Noise from front wheels

[deuce08s]

So I've noticed on my car that when I drive less than 20 mph that I hear a cyclical thud coming from the front wheels. Sounds more like it's on the left than right, maybe because I sit on the left!? The steering wheel doesn't seem to move in sync to the thudding, but I can't think of what it could be. When I bought the car the dealer said the FCABs were starting to go, so I have Meyle HDs in the garage ready to put on. Ever since it got colder here I also noticed that when I back out of parking spots and especially when I turn the wheel and hit some kind of bump that I hear another separate thud on the bottom of the bump. Could that be the FCABs being loose?

Do problems just happen to develop on these cars when the weather changes!? Not only did I have the above issues start, but I also just replaced the thermostat as I had no heat when it was 25 degrees! Thank God for the seat heater!

So, thoughts on my thudding? Could it be a bearing? Its real deep and noticeable to me, but passengers haven't said anything.

Thanks!

[telijah]

Bearing was my first guess. If you think it is the rear, find an open road, and do some large s-turns. If when you turn right, therefore adding more weight to the left, and the noise gets louder, then you're one step closer. I know that was the normal test on my previous cars to tell if it was a bearing.

As for the thud coming out of the drive way, that does indeed sound like bad fcabs, but could really be a number of others as well. But since you've already had one shop give this as the diagnosis, I'd start there.

[deuce08s]

Bearing was my first guess. If you think it is the rear, find an open road, and do some large s-turns. If when you turn right, therefore adding more weight to the left, and the noise gets louder, then you're one step closer. I know that was the normal test on my previous cars to tell if it was a bearing.

As for the thud coming out of the drive way, that does indeed sound like bad fcabs, but could really be a number of others as well. But since you've already had one shop give this as the diagnosis, I'd start there.

Yeah, when I had a PPI done at the BMW dealer they said they were a starting to get loose. What are the other signs of bad CABs?

My thudding noise when I go slow happens when I drive straight and when I take turns. It seems to go away once I drive faster than about 30 mph. On my past cars with bad wheel bearings it's been much louder, more constant, and it got worse at higher speeds. That's why I'm hesitant to suspect the wheel bearing. BUT, it is a BMW, and Lord knows what kind of weird failure modes their parts have! I've only had the car a few months and it's already been just weird and kind of a PITA. But I love driving it!

Thanks for the advice!

[danewilson77]

Jack up the front end, grab the tire at 9 and 3 and rock it back and forth. If you get movement, you def need CAB's.

[deuce08s]

Jack up the front end, grab the tire at 9 and 3 and rock it back and forth. If you get movement, you def need CAB's.

And if I don't get movement? What do you think my 'thud' could be? It doesn't worsen in turns and seems to only be at low speeds.

[danewilson77]

Could be end links or bad FSM's?

When you're backing up, and you go over a bump (say the thresh hold in a garage) the shock rapidly compresses, but a very short distance. That endlink is tied to your sway bar, and the shock body. It may move and make a thump if in poor condition, even though by design, the endlinks are there to transfer weight side to side in turns.

The FSM if in poor condition could defintely make a thump as the top of your shock/coil is rigidly connected here.

If you're positive that the CAB's are good, move on to other visual inspections.

I would like to know exactly what the BMW tech saw/felt telling him the CAB's were "Beginning to get loose".

I will tell you what I tell everyone. Make the tech shoooooow you the issue when they identify something.

The last alignment I had done....they came out and told me I had a minute OFHG leaf, and my diff was leaking. I said "show me" and we walked out to the shop, and I was able to put my eyes on both issues. You have to do this....everytime.

[sketchyd]

I will tell you what I tell everyone. Make the tech shoooooow you the issue when they identify something.

The last alignment I had done....they came out and told me I had a minute OFHG leaf, and my diff was leaking. I said "show me" and we walked out to the shop, and I was able to put my eyes on both issues. You have to do this....everytime.

this is great advice. as a tech, this is something that we try to do when the customer is around. showing someone that the wheel is moving side to side this much, and look at how that bushing is flexing or that balljoint is moving compared to the other side, it really helps validate the repair in the customer's mind. a good tech/shop won't have a problem showing you the problem.

