I'm going to become a track rat

[M0nk3y]

Finally finished up my first HPDE yesterday at Mid-Ohio!

Caught 2 wet sessions in the AM and 2 dry sessions in the PM. The wet was an interesting experience, little to no traction certainly sums it up. But it was good experience.

There are plenty of areas to work on, obviously. China Beach, Madness, The Esses is a pretty tricky section to get it right. I was being a baby braking into China Beach...the first session I hit oil into the braking zone and it was not a fun experience. Kept it straight and all...just had the o-shi moment. It was still a little cold and the track wasn't completely dried up, so threshold braking wasn't really worked on at all

Overall though, It was really fun. I'm amazing at what type of grip is out there.

Here's my last session. Critique if you want.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf7N8Jdvz6U

[derbo]

Looks like you are having fun!!

Welcome to the club :)

[Rovert]

I can hear those brakes really working it!!!!!

[zhpnsnv]

Oh boy. You're bitten. Enjoy the ride, and as always, shiny side up!

I need to get myself re-bitten, but I don't see it happening for another couple of years.

[M3TA5IN]

Awesome man! I'm excited, have my first auto x next weekend with Audi. Just for some fun. Then first track day in November.

So jealous of your fun times you had!!

[brettbimmer]

Great to hear you had a good time Kyle! Hope you are able to get back out to the track before the snow starts flying.

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[M0nk3y]

Looks like you are having fun!!

Welcome to the club :)

Thanks!


I can hear those brakes really working it!!!!!

They held up really well. I wasn't even close to reaching the limit going into China Beach. For the speeds I was reaching it was biting really good. I was hitting the end 4th gear and pegging 130 towards the end of the day. If I brake later and have better exit. I'll easily be in 5th


Oh boy. You're bitten. Enjoy the ride, and as always, shiny side up!

I need to get myself re-bitten, but I don't see it happening for another couple of years.

As always! Thanks


Awesome man! I'm excited, have my first auto x next weekend with Audi. Just for some fun. Then first track day in November.

So jealous of your fun times you had!!

You'll have a blast. AutoX and track are completely different. Take my word on it!


Great to hear you had a good time Kyle! Hope you are able to get back out to the track before the snow starts flying.

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Probably won't happen this year, because of my volunteering though, I have a free track weekend upon return of next season! I get to eat the cost of a wheel bearing though...yeepie.

[Hornung418]

Finally let the Z4MC stretch her legs eh? Good for you! I'll be prepping for Summit Point next spring. Just need that LSD.

Horney...via TT.

[derbo]

the video looks like you can definitely brake later and get on the gas more! Overall good lines! Working on the braking and gas is the hardest part of track driving since it involves removing some fear out of your head for braking so late lol.

[M0nk3y]

Finally let the Z4MC stretch her legs eh? Good for you! I'll be prepping for Summit Point next spring. Just need that LSD.

Horney...via TT.

You'll have so much fun.


the video looks like you can definitely brake later and get on the gas more! Overall good lines! Working on the braking and gas is the hardest part of track driving since it involves removing some fear out of your head for braking so late lol.

It's crazy the grip it was out there, it's just something you gotta get use to. I know the RS3s like alot of slip angle to gain maximum grip....I really need to push it to even get close to the limit.

[zhpnsnv]

Finally let the Z4MC stretch her legs eh? Good for you! I'll be prepping for Summit Point next spring. Just need that LSD.

Horney...via TT.

No no, you want the LSD. It's not needed. The track hobby does a wonderful job of blurring the line between want and need.

[Hornung418]

2.93 open diff is killing me. R&P from e39 M5 is going into an e46 M3 rear end and all the bushings are going Poly. The subframe needs reinforced...has to come out sometime!

Horney...via TT.

[Oli77]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing.

[derbo]

It's crazy the grip it was out there, it's just something you gotta get use to. I know the RS3s like alot of slip angle to gain maximum grip....I really need to push it to even get close to the limit.

