Dr. Vanos

[UdubBadger]

Very good promise of product and quality (over OEM) but not apparently that isn't always the case (as I am sure most of you have heard of my troubles over the last 3 days).

Yes the install was a bit easier than the Beisan System seals/rattle kit and should have shaved off an hour or two of total time, but when you run into issues as I did with the solenoids not being cleaned properly and pistons getting stuck, you will double your time spent under the hood fixing things in the end.

I am not going to say I can recommend this or not yet as I am still considering it a pending issue. However I was able to fix everything finally.


Aaron (and Dr. Vanos staff),

I was able to get to the exhaust solenoid after a last minute trip to the hardware store and about 3 hours of trying to remove it in tight engine bay quarters tonight. I cleaned out all of the grit, relubricated and reinstalled all of the components and got the car working the way it should (for now). I don't need a warranty unit sent out for now but thank you for that offer. To be honest, it would have been harder for me to go through an entire vanos removal again than it was to fix it this way, as my skills under the hood are fairly limited.

With that being said, I wanted to voice my displeasure with the entire process I just had to go through to get to where we are now. Originally I weighed the pros and cons of your product, a total vanos replacement swap, with the one of 1/2 the price in the Beisan Systems seals and rattle kit. Your kit is advertised as one that is "professionally rebuilt to a much higher standard than the factory refurbished units" and claim that you are second to none in the vanos industry. It was because of this claim of high quality and ease of install that I chose your product.

With the 6 hours I spent on the actual vanos install with my friend helping me, plus the 2 issues of both of the solenoids needing to be removed, cleaned out and reinstalled I doubled the install time on this project at just about 12 hours total (which doesn't count the time I had to take researching things or making multiple trips to the hardware and auto parts stores over and over). The problem is that the extra 6 hours (under the hood of the car) was to no fault of my own, but rather on Dr. Vanos's end for not properly cleaning/refurbing the vanos units as your claim states you do to each piece you sell. Had I gone the other Beisan Systems route with my original vanos unit, the extra time spent replacing the seals would have still made out to be much less than the total time I spent on the project using yours. Also, since my solenoids operated properly I wouldn't have run into these extra unforeseen issues. Additionally, I wouldn't have spent an extra $100 on a code reader and $50 in extra tools needed to remove the solenoids and pistons. I won't even try to put a price tag on the frustration of the daunting task of the trial and errors needed to actually get it done but I'm sure you can imagine.

I realize that sometimes these little things happen, and that is understandable. However, since it was clearly explained to me (by both you and Chris via phone) that it is a common occurrence that these chambers have built up grit and gunk from not being fully cleaned out properly, I believe the liability rests with Dr. Vanos in the failure to sell a quality product to me (its customer) as it promised to do.

So this is where I ask you, what can be done here to compensate me for this hassle? My time is valuable (as I'm sure yours is too) and I put a several of my friends out, irritated the hell out of my wife and most importantly rearranged my life and schedule having to deal with this issue over the last 3 days. Because of these reasons, I feel that some kind of compensation for the trouble is appropriate in this case.

I await your response with great anticipation.

Sincerely,

Seth August

I'll let you all know how it goes.


See the conclusion here: http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?7600-Dr.-Vanos&p=192148#post192148

[JupiterBMW]

Please do... I was considering ordering the Dr. Vanos unit, but now I'm thinking about waiting...

[gammagoblin]

Wow that sucks.

FWIW I had no issues with my Dr. Vanos.

[danewilson77]

Have you found through your research that this vanos solonoid issue happens often/not often/a few times/etc?

[UdubBadger]

Dane both guys I've spoken with (Aaron and Chris) over there told me flat out they have recently been having issues with there being build up in both intake and exhaust solenoid areas that cause the piston to become jammed in the chamber. They said it was because they aren't cleaned out as well as they should be. I take that as an admission of fault, don't you?

Hopefully they give me a partial refund and this also causes them to do some QC on the units they send out.

[danewilson77]

Mmm....That clears up my question. Thank you.

[UdubBadger]

kinda surprised no answer to my email today.

