Is my BMW mechaninc/buddy trying to rip me off??

[SEGUA I SOGNI]

First, I am going to apologize for this VERY long post, but I am trying to not leave any details out....so here goes....

I have an 05 ZHP coupe, 6mt w/ 50k miles on it. I live in the DC area and my buddy that I have known for more than 15 years happens to be a BMW lead tech as a BMW dealership in the DC area.

When I bought my ZHP 3 months ago, he told me he would take care of my maintenance at a reduced labor price and get me parts at his cost. He has a professional car lift at his house with all the BMW tools needed to do side jobs.

The first thing he did for my car was replace the accesory belts. He quoted me $125 parts & labor. I agreed and he did the job.

Just before SIGFEST 2012, I asked him if he could do my oil change and check out 2 lights that were on my dash. The first light was my "yellow oil light". I asked him, about it and he said to check the oil. I asked him, should I check the oil after its been sitting still for 8 hours or should I check it after driving it for a few minutes. He said its fine to have it parked all day at work and then check it at the end of the day before starting the engine. The level showed right in the middle of the safe zone on the dipstick, however the oil light would keep coming on while driving and also illuminate for 20 seconds after shutting the engine off. My buddy said, its probably the oil level sensor that went bad and that he would check it out. The other light that was constantly (and still is) on, is the "service engine soon" light. He told me that its probably an emissions related thing but not serious. I asked him if he could pull the codes and he said it would cost me $50 to pull the codes. He also quoted me $90 for an oil change (includes oil, filter and labor)

Now, I know the stealer charge about $140 for an oil change and $120 to pull the codes. I asked my buddy why so much to pull the codes and he said it takes about 30 mins for the entire diagnostic to complete and that it runs through a series of tests and thats why he wants to charge me $50 for that.

I told him to hold off until after SIGFEST. Just before I left for SIGFEST, I got online and called a few BMW mechaninc shops - asking them when should I check my oil...when its been resting all day long or should I run the engine for a few mins first? They all said, run the engine for 5-10 mins and then let it sit for 3 mins, then check it.

I did so, and the oil level was in the low range. I bought some BMW oil previous to checking the dipstick and indeed it needed oil, so I added a little bit at a time and kept checking the dipstick. After adding a full quart, the dipstick read right in the middle of the safe zone. I turned my engine back on and since then the oil light has not come back on since! So, I am sure it was not my oil level sensor, like my buddy said it probably was.

Next, while I was at SIGFEST, I was lucky enough to meet a nice guy that had a portable code reader. He was more than willing to pull my codes for free and even told me from his manual what each one meant. I am 95% sure the code reader he was using was a "Peake research R5 FCX3-16 Fault Code reader" He pulled my codes and they were" 28dd (mass air sensor) & 2882/2883 (mixture prep) - which he thinks that I may have a crack in my lower intake boot.

When I got back to the DC area and texted my buddy that my oil light has not come on in 3 days since adding a quart of oil and that I had my codes pulled and what they each meant. He replied back "those codes dont mean much to me. Thats aftermarket scanners. I get BMW codes and tests with my BMW SW".

I want to know from you guys/gals, are the codes pulles using the Peake scanner the same as a BMW scanner, or would they be something totally different. Also, is it really that labor intensive to check codes. (A guy that I never met before, did it for free in 10 minutes, yet a buddy that Ive known for 15+ years wants $50 bucks)???

Do you guys/gals think he is ripping me off or just trying to squeeze as much money out of me as possible?

Please chime in.

-Andrew

[SoarinZHP]

I'd say your getting screwed by your "buddy." $50.00 to pull codes when a family member did it for free? I think that says a lot right there. A code is a code and all that happens is plugging a cable or reader into the OBD2 port... Nothing magic about it.

[danewilson77]

The guy is making money off of you. People bring their cars to me, andvi pull their codes in about 30 seconds.

The tech should have told you to check your oil level in accordance with your owners manual. That is....after being fully warmed up....you should check it 10 to 50 minutes after shutdown...I think.

I dunno about that guy.

Sent from a Thunderbolt

[SoarinZHP]

I wonder how much he charges for blinker fluid? LMAO... Dane comps it for mafiosos.

[Hornung418]

Andrew, Seems like you need a new friend...

