Braided (Stainless) Steel Brake Lines?

[Crickett]

Is there a general consensus on what steel brake lines are the ones to go with? Or any to explicitly stay away from? StopTech's (http://www.turnermotorsport.com/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=175&SEName=e46-stainless-steel-brake-line-set-dot-approved) seem to be a popular choice . . .

[derbo]

Stoptech is a good brand. I use Bavauto rear lines with ECS front lines. I prefer the ones with the plastic coating on the outside of the SS line to prevent abrasions with other parts in the fender area.

[danewilson77]

I like the ones, ECSTuning offers.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[JupiterBMW]

I like this thread as I will be purchasing soon to go along with my new brakes. I used to always use Goodridge back in the day, never had problems with them. But, I too prefer those with the rubber coating over the braiding to prevent chaffing.

Recommendations are welcome!

[BCS_ZHP]

I've bought SS lines from Turner, ECSTuning, & StopTech, here's the installation review:

- Turner's lines did not include the anti-chafe rubber grommets to secure it in the line brackets; cut my old ones off and superglued them on the new lines; braided with clear covering; perfect fit length-wise
- ECSTuning's lines do not secure tightly in the rear bracket; did include new rubber grommets on the lines; braided with red covering looks good; lines are not the perfect length, you make it work but there's some extra length
- StopTech lines included new anti-chafe rubber grommets front & rear; secure into front and rear brackets perfectly; perfect length; line is braided with clear coating

Price difference - ECS was $90-ish, StopTech was $110, Turner was $120-ish.

Get the StopTech's from Ray (Smilez), he'll cut you a break when you buy a whole package from him.

[JupiterBMW]

:thumbsup Thanks for the review. Just to clarify though, they all have the rubberized coating over the SS braiding, just not all include the little round grommets...?

[Crickett]

I've bought SS lines from Turner, ECSTuning, & StopTech, here's the installation review:

- Turner's lines did not include the anti-chafe rubber grommets to secure it in the line brackets; cut my old ones off and superglued them on the new lines; braided with clear covering; perfect fit length-wise
- ECSTuning's lines do not secure tightly in the rear bracket; did include new rubber grommets on the lines; braided with red covering looks good; lines are not the perfect length, you make it work but there's some extra length
- StopTech lines included new anti-chafe rubber grommets front & rear; secure into front and rear brackets perfectly; perfect length; line is braided with clear coating

Price difference - ECS was $90-ish, StopTech was $110, Turner was $120-ish.

Thanks for the reviews, but I'm a bit confused: doesn't Turner sell the StopTech ones? Or are they made for Turner, like "Turner Motorsports by StopTech", so they're slightly different?


Get the StopTech's from Ray (Smilez), he'll cut you a break when you buy a whole package from him.
Good idea! I'll shoot him a PM!

[BCS_ZHP]

Last year about this time, I got a Turner set-up with Brmbo slotted rotors, Mintex ceramic pads, and no-name-on-the-bag SS lines, there were no rubber round grommets on those lines. Anyway, Turner is more expensive then Ray individually or as a package.

[cakM3]

For the ZHP, I initially went with the UUC stainless steel braided lines then got the BMW Performance BBKs which came with their own set of stainless steel braided lines so I now have a mix of both UUC lines (in back) and the BMW Performace lines (front).

[Smilez]

Thanks for the reviews, but I'm a bit confused: doesn't Turner sell the StopTech ones? Or are they made for Turner, like "Turner Motorsports by StopTech", so they're slightly different?

sometimes they have other stainless steal lines with no name, that company can name their own.

Good idea! I'll shoot him a PM!


thanks

[JupiterBMW]

I just wanted to update this thread... I purchased the brake kit from Turner, and the lines they sell with their kits are the StopTech ones. Just to verify, these lines look great. They have a clear rubberized coating the length of the line to protect the steel braiding (and prevent chaffing), and they also came with the appropriate rubber grommets for the front lines, as well as the metal bracket retainers for the brackets on the rear control arms...

