What to look for when buying a ZHP

[TheHyeOne]

Thinking about buying a ZHP soon, since I cracked my surrent VW oil pan and fixing it will cost near 1K.

Looking at one that is bieng sold as a privet seller, so not from a dealership.
Searched the forum to see if there was anything similar to this, could not find anything.

So personally I would like to know what to look for when buying a ZHP, anything specifiic? Is it worth it to take it to a mechanic and do a check up on it before buying it?

Is there a certain milage that if the car goes over, you do want to get it checked up at a mechanic?
Stuff like that.

Thank
Tony A.

[Newjack]

The ZHP is a slightly upgraded version of the E46. So checking this wiki HERE (http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php?title=BMW_E46) will give you tons of information about what the common failures of the E46 are and what to look out for.

Dane Wilson has been nice enough to create a couple threads dedicated to the reliabilty of the ZHP as well as DIY guides and walkthroughs on certain procedures.

BMW E46 Reliability (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?973-Bmw-e46-3-series-330-zhp-reliabilty)

E46 Words of Wisdom (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?2454-E46-Words-of-Wisdom-For-the-New-Guy)

BMW E46 ZHP DIY Preventative maintenance (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1830-BMW-E46-ZHP-DIY-and-Preventative-maintenance) <<This thread is very useful. If you are looking at a potential car and it has a couple things wrong with it, this thread probably has the solution, and shows you the difficulty of the fix. Some problems might seem like a major hassle, but are a very easy DIY item.

ZHP Engine Parts and pictures (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?588-E46-BMW-330-ZHP-Engine-parts-and-pictures) <<This is another way to familiarize yourself with the insides of a ZHP before purchasing one. This way you can visually see the parts and know ahead of time where everything is when reading a DIY guide.



In a nutshell, do your cooling system before 100k miles. It is a known failure point on these cars and if the expansion tank cracks, your car will puke coolant all over the highway and can easily overheat your engine. A fairly easy DIY.

I would recommend having your mechanic take a look at the car before a purchase. Just for peace of mind.


Good luck finding your ZHP!

[cakM3]

Rob covered pretty much everything you need to look for when buying a new ZHP....great job Rob! :thumbsup


One thing to add OP is to make sure you get a PPI (Pre Purchase Inspection) done when you do find a ZHP that you think you want to purchase (what Rob alluded to above). It will cost you somewhere around $120 to get this done and you can either use the dealership or a reliable indy shop to get this done. Doing this will give you a better idea as to the actual condition of your car.

[danewilson77]

This may help as well.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5828

Sent from Corolla, NC USA = Party

[llll1l1ll]

A PPI will cover most things, but see what kind of repair records the owner might have. That will give some good insight into how well the car was cared for. Although not a total deal breaker if the car still has the original cooling system, it is just one extra thing that might fail.

[nike001]

Hey Tony, I'm from the Wilkes-Barre area.. so if you find any that are around up here.. I'd be more than happy to go with you to check it out for you and offer you some advice on it, as I do know a bit how a ZHP should drive ;)

zhp43867 (Derek) is in the West Chester area.. and I'm sure he'd be happy to help you out as well.

Good luck!

[TheHyeOne]

Damn.... that's a ton of stuff to read.
Kinda scares me from buying a ~65k ZHP....
Not the greatest hands on guy either, can change breaks and oil and simple stuff, but I doubt I can do all that.
Deff would want to do PPI after reading all of this.

In the Vanos system link I went to, it says 3-series E46 98-05. However I would guess the 06 Coupe should also be included in it?
http://www.beisansystems.com/

Nike001, Thank you very much for the offer. The car is in VA so it will be around 3 hour drive.

[johnrando]

Yes, much of the BMW info for E46's says to '05, as the '06 started the E90 class vehicles, but coupes/verts were still produced into '06. E46 sedan production stopped in '05.

BTW, it's a lot of info but really it's about the cooling system (as those fail), and the VANOS as they degrade, but it's not a "failure" situation per se. Those are just the primary things to look for... everything else is the same as other cars (get maint records, PPI, etc). Besides, it's not like those are really expensive fixes. Good luck!

[TheHyeOne]

Well my areas of concerns are the cooling systems, VANOS, pulleys and suspension.
I see the costs for the cooling system and VANOS but no labor time on these.

There also was no cost for the pulleys and suspensions.
I can only imagine these are expensive changes.

Another example to put out, I am sure some buyers would cross shop a ZHP against a M3.
Would an M3 have these same exact issues?

