Do ZHPs use standard e46 control arms?

[Dave1027]

Thinking I might have a bent right front control arm. Need to know what to order.

[danewilson77]

No. C/A's are 330 specific. You can get by with regular ones.

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[alexandre]

Part #s are 31122282121 and 31122282122 depending on side, both by Lemfoerder (this is for sedans though - double-check if coupes have a different setup). Around $190 a side. Pelican Parts, BMA Parts, and FCP Euro carry them. IIRC BMA or FCP don't have them listed - contact them for a special order.

Edit: I see this thread is an Imola party.

[az3579]

Part #s are 31122282121 and 31122282122 depending on side, both by Lemfoerder (this is for sedans though - double-check if coupes have a different setup). Around $190 a side. Pelican Parts, BMA Parts, and FCP Euro carry them. IIRC BMA or FCP don't have them listed - contact them for a special order.

Edit: I see this thread is an Imola party.

When I was looking for ZHP arms just a few months ago, they were over $300 a side. $190 sounds far too cheap. Make sure they're genuine BMW ones.


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[danewilson77]

He priced out Lemforders per his post.

[alexandre]

When I was looking for ZHP arms just a few months ago, they were over $300 a side. $190 sounds far too cheap. Make sure they're genuine BMW ones.


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Lemfoerder is the same part w/o the BMW logo. $300 per side for Genuine BMW is about right.

[az3579]

He priced out Lemforders per his post.

The genuine BMW part is made by Lemförder, hence my confusion.

EDIT: damn Tapatalk can't handle the o with umlauts over it. Stupid thing... Lemforder.




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[danewilson77]

The genuine BMW part is the only one with the ///M sticker on it, and runs right around $300/side.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/suspension_e46_nonM3_sport_control_arm_detail.jpg

Lemforder is the cheaper option at around $200/side, but doesn't carry the ///M designation.

[alexandre]

^they're the same though... w/o branding. right?

[danewilson77]

I can't confirm that the dimensions are identical. When I replaced my control arms, I bought the ZHP suspension kit which came with the ///M branded arms.

[Johal E32]

I believe they are the same.

I guess you are paying more for the BMW logo, but I think Lemforedor it the BMW supplier for control arms (at least for older BMW's they are)

[Mike V]

Looks like there is a difference between the sport and non-sport (I assume the zhp uses the sport version). $287 a side. Non-sports are $224 per side.

http://www.bmwmercedesparts.com/parts/2005/BMW/330I/index.cfm?searchText=control+arm&siteid=215771&year=2005&make=BMW&model=330I&submodel=&vehicleid=1431328

That's a BMW of Lincoln link. I usually use Tischer (getbmwparts.com) but their site is having issues since the 'upgrade'.

[alexandre]

I was planning to get the Lemfoerder version when I do my suspension refresh this spring. Will post pics/dimensions to compare... But AFAIK they're the same part w/o BMW logo.

[danewilson77]

I was planning to get the Lemfoerder version when I do my suspension refresh this spring. Will post pics/dimensions to compare... But AFAIK they're the same part w/o BMW logo.

so....you don't know.

[alexandre]

so....you don't know.

I got quotes for a full suspension refresh from Turner, BMA and FCP in December, and they all told me that Sachs-Boge struts/shocks and Lemfoerder control arms (with the proper P/N's of course) are the exact same part provided to BMW for ZSP/ZHP suspensions, but sold w/o BMW logos. Like Bosch O2 sensors, Jurid/Textar brake pads, etc.

[Vas]

Imola party ftw

[johnrando]

Yup, just delete Johal's post. Oh dang, now you have to delete mine too! :biggrin

[alexandre]

Nah, now that you guys joined in, you gotta respray your cars in paint code #405. :biggrin

[johnrando]

lol. I'll keep my 668, but thanks. :)

[az3579]

The genuine BMW part is the only one with the ///M sticker on it, and runs right around $300/side.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/suspension_e46_nonM3_sport_control_arm_detail.jpg

Lemforder is the cheaper option at around $200/side, but doesn't carry the ///M designation.

Lemförder makes the genuine BMW part. I've confirmed this from multiple sources.

Now, as far as Lemförder making another part that's the same application, well... it is possible that they do make a cheaper version that isn't exactly the same. Lots of manufacturers do this; they make a part for a car manufacturer that meets strict standards, and then turn around and make that same part for less money but to a lesser quality. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's going on here. I'm not saying that is most definitely the case with the Lemförder control arms (cheaper), but it's been done in the industry before.

The ZHP version is supposed to have more durable ball joints I believe. There is a reason they're more expensive, and I don't think it's the BMW logo.



That's just my take on the situation.