It's definitely something you will get use to and then complain about not having enough grip! I love my re11 and looking to try the Dunlop star specs next time around. I know one thing is for sure. No more going back to normal street tires!

Glad the track bug bit you. It's fun and I think more entertaining than autox. It is also more expensive :X



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[Mike V]

The Star Specs are great. I've been co-driving a buddy's M Coupe at autocrosses and those tires feel really good and are predictable.

[M0nk3y]

It's definitely something you will get use to and then complain about not having enough grip! I love my re11 and looking to try the Dunlop star specs next time around. I know one thing is for sure. No more going back to normal street tires!

Glad the track bug bit you. It's fun and I think more entertaining than autox. It is also more expensive :X

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Yea, I got nothing to complain about the RS3s. I took them off today and discovered OPR all over them!

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g135/1nFeCt1oN/2012-08-12_11-18-07_1181.jpg?t=1344787417

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g135/1nFeCt1oN/2012-08-12_11-18-43_871.jpg?t=1344787421

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g135/1nFeCt1oN/2012-08-12_11-19-12_243.jpg?t=1344787438


I actually calculated the cost versus seat time and track is cheaper than auto-x. It's just the upfront initial cost.

[derbo]

Those pic links are broken for me. ???

I didn't know auto-x more expensive? Do you have a breakdown on how you calculated it to be cheaper?

[Hermes]

I would probably agree on time cost with Kyle. For how much more track time you get vs a short autoX course I think it makes sense. Now you just need to buy a trailer like Brandon and go all out on your car

[M3TA5IN]

Those pic links are broken for me. ???

I didn't know auto-x more expensive? Do you have a breakdown on how you calculated it to be cheaper?

I believe he is referring to the amount of time you are actually behind the wheel driving. If you break it down, dollar per minute actually on course driving. A auto x run goes by super fast.

[M0nk3y]

Those pic links are broken for me. ???

I didn't know auto-x more expensive? Do you have a breakdown on how you calculated it to be cheaper?

For me, typical autocross runs are 6. Lets just say the course is 60 seconds, which is quite long. We usually are around 50ish.

Anyways, price to run is $30 an autocross. That's $5 per minute

Track, the cost for me to run was $209 IIRC (even though I got to run for free that's a different story). I got 4 sessions of 20 minutes, which turns to be $2.61 per minute. It's a lot cheaper on a per minute basis.

Pictures should be working, it's on a photobucket account


I would probably agree on time cost with Kyle. For how much more track time you get vs a short autoX course I think it makes sense. Now you just need to buy a trailer like Brandon and go all out on your car

Sooner or later, that'll be a plan. However, it's not going to be with this car probably. I'll end up finding another Z4M with more miles (because miles doesn't really matter when you're tracking) and do a whole strip and go balls out with it. Or it may be with this car. Who knows. That'll be a long ways away though

[derbo]

That make sense. A few tracks out here like Laguna and Sears Point cost over $300 to do a HPDE. These typically run 5 20min sessions. Even then it's about $3/min.


Sounds like you are getting into it! I would love to find a z4M to do some dedicated track racing and leave my zhp back to daily duty only.


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[M0nk3y]

That make sense. A few tracks out here like Laguna and Sears Point cost over $300 to do a HPDE. These typically run 5 20min sessions. Even then it's about $3/min.


Sounds like you are getting into it! I would love to find a z4M to do some dedicated track racing and leave my zhp back to daily duty only.


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Gotcha.

Mid-Ohio weekend (8 sessions) is $359. So it becomes even cheaper.

Im definitely hooked. I still got a free.weekend to do, so im already planning on Mid-Ohio next year

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[derbo]

Wait till you get the modbug and want to upgrade to more track oriented stuff. :D!! I know I went with track pads and can't go back to regular pads anymore LOL.

[az3579]

[QUOTE=M0nk3y;196603]For me, typical autocross runs are 6. Lets just say the course is 60 seconds, which is quite long. We usually are around 50ish.