You should always check oil after it has run for a bit and sits for 5 minutes. Your sensor was doing it's job and letting you know that it was a quart low.

As for the codes, you should really get your hands dirty and clean the intake tract. Get some MAF cleaner from the Auto Parts Store and spray it in only in the direction of air flow. NEVER SPRAY IT BACKWARDS!!

When you get to the intake boots just undo the Worm Gear clips and pull them out of there. The most likely place for the boots to crack are at the elbow for the Idle Air Control Valve and the vacuum line F-Clip.

Best of luck. And if you need some hands on help there are plenty of us in the DC area to lend a hand :)

[SEGUA I SOGNI]

Thank you SoarinZHP and Dane for chiming in. I think I will be doing more work on my car than expected, but at least I got the family and this website to help me through it. But for bigger jobs, like Service Inspection II, I think I will have to find a mechanic and try to negotiate a fair price.

Also, I should mention, that my "buddy" just had a baby 2 weeks ago, and I am sure is momey hungry because of it. Just sucks that he treats me like any other person that approaches him for side jobs that he really doesnt know. I think I will have a man to man talk (of course using sugar versus vinegar in my tone) with him and see if I can work him to a better overall rate. He quoted me $75/hour labor for anything he does to my car and justifies it because the dealer is $140/hour)...Ill see if he will do it for $50 an hour. :/

[SEGUA I SOGNI]

Hornung418...thank you for the advice!!! very much appreciated and it feels nice to know there are awesome people on this site! :)

[telijah]

OK, so as for pulling codes, he is kinda in the right and kinda in the wrong. Those Peake code reader DO in fact give unique codes that will mean nothing to anyone except those that have the manual for the Peake readers. Now, others have standard OBD readers, like me, and like the family here, I am willing to hook it up and scan anyone's codes for free. BUT, your friend, being a BMW tech, likely does have a full BMW diag tool that likely does take a long time to do it's scans and self tests. Still though, for $50 bucks, it seems pretty steep.

$90 on the oil change is not too bad, but if I had my own lift, I would not be charging my friends a single dime for labor. With our cars having a oil filter housing up top, oil changes are a breeze to begin with. You can get an oil change "kit" from any of the online vendors around 60-80 bucks shipped.

Long story short, unless this friend is doing all the work from the BMW shop and not his house, he should not be charging you for anything as far as labor is concerns, except maybe on those belts, and I think that was an OK price as well.

[johnrando]

So, it takes 30 minutes to run his "extensive test" but he's going to charge you $50? That does not sound like "friends" rates. Now, he's cheaper than the dealer so he's giving you a break, but it's not "friends" rates, rather more like acquaintances rates. Same with the $90 oil change. So, in short, it seems like he's making money off of you but not gouging you. He's cheaper than the dealer. I'd treat my "friends" better than that, but everyone's different.

[SEGUA I SOGNI]

John,
I agree...its definitely more of an "aquaintance" price than a "friend" price. I found a coupon online for %15 off BMW oil from the stealer for a case (total price including tax and discount is = $80.58) which is about $6.71/quart = $10 for a filter. 7 quarts of oil + 1 filter would cost me about $60 bucks. The $90 price my "friend" was offering me means $30 in labor he keeps. I know of a shop where I used to take my Acura and bring my own synthetic oil and filter and they would only charge me $20 labor....so my friend is definitely making money off me, but probably because he knows I dont have a place to change the oil myself and so he thinks he is the best I got.

[telijah]

Get yourself a Motiv Power Extractor and then you don't need a "place" to do your oil changes. With the extractor, the entire oil change can take place under the hood.

[kayger12]

Yeah, I'd stay clear of that guy Andrew.

Go to this site http://www.bimrs.org/ and plug in your location. It will give you a list of approved BMW independent mechanics in your area.

Give them a call and see what kind of price they'll give you.

Also, keep an eye on your oil level for now. While your oil level was low, that one CEL code was for an oil level sensor fault.

I'm still betting on an intake leak for you (or a dirty MAF).


I wish this was sent with a Galaxy S3

[SEGUA I SOGNI]

Thanks Keith.... I will definitely hip up some of those indie shops.

I have been keeping an eye on it, and still no indicator light has come on since adding oil almost a week ago. What is the name of the spray used to clean a dirty MAF and where can I buy it?