I'm very pleased with the product!

[terraphantm]

IMO SS lines are a bit of a waste. I cut open my 330's OEM lines after replacing them -- found that there was thick metal braiding underneath the rubber. So I don't see why aftermarket lines would be any better.

[danewilson77]

I think aesthetically speaking they look great. I've heard the ss lines flex less under braking allowing for more "accurate" braking. Never notice that in a dd imho.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[terraphantm]

I think aesthetically speaking they look great. I've heard the ss lines flex less under braking allowing for more "accurate" braking. Never notice that in a dd imho.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

If the factory lines had no metal underneath their rubber, I'd agree with the usual theory about flex. But at least on our BMWs, the factory lines definitely have metal braids already

Can't argue with the looks though

[zj96sc]

All brake lines are braided metal somewhere in the stackup - common misconception I think that "braided lines" are adding metal braiding. rubber hose alone could never hold the pressures of a braking system.

That's not to say that aftermarket lines don't offer a more predictable response or some felt improvement - not sure why they perform better but I've had enough people with first hand experience testify to their merits that I'll believe it.

[330i ZHP]

stoptech

[HokieZHP]

I have bimmerworld brake lines. No complaints. Look great and good fit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AZBP2]

Gents; are there any DIY threads for replacing the brakes lines? I bought the Stop Tech SS lines and looking forward to the change. Thanks and stay cool (flipping Houston is burning up!!) :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John in VA]

It's straightforward. A flare nut wrench is helpful to avoid rounding off the connection. Do you have brake fluid on hand?
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?335348-Stainless-Steel-Brake-Line-DIY

[BMWCurves]

Be sure to clean the area where the hard lines meet the soft lines or you might knock some grit into your new SS lines.

[704sw]

Don’t forget to get a bleeder (or a friend to help you).

Lines were pretty easy to change, assuming you don’t have a Canadian car with rusty fittings...
https://media.giphy.com/media/nDbpk7leGbu12/giphy.gif

[AZBP2]

Yes on the brake fluid. Good tip on cleaning the lines to avoid dirt in the lines and buying a brake service kit 1 from ECS to help. I also have a friend to help me. Thanks for the advice and I will let you know how it turns out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AZBP2]

Oh, I forgot: the car is a originally from Burbank Ca, and now lives in Texas... no rust. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[charter21p5]

I have used ECStuning on several cars and really like them.

I ordered Stoptechs for the ZHP because ECS didn’t have their brand immediately available and i had to take the car out of town due to a family emergency.

The stoptechs are nice but one of the lines on the front is bending almost like it is slightly twisted causing the rubber grommet to continuously come out of the brake line bracket attached to the shock.

I used a twist tie to keep it in place however i find it strange this is occurring on the car.

Maybe i have to go back and re-install the line?

[t.er]

Bringing this back from the dead. Just installed stoptech lines, did anyone have any issues with the metal retaining clips in the rear being loose? Taking them out required a bit wrestling with the channellocks, when I re-installed them, they went in by hand and are very loosely held.

Edit: I did bend the retaining clips a bit, and it's better. But still nowhere near as secure as the OEM lines were

[ZHPizza]

Bringing this back from the dead. Just installed stoptech lines, did anyone have any issues with the metal retaining clips in the rear being loose? Taking them out required a bit wrestling with the channellocks, when I re-installed them, they went in by hand and are very loosely held.

Edit: I did bend the retaining clips a bit, and it's better. But still nowhere near as secure as the OEM lines wereYep the ones I got from FCP Euro were a terrible fit in the rear. I had to make a spacer with some scrap plastic to shove in there and get them tight.

[Galapolis]

I've got the TechnaFit from FCP as well, same loose fit in the rear. I just left it as is though.

