All windows up/down button... can be modded?

[JupiterBMW]

So, after taking rides in William and John's verts, I started to wonder if the 'all windows up/down' button can be modded to fit into the sedans?

Instead of the window lock button, I'd much rather have this...

Anyone? The switch panels are pretty available on eBay...

[az3579]

Huh? What are you talking about?
There's an ALL windows up button???

[BCS_ZHP]

BP, yes on the vert's there is a separate button to raise/lower all simultaneously.

[zj96sc]

Seems like something that should be available via coding...not sure if there are any significant hardware differences behind the scenes. The logic certainly exists through they key one touch down feature. I'd definitely be interested.

[JupiterBMW]

Wait, you mean to tell me you guys haven't already thought of this?? I figured I'd get pointed to a dozen or so already completed DIYs... and a few asshat comments for not searching... :rofl

I'm like a pioneer! :biggrin Now I just need a vert.

[Hermes]

just cut the lock thing off the 2 rear pop open window control, then all can do the auto up. I don't need one button to work all 4 (really only 2 are ever open) windows at once

[mimalmo]

Looks like it is a coding item. See the bottom of page three. You probably would also need to have the appropriate switch.

http://www.e38.org/B090398_Att2_CKMSet.PDF

[JupiterBMW]

Well, I'll play guinea pig on this one. I just ordered a switch assembly from eBay. Brand new assembly, located here in Florida...

So, as soon as it arrives, I'll install and see what sort of response I get...

Will update thread soon. :)

[328ioc]

Jon, I need to see this. Sounds like a great idea.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[JupiterBMW]

You need to get your ass back to Florida!

[328ioc]

You need to get your ass back to Florida!

Lol, ill be back Sunday night.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[alexandre]

Didn't know this existed! Subscribed as I'd love to have that functionality.

EDIT: BMW part number is 61316902183. $41 at Tischer.

I'd think it wouldn't even require coding. Kinda like homelink. The switch probably uses different wires than that of the 'lock' button.

[JupiterBMW]

Yeah, I'm hoping that it works without coding, but we'll see. I spoke with William and he said he had to code it so that he'd get the auto up of all windows from the button. But, if the switch works just on install (auto down, manual up) I'd be happy... I can code the auto down later... William did also confirm that the small tab needs to be broken off as the switch has the mechanical "block" that prevents auto up.

[JupiterBMW]

Well, I got the switch in the mail today, so I'm going to be installing shortly and see what happens... We'll see... :)

[Hornung418]

In for results!

From a GS3, this was sent.

[johnrando]

In for results!

From a GS3, this was sent.
+1

[static667]

This may be a mod worth considering. I did a thread on how to "unlock" the auto up on you switches here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?7160-Rear-window-switch-quot-un-lock-quot), if that's any help. I believe that coding will be required in order to make the switch work. I had to have BP open up the auto close function for my rear windows to work.

[JupiterBMW]

Yep your thread is already open on my laptop... Thanks for that!

In terms of coding, definitely will be needed. The switch works in my car, well, all buttons but the "all windows" button. And sedans already have the bak windows coded to go up and down with auto. So, the only coding I need is the "all windows" to work.

Of course, not sure I can make that happen. We shall see. Here's a pic tho!

6436

[328ioc]

Very nice. I hope we can get it to work.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Hornung418]

Did you compare the harness clips before install? I'm surprised it doesn't lock the windows. Suggest getting the wife in the back and trying to operate a window while you press down on the "all open" switch.

From a GS3, this was sent.

[alexandre]

It's a big harness. Probably has pins for all the functions, and different switches use different ones?

[JupiterBMW]

Yeah. The lock switch that comes in the sedans uses 7 pins, and the switch from the verts has 8 pins. So, have to figure out what that extra wire does and go from there.


Sent from my hybrid iPhone 4/4S... :shifty

[JupiterBMW]

Bringing this thread back to the top...

With my spare time at night on the ship, I've been doing some tinkering, and I've basically traced the circuitry on both the vert switch assembly and the sedan switch assembly, and compared them both...

So, long story short, not going to be an easy mod. The "all windows" switch that comes in the verts basically works just the same as all of the other buttons. It uses pins 7 and 8 on the connector. Pin 2 is the common pin to every button in both switch sets. That means pin 2 must be the common 12V. Well, pin 7 and 8 activate up and down on the "all windows". Ironically, on the sedan switch, the lock button uses pin 2 and 8. There is no pin 7, as mentioned above. So, some actual electrical work has to be done, as well as some coding. But, I'm thinking that if the correct electrical is done, coding might not be necessary. Perhaps just a little trickery in terms of the signaling.

Upon further digging, the sedan wiring harness only has 7 wires coming into the switch, so its not typical like other things in the car and "pre-wired".