[nike001]

Well my areas of concerns are the cooling systems, VANOS, pulleys and suspension.
I see the costs for the cooling system and VANOS but no labor time on these.

There also was no cost for the pulleys and suspensions.
I can only imagine these are expensive changes.

Another example to put out, I am sure some buyers would cross shop a ZHP against a M3.
Would an M3 have these same exact issues?

Cooling systems aren't that hard.. VANOS isn't hard, just labor intensive (3-5hrs) and a stock suspension should be good at 65k. Mine lated until about 120k until I felt like it needed to be replaced.

An M3 wouldn't really have the same issues. They need valve adjustments at predetermined intervals, and their cooling system is beefed up over the normal non-m models. In general terms, the M3 is a lot more 'built' than a normal non-m, since ///M models are made to be... well.. beat.

[danewilson77]

Would an M3 have these same exact issues?

No.

Sent from Corolla, NC USA = Party

[TheHyeOne]

FYI, front control arm bushings where done on the car I am looking at. That was the only thing that was mentioned.

[johnrando]

Not sure I understand the issue wrt pulleys. Also, ZHP suspension is like any other, they will wear with age. The control arm bushings (cab)s tend to go out a little quicker though.

[TheHyeOne]

Isnt replaying all 3 pulleys expensive and difficult? That is my concern with it.

[johnrando]

No, but why would you need to do that... you thinking preventative maint?

[TheHyeOne]

Cause of this site. Says pulleys should be replaces at around 100K. I know 65K is not that close to it, but yeah thinking long term if I am to get it.
http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?5828-What-to-look-out-for-when-buying-a-BMW.

[BCS_ZHP]

TheHyeOne,
If the car is in VA, I can cover the northern side of the state and Dane covers the mid-eastern side of the state, let us know where it's located and one of us can probably go take a look at it for you. For instance, I have to take my daughter to Charlottesville this Sunday for soccer camp, a 2 hour drive, if it's anywhere along this route then I can check it out for you.
Bruce

[Newjack]

Cause of this site. Says pulleys should be replaces at around 100K. I know 65K is not that close to it, but yeah thinking long term if I am to get it.
http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?5828-What-to-look-out-for-when-buying-a-BMW.

Pulleys are super easy to change out. They are also fairly inexpensive.

Not to mention, you will know when your pulleys need to be changed. They will make a squealing/screeching noise when starting up the car and idling. Or you can just remove the serpentine belt (again very easy to do) and just spin the pulleys. If it is smooth and doesn't want to spin very much, the pulley is good. If you spin the pulley, and it just keeps spinning forever and sounds like a worn roller skate, change it!


As far as maintenance problems with the ZHP, it doesn't have anything odd on the list. It ages just like other cars do. Around 100K is when multiple items might need replacing (as would any car at 100k). So don't freak out, everything is documented and if you feel unsure, just do a little reading.

Unlike other cars, the ZHP has it's own dedicated forum full of wonderful people that are willing to help you out before they even know your name.

We can give you advice and share stories about our cars that give valuable insight to problems we might have in the future, or mod items we want to take care of later.

Just don't get a ZHP because you think it is something special. Because it is most certainly not a special car. :thumbsup

[llll1l1ll]

I can volunteer services to check out cars in the greater Bethesda area and occasionally Frederick.

[midlandtech]

I can volunteer services to check out cars in the greater Bethesda area and occasionally Frederick.

I can also look at cars in the Kansas city area if your search brings you out here


~Steve
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheHyeOne]

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=19063&endYear=2006&modelCode1=330CI&sortBy=mileageDESC&showcaseOwnerId=65227599&startYear=2004&makeCode1=BMW&transmissionCode=MAN&searchRadius=300&listingId=323928413&Log=0

Thats the car I am currently looking at, in Alexandria, VA 22312.

[TheHyeOne]

And is it wrong if I think they are special cars? lol

I mean I have read up on all the differences between the ZHP and standard 330, so I know that much.

[johnrando]

This should answer your question. :)

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?983-Nough-Said-My-BMW-330-ZHP-Is-Not-Special-%28a-video-by-Kayger12%29/page3

[nike001]

And is it wrong if I think they are special cars? lol

I mean I have read up on all the differences between the ZHP and standard 330, so I know that much.

I think a lot of ZHP owners like to stay humble about it and say it's not special. But I don't know, I think they're special. Made for people who wanted an 4-door M3.. but they had to settle on a couple things. I know that I wouldn't want to buy a normal 330 and have to upgrade bumpers, gloss shadowline, diff, tranny, flywheel, cams, a tune, interior, suspension and other little odds and ends..

