Is the ZHP frail?

[Smolck]

So I know better than to do it, but I was trolling the board on E46fanatics and a thread about the oil pump nut issue came up. One guy said he had seen one ZHP loose the OPN on the track, killing it and another blow rod #5 out of the side of the block.

They then went on to say the m54b30 in general was weak and not meant for tracking.

I am just curious of everyone's take on that statement. The 3 people I know that track/auto-X their ZHP's have never had an issue. My car has 161k miles, and while I have never tracked it, it gets a pretty decent workout everytime I drive it. Am I just a redline or two away from tragedy?

[danewilson77]

We've not seen any here. Additionally there is an improved ZHP / E46 opn.

That's not to say one of our track rats here haven't heard of it though. I'll let these fine gentlemen chime in as well.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[Hornung418]

If you're holding at 6k+ be worried.

Horney...via TT.

[Stu]

The ZHP oil nut is microencapsulated with a strong thread locking compound. I don't think it can back off as a result. I'm personally not worried one bit. If you do have to take off the oil pan for whatever reason, it wouldn't hurt to install a safety wire or weld it down while you're in there.

http://store.bimmerworld.com/m50-drilled-oil-pump-nut-p640.aspx

If you want absolute piece of mind, I'd buy that, put Loctite Red on there, and you'll never have it happen.

Also, I swear I've seen you a lot on other sites when browsing how to fix my E46 problems. That picture of your dog makes me laugh every time.

[Hornung418]

Well the issue with that, Stu, is that if it wants to come off, it will. Either shearing or backing off. The ZHP is no different than a regular 330 in that regard. They used the thread locker, but that doesn't mean it wont fail under the right conditions, especially under load at high rpms.

Horney...via TT.

[nike001]

Drive it.


If shit hits the fan, it hits the fan.

[Stu]

With all this skepticism I have about my own oil pump nut sheering off, I can almost bet you I'll be a case of it. If I ever drop my oil pan, I'm going to get the improved one from VAC motorsports, if it's not too hard of a DIY to do. If it is well...I'll just at least do the safety wire and be okay with it.

[Smolck]

Drive it.


If shit hits the fan, it hits the fan.

This is what I am leaning towards.

[danewilson77]

This is what I am leaning towards.

I think you're leaning proper :shifty

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[wertyu78]

I second this
I think you're leaning proper :shifty

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[Sockethead]

If you're holding at 6k+ be worried.

Horney...via TT.
+1
I've been told by several people that race on a regular basis that sustained high RPMs is what kills it...they said don't take it above 6500 or so. The car doesn't really make any power up there anyway. The tunes that increase the rev limiter are a good way to grenade the motor... not the tune itself... the fact that now you can rev the motor higher than it was designed for....

Problem is that when your racing, your not always looking at the Tach... bouncing off the rev limiter lets you know that your at the upper limit only now with the tune, your well in the danger zone by the time it's bouncing the rev limiter. I would asume that most people that track their cars also have some kind of tune on them too.

BTW I have 120K on my car and have beaten the crap out of it since I bought it at 44K... so far, it's been one of the most reliable cars I've owned

[GMATT]

Drive mine at Watkins Glen International.( see 130 ish on the back strait:)

...................Usually rev to 6K ish and then shift. Have found in most situations shifting before the limiter is a good way to go................

My $.05 worth

Gary

[Smolck]

Good stuff guys. The only time I typically go to 6800rpm is if I am hammering down on it in 1st and 2nd gears (I have 3.46 diff so it happens quick) and in those instances it isn't there for long at all. I'm just gonna do what I do and if it blows, it blows. Car's paid for anyway, worst case it blows and I spend another $3k and I have a new motor.

[danewilson77]

Good stuff guys. The only time I typically go to 6800rpm is if I am hammering down on it in 1st and 2nd gears (I have 3.46 diff so it happens quick) and in those instances it isn't there for long at all. I'm just gonna do what I do and if it blows, it blows. Car's paid for anyway, worst case it blows and I spend another $3k and I have a new motor.

:like

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[Hermes]

if my motor ever died I would swap a Motorsport engine into it and have a sleeper

[Smolck]

if my motor ever died I would swap a Motorsport engine into it and have a sleeper

By motorsport you mean the S54?

[Hermes]

for a while I was thinking S62 but I just realized I can't legally do that in CA, back to the drawing board...

[midlandtech]

Good stuff guys. The only time I typically go to 6800rpm is if I am hammering down on it in 1st and 2nd gears (I have 3.46 diff so it happens quick) and in those instances it isn't there for long at all. I'm just gonna do what I do and if it blows, it blows. Car's paid for anyway, worst case it blows and I spend another $3k and I have a new motor.

Off topic a bit but what RPM are you turning on the highway with that diff gearing?


~Steve
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zhpnsnv]

Yea now that I don't have a highway commute I'm considering the 3.46. In for info.