Needless to say, I am working on this. Stay tuned, or subscribe for more info as it happens... That'll be a while, but still. If anyone has a junk E46 laying around, I'd love it if you'd be willing to clip the wiring harness that plugs into this switch. I need the connector with 4-6" of wiring on it so I can make a jumper harness... :biggrin

[Hornung418]

Tyco is the manufacturer of the MQS socket connectors. You might try sourcing a reel of them for around $10. You will also need the special crimping tool to securely attach them to the harness. adding one wire shouldn't be too big of a deal. I'm retrofitting the electronic pedal into my car and will need to buy around 100 just so I have spares when I eventually screw one up. I think the tool can be bought for around $20.

[JupiterBMW]

Tyco is the manufacturer of the MQS socket connectors. You might try sourcing a reel of them for around $10. You will also need the special crimping tool to securely attach them to the harness. adding one wire shouldn't be too big of a deal. I'm retrofitting the electronic pedal into my car and will need to buy around 100 just so I have spares when I eventually screw one up. I think the tool can be bought for around $20.

This reply is pure cash money... Thanks dood... :thumbsup

[az3579]

Tyco is the manufacturer of the MQS socket connectors. You might try sourcing a reel of them for around $10. You will also need the special crimping tool to securely attach them to the harness. adding one wire shouldn't be too big of a deal. I'm retrofitting the electronic pedal into my car and will need to buy around 100 just so I have spares when I eventually screw one up. I think the tool can be bought for around $20.

You want drive-by-wire???? Are you ready for throttle lag?

If I convert mine to be driven by a throttle cable instead, I would.


Sent from my iPhone 4S from Tapatalk

[wsmeyer]

Bringing this thread back to the top...

With my spare time at night on the ship, I've been doing some tinkering, and I've basically traced the circuitry on both the vert switch assembly and the sedan switch assembly, and compared them both...

So, long story short, not going to be an easy mod. The "all windows" switch that comes in the verts basically works just the same as all of the other buttons. It uses pins 7 and 8 on the connector. Pin 2 is the common pin to every button in both switch sets. That means pin 2 must be the common 12V. Well, pin 7 and 8 activate up and down on the "all windows". Ironically, on the sedan switch, the lock button uses pin 2 and 8. There is no pin 7, as mentioned above. So, some actual electrical work has to be done, as well as some coding. But, I'm thinking that if the correct electrical is done, coding might not be necessary. Perhaps just a little trickery in terms of the signaling.

Upon further digging, the sedan wiring harness only has 7 wires coming into the switch, so its not typical like other things in the car and "pre-wired".

Needless to say, I am working on this. Stay tuned, or subscribe for more info as it happens... That'll be a while, but still. If anyone has a junk E46 laying around, I'd love it if you'd be willing to clip the wiring harness that plugs into this switch. I need the connector with 4-6" of wiring on it so I can make a jumper harness... :biggrin

With that info I think I've got it figured out.

I can't seem to link directly to it but open up TWO browser tabs and on one navigate to:

http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/release/us/e46/index.htm

then drill down:

>> Complete Vehicle
>> body
>> Locking and security functions
>> Power Windows, front
>> Power window switch, driver's side (Saloon or Touring)

On the second tab:

http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/release/us/e46/index.htm

then drill down:

>> Complete Vehicle
>> body
>> Locking and security functions
>> Power Windows, front
>> Power window switch, driver's side (convertible)


For both, the lowest grey block is the switch assembly itself and the grey block above is the GM5 module.

On the (Saloon or Touring), on the left side of the switch block you can see pin 8 is the Single Throw, Single Pole switch used to lock the windows, and it goes to pin 21 on the GM5 module.

On the (Convertible), the three switches are all Double Pole, Double Throw so look at the switch block in terms of the 'left pair', 'middle pair', 'right pair'. The middle and right pairs are the same as (Saloon Touring) so those are obviously front / back switches. The left pair is the all window switch and it uses pins 7,8 on the switch block and pins 16,4 on the GM5.

Thus, the mod will require the following:

1) The switch assembly from a convertible
2) Disassemble it and cut the plastic rib out that physically blocks the auto up feature
3) Move the wire going to pin 21 on the GM5 module to pin 4 on the GM5 module
4) Run a new wire from pin 7 on the switch block to pin 16 on the GM5 module
5) Activate the 'All Window Up' feature in the GM5 via NCS Expert
6) Activate the 'All Window Auto Up' feature via NCS Expert

Jon's already got the switch assembly. We need to figure out what size pins are used on both sides of the new wire and then you can buy oem ones cheap:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BW53&mospid=47707&btnr=61_2217&hg=61&fg=15

Then we need someone in Florida to do the coding

[Redrider2002]

Jon, you are the quintessential "mod" animal. Once again, I'll be waiting to see how this one turns out.