[ZHPizza]

Yep the ones I got from FCP Euro were a terrible fit in the rear. I had to make a spacer with some scrap plastic to shove in there and get them tight.Found the pics of what I did to mitigate

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/dc17ab80163467b9ddc26c16c8e21fea.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/ad27a5a35b7ce206db60e5fe9be91526.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/c3e58fa6929d414da62c32c5901da223.jpg

[t.er]

Found the pics of what I did to mitigate

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/dc17ab80163467b9ddc26c16c8e21fea.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/ad27a5a35b7ce206db60e5fe9be91526.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/c3e58fa6929d414da62c32c5901da223.jpgOmg that's hilariously bad. Yeah the groove in the Stoptechs aren't that wide, just slightly more such that a bit of massaging on the retaining bracket is good enough to hold em in

[t.er]

I've got the TechnaFit from FCP as well, same loose fit in the rear. I just left it as is though.


Yep the ones I got from FCP Euro were a terrible fit in the rear. I had to make a spacer with some scrap plastic to shove in there and get them tight.

Actually, guys how was pedal feel after swapping the lines? I feel like mine is the same, or possibly even slightly worse than before. I just did the regular 2-person bleed procedure twice all-round and there were no bubbles. The past few times when flushing my fluid I used my power bleeder, and pedal feel remained consistent, but I didn't swap any parts. I didn't run the reservoir dry so I don't think I'll need INPA to flush the ABS unit, but that may be my next course of action if a few hard ABS stops doesn't solve it

[ZHPizza]

Actually, guys how was pedal feel after swapping the lines? I feel like mine is the same, or possibly even slightly worse than before. I just did the regular 2-person bleed procedure twice all-round and there were no bubbles. The past few times when flushing my fluid I used my power bleeder, and pedal feel remained consistent, but I didn't swap any parts. I didn't run the reservoir dry so I don't think I'll need INPA to flush the ABS unit, but that may be my next course of action if a few hard ABS stops doesn't solve it

Fyi I definitely wouldn't expect them to feel noticeably better than the OE lines, which are braided under the rubber sleeve.

Did you tap the calipers with a rubber hammer while you were bleeding? That's made a big difference for me at times.

Even with that, though, I haven't been able to get good pedal feel since the first time I swapped the lines. I changed to Garagistic lines (cuz red) when I installed rebuilt calipers and still have a soft pedal.

The INPA bleed definitely helped - got a lot of hidden bubbles out - but it still isn't quite there. I have ECS bronze caliper bushings waiting to install in hopes that the cheap rubber bushings on my centric rebuilds are to blame.

I also found this screenshot that I saved in 2018 after taking the pics above so maybe that's worth a shot?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/7965d9a1f9302de19a39232f7fe3b7c1.jpg

[Galapolis]

Actually, guys how was pedal feel after swapping the lines?

It feels the same up to about 50% brake pressure, after that it is noticeably stiffer and very constant. 75% is always 75% now, and not 60% sometimes or 68% other times.

[t.er]

Did you tap the calipers with a rubber hammer while you were bleeding? That's made a big difference for me at times.

The INPA bleed definitely helped - got a lot of hidden bubbles out - but it still isn't quite there.

I also found this screenshot that I saved in 2018 after taking the pics above so maybe that's worth a shot?


No I didn't tap the calipers, just plain-old 2-person bleed. I think I'll have to try to re-bleed the calipers with the tapping, and bleed the ABS & DSC units. Also omg this reminds me of the old SAE Baja team at my uni - they legit have a brake bleeder dildo, they'd hold it up to the caliper to shake air out, very effective :blushing


It feels the same up to about 50% brake pressure, after that it is noticeably stiffer and very constant. 75% is always 75% now, and not 60% sometimes or 68% other times.

Yeah this makes me think there's likely some air in my system. The first 50% is definitely not as stiff, and I find I'm pressing the pedal a lot more than before for the same amount of stopping power. During hard braking it's decent though, good stopping power and a relatively stiff pedal, but you do have to press pretty hard and far in.