[alexandre]

Lemförder makes the genuine BMW part. I've confirmed this from multiple sources.

Now, as far as Lemförder making another part that's the same application, well... it is possible that they do make a cheaper version that isn't exactly the same. Lots of manufacturers do this; they make a part for a car manufacturer that meets strict standards, and then turn around and make that same part for less money but to a lesser quality. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's going on here. I'm not saying that is most definitely the case with the Lemförder control arms (cheaper), but it's been done in the industry before.

The ZHP version is supposed to have more durable ball joints I believe. There is a reason they're more expensive, and I don't think it's the BMW logo.



That's just my take on the situation.

Just so it's clear, the $190 Lemfoerder part is the ZHP version of the control arm with metal ball joints. Regular E46 control arm by Lemfoerder is less than $100.

As for the "low quality" theory... It's been bounced around. I'd rather take the risk of something with possibly less strict standards (keeping in mind that this is just a theory and no one at Lemfoerder has confirmed this) and save a bunch of $$$, but of course people will have different takes on this subject. It's all speculation at this point.

[danewilson77]

Agree.

[elric]

I can get the Lemfoerder ZHP controls arms (w/o ///M Branding) for $185 each locally.

[danewilson77]

I can get the Lemfoerder ZHP controls arms (w/o ///M Branding) for $185 each locally.

Das a good price.

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[Dave1027]

I'm a little confused. This is Pelican parts which shows the same arm fitting every E46. Does not mention anything ZHP specific or sport suspension specific or even 330 specific.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=31-12-6-777-852-M69&catalog_description=Control%20Arm%20Right%20Front% 20Lower%2C%20BMW%20E%34%36%20%33%20Series%20All%20 Except%20M%33%20and%20Xi%20models%20%28%31%39%39%3 9%2D%30%35%29%2C%20Each%20%20%20

Also it's $171 for a Lemfoerder CA

[alexandre]

I'm a little confused. This is Pelican parts which shows the same arm fitting every E46. Does not mention anything ZHP specific or sport suspension specific or even 330 specific.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=31-12-6-777-852-M69&catalog_description=Control%20Arm%20Right%20Front% 20Lower%2C%20BMW%20E%34%36%20%33%20Series%20All%20 Except%20M%33%20and%20Xi%20models%20%28%31%39%39%3 9%2D%30%35%29%2C%20Each%20%20%20

Also it's $171 for a Lemfoerder CA

Both standard and ZHP will "fit" on any E46, but our stock setup is the more expensive ZHP version. Plus if you're gonna replace only one, get the ZHP version - I don't think non-matching suspension components is a very good idea.

You want this one: left (http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=&make=&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&description=31122282121+&FILTER_TECH=ON&FILTER_SUPP=ON&FILTER_ACCE=ON&FILTER_CARE=ON&FILTER_STUF=ON&FILTER_PERF=ON&FILTER_MISC=ON&FILTER_GADG=ON&FILTER_TOOL=ON&FILTER_ABMW=ON&FILTER_BE21=ON&FILTER_BE30=ON&FILTER_BE36=ON&FILTER_BE46=ON&FILTER_BE12=ON&FILTER_BE28=ON&FILTER_BE34=ON&FILTER_BE39=ON&FILTER_BE7S=ON&FILTER_BEZ3=ON&FILTER_BE68=ON&FILTER_BE02=ON&FILTER_BEMI=ON&FILTER_BEX5=ON&FILTER_BMWM=ON#) or right (http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_Search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=&make=&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&command=DWsearch&REFINE=Y&FORUM_REFER=&SUPERCAT_FLAG=&make=&description=31122282122&x=0&y=0&FILTER_ABMW=ON&FILTER_BMWM=ON&FILTER_BE21=ON&FILTER_BE30=ON&FILTER_BE36=ON&FILTER_BE46=ON&FILTER_BE12=ON&FILTER_BE28=ON&FILTER_BE34=ON&FILTER_BE39=ON&FILTER_BE7S=ON&FILTER_BEZ3=ON&FILTER_BE68=ON&FILTER_BE02=ON&FILTER_BEMI=ON&FILTER_BEX5=ON&FILTER_TECH=ON&FILTER_SUPP=ON&FILTER_ACCE=ON&FILTER_CARE=ON&FILTER_STUF=ON&FILTER_PERF=ON&FILTER_MISC=ON&FILTER_GADG=ON&FILTER_TOOL=ON#).

[Dave1027]

Thanks, that clears it up. I'm curious, what's the difference between the standard and ZHP version? Does it set up more camber?

[alexandre]

Thanks, that clears it up. I'm curious, what's the difference between the standard and ZHP version? Does it set up more camber?