[JupiterBMW]

Jon, you are the quintessential "mod" animal. Once again, I'll be waiting to see how this one turns out.

Thanks bud. I always like to do really cool mods that aren't just a "I bought ____ part and slapped it on..." That is great, but the ingenuity mods are awesome. :thumbsup

[JupiterBMW]

Well guys, I wanted to bring this back to the top and let you all know that I am working on it. I installed my aux input kit today, and while I was in there, I decided to poke around with the wiring at the GM5 module. I took a bunch of pics of connectors, but need to sit down and compare wire diagrams with actual connectors and see what can be done.

Will post the pics and more when I get the home Internet sorted. Tapatalk is my only line at the moment...

Anyway, I'm heading out of town tomorrow for 6 days, but as soon as I'm back, more work done on this.

[cityjohn]

Sounds like you'll have this worked out soon. So close to the solution.



Oh, and...


I'm like a pioneer! :biggrin Now I just need a vert.

your words!

[Crestwood1001]

Your guys cars don't have auto up on all four windows? All four of mine are auto up auto down

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[Pip]

All four windows have auto up/down on coupe sedan but the mod would be to delete the window lock and have one switch put all windows up/down. Subtle difference but it is different.

[JupiterBMW]

Your guys cars don't have auto up on all four windows? All four of mine are auto up auto down

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Yes, as Pip said... This is a completely different switch assembly for the drivers side, that does not have the lock button, instead it has a button that will do all 4 windows... Auto up, auto down, all 4, one switch... :) Why? Just because I want to do it. :)

[RITmusic2k]

Thanks for keeping us posted, Jon! My driver's window switch recently broke in such a way that it lost its auto-down functionality, so I was about to replace the switch module anyway... if we can get this cracked, it'll be rad!

Side note - I wonder if we can cicumvent the "coding" part by simply wiring the 5th switch in parallel with the contacts of each of the other four switches. It'd be a mess of wiring, but I bet it might yield acceptable results.

[wsmeyer]

Jon, can you post up a pic of that yellow note where you tested all the pins?


I wonder if we can circumvent the "coding" part by simply wiring the 5th switch in parallel with the contacts of each of the other four switches. It'd be a mess of wiring, but I bet it might yield acceptable results.

At one point this was plan B but after Jon but we kinda got off of tat after he traced the switches and pins.

All of the switches would ground one pin at the first position, and then a second pin at the second (auto) position. I don't remember the numbers but for example:

Passenger Front would ground A, then at the second position, A+B

However...

Driver Front would ground B, then at the second position, B+A

IMO this indicates that the GM5 has some logic chip in it that controls the windows based on the combination of pins grounded. You might still be able to use relays to trigger all of the auto-up functions at once but it's looking like you would need a few relays on a proto board.

[RITmusic2k]

As long as everything is paralleled according to function, I think I should be in the clear. The GM5 doesn't seem to have a problem with two window switches being pressed simultaneously, and it's all just basic contact-closure; there aren't coded signals being passed through these switches. There shouldn't be any conceptual problem with a single switch closing all four "controlled down" pins at the half-press position, followed by closing all four "auto down" pins at the full-press position, and vice versa for the up modes. Except for it being a potential rat's nest of wiring, that is...

[Torxuvin]

I, for one, think Jon may regret not having a window lock when the girls are a little older. :rofl

[wsmeyer]

As long as everything is paralleled according to function, I think I should be in the clear. The GM5 doesn't seem to have a problem with two window switches being pressed simultaneously, and it's all just basic contact-closure; there aren't coded signals being passed through these switches. There shouldn't be any conceptual problem with a single switch closing all four "controlled down" pins at the half-press position, followed by closing all four "auto down" pins at the full-press position, and vice versa for the up modes. Except for it being a potential rat's nest of wiring, that is...

You can do that. But you can't just splice all the auto-down wires together onto the one "all" switch. If you did that you would then essentially have 5 all-down auto switches because triggering any one of them would then trigger all of them.

What you would have to do is use FOUR, 4-pole, single-throw relays. One for each position of the All-Window switch.

Position UP-1 would trip one relay and ground each windows UP pin.
Position UP-2 would trip a second relay and ground each windows UP-Auto pin.

Same for down

This is why I said you would really need to use a proto-board.

[JupiterBMW]

William- I will get a hold of that note when I'm home... I think there are other easier methods as well, but I'll have to look into that. I will also draw out a detailed circuit diagram that will allow us to figure out the most efficient way of going about this mod... We'll see...

Being out of town AGAIN is really cramping my style! :biggrin

[BMWCurves]

Stumbled on this thread. Joop, did you or anyone else ever solve this?