Anyways, price to run is $30 an autocross. That's $5 per minute

Track, the cost for me to run was $209 IIRC (even though I got to run for free that's a different story). I got 4 sessions of 20 minutes, which turns to be $2.61 per minute. It's a lot cheaper on a per minute basis.

Pictures should be working, it's on a photobucket account



Sooner or later, that'll be a plan. However, it's not going to be with this car probably. I'll end up finding another Z4M with more miles (because miles doesn't really matter when you're tracking) and do a whole strip and go balls out with it. Or it may be with this car. Who knows. That'll be a long ways away though

Oh, but there are many other factors to consider as far as track pricing goes, not just the cost to register. Let's take my home track for example.

I run on Lime Rock Park, which is about $310 to register for one day. That includes (4) 20-minute sessions. This is probably one of the MOST expensive tracks to run on in the country, I'm told.

$310 may not sound bad, but consider that after about 3 track days, your tires are toast to the point of failing tech inspection. A set of tires worth buying is approximately $700, add mounting and you're up to probably $850 on the high side. Divide $850 by (3) and you're around $284 added to the $310. Total so far = $594 for a day.

Your car has to get inspected. For me, my shop charges me an hour labor, or $89. It costs money for gas, so I figure probably about 3 gallons used to get there at $4.29/gal is about $13. The amount of fuel used on the track calculates to about 11mpg at this particular track, and I do about 90 miles on track as a rough estimate... $36. Then I have to drive home, which is another $13.

You know that leak you have to fix? Well it's time to correct that sonofabitch, which is whatever labor the shop charges you if you don't do your work work. Brake pads are probably toast after 3 track days as well, though this depends on how hot it is. For my case, they would last approximately 3 track days a year, so another $60 or so for a set of fronts (rears will still be okay), so add $20 per track day.

Total costs at this point at a minimum are: $765.


These are all the hidden costs of tracking. Control arms will go faster, as will other suspension bits. I'm suffering through this one right now...
Track... ain't... cheap. You gotta pay to play.






And it is the best money I've ever spent in my life.

[M3TA5IN]

You forgot all the other normal wear and tear, sleeping arrangements if you plan to do both days and you are traveling, tow rig maintenance and gas if you're a baller with a rig.

Lots more little things but I believe Kyle was simple comparing seat time vs all the other cost.

No doubt auto x is significantly cheaper than doing the same amount of track days.

I'm hoping to go to summit in november.

$215 a day = $430. I won't even bother adding in gas, food, maintence to prep, hotel cost and wear on the car of two days tracking.

I went to the auto x in DC an hour and a half away.

Total cost = $80. That was weekend scca membership, gas, entry, and food for 2 people.

A guy I grew up with competitively raced scca club racing. His yearly budget was $40,000 for racing and we lived 20 mins from the track (heartland park where nationals use to be). This was also in the 90s




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[derbo]

[QUOTE=M0nk3y;196577]


Oh, but there are many other factors to consider as far as track pricing goes, not just the cost to register. Let's take my home track for example.

I run on Lime Rock Park, which is about $310 to register for one day. That includes (4) 20-minute sessions. This is probably one of the MOST expensive tracks to run on in the country, I'm told.

$310 may not sound bad, but consider that after about 3 track days, your tires are toast to the point of failing tech inspection. A set of tires worth buying is approximately $700, add mounting and you're up to probably $850 on the high side. Divide $850 by (3) and you're around $284 added to the $310. Total so far = $594 for a day.

Your car has to get inspected. For me, my shop charges me an hour labor, or $89. It costs money for gas, so I figure probably about 3 gallons used to get there at $4.29/gal is about $13. The amount of fuel used on the track calculates to about 11mpg at this particular track, and I do about 90 miles on track as a rough estimate... $36. Then I have to drive home, which is another $13.

