywheel :)

Just a FYI. It is OKAY to resurface a DMF flywheel and re-use it!

[VaTechZHP]

What all is involved in resurfacing? Is that something where I can take the flywheel to a machine shop and ask them to resurface the flywheel?

[Vas]

To resurface is one thing however if it has play in it, well that's a different story.

[Dave_B]

I've heard several stories on this DMF thing as well. All of my previous cars have been SMF.

That being said Iv'e heard the reuse once, resurface and always replace. I'm at 141k now and expect to be doing this fairly soon as well. Since I have a work vehicle I'm going to pull it apart before ordering anything. If things look ok, I'll reuse. If not, I'll replace.

[BimmerWill]

Not to thread jack but im experiencing this shuddering sensation that several of you have mentioned. Does this indicate a failing flywheel? Car is about to turn 200k on stock clutch and flywheel so it is more than likely due for a replacement of both. It will slip sometimes on a hard shift from first to second gear making an audible squeak.

[llll1l1ll]

Sounds like your flywheel is on the fritz. Mine shudders when I'm parking (especially when the car is still cold) and you can hear it rattling when it's engaging. Still drives okay for now and the clutch has plenty of grab. However, I will likely need to replace the flywheel when I have the clutch done.

Where is everyone getting their pricing from? I saw someone here say the DMF was about a grand?? No way! I just looked it up on Pelican and it was like $574, plus $330(?) for the clutch kit from Turner Motorsport. Brings total in parts to about $910 plus another $600 (basic guess) for labor. Sounds about right for an average clutch job.

[telijah]

I almost wouldn't want to pull the flywheel off the car just to do the main seal, but its just one of those, while you're in there things that really makes me want to just do everything and not worry about it.

I'm confused by this. You say you've done clutch jobs before, so it is nothing more than 6 more bolts (or was it 8?) to remove the flywheel and tackle the rear main. I am also confused as to how your other mechanic said there is a chance at damaging the oil pan gasket.

[brettbimmer]

Where is everyone getting their pricing from? I saw someone here say the DMF was about a grand?? No way!

That was me & I was referring to the cost for an E36 - retail is $962, but looks like there are some cheaper alternatives. Sorry for the E36/M44 vs. E46/M54 confusion!

[derbo]

I got my flywheel from AutoHauZ. Its on sale. for $539.57. Maybe use the autohauz link in the affliates to help out this site too ;) Retail for the flywheel is 1000..

[VaTechZHP]

I'm confused by this. You say you've done clutch jobs before, so it is nothing more than 6 more bolts (or was it 8?) to remove the flywheel and tackle the rear main. I am also confused as to how your other mechanic said there is a chance at damaging the oil pan gasket.

I would prefer to do the rear main while I was in there. Since I haven't seen the rear main seal before, my mechanic indicated that some kind of carrier it sits in would have to come out, that is somehow connected to the oil pan/gasket. Not 100% sure unfortunately to comment and I also haven't researched much on the subject either as my issue isn't quite too bad just yet.

I think if I were to tackle this job myself, I'd try to get everything off on my own and see what happens.

[llll1l1ll]

That was me & I was referring to the cost for an E36 - retail is $962, but looks like there are some cheaper alternatives. Sorry for the E36/M44 vs. E46/M54 confusion!

Hahaha no worries.

[MrMaico]

Here's a Luk flywheel for $480 with free shipping.....

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2004/bmw/330i/clutch/flywheel.html

I believe the OEM clutches can be either a Sachs or Luk so I don't see any reason not to save the money and buy one of these.:dunno

I have the rattle in my clutch (flywheel?) when backing uphill or trying to creep along in 1st. I first noticed it around 80,000 miles. I've read of some people having it from new. I'm at 103,000 now with no other signs of clutch issues. The noise bothers me quite a bit but I'd hate to change the clutch and flywheel only to end up with the same rattle.

[derbo]

Here's a Luk flywheel for $480 with free shipping.....

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2004/bmw/330i/clutch/flywheel.html

I believe the OEM clutches can be either a Sachs or Luk so I don't see any reason not to save the money and buy one of these.:dunno

I have the rattle in my clutch (flywheel?) when backing uphill or trying to creep along in 1st. I first noticed it around 80,000 miles. I've read of some people having it from new. I'm at 103,000 now with no other signs of clutch issues. The noise bothers me quite a bit but I'd hate to change the clutch and flywheel only to end up with the same rattle.


I'm running a LUKs flywheel. It is an OEM Supplier without the BMW stamp. :)

[MrMaico]

I'm running a LUKs flywheel. It is an OEM Supplier without the BMW stamp. :)

Great! I thought so but I wasn't certain.

[telijah]

And sometimes, it's a SACHs/LUK hybrid!
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/102101414697648222108/albums/5572976180507624385/5572977751131047282

Edit: Oops, was talking about the clutch disc. You can see the clutch material has the LUK stamp, and the center metal plate has SACHs stamped on it.

[derbo]

And sometimes, it's a SACHs/LUK hybrid!
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/102101414697648222108/albums/5572976180507624385/5572977751131047282

Edit: Oops, was talking about the clutch disc. You can see the clutch material has the LUK stamp, and the center metal plate has SACHs stamped on it.

Wow I never seen that before!


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[telijah]

It caught me by surprise, but I would not think it's unheard of. It was advertised as the OEM kit from Rock Auto.

[notes2john]

OK I think its also time for me to do the clutch/flywheel... I don't do any mechanical work on the car so it's gonna be a auto shop job. It started rattling when I push the clutch to the floor a few months ago and then went away. Now it's back and louder and I can feel the rattle in the pedal when fully pressed. I can shift fine at about a 3/4 press. Feels fine and no noise or rattle. So, 2 things... Does it hurt the clutch to shift at 3/4 press (again feels fine doing it), 2nd if I have to replace it... who has had it done at a dealership and what is the cost +/-. I don't have a personal mechanic and don't know how easy it is to do. (not me, but the shop). 3rd and I know this sounds wrong ... but since I don't feel any problems with the 3/4 press, could I make a stopper under the pedal to avoid the full press or am I gonna screw myself???

104,000 miles 04 330i ZHP

thanks

[OmairK]

OK I think its also time for me to do the clutch/flywheel... I don't do any mechanical work on the car so it's gonna be a auto shop job. It started rattling when I push the clutch to the floor a few months ago and then went away. Now it's back and louder and I can feel the rattle in the pedal when fully pressed. I can shift fine at about a 3/4 press. Feels fine and no noise or rattle. So, 2 things... Does it hurt the clutch to shift at 3/4 press (again feels fine doing it), 2nd if I have to replace it... who has had it done at a dealership and what is the cost +/-. I don't have a personal mechanic and don't know how easy it is to do. (not me, but the shop). 3rd and I know this sounds wrong ... but since I don't feel any problems with the 3/4 press, could I make a stopper under the pedal to avoid the full press or am I gonna screw myself???

104,000 miles 04 330i ZHP

thanks

I have about the same miles and I have the same problem. I've read posts and people say it's the throwout bearing and not to bother but it makes my car sound like shit. I guess when the clutch goes, I'll change everything.