[KevinC]

Just went through my own similar headache. Ordered a rebuilt VANOS from the good Doctor. Had my very experienced indy mechanic install it a week ago today, along with a DISA Gold. During test drive, car ran like shiite, refusing to rev, then threw a CEL. Returned to shop, read the fault codes, and there were issues with both the intake and exhaust sides. Called the doc, left message, sent email, finally heard back from Chris. Explained situation, he sounded genuinely surprised, wanted to know the exact fault codes. Gave him the indy's phone number, said he'd call. I check back with the shop 4 hours later, no call yet from Chris. Shit. Finally Chris gets hold of him Thursday morning, and after hearing exactly what they were experiencing, decides it must indeed be a bad unit, agrees to send replacement. Never contacts me again, I now get all info from the shop. I ASSume he'll overnight the thing - heck it only weighs a couple of pounds, and he knows my car is down. Nope. Monday, Tuesday come and go, no delivery. I email him last night, politely asking for tracking info and explaining that I'm a week without car as of today. No response. Call the shop at about 2pm. New unit arrived today, they are buttoning up the car now. Sheesh, finally. I get home and Chris has finally responded to my email, and has the nads to ask that I send back the core & bad unit right away, as they are in need of cores. REALLY? Oh, let me jump through hoops and get them RIGHT back to you! Thanks for the same consideration while my car was down.

He's agreed to make "some kind of adjustment" but he'd better knock at least $100 off or I'm gonna get real testy with him. I understand a bad unit, but the way he handled the followup and replacement is just unacceptable. He actually told the shop he had another rebuilt unit "right here" and ready to ship, so they can't use the excuse that another wasn't immediately available. Even if that had been the case, it should have been communicated to me.

All's well that ends well, I suppose. The car is fine now, my shop cut me a great deal on the labor, despite having to do the job twice, and lock my car up for the past week while we waited for the part. But between my experience and what I'm learning from this thread, I'd have a real hard time recommending the doctor to others. I'll post back when an "adjustment" has been agreed upon.

[Sockethead]

I wonder why the issue with quailty?
1) they send the parts out for the cleaning process.
2) they have too many units going through and are rushing the process.
3) they have some new guy or stoner doing the cleaning process.
4) they say they test every single unit before shipping.... they must only test the operation of the pistons;

In either case, by doing just the seals on your own unit gives one control over the quality of the process.... having done both, the Besian isn't that much more work... looks like I'll be recomending that until they get their quality issues fixed...

[danewilson77]

The issue I have, is that the vanos unit you get is not your vanos unit. You have no idea, how the car was maintained, regarding the vanos unit you end up with.

I think this is important ragrding the inscindiary and related components.

[Sockethead]

The issue I have, is that the vanos unit you get is not your vanos unit. You have no idea, how the car was maintained, regarding the vanos unit you end up with.

I think this is important ragrding the inscindiary and related components.

Good point!
I thought about that too when I was deciding what unit to go with last year.
looks like alll they do is media blast the outside of the unit and put new seals in it. I bet they don't even remove the solenoids...

[danewilson77]

Do they do runout measurements on the pistons? Do they test the springs, etc?

I know they test the unit....but...

Could a unit pass an overall test, but have peices/parts that show wear, or could be failing?

I dunno.......

[Sockethead]

Do they do runout measurements on the pistons? Do they test the springs, etc?

I know they test the unit....but...

Could a unit pass an overall test, but have peices/parts that show wear, or could be failing?

I dunno.......
Heh, I'd like to think that they do all of that but who knows...

[UdubBadger]

Good points guys.

Kevin please keep me updated as I am waiting to hear about some compensation from them as well.


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile

[UdubBadger]

Happy to report I received TWO responses to my email this morning.


Seth,
First of all, let me apologize for all the issues. All of us here at DrVanos are very sorry to have let one of our customers down with a less-then-ideal product. This was obviously an oversight on our part to have let this one go out in the condition it was in. We have taken steps to make sure it doesn't happen to someone else.
I will be happy to refund the cost of the vanos for your troubles, in addition to your core refund, once we receive your core back.
Thanks,
Chris Gant
DrVanos.com


Seth,

I wanted to let you know that we received your core today, I went ahead and refunded $400 please allow 2-3 business days for the refund to show on your account. Once again, I am sorry about the headaches. Unfortunately, I can say I know how it feels! The problem came from a slight modification in the way we clean our VANOS. We have eliminated this modification in order to eliminate the problem completely. Thank you for patience, and handling the matter kindly. We truly appreciate your business.

Aaron

So I guess thats probably more than expected on an entire refund (and apology) which makes me think they obviously know they messed up. Sounds like their QC is going to jump up a few notches from now on regarding this matter so in my honest opinion, I'd probably try them again in a few years when it's time to do the vanos again.

