HP Clutch with Stock Flywheel?

[lkstaack]

I'm going to need a new clutch soon at almost 90k. I would like a pressure plate with increased clamping pressure, but keep my dual mass flywheel. The only option I have found is an aftermarket Sachs disk/plate from TC Kline for $1,000. Anyone know of additional options that don't include the need for a light weight flywheel or OEM?

My ZHP puts down about 350 HP with a stage II ESS Supercharger. The OEM clutch works well, but I'm concerned that the increased HP has shortened its life. That is why I'm researching my non-OE options. Thanks.

[danewilson77]

90k is hardly need for a new clutch. Is yours behaving badly?

[RITmusic2k]

...I'm concerned that the increased HP has shortened its life. That is why I'm researching my non-OE options. Thanks.

FYI, excessive heat buildup from extended slippage is what shortens the life of a clutch, not high horsepower itself. If it doesn't slip while fully engaged (which I assume is the case as you said that the stock unit works well), then you can expect it to live just as long as it would if you were at stock power levels.

[lkstaack]

90k is hardly need for a new clutch. Is yours behaving badly?

I'm shopping for a new clutch because my current one slips under load. I'm not a street racer or track rat; however, I like to get on it every now and then. My supercharger allows alot of torque down to the wheels.

[lkstaack]

FYI, excessive heat buildup from extended slippage is what shortens the life of a clutch, not high horsepower itself. If it doesn't slip while fully engaged (which I assume is the case as you said that the stock unit works well), then you can expect it to live just as long as it would if you were at stock power levels.

My clutch slips under load. I would imagine that a pressure plate with increased clamping pressure would prevent slippage better than OE, increasing clutch life.

[RedTRex]

Options...

http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/performance-organic-clutch-kit-for-03-05-e46-330ici-6-speed-p387.aspx

http://store.bimmerworld.com/clutchmasters-performance-clutch-kits-p1293.aspx

[nike001]

Your clutch life should most definitely not be diminishing because of 350hp...

[lkstaack]

Options...

http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/performance-organic-clutch-kit-for-03-05-e46-330ici-6-speed-p387.aspx

http://store.bimmerworld.com/clutchmasters-performance-clutch-kits-p1293.aspx
Thank you. You know, I saw that clutch from UUC before...I don't know why it didn't register. I also saw the same Sachs setup in the HPF website....that site specified that a light weight flywheel was required. I wonder what the major differences are between the UUC and Sach clutches?

[lkstaack]

Your clutch life should most definitely not be diminishing because of 350hp...
Well, I don't want to spend more for a clutch than I have to. What do you base your opinion on? My clutch needs to be replaced at 88k miles. I don't ride the clutch, and at age 50, I don't burn rubber for the boys.

[az3579]

Your clutch life should most definitely not be diminishing because of 350hp...

That isn't the point he's making. We're not looking into why it's slipping, just looking at the fact that it is slipping.

Just as a bit of information, the reasoning behind the potential need for a clutch upgrade is the fact that not all clutches can handle power that's a certain amount higher than they're designed for. When the clutch is engaged (foot off the pedal) and you're accelerating, the additional power and torque from the supercharger is being transmitted to the drive wheels through the flywheel and clutch. If the clutch isn't designed to handle that kind of power, it will start slipping, therefore reducing the life of the clutch. However, I do not think that an additional 100hp is going to be beyond the full potential for the stock clutch. Maybe for 500hp, but not for 350...

From the title, I'm sensing hesitation that you have about keeping your stock flywheel if you upgrade your clutch. Do you think the stock flywheel isn't sufficient? Because the clutch is slipping now, do you actually have any qualms about installing a stock clutch? Did you buy your car new, or used? If used, what mileage did you buy it at? The previous owner's driving habits may have affected the life of the clutch, and for all we know, the stock clutch could handle that power just fine.

If you had the car since new, and you say you aren't slipping the clutch much, then perhaps there's a case for a need for a stronger clutch. If this truly is the case, I don't have any recommendations. My thought is that the stock clutch/flywheel should be able to handle that power just fine.