[wsmeyer]

He was able to make it work from the front but had to disable the switches in the rear to make it happen. This was fine with him as he has two little kids but certainly not ideal.

I still believe that you would have to use relays to get this to work.

[BMWCurves]

He was able to make it work from the front but had to disable the switches in the rear to make it happen. This was fine with him as he has two little kids but certainly not ideal.

I still believe that you would have to use relays to get this to work.

Hmmm...

My car's a coupe so there's no loss of functionality in the rear for me. I would love to have all up/down functionality. I'd have to track down a new console trim piece to accommodate the larger driver's side switch, but what else would this entail? Since it requires more wiring, correct?

[JupiterBMW]

Hmmm...

My car's a coupe so there's no loss of functionality in the rear for me. I would love to have all up/down functionality. I'd have to track down a new console trim piece to accommodate the larger driver's side switch, but what else would this entail? Since it requires more wiring, correct?

Would be easier with a coupe for sure. Yes, you'll need the shifter trim for a sedan, but I don't think you'll have any other problems. The all windows button uses a couple of the same pin outs as the window lock button, but you don't have that, so those pins should be clear. It's been so long since I did this I'd have to re-read the thread from the beginning.


Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus using two hands to hold the damn thing!

[az3579]

Hmmm...

My car's a coupe so there's no loss of functionality in the rear for me. I would love to have all up/down functionality. I'd have to track down a new console trim piece to accommodate the larger driver's side switch, but what else would this entail? Since it requires more wiring, correct?

I think he coded his car as a convertible to make it work. You may have to do the same...

[BMWCurves]

I think he coded his car as a convertible to make it work. You may have to do the same...

Can that be done through PASoft or will I need new coding software and/or dongle?

I'm still unsure if I'll have to do more wiring or if it'll simply be some coding. I'm very interested if anyone knows.

Thanks everyone for putting up with my questions, I really appreciate it!

EDIT: Looking at Tony's PASoft thread here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?14456-FS-PASOFT-BMW-SCANNER-1-4&highlight=pasoft), the ZKE has options for turning "Open - central switch" and "Close - central switch" under "One-touch function." Is that the same thing as all up/down button?

http://i.imgur.com/tq2uk.jpg

[az3579]

EDIT: Looking at Tony's PASoft thread here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?14456-FS-PASOFT-BMW-SCANNER-1-4&highlight=pasoft), the ZKE has options for turning "Open - central switch" and "Close - central switch" under "One-touch function." Is that the same thing as all up/down button?



I'm fairly certain all that does is make the button one touch versus having to hold it down. You'd still have to code the car to be able to use that button.

[BMWCurves]

I'm fairly certain all that does is make the button one touch versus having to hold it down. You'd still have to code the car to be able to use that button.

Gotcha. I assume that would take more than PASoft?

[wsmeyer]

I think we are talking about two different things here.

If you take the switch block of a vert or coupe apart and then cut out a plastic rib the rear switches will then be able to go up and down to the second position which triggers the auto up / down feature. You also have to activate this feature in PA Soft before it will actually work.

JupiterBMW undertook a more advanced mod: transplanting a drivers side switch assembly from a vert that has an all windows up / down - auto up / auto down button into a sedan / coupe. To do this you'll need the switch assembly, a shifter surround from a vert / sedan, and, for a sedan, run one wire from the switch assembly to the GM5 module. I don't believe anyone has done this on a coupe so this step may be unnecessary.

** EDIT - For the second mod you would also have to reprogram the car as a vert using NCSExpert.

[BMWCurves]

I think we are talking about two different things here.

If you take the switch block of a vert or coupe apart and then cut out a plastic rib the rear switches will then be able to go up and down to the second position which triggers the auto up / down feature. You also have to activate this feature in PA Soft before it will actually work.

That part I've already done. I dremeled down the upper housing on each window switch so that it can one-touch close the rear windows.


JupiterBMW undertook a more advanced mod: transplanting a drivers side switch assembly from a vert that has an all windows up / down - auto up / auto down button into a sedan / coupe. To do this you'll need the switch assembly, a shifter surround from a vert / sedan, and, for a sedan, run one wire from the switch assembly to the GM5 module. I don't believe anyone has done this on a coupe so this step may be unnecessary.

** EDIT - For the second mod you would also have to reprogram the car as a vert using NCSExpert.

That's the info I was looking for, thanks! Not sure if it's something I'll pursue but was interested to see what it would take to do in a coupe.

[JupiterBMW]

William, thank you for posting that, you are correct. The extra wire will still need to be run, it'll just be easier because there shouldn't be any wires currently in those spots in the GM5.


Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus using two hands to hold the damn thing!