[cakM3]

if my motor ever died I would swap a Motorsport engine into it and have a sleeper

+1

I would put in an S54 in the ZHP but then I would also complete the entire drive train while I'm at it...:thumbsup

No rebadging would be done....I would still rock the 330i badge on the bootlid...;)

[danewilson77]

+1

I would put in an S54 in the ZHP but then I would also complete the entire drive train while I'm at it...:thumbsup

No rebadging would be done....I would still rock the 330i badge on the bootlid...;)

Eff that.....make it a real sleep and put a 323i badge on it...hehe.

[Sockethead]

if my motor ever died I would swap a Motorsport engine into it and have a sleeper

If my motor ever died, I'd put another 330 in it and supercharge with ESS stage2 or 3. More HP and torque, less cost and no DME or drivetrain change... except for LSD

[cakM3]

Yeah Rob,

But there's something that touches my inner BMW sanctum regarding a true ///M drivetrain inside the ZHP....

[Smolck]

For those that asked, my RPM at 80mph is about 3200-3300. Here is a video I did you can see (sorry for the quality). What it did do for me is make 6th gear a useable passing gear, no more downshifting to pass which I like. I average 80mph when interstate driving (which I do a LOT) and I still pull down 27.5mpg's. In the city I average 21.1mpg's. The car is an animal is 2nd gear which I LOVE. I think a 3.38 might have been better, but either 3.46 or 3.38 is PERFECT for the ZHP.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmrLDBZ0dRA&list=UUuWcV_ePCN4zjZxt7cAwWcQ&index=13&feature=plcp

In the video you can see the SIGNIFCANT 4k rpm did I fight off and on, in this video it literally stops for a second and then picks back up. AAHHHHH!!!!!

[danewilson77]

$224.99 for a 3.38

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-3-38-Rear-Diff-Differential-Axle-E46-330i-330Ci-OEM-Part-33107505394-/200792847492?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ec02fb484&vxp=mtr


http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/T2eC16Z0E9s37HkiKBQi83wVh60_57.jpg

[Rovert]

Smolck is going to think his E46 M3 is too slow in the next 5 years of his existence just as his 323 was and 330 is. LOL

[az3579]

My car has seen 8 track events, and at at a minimum 12 autocrosses since I've had it (just over 2 years). 0 problems.
The thing is, that at my home track, No-Name Straight (a short straight) leaves me right at around 6800 RPM for a good few feet before the turn, so at that point, it's pointless to upshift and downshift again all in the span of 2-3 seconds. This happens every single lap.

I've turned many laps around there as you can imagine, doing the same thing. Noooo problems.


But whatever, even if it decides to go eventually, that's an excuse for an S54 so in a way I kind of hope it happens.
Preferably when I have enough money saved up, of course. :shifty

[Smolck]

My car has seen 8 track events, and at at a minimum 12 autocrosses since I've had it (just over 2 years). 0 problems.
The thing is, that at my home track, No-Name Straight (a short straight) leaves me right at around 6800 RPM for a good few feet before the turn, so at that point, it's pointless to upshift and downshift again all in the span of 2-3 seconds. This happens every single lap.

I've turned many laps around there as you can imagine, doing the same thing. Noooo problems.


But whatever, even if it decides to go eventually, that's an excuse for an S54 so in a way I kind of hope it happens.
Preferably when I have enough money saved up, of course. :shifty

This seems to be the norm. Glad to hear it.

Since I have posted this I have been abusing my car testing my new shock settings, no issues either. But I am going to get a VAC oil pump and just deal with it when I pull the pan to replace the gasket.

[JKO_ZHP]

The ZHP oil nut is microencapsulated with a strong thread locking compound. I don't think it can back off as a result. I'm personally not worried one bit. If you do have to take off the oil pan for whatever reason, it wouldn't hurt to install a safety wire or weld it down while you're in there.

http://store.bimmerworld.com/m50-drilled-oil-pump-nut-p640.aspx

If you want absolute piece of mind, I'd buy that, put Loctite Red on there, and you'll never have it happen.

Also, I swear I've seen you a lot on other sites when browsing how to fix my E46 problems. That picture of your dog makes me laugh every time.

+1 hahahaha
I know you're on E46Fanatics for sure.

[midlandtech]

For those that asked, my RPM at 80mph is about 3200-3300. Here is a video I did you can see (sorry for the quality). What it did do for me is make 6th gear a useable passing gear, no more downshifting to pass which I like. I average 80mph when interstate driving (which I do a LOT) and I still pull down 27.5mpg's. In the city I average 21.1mpg's. The car is an animal is 2nd gear which I LOVE. I think a 3.38 might have been better, but either 3.46 or 3.38 is PERFECT for the ZHP.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmrLDBZ0dRA&list=UUuWcV_ePCN4zjZxt7cAwWcQ& index=13&feature=plcp

In the video you can see the SIGNIFCANT 4k rpm did I fight off and on, in this video it literally stops for a second and then picks back up. AAHHHHH!!!!!