If anyone else is considering them, I would first speak to them about how they have corrected the issues before placing an order to make sure the changes have gone through.


Now we just need to get Kevin taken care of...

[johnrando]

Holy cow, full refund!

:chucknorris

[SoCalZman]

glad to see this resolved. Also glad to see them drop any pride/ego some might have for the good of the customer (and their company). Its admissions and QA resolution plans like this that make me feel better about using a company that has messed up. As a result, I will probably use them if I need to in the future.

[UdubBadger]

A little humility can go a long way

[jayjay_dee]

good read and better result, thanks for sharing Seth...

[Sockethead]

Good to see a company that still cares about the customer... I'm sure they know that their reputation is on the line as the BMW community is pretty tight. A full refund is probably more that any one expected...

[imola red zhp]

Seth,
Great letter and excellent result

sent from dennis' personal electronic device

[aurelius]

Surprised to see a full refund. Then again, you guys unwittingly served as final R&D subjects re their "slightly modified" solenoid cleaning process.

I agree they handled it well and it's good to see they have a handle on what went wrong.

I would use them, tho as DW pointed out, I'd have them rebuild my actual Vanos unit. I suppose I'd have to score the outer casing to know for sure I got the same one back.

[UdubBadger]

I think they're trust worthy enough to take their word. :)


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile

[KevinC]

Here's what I just fired off to the good doctor....

Chris,

I just dropped off one of the two return units, not sure if it's the core or the original (bad) rebuild you sent. I was given both back in their shipping boxes, but one of the two, despite being put back in its plastic bag (which apparently has a hole in it someplace), leaked a ton of oil into the box and destroyed the box. Also apparently no prepaid return label was sent with the replacement. I looked hard but don't have another box on hand that I can ship the 2nd one back in, so please send me another box with prepaid return label, and I'll turn it around right away.

This has been a horrible experience. I can forgive a bad unit - it's going to happen from time to time with any product. But you could have been a hero and greatly minimized my inconvenience by promptly overnighting a replacement on Thursday (I first spoke to you before noon (my time) that day and gave you the shop's number.) I'd have had my car back last Friday. Instead a replacement didn't arrive until Wednesday, leaving me without my car for 5 additional days. I returned my $40/day rental car after one day or I'd have had an additional sizable expense for that. The car was running horribly according to the shop, so driving it while waiting for the replacement wasn't practical, I just made do without. My shop was very accommodating and only charged me half the labor for the re-do, but I'm still out that money as well. Maybe you didn't have another unit available immediately? I don't know, because you didn't communicate with me again. If that were the case I should have been told, as well as when to expect a new unit to arrive at the shop. Is any of that unreasonable or too much to expect? I don't think so.

I'll leave it to you to decide what a reasonable credit is given the circumstances. Even with a full credit I won't break even between out-of-pocket expense and loss of use, but it would go a long ways towards making me feel better about the whole matter.

Regards,
<yada yada yada>

We'll see what comes back. Stay tuned.

[UdubBadger]

Keep us updated


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile

[Hornung418]

So I guess thats probably more than expected on an entire refund (and apology) which makes me think they obviously know they messed up. Sounds like their QC is going to jump up a few notches from now on regarding this matter so in my honest opinion, I'd probably try them again in a few years when it's time to do the vanos again.

VANOS seals are a one time deal. No need to do it again.

[UdubBadger]

LOL

my bad, I thought they needed to get replaced every 60k-ish

[KevinC]

Full refund for me too. Apology reply included a blurb about them "receiving a small batch of cores that didn't have the solenoids properly cleaned". Which of course is something we'd ASSume is part of THEIR rebuilding job. My guess: they've gotten busy, and hired some Spicoli-like dude, who convinced them to hire him with his "my father is a television repairman, he has this ULTIMATE set of tools! I can fix it!!" line of BS. Several disastrous customer experiences later, Spicoli is once again unemployed, sitting in a '64 Microbus parked at Bolsa Chica state beach, smoking massive quantities of dizzy broccoli, and banging himself in the head with his Van's checkerboard slip-on, proclaiming "That was my skull! I'm SO wasted!!" Meanwhile, all is right again in the world of VANOS rebuilds.

http://diamondbag.tripod.com/images/spicoli2.jpg

http://media.avclub.com/images/articles/article/28044/Phoebe_Cates_Fast_Times_at_Ridgemon_jpg_627x325_cr op_upscale_q85.jpg

[UdubBadger]

Good to hear Kev.