[telijah]

this is great advice. as a tech, this is something that we try to do when the customer is around. showing someone that the wheel is moving side to side this much, and look at how that bushing is flexing or that balljoint is moving compared to the other side, it really helps validate the repair in the customer's mind. a good tech/shop won't have a problem showing you the problem.

"As a tech" I agree you would like to do this, but as a shop it is sadly not a common practice, at least not at large chains of shops. I went to a Tires Plus and they wanted to replace an entire control arm due to a failed bushing. I asked "Why not jsut replace the bushing". I could tell I caught him off guard that I knew the bushing could be replaced separately. He told me "Oh well I could not get the bushing alone until tomorrow so decided we would recommend a whole control arm". I was a bit ticked.

[Jlastor]

how would bad balljoints on the CA's sound/feel like?

[danewilson77]

how would bad balljoints on the CA's sound/feel like?

You can't replace yours aside from the entire control arm.

Same think though. Physical movement or visual damage/wear.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[deuce08s]

Could be end links or bad FSM's?

When you're backing up, and you go over a bump (say the thresh hold in a garage) the shock rapidly compresses, but a very short distance. That endlink is tied to your sway bar, and the shock body. It may move and make a thump if in poor condition, even though by design, the endlinks are there to transfer weight side to side in turns.

The FSM if in poor condition could defintely make a thump as the top of your shock/coil is rigidly connected here.

If you're positive that the CAB's are good, move on to other visual inspections.

I would like to know exactly what the BMW tech saw/felt telling him the CAB's were "Beginning to get loose".

I will tell you what I tell everyone. Make the tech shoooooow you the issue when they identify something.

The last alignment I had done....they came out and told me I had a minute OFHG leaf, and my diff was leaking. I said "show me" and we walked out to the shop, and I was able to put my eyes on both issues. You have to do this....everytime.


Well, I suppose I could have driven to the dealer that did the PPI for me to have him show me, but I drove 500 miles to pick the car up, so I trusted him. Plus, the seller also warned me about the CABs. He said there was bad inner tire wear, but when I got the car I didn't think there was anything uneven about the wear of the front tires.

I've also noticed "movement" up there upon changes in momentum of the car. For instance, as I come to a stop. It seems as though at the time when the car stops and I let off the brake pedal I can feel/hear a shift in the front end. I really need to jack the thing up. So, how easily will I be able to move things around if I grab the wheel and start yanking on it? It just feels like things are loose up there. I don't know. Maybe I"ll have to pay the dealer to check it out. :(

[danewilson77]

Just jack it up.....and put it on stands. PUT IT ON STANDS!!! With the wheel on the car....see how much movement you get when attempting to move the wheel by hand. Then....when satisfied with the "shake test", do a visual on all bushings consisting of:

1. Control arm bushings.
2. Tie rod bushings.
3. End link bushings.
4. Look at inner and outer ball joints on the control arms.
5. Look at FSM's underneath, and from above in engine bay.
6. Might as well look at your sway bar bushings, brake pads/calipers, and look around for coolant/oil leaks.

[Oli77]

My tires do this too. I have nailed it down to the tires being feathered.
I know that because when I switch to winter tires (brand new), the noise is totally absent.
Try shifting tires front to back, does the noise change?

[deuce08s]

My tires do this too. I have nailed it down to the tires being feathered.
I know that because when I switch to winter tires (brand new), the noise is totally absent.
Try shifting tires front to back, does the noise change?

Can't be the tires as I just put on my winter tires and it still does it.

Another thing I've noticed is that there is a descending exit ramp that I take sometimes, and it has only been this ramp, that when wet and kind of cold out causes the DSC light to flash on the dash as I"m taking the ramp. It feels as though it is trying to brake just the fronts, but it feels like it is going to lose control. Not sure if faulty suspension components can cause this, but it also happened with both sets of wheels/tires.

