New Owner......

[deuce08s]

I'm in the process of having a PPI done on an 05 ZHP and I have heard about the rear subframe issue but when I search subframe on the forum here no threads specific to it come up. Is it something I should have the dealer check? Is it a big issue for 05s?

From what I can tell the second owner (who has owned it for most of the time....I'm buying it from the third owner) kept up on all maintenance with BMW and was a forum member who took extremely good care of the car. The third owner seems to have taken really good care of it as well, the car looks amazing short of some scuffs on the body from things like a bike rack, a couple of curb rash spots, and the usual front end marks from driving.

I'm having the dealer do their standard PPI...is there anything I should add to it?

The owner talks about the car tracking a lot....he kept mentioning that there is an on-ramp that he takes every day and every day the car just follows the roads and he says if you're not careful the thing will drive itself into the ditch. I've been in cars with really tight steering and I've seen how they can follow the tracks in the road and get upset and follow it, but is this something different? I'm hoping the dealer drives the car as well.

This is a long distance purchase......pics look amazing, price and mileage are great, car is what I want with options and all. Autocheck comes out great and it was never driven in winter. He has new rear tires and new EBC front pads/rotors on it. Do I make a decision solely based on the PPI then?

Thanks for your help, guys!

Bob

[danewilson77]

Subframe issue typically only affected 99-02.

You should see it in person prior to commitment...imho.

Welcome.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[deuce08s]

Can I see it without the car being off the ground? I plan to look at and drive the car prior to any final commitments, but with the history that I know of the car it has been well taken care of. HOwever, I know that doesn't speak for the fact that it is 7 years old and has 70k miles on it. I also know that these cars are harder to come by, especially with decent mileage and good care, so my emotions tell me to jump on it......wisely. Thanks for your reply, Dane!

[BCS_ZHP]

Deuce08s,
If this is Neil's car in N. VA, I've seen it and talked to the owner. Didn't drive it though because i was limited on time that day, but could if you want. Feel free to PM me or call if we're talking about the same one and I can give you my impressions.
Bruce

[deuce08s]

Deuce08s,
If this is Neil's car in N. VA, I've seen it and talked to the owner. Didn't drive it though because i was limited on time that day, but could if you want. Feel free to PM me or call if we're talking about the same one and I can give you my impressions.
Bruce

THanks, Bruce, but the car is in Nebraska. The previous owners to the current owner were members of bimmerforums.com.....car was immaculate a few years ago. Current owner had the tail light recall done, the DSC reflash as well as the DSC sensor replaced. Thats all he's needed to do.

[johnrando]

Welcome. Hope you get a good one. Having the dealer do a PPI on a well maintained car with records sounds like about as good a bet as you can make these days w/o being there yourself. EDIT: I should add that of course you should make sure the cooling system was done.

[deuce08s]

I asked the owner about the cooling system and he said that the resevoir bottle was replaced.

[M3TA5IN]

Welcome and good luck on the purchase.

[cakM3]

Bob,

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your purchase :thumbsup

As for finding information regarding the rear subframe, you can find several references to this at E46Fanatics. Here are a few links on the subject for your review...

forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=679669&highlight=subframe (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=679669&highlight=subframe)

From M3Forum web site:
m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=333632 (http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=333632)

Bimmerforums web site:
forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1598447 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1598447)

Google search results for Subframe failures:
www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=bmw+e46+rear+subframe+repair&oq=bmw+e46+rear+subframe+repair&gs_l=hp.3..0j0i30.13548.21863.0.23376.30.19.1.10.1 0.1.281.3292.0j14j5.19.0...0.0.hCA1xC-fErs&pbx=1&fp=1&biw=1680&bih=895&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&cad=b (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=bmw+e46+rear+subframe+repair&oq=bmw+e46+rear+subframe+repair&gs_l=hp.3..0j0i30.13548.21863.0.23376.30.19.1.10.1 0.1.281.3292.0j14j5.19.0...0.0.hCA1xC-fErs&pbx=1&fp=1&biw=1680&bih=895&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&cad=b)

You can also find tons of videos on this subject from YouTube but I can't access the website from work (NMCI)...
I think this link will work but not sure... www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoIUcCMyUHg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoIUcCMyUHg)

As others have said... get a PPI on this car and see if you can get a carfax report... and as John has mentioned, see if there's a maintenance history for this car... better to be sure you are getting a good car...:thumbsup

[deuce08s]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1855526

Above is his link on bimmerforums......

[johnrando]

Remember Charlie, he's looking at an '05... therefore no subframe issues.

[cakM3]

Remember Charlie, he's looking at an '05... therefore no subframe issues.