All I know is they're stiffer and way more durable... Someone more knowledgable might be able to better answer that question.

Also I just thought about something - would this be something that should be replaced in pairs ? Does CA performance degrade gradually, or does it just fail instantly ?

[kayger12]

AFAIK the only difference was firmer/metal ball joints.

[Nivo]

Many cars use Teflon/plastic insert ball joints for costs and noise, vibrations and harmonics. but under performance use they quickly fail when extreme forces are applied.

Believe it or not many trucks use them too from GM, Ford and Chrysler (Jeep).

Here in the images you can see why the ZHP arms are preferred. The only difference is that they are supplied with standard metal ball joints as many cars in the past have used VS Teflon/delrin.

Teflon lined
7036

All metal (requires internal lubrication)
7037

All metal + replaceable would be nice just like the Meyle HD arms. They use all metal ball joints. They might be able to be cross referenced to other manufacturers too as I doubt that Meyle made specific ball joints for a low volume car. This would open up a new window to the "buy only bmw ZHP arms" saying.

[Dave1027]

I was considering this Meyle kit http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330Ci-M54_3.0L/Suspension/Refresh_Kits/ES205226/
I don't need competition level performance. More concerned with longevity during normal street driving.

[Go Horns!]

$200 each for the real deal

http://www.oembimmerparts.com/product_p/31122282121-122ZHPOEM.htm?gclid=CIjLk6_r_7QCFemiPAodmW8AJg

[alexandre]

I was considering this Meyle kit http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330Ci-M54_3.0L/Suspension/Refresh_Kits/ES205226/
I don't need competition level performance. More concerned with longevity during normal street driving.

Not sure what other people's opinions are on this, but I'd only put the ZHP parts on the ZHP. That's what makes the car. ZHP CA's are considered extremely durable because of the metal ball joints - I'm still on my originals (date sticker on them matches my production date), and my car has 212k miles. I'm swapping them out this Spring preventatively, but they have shown no signs of failure yet. Rubber ball joints will certainly last shorter than the metal ones.

Best combo would be Lemfoerder ZHP CA's + Meyle HD bushings. Maybe $100 more than that kit but you're running ZHP parts.


$200 each for the real deal

http://www.oembimmerparts.com/product_p/31122282121-122ZHPOEM.htm?gclid=CIjLk6_r_7QCFemiPAodmW8AJg

These are still Lemfoerder though, not Genuine BMW.

[Dave1027]

Well, got down under the car to see why my camber and caster is off on the right side. Seems my right FCA has been replaced with one that is slightly different dimensions than the left. The left has an M sticker on it.

[alexandre]

Your right one is probably a standard E46 one. What brand is it ?

[Dave1027]

Your right one is probably a standard E46 one. What brand is it ?

Can't tell. It looks terrible. Like it was a junk yard pull.

[alexandre]

Can't tell. It looks terrible. Like it was a junk yard pull.

I'd replace both from Lemfoerder with new Meyle HD bushings, if you have the $$.

[danewilson77]

I'd replace both from Lemfoerder with new Meyle HD bushings, if you have the $$.

I would support this however, in that other thread we were discussing the recent decline in quality of Meyle bushings, no?

[alexandre]

I would support this however, in that other thread we were discussing the recent decline in quality of Meyle bushings, no?

I haven't seen this discussion - my car came with new bushing installed by P.O. so I haven't done research on this at all other than general suspension threads. I read in several places that Meyle HD was the preferred option in quality/$, for bushings at least. What is the consensus these days?

[kayger12]

I haven't seen this discussion - my car came with new bushing installed by P.O. so I haven't done research on this at all other than general suspension threads. I read in several places that Meyle HD was the preferred option in quality/$, for bushings at least. What is the consensus these days?

Bunch of negative feedback on Meyle sine they moved manufacturing plants.

Numerous reports of low mileage failures.

I wouldn't touch them right now.

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[az3579]

OEM is the only option to be considered here IMO.


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[danewilson77]

I haven't seen this discussion - my car came with new bushing installed by P.O. so I haven't done research on this at all other than general suspension threads. I read in several places that Meyle HD was the preferred option in quality/$, for bushings at least. What is the consensus these days?


Bunch of negative feedback on Meyle sine they moved manufacturing plants.

Numerous reports of low mileage failures.

I wouldn't touch them right now.

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This.

[echo46]

When the time comes, I'm going OEM all the way. Sick of things not fitting perfectly. I was lost now I'm found. OEM!!

[terraphantm]

Do keep in mind even lemfoerder has plants in China. I haven't heard of e46 control arms being made there, but that can change in the future. I guess I'll see where they make the m3 ones now this weekend.

Soon genuine BMW parts will be the only way to ensure quality pieces.