To me, the ZHP is pretty much modded exactly how I'd want an e46 to be. Except for the lack of an LSD.

[TheHyeOne]

This should answer your question. :)

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?983-Nough-Said-My-BMW-330-ZHP-Is-Not-Special-%28a-video-by-Kayger12%29/page3

Yeah i saw this a while ago it is funny :)

[TheHyeOne]

I think a lot of ZHP owners like to stay humble about it and say it's not special. But I don't know, I think they're special. Made for people who wanted an 4-door M3.. but they had to settle on a couple things. I know that I wouldn't want to buy a normal 330 and have to upgrade bumpers, gloss shadowline, diff, tranny, flywheel, cams, a tune, interior, suspension and other little odds and ends..

To me, the ZHP is pretty much modded exactly how I'd want an e46 to be. Except for the lack of an LSD.

Totally agreed with the LSD part

[TheHyeOne]

When buying a car from PA, we have Auto Tag places where we can take the car and get everything done correctly.

What can be done in VA? It does not seem like they have an Auto Tag place.
I will also look this up, but thought if someone had direct experience with this, they can lay it down correctly.

[CERF04ZHP]

I think a lot of ZHP owners like to stay humble about it and say it's not special. But I don't know, I think they're special. Made for people who wanted an 4-door M3.. but they had to settle on a couple things. I know that I wouldn't want to buy a normal 330 and have to upgrade bumpers, gloss shadowline, diff, tranny, flywheel, cams, a tune, interior, suspension and other little odds and ends..

To me, the ZHP is pretty much modded exactly how I'd want an e46 to be. Except for the lack of an LSD.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[TheHyeOne]

When buying a car from PA, we have Auto Tag places where we can take the car and get everything done correctly.

What can be done in VA? It does not seem like they have an Auto Tag place.
I will also look this up, but thought if someone had direct experience with this, they can lay it down correctly.

Never mind, seems simple. Get a Bill of Sale, and go to a DMV. Thats seems to be it.

[BCS_ZHP]

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=19063&endYear=2006&modelCode1=330CI&sortBy=mileageDESC&showcaseOwnerId=65227599&startYear=2004&makeCode1=BMW&transmissionCode=MAN&searchRadius=300&listingId=323928413&Log=0

Thats the car I am currently looking at, in Alexandria, VA 22312.

theHyeOne,
Is the owner of this car named Leighton? If so, I drove the car about a year ago when it had about 10K miles less. If not, send me his contact info and I can go check it out for you tomorrow.
Bruce

[TheHyeOne]

Yup, thats him. Link to the car below
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=19063&endYear=2006&modelCode1=330CI&sortBy=mileageDESC&showcaseOwnerId=65227599&startYear=2004&makeCode1=BMW&transmissionCode=MAN&searchRadius=300&listingId=323928413&Log=0

When you saw it, and drove it, what was ur impressions? I am guessing you did not end up buying it?

[BCS_ZHP]

TheHyeOne,
I first looked at this car in May 2011 -- yes, 15 months ago, i think he was asking $23K. At that time I had a ZHP with steptronic and wanted a manual. Leighton's car was clean, anticepticly clean inside, and appeared to be well taken care of cosmetically. However, he was pretty firm on his asking price and refused to start the negotiation dance which is part of what I enjoy in any car transaction. He also said he was from a car dealership family so if he couldn't get what he wanted for it, he would keep it or have the family business sell it. Was obviously in no hurry or under any pressure to sell, so I moved on.

Then in Jan of this year I went to look at a ZHP conv in Alexandria, that owner had ordered a new M5 and was awaiting its arrival. Someone offered him more money than I so didn't get that car. But during the test drive back into his parking garage, I passed Leighton's car and later sent him an email inquiring about his car again. He wasn't actively trying to sell it in Jan but said he let it go for $22K, maybe $21K. I told him the market had dropped at least 10% below that so he said he'd just keep the car and drive it some more. So here we are another half year later and he's come down another $1K, obviously still not interested in a quick sale.

Its clean and has been garaged, so what bugged me on this car other than his high price? He's the 3rd owner and The records he has show the only maintenance done on the car is the minimal amount recommended by the dealer. I told him last year he was coming upon the point from a mileage & time viewpoint where he would need FCABs (he states he did that last summer), a cooling system refresh, and belts. He refused to believe it needed anything and we agreed to disagree.

It's a pretty car, sparkling graphite with black leather but in my opinion, a bit overpriced. However, lower mileage ZHPs in great condition are becoming harder to find. If you'd like me to take a look at it this weekend, just say so and I can do it. But be forewarned he's pretty firm on his price even if I were to find some things wrong with it. I guess you could always tell him to fix any of those things under his non-transferable warranty before taking ownership.