Interesting to hear John, I thought no matter the year... all E46 were prone to subframe tears although the later years were less likely to experience them... even the ///M. I have seen ///Ms with subframe tears and they aren't supposed to have them...

[imola red zhp]

Good luck with purchase!

Welcome!!

sent from dennis' personal electronic device

[Hochspannung]

it is every year of production, but after 2002 they redesigned the subframe and the floor pan cracks happened less and less. My 2000 328ci had cracks in the floor pan. It happens most on the rear drivers side mount. You have to get under the car with a wire brush and some degreaser to actually see the cracks. It should be noticeable by sound in the cabin when you let off the accelerator while accelerating you will hear a 'pop'/'click' sound from the trunk area. Its rare that face lift cars have subframe issues.

[Hochspannung]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMg0AE_fF1A

thats what it sounds like.

[deuce08s]

Thanks for the video! And thanks for the welcomes. I don't have the car yet, but I'm thinking I will pick it up next weekend....pending the PPI this afternoon!

[johnrando]

Plus iirc verts have a reinforced one due to the weight of the car so that's not an issue for them at all.

[onepercent]

Very exciting, I hope everything works out well for you.

Coming from other vehicles, the tramlining (technical term for the "tracking" steering issue you mentioned) is fairly dramatic in the ZHP because the steering has such a tight feel and probably also having something to do with the wheel and tire specs. However, you will get used to it. Just be safe out there. Heading into corners, especially on a smooth road, this car's character comes out, and I absolutely love the steering feel of this car.

If I were you, I would try not to commit to anything until I had actually seen and driven the car. Is it at a brand-franchised dealer, or a mom-and-pop dealer? Usually, and I emphasize usually, the franchised dealers' cars have fewer issues because they have more to lose. However, there are some great mom and pop shops too.

Good luck!

[deuce08s]

This is a private seller. I just got the report from the dealer, and the inner front tires are down to zero as well as the front control arm bearings are loose. That would explain the weird tracking AND the wear on the tires.......says the dealer. Also, there was a slight leak from the oil pan, but they aren't sure if it is just a crush washer or the actual pan itself, and they weren't going to do an oil change to find out....unless I paid for it, of course.

All in all, with the control arm fix, new tires, and whatever the oil pan could be I"m looking at about $1800 in repairs. Obviously, I can buy tires of my choice. However, are the control arm bushings easy to do?

Are these things not worth pursuing the car anymore? Or do I use this to negotiate the price more?

[deuce08s]

Any thoughts? I like the car and it has the options I want. The dealer tech pretty much said for what I"m not getting with it......detailing/reconditioning, and what needs to be fixed it should be a lot lower.

[johnrando]

I'm thinking negotiate those fixes in the price but none of those are uncommon. Inner tire wear is an E46 trait. Control arm bushings going out are not uncommon either. To me, an oil leak could be bad but if they think it's fixable w/o a big deal (new pan, whatever), I'd still make the deal given some price concessions. If you like the car, none of those issues are show stoppers. New tires for these are expensive as you may have already found out, but lots of cheaper places than the dealer for those.

[WOLFN8TR]

Hey Bob,

Last year I bought my 05 ZHP with 98,000 miles. Had a PPI done at a Cali dealership and they found several things wrong. Slot of them were minor. Broken strut bolt, bad fan belts, bad oil leak and one leaking strut. I believe the estimate was $1,800. I did all the repairs myself at a cost of $150. The Oil Filter Housing Gasket ($7) was all that was causing the oil leak, the oil was everywhere. They wanted $985 to replace the entire unit. I also have some pretty bad inner tire wear, the car tracks just as you describe. I need to do my suspension. One thing I noticed is the tire pressure will amplify this if not right. You also want to keep one hand on the wheel at all times. I paid $14,000 for my ZHP.

Hopefully all works out for ya, the ZHP is a dream to drive.

[deuce08s]

Yeah, I'm not so worried about the oil as the guy said he did an oil change last week and didn't replace the crush washer. HOwever, the dealer quoted over $600 for a new oil pan in case that isn't the fix. THe tires I"m not worried about, nor the control arm bearings. I do worry about doing my own maintenance on these cars, or any cars anymore, because if it isn't an oil change then it seems to take me at least 5 hours to do what others do in one hour. It's just my luck it seems. I'm calling him tonight to make him an offer. He is asking $17K.

[WOLFN8TR]

Good luck!

[deuce08s]

Done deal! I'll be picking the car up in a week! I'm excited, and I can officially say I"m a member!

[WOLFN8TR]

Awesome!

[johnrando]

Done deal! I'll be picking the car up in a week! I'm excited, and I can officially say I"m a member!

Awesome, congrats!