And not sure if this helps, but as I said, it only does it below about 25 mph. I should try to record it or something. ALmost like something is out of round, I don't know. I have to jack it up and PUT IT ON STANDS to see what I can see.

Thanks guys

[sketchyd]

"As a tech" I agree you would like to do this, but as a shop it is sadly not a common practice, at least not at large chains of shops. I went to a Tires Plus and they wanted to replace an entire control arm due to a failed bushing. I asked "Why not jsut replace the bushing". I could tell I caught him off guard that I knew the bushing could be replaced separately. He told me "Oh well I could not get the bushing alone until tomorrow so decided we would recommend a whole control arm". I was a bit ticked.

sadly, this is often true. at my shop, we try to do this, but you are correct in that it is not common practice.

OP, if you get your car up here are some spots to shake:

Yellow: both hands on outside of tire, opposite each other and push one then the other. 9+3 will move(steering) but should be smooth; if it clunks, could have a bad tirerod. 12+6 should have no play whatsoever. (alternately, one inside tire, one outside at 6oclock, push/pull). outer ball joint on the LCA.
Red: one hand inside, one outside of tire. push/pull, should have no play. inner ball joint on LCA
Purple: from the front of vehicle, one hand inside, one outside of wheel, push/pull wheel forward and back in relation to the vehicle. watch the LCAB, the control arm will move some in the bushing. should not be more than ~3/8" side-to-side (that's maybe even too much)

[deuce08s]

sadly, this is often true. at my shop, we try to do this, but you are correct in that it is not common practice.

OP, if you get your car up here are some spots to shake:

Yellow: both hands on outside of tire, opposite each other and push one then the other. 9+3 will move(steering) but should be smooth; if it clunks, could have a bad tirerod. 12+6 should have no play whatsoever. (alternately, one inside tire, one outside at 6oclock, push/pull). outer ball joint on the LCA.
Red: one hand inside, one outside of tire. push/pull, should have no play. inner ball joint on LCA
Purple: from the front of vehicle, one hand inside, one outside of wheel, push/pull wheel forward and back in relation to the vehicle. watch the LCAB, the control arm will move some in the bushing. should not be more than ~3/8" side-to-side (that's maybe even too much)



Thanks Deuce!

[sketchyd]

HAH! DEUCES WILD! never even read your s/n till now. i got that nickname at school in phoenix by a couple of other new england guys.

[deuce08s]

HAH! DEUCES WILD! never even read your s/n till now. i got that nickname at school in phoenix by a couple of other new england guys.

Awesome! My parents gave that name to me as a toddler and they have no idea why or where it came from. It has stuck with me all these years!

[LivesNearCostco]

Getting funny humming/rumble noises at certain speeds since last track day. Suspected uneven tread wear or lost balance weight, but persisted after getting wheels re-balanced and swapping front wheels to OEM ones with new tires. Tried removing spacers and cleaning mounting points with wire brush. Humming is based on car speed (worst 40-65 mph), not engine RPM, and seems turning left, goes away when turning right. No clunking under braking and steering feels firm. Car drives straight.

Left front wheel has play when grabbed at 9/3 o'clock, but not at 12/6 o'clock. All other wheels firm to the shake test. Probabilities seem 1) wheel bearing 2) tie rod, or 3) control arm joints. FCABs are about 7 months old AKG poly. Control arms have about 4 years and 80,000 miles. Tie rods only 4 months old. All wheel bearings probably original.

Today ordered new bearing, axle nut, inner dust shield and outer dust cap. Hopefully it arrives tomorrow, and tonight I'll try to lift front end and check for play in tie rod and control arm ball joints.


Just jack it up.....and put it on stands. PUT IT ON STANDS!!! With the wheel on the car....see how much movement you get when attempting to move the wheel by hand. Then....when satisfied with the "shake test", do a visual on all bushings consisting of:

1. Control arm bushings.
2. Tie rod bushings.
3. End link bushings.
4. Look at inner and outer ball joints on the control arms.
5. Look at FSM's underneath, and from above in engine bay.
6. Might as well look at your sway bar bushings, brake pads/calipers, and look around for coolant/oil leaks.