Nice I have been thinking about doing a 3.46 or 3.38 diff in mine just to add a bit of pep... I just don't want to be running high too high of RPMs while on the highway... Do you think 3000 is safe for highway cruising?


~Steve
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[az3579]

3000 is safe for highway cruising, but will destroy your fuel economy. If that doesn't matter to you, it sure does have some nice pull to it, so you probably wouldn't have to downshift to overtake...

[midlandtech]

I may have to look a little harder at it then


~Steve
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hornung418]

3000 is safe for highway cruising, but will destroy your fuel economy. If that doesn't matter to you, it sure does have some nice pull to it, so you probably wouldn't have to downshift to overtake...
False.

I cruise at 3000 rpm and get 28-30 depending if I have to go through the mountains.

[M3TA5IN]

False.

I cruise at 3000 rpm and get 28-30 depending if I have to go through the mountains.

I consistently cruise at 3000 RPMs in the e90 as well (80 mph). Avg 27 mpg an I drive hard.

Cruise at like 4 to 4.2k in the ///M. Avg 23 mpg an I drive it like I stole it 24/7


Sent from my fancy city machine.

[Smolck]

I cruise over 3k rpm's (typically 3400ish), if THAT blows my engine I'll buy a Kia Optima Turbo and hate BMW forever. It is 100% safe. As for fuel economy, I still pull down over 27mpg's on the interstate at the above mentioned RPM's.

[az3579]

False.

I cruise at 3000 rpm and get 28-30 depending if I have to go through the mountains.


I consistently cruise at 3000 RPMs in the e90 as well (80 mph). Avg 27 mpg an I drive hard.

Cruise at like 4 to 4.2k in the ///M. Avg 23 mpg an I drive it like I stole it 24/7


Sent from my fancy city machine.

Dunno guys, that to me is considered "destroyed" fuel economy, but then again, I'm used to 32-33. :biggrin

[M3TA5IN]

Dunno guys, that to me is considered "destroyed" fuel economy, but then again, I'm used to 32-33. :biggrin

Im use to driving a lifted jeep, anything over 15 mpg is Magic to me :biggrin

[Sockethead]

I discovered on my many trips out to Ohio that my ZHP gets better gas mileage at 80 mph than it does at 65
Wtf?

[danewilson77]

I discovered on my many trips out to Ohio that my ZHP gets better gas mileage at 80 mph than it does at 65
Wtf?

Agree.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[Hornung418]

I didn't buy a BMW for gas mileage.

[danewilson77]

I didn't buy a BMW for gas mileage.

Agree....to a point.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[Smolck]

I didn't buy a BMW for gas mileage.

I dang sure didn't install the 3.46 with that in mind either.

[terraphantm]

I discovered on my many trips out to Ohio that my ZHP gets better gas mileage at 80 mph than it does at 65
Wtf?

I noticed this in my old zhp too. Guess it just makes a good bit more torque from that rpm onward. I wonder if 65 in 5th gear would be any better

[BimmerWill]

I've noticed a difference in gas mileage as well running about 80 or so...granted I don't has 6th gear but tach reads around 3400 or so with the 3.90 rear end..I think a lot of it simply has to do with the terrain your driving in obviously...have managed to squeeze nearly 34 out of it lately though...

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[terraphantm]

Do you have an automatic? A 3.9 in a manual at 80 would be higher than 3400 rpm

[Nivo]

Gas mileage is more determined by load and injector pulse (ms) then RPM.
you can go 80mph and pulse the injectors at 9 ms. you can go 35mph and pulse the injectors at 40 ms. you would get better gas mileage at 80mph then 35mph in my scenario above.

Going 55mph on a slight incline you will get worse gas mileage the going 55mph on a flat freeway.

[Sockethead]

My trips to Ohio include going over/through the mountains. I think the highest elevation is 2700 ft.

Yea Horney, I didn't buy my Bimmer for the gas mileage either but that was a nice surprise when I saw how good it was...

[webster]

i just got back from a nearly 700 mile road trip, which included 2 stints of stop/go traffic jams, a good bit of crawling at < 5mph due to gravely/rocky/uneven dirt roads, and all other times i was seeing 75-80+ mph. i averaged 26.6mpg through it all. at one point west of San Antonio the speed limit on I-10 goes up to 80, so I was able to cruise at 85mph without fear of getting pulled over. engine was right around 3100 rpms at that speed. never had to downshift to pass :)

[az3579]

I didn't buy a BMW for gas mileage.

None of us did. :p


Back on topic...
I think we've proven that the engine isn't frail. Just how many stories of backed out oil pump nuts are there, really? Maybe a handful? Now let's compare that to how many people actually track their cars. Many, many, many more.

I don't hear about a backed out oil pump nut too often, honestly. Worrying about something like that is kind of like worrying about every little scratch or dent on the car; if you spend all your time worrying, you'll spend no time enjoying. Besides, the chances of it happening is slim, so go out and enjoy your car! If it bothers you that much, don't rev past 6k rpm.