Just a random collection of notes:
If you're set on an aftermarket clutch, then just ignore this post. I'm of the thinking that the stock setup is fine, but if you're looking for aftermarket, I don't really know what's good. I used to have an E30 with an S50 engine in it, which is a popular swap in the E30 community. A lot of people kept their stock Getrag 260 transmissions that came in their cars from the factory, and the clutch/flywheel combos handled the added power just fine. I, however, switched to the ZF S5D320-Z transmission, which is what came in the car I got the engine from (1995 M3, E36). I upgraded to a lightweight flywheel and kept the stock clutch. Boy did that thing chatter like a son-of-a-beech, but rev matching was much more precise and acceleration (I'm told) was a tad bit stronger than one with the same transmission but stock flywheel. I can understand your hesitance on swapping the flywheel to a lightweight one; that chatter just isn't worth it.

[nike001]

Well, I don't want to spend more for a clutch than I have to. What do you base your opinion on? My clutch needs to be replaced at 88k miles. I don't ride the clutch, and at age 50, I don't burn rubber for the boys.

You can replace it with an OE one. The additional 100hp/tq won't do much. See below.


That isn't the point he's making. We're not looking into why it's slipping, just looking at the fact that it is slipping.


It kind of is though. See OP:

The OEM clutch works well, but I'm concerned that the increased HP has shortened its life.

Bottom line is that the additional ~100hp/tq didn't do much to the clutch... and if it did, the additional wear wouldn't be enough to be measurable. Everyone drives different, that means there are too many factors involved in trying to see if the added power did have any effects. Now I can't provide any links because everyone can search on their own, but I've seen many people say on e46f that the stock clutch can handle the additional power. There are many guys running boost and I haven't seen anyone get a new clutch for their added 1-200hp besides just doing it proactively.

[az3579]

So we can pretty much conclude that the factory clutch is more than sufficient for the extra power? Factory parts are usually pretty expensive though compared to aftermarket, but there is also something to be said about longevity on that statement. The factory stuff usually lasts longer depending on what it is, and I think a clutch is one of those items.

[nike001]

We all know BMW overly engineers every piece of the car. You think they'd make a clutch on a 225/235hp car able to only withstand 235hp? lol please. They know people are going to boost their cars...

Stage II-III is usually where clutches come into play. But by then... who cares? You've already proven that money isn't much of an object by then...

[lkstaack]

but I've seen many people say on e46f that the stock clutch can handle the additional power. There are many guys running boost and I haven't seen anyone get a new clutch for their added 1-200hp besides just doing it proactively.
Yes, I follow the forced induction board on E46F, but my take-away is different than yours. From my reading, most of the posters indicate they have performed an aftermarket clutch upgrade, with most going the light weight flywheel route. Those who have opted for Stage 3 pucks report a non-stock feel with grabbing and/or squealing. I just recall one person indicating that they have successfully used a stock clutch assembly, with the caveat that they don't get on it hard when launching. OTOH, most owners of boosted E46 non-M aren't posting on the board.

I don't want to pay the extra money for an aftermarket clutch assembly if I don't have to; but I would sure hate to experience slippage after going to the trouble to remove the tranny.

[az3579]

Has it always slipped for as long as you owned your supercharger and/or car? Or did it start slipping after a while and was fine with the stock clutch prior?
If there was a point in time where it was fine with the stock clutch, then I think there's your answer right there.

Have you checked prices? Perhaps there are aftermarket clutches that are cheaper? If there are, then you could just resolve this in one fell swoop, both achieving your price point and addressing your doubt of whether the stock clutch can handle it.

[lkstaack]

Has it always slipped for as long as you owned your supercharger and/or car? Or did it start slipping after a while and was fine with the stock clutch prior?
If there was a point in time where it was fine with the stock clutch, then I think there's your answer right there.

Have you checked prices? Perhaps there are aftermarket clutches that are cheaper? If there are, then you could just resolve this in one fell swoop, both achieving your price point and addressing your doubt of whether the stock clutch can handle it.
No, it didn't slip after I installed the supercharger. Started slipping around 40k miles later.

The stock SAC assembly is cheapest. The UUC light weight flywheel with E36 M3 pressure plate is a little more, but I don't want a a LW fly, and I'm not convinced that the E36 M3 pressure plate has greater clamping pressure than stock E46. A HD Sachs pressure plate and clutch is about $300 more than stock.

[az3579]

I guess at this point it's a matter of personal preference of what you want for feel. Your original post said you want stronger clamping pressure without the need for an aftermarket flywheel; just out of curiosity, would a lightweight flywheel be an absolute requirement of the HD Sachs pressure plate?