You know that leak you have to fix? Well it's time to correct that sonofabitch, which is whatever labor the shop charges you if you don't do your work work. Brake pads are probably toast after 3 track days as well, though this depends on how hot it is. For my case, they would last approximately 3 track days a year, so another $60 or so for a set of fronts (rears will still be okay), so add $20 per track day.

Total costs at this point at a minimum are: $765.


These are all the hidden costs of tracking. Control arms will go faster, as will other suspension bits. I'm suffering through this one right now...
Track... ain't... cheap. You gotta pay to play.






And it is the best money I've ever spent in my life.



Well said.

Sears point here is close to $350 if not more on certain days and its a 4x20min session day as well. The closest gas station is close to 10miles out, so you have to use their pump on the lot and their gas isn't cheap at over $5/gallon. I usually race with a full tank during the day and get it close to empty at the end of the day.


Now you said brakes eat up in 3 track days? That's pretty crazy. I know my tracks out here are alot less brake heavy (except laguna seca) and they usually can last at least 6-7 HPDE days. (3 weekends). I do notice the 135i brakes do last longer than the 330i stock brakes. Carbotech XP10s for the front 135i is $254 for the axle. Tires are a major cost to the track days. I've been running 255/35/18 RE11s all around at $307 a piece from tirerack. :facepalm I need to switch to 17s!!

Luckily for the events I've been to, the host company allow self-tech inspections. However like you said, any leaks must be fully addressed. You don't want to be THAT guy that spilled oil all over the track and messed up the schedule for the day.

Hidden costs are definitely there. I bet Auto-X has hidden costs too. I bet tires get eaten up by crappy parking lots too and not to mention no embankments on corners is tough on tires.


The biggest risk at track days is when something fails and you go off-roading, it can lead to totaling your car.


I don't think I can ever get into Auto-x since I've gotten the taste of track days. The hobby is expensive but I do love it just like B.

[M0nk3y]

Our tech inspections are on grid where I run with, so no additional cost there.

Mid-Ohio you can camp on-site, so it's an easy $0 there as well.

Autocross chews tires up a lot, I need to flip my tires for next season as my outside are worn alot. That was about 8 auto-x events, right around ~50 minutes of total driving time.

After my track day, I did have failed control arms, and had to replace both. Thankfully I had CPO still or else it would of been an easy $1000 repair.

At Mid-Ohio, I got 8mpg. I burned through 3/4 of a tank in a day with 80 minutes of driving time. During Auto-X I have to idle my car inbetween runs to cool the oil down and keep the engine warm, and I start at a 1/2 tank and end with a 1/4 tank (to prevent fuel starvation). I get the lowest MPG here that my stalk tells me at 6 MPG. Once again, figure 1/4 each time I autocross time 8, that's 2 tanks (24 gallons) worth of gas burnt for 50 minutes of run time.

I still argue that Auto-X is more expensive, because in reality it is. Sure, it's less harsh on brake components, for example. But wear and tear items IMO are exaggerated more with Auto-X versus Track. Track is smooth, where as autocross you're transferring weight every 3-4 seconds back and forth.

Either way, we all know what we are into here.

[M3TA5IN]

In the end you gotta pay to play for anything. As long as you're having a blast that is all that matters :)

At least it isn't sky diving, that's the most expensive 50 seconds I have ever done!!!! I quickly wanted to become qualified and everything and quickly realized tracking was cheaper lol.


Sent from my fancy city machine.

[bcleaver]

I think that per minute of seat time you would have a hard time finding autox to be more cost effective than track days. I only account for wear parts (tires, brakes, gas and entry fees) in my calculation and come up with about $9 per min for track and $15 for autox. I do believe that track days are harder on the car so there are additional costs with tracking for that but they're so hard to account for I didn't bother.

However, when talking about costs you can go out and have a good time autocrossing all day for about $90 (including wear on disposable parts). The same for a single track day will cost over $500. So as far as approachable racing it's hard to compare from an absolute cost perspective.

Either way, they're both fun, that's for sure.