And if sparkling graphite is your preference, Neil22 has one advertised on e46f forum, think he's asking $16K. I've seen Neil's car but didn't have time to drive it, gray leather interior and about high 70's range on mileage, he only lives about 5 miles from me.

Bruce

[TheHyeOne]

Did you drive it before, earlier this year?
I mean I dont want you to go out of your way and check it out, what if I dont even end up with that car?

[BCS_ZHP]

I drove Leighton's car in the May 2011 timeframe, it had just over 50K miles at the time. I did not drive it in Jan/Feb when i was chasing that conv. Leighton is OCD and was concerned i was taching his car up too high when i went over 4K rpms, I suspect the car has been babied by him.

Rethink what you just implied, do I mind driving it for you??? I absolutely love ZHPs so asking me to check it out would not be putting me out in any way. And i've done enough maintenance on these E46s that i kind of know what to look for. If you decide not to buy it so what, I will have had a chance to drive someone else's ZHP to compare it against my own. Leighton's is probably 15 miles away, I can easily find an excuse to get over in his part of town.

And finally, with or without a ZHP in your immediate future, I'm hosting a ZHP get together Oct 5-7 at my house, about 20 cars signed up so far, so put that on your calendar and plan to be here. Even if you don't have a ZHP yet, you'll want to meet some of the Mafia family and absorb some of their E46 knowledge from them, a pretty amazing group.

[danewilson77]

I drove Leighton's car in the May 2011 timeframe, it had just over 50K miles at the time. I did not drive it in Jan/Feb when i was chasing that conv. Leighton is OCD and was concerned i was taching his car up too high when i went over 4K rpms, I suspect the car has been babied by him.

Rethink what you just implied, do I mind driving it for you??? I absolutely love ZHPs so asking me to check it out would not be putting me out in any way. And i've done enough maintenance on these E46s that i kind of know what to look for. If you decide not to buy it so what, I will have had a chance to drive someone else's ZHP to compare it against my own. Leighton's is probably 15 miles away, I can easily find an excuse to get over in his part of town.

And finally, with or without a ZHP in your immediate future, I'm hosting a ZHP get together Oct 5-7 at my house, about 20 cars signed up so far, so put that on your calendar and plan to be here. Even if you don't have a ZHP yet, you'll want to meet some of the Mafia family and absorb some of their E46 knowledge from them, a pretty amazing group.

I endorse this public announcement.

Sent from Corolla, NC USA = Party

[BCS_ZHP]

Mr. Corolla - I suspect you've have enough libations today that you'd endorse just about anything at this time of night, lol!

[danewilson77]

Mr. Corolla - I suspect you've have enough libations today that you'd endorse just about anything at this time of night, lol!

Perhaps. We'll just pick it up tomorrow.

Sent from Corolla, NC USA = Party

[TheHyeOne]

Where will the meet be at?

And if you want, sure. Can you please look at the car sometime over the weekend? How would this work out? Need me to talk to him?

[BCS_ZHP]

Yeah, just tell Leighton you're having a friend from this forum (he knows what the mafia is)look at the car for you, and remind him I looked at it 15 months ago. Then give him my number and ask him to call me with a time slot that works for him. Pm me your number too so I can call you afterwards with a report while it's fresh in my mind.
Bruce
920-410-5698

[BCS_ZHP]

Forgot, the meet will be in Northern Virginia at my house, Fairfax Station, VA. Friday night arrive and cookout. Saturday group cruises to mountains or DC for sightseeing, gather back at night for dinner out somewhere. Sunday is maintenance day at my house/garage/driveway, we'll tackle anything anyone wants to attempt because we have some mechanical/electrical/software experts in the group. Simple as oil changes to Vanos rebuilds, brake jobs, whatever.

[TheHyeOne]

Okay I will email him tonight about it .
Good to know about that meet, wow its a whole weekend thing? Seems intense lol

[TheHyeOne]

Got it. He said around 2pm. But I gave him ur info, and to get in touch with you.
Thank you.

[TheHyeOne]

FYI, his car is also listed here:
http://www.zhpregistry.net/forsale/DisplayListing.aspx?id=192

[MrMaico]

Nice looking car! I notice in the AT ad it says "price negotiable" and is $20,000. At the Registry it's only $18,500 or best offer. So his price has come down and it sounds like maybe he is a little more serious about selling it this time and more willing to negotiate.

Good luck......Barry