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile

[Milano]

Hate to bring an old thread back to life.... but I just bought one of these from Dr. Vanos and I'm a bit worried mine won't be up to par given the horror stories from Seth and Kevin.

For us novices, what kinds of things should I be looking for when installing this thing to avoid future problems?

[danewilson77]

Hate to bring an old thread back to life.... but I just bought one of these from Dr. Vanos and I'm a bit worried mine won't be up to par given the horror stories from Seth and Kevin.

For us novices, what kinds of things should I be looking for when installing this thing to avoid future problems?

The issue was the car didn't right, due to an improperly cleaned vanos solonoid...if I remember right. You could take the vanos solonoid off, and try to do a visual on it, but I'm not sure you would see anything.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[ryankokesh]

Someone else can probably elaborate on this, but I think you'd want to take the intake and exhaust solenoids off, clean them, make sure they move freely, and then reassemble.

[echo46]

Hopefully, you will not have any issues but I choose the Beisan refresh route so I didn't have to worry about it. Good luck and let us know hoe the install goes.

[UdubBadger]

Someone else can probably elaborate on this, but I think you'd want to take the intake and exhaust solenoids off, clean them, make sure they move freely, and then reassemble.

Yes correct. Make sure the piston moves freely and no grit or grime is in the solenoid that would cause it to jam up.


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile

[Milano]

Alright, thanks guys. I'll be doing the install this weekend, so I'll let you know if I find anything.

[webster]

my understanding is that they fixed the kink in the production chain to prevent the issue that Seth had from happening again...

[webster]

so feedback after having the Dr Vanos kit/VCG/spark plug work done...

extremely satisfied so far. first off: the sound. no more rattle! just butter smooth inline-6 goodness. it's so nice to listen to the engine at 2k+ RPMs bounce off a tunnel or underpass and not hear the marbles in a tin can sound.

secondly: performance. i wasn't sure what to expect but honestly it feels like i gained 5-10hp. i put zero stock in whether or not i actually gained anything at the wheels but to me it sure feels like it. off-idle power delivery has noticebaly improved. launching from a stop in 2nd gear no longer produces the slight glug-glug-glug as it did previously. deceleration through the RPM band is much smoother as well.

finally: customer experience. A+ to both Dr Vanos (got my order next day since they ship from Austin) and to the guys at Bavarian Machine Specialties here in Houston. John cut me a nice discount on labor and had the original Vanos core boxed up in my trunk and ready to be mailed out for return. as always they offered rides to and from work as needed as a convenience.

we will see how the performance holds up over time but for now i am very happy to finally have my Vanos done.

[UdubBadger]

Good to hear, thanks for letting us know.

[danewilson77]

Good to hear, thanks for letting us know.

#plusone

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[webster]

this is how i imagine our cars drove new from the factory :D

[kayger12]

Good to hear, thanks for letting us know.

+1

Sent from my kick-A Galaxy S3

[Sockethead]

so feedback after having the Dr Vanos kit/VCG/spark plug work done...

extremely satisfied so far. first off: the sound. no more rattle! just butter smooth inline-6 goodness. it's so nice to listen to the engine at 2k+ RPMs bounce off a tunnel or underpass and not hear the marbles in a tin can sound.

secondly: performance. i wasn't sure what to expect but honestly it feels like i gained 5-10hp. i put zero stock in whether or not i actually gained anything at the wheels but to me it sure feels like it. off-idle power delivery has noticebaly improved. launching from a stop in 2nd gear no longer produces the slight glug-glug-glug as it did previously. deceleration through the RPM band is much smoother as well.

finally: customer experience. A+ to both Dr Vanos (got my order next day since they ship from Austin) and to the guys at Bavarian Machine Specialties here in Houston. John cut me a nice discount on labor and had the original Vanos core boxed up in my trunk and ready to be mailed out for return. as always they offered rides to and from work as needed as a convenience.

we will see how the performance holds up over time but for now i am very happy to finally have my Vanos done.

Cool! also used the DR Vanos kit about a year and a half ago... no problem. I noticed an increase in power too. Mostly improved low end torque

[echo46]

Great job and good to hear. I did the Beisan Vanos refresh and anti rattle kit and am also very satisfied withthemissing the results.