[t.er]

Just re-bled the brakes today. Bit the bullet and bought a replacement Motive bleeder adapter, put silicone paste on the threads of all bleeder screws to prevent air getting past the threads, used INPA to cycle the ABS/DSC unit, and used a mallet on the calipers in an attempt to jiggle out any trapped bubbles. I believe the brakes are ever so slightly better, though there is definitely still more initial pedal travel than before the new pads and rotors. At this point I'm fairly confident there are no bubbles - even with the re-bleed, I didn't see any.

Initial pedal travel to stopping power isn't like how it was before, but pedal firmness is excellent when you step on it, with good stopping power. Perhaps the stiffness of the HPS pad material is lower than standard street pads? Either way, I think I'll be leaving it as-is

[Galapolis]

Initial pedal travel to stopping power isn't like how it was before, but pedal firmness is excellent when you step on it, with good stopping power. Perhaps the stiffness of the HPS pad material is lower than standard street pads? Either way, I think I'll be leaving it as-is

Ohhhhh that's an easy one, I forgot you had HPS pads now. Bro those pads straight up don't work when cold. That's why you are having to press the pedal more now. They take a lot of braking to get up to temp (which is kind of the point of them). The last time I got mine to maximum efficiency was on Tail of the Dragon. Even on my recent trip to Diamondback I wasn't able to get them up to temp. On the plus side, brake fade is literally a thing of the past.

[t.er]

Ohhhhh that's an easy one, I forgot you had HPS pads now. Bro those pads straight up don't work when cold. That's why you are having to press the pedal more now. They take a lot of braking to get up to temp (which is kind of the point of them). The last time I got mine to maximum efficiency was on Tail of the Dragon. Even on my recent trip to Diamondback I wasn't able to get them up to temp. On the plus side, brake fade is literally a thing of the past.

Huh, I'd expect that from something like a DTC-60, but wasn't aware that HPS would make that much of a difference in street driving. Did you experience the same when you swapped from street pads to HPS?

HPS pads seem like a good compromise between DTC-60 (which I was contemplating getting) and street pads, which I'd have to run both and swap them out every track day. But given I have no track experience, and for the convenience I decided to run HPS and avoid having to do that. Looking to start lapping this summer, and it sounds like they'll last a whole lot longer than stock pads, but I don't expect them to not fade after a while. But by the time that happens I'll probably be pulling into the pits for a bit of rest, and to review lap times + footage

[Galapolis]

Huh, I'd expect that from something like a DTC-60, but wasn't aware that HPS would make that much of a difference in street driving. Did you experience the same when you swapped from street pads to HPS?

HPS pads seem like a good compromise between DTC-60 (which I was contemplating getting) and street pads, which I'd have to run both and swap them out every track day. But given I have no track experience, and for the convenience I decided to run HPS and avoid having to do that. Looking to start lapping this summer, and it sounds like they'll last a whole lot longer than stock pads, but I don't expect them to not fade after a while. But by the time that happens I'll probably be pulling into the pits for a bit of rest, and to review lap times + footage

I actually had Cool Carbon ST pads before my HPS. Despite being a street + track compound, the Cool Carbons were hopeless as daily drivers. No bite at all even when slightly warm. Hence why I switched to the HPS. They are definitely better than the Cool Carbons when cold, but even then you can't expect the same bite out of them as street pads until they get decently warm. I still think the HPS are the right move for your situation. It might not feel like it right now, but if my ST experience is anything to go by, the DTC-60 would very likely have been even worse than what you are experiencing now.

[t.er]

I actually had Cool Carbon ST pads before my HPS. Despite being a street + track compound, the Cool Carbons were hopeless as daily drivers. No bite at all even when slightly warm. Hence why I switched to the HPS. They are definitely better than the Cool Carbons when cold, but even then you can't expect the same bite out of them as street pads until they get decently warm. I still think the HPS are the right move for your situation. It might not feel like it right now, but if my ST experience is anything to go by, the DTC-60 would very likely have been even worse than what you are experiencing now.

Makes sense, thanks for the heads up. At least now I can be pretty confident my fluid is good to go. Looking forward to getting out on track this season!