[kayger12]

Thanks Keith.... I will definitely hip up some of those indie shops.

I have been keeping an eye on it, and still no indicator light has come on since adding oil almost a week ago. What is the name of the spray used to clean a dirty MAF and where can I buy it?

It will be labeled MAF or Mass Airflow Sensor cleaner. Any auto parts store will carry it.

I wish this was sent with a Galaxy S3

[Hornung418]

I use CRC products.

[Au2bahn]

Friend rates=free.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

[BCS_ZHP]

Andrew,
On the friend/acquaintance, if he's using the dealership's lift and reader then they might be charging him to bring a side job in their shop, it might not be gouging but rather what he has to pay. Nevertheless, I can help you with the maintenance. I'm free on Sat afternoon, buy the upper & lower boots (might as well replace both), some MAF sensor cleaner, and an oil change kit. You can buy the air filter & cabin micro filter if you want or we can look at them to see if they need replacing, once I show you that you can do that on your own forever.

Get your BMWCCA membership card & head to Fairfax BMW parts counter, the oil change kit with the CCA membership card is $50 including tax. At the parts counter, ask for Dewain & tell him I'm helping you. Don't forget to ask him for the 2 small rubber seals that go on the oil filter housing stalk, they aren't included in the filter kit that his store sells. Even without the CCA card by mentioning my name, Dewain should give you the the CCA price or the Internet price, whichever is cheaper (I'm probably one of his most frequent walk-in customers). Also, I'll be over that way all Saturday morning for my son's soccer tourney, could meet you at the parts counter around 1:30 if you want and we'll use my CCA card discount.

I live over in Fairfax Station off of 123, my cell number is in the members only section, call or PM me. And no charge, we'll enjoy a beer together after we finish, the garage fridge always has some.

Bruce

[llll1l1ll]

OP, that kinda stinks you're pal is doing that to you - especially on reading the codes because he is probably just sitting in your driver's seat listening to the radio while the codes pull. I also know of a place here in the DC area that does oil changes for 80 bucks all said and done using complete OEM kits (BMW oil and Mann filters).

In fact, if I recall correctly, BMW is now offering oil changes at 79.99 plus tax.

[danewilson77]

Now that's what I'm talking about :rockon

Bruce = New Mechanic Buddy

[SEGUA I SOGNI]

HOLY $%&# !!!!!! Bruce...I do NOT have enough words to express my gratitide. But if I were to pick 2, they would be THANK YOU! Thats is really nice of you and extremely generous. I am amazed at the level of awesomeness from the people on this site....it just seems to get better and better.

I want to mention, that my "friend" has a professional lift installed at his garage at home, and a BMW scanner, amongst a million other BMW parts, etc. So he does not get charged anything by the dealer. In any event, I am not looking back. Only forward.

Bruce, I will definitely meet you tomorrow at the parts counter at Fairfax BMW @ 1:30. I will send you a text message in a few minutes from my cell phone so you have my number as well.

ZHP family members ROCK!!!!!

[Hornung418]

This thread gets a big ole'

:like

[webster]

Andrew,
On the friend/acquaintance, if he's using the dealership's lift and reader then they might be charging him to bring a side job in their shop, it might not be gouging but rather what he has to pay. Nevertheless, I can help you with the maintenance. I'm free on Sat afternoon, buy the upper & lower boots (might as well replace both), some MAF sensor cleaner, and an oil change kit. You can buy the air filter & cabin micro filter if you want or we can look at them to see if they need replacing, once I show you that you can do that on your own forever.

Get your BMWCCA membership card & head to Fairfax BMW parts counter, the oil change kit with the CCA membership card is $50 including tax. At the parts counter, ask for Dewain & tell him I'm helping you. Don't forget to ask him for the 2 small rubber seals that go on the oil filter housing stalk, they aren't included in the filter kit that his store sells. Even without the CCA card by mentioning my name, Dewain should give you the the CCA price or the Internet price, whichever is cheaper (I'm probably one of his most frequent walk-in customers). Also, I'll be over that way all Saturday morning for my son's soccer tourney, could meet you at the parts counter around 1:30 if you want and we'll use my CCA card discount.

I live over in Fairfax Station off of 123, my cell number is in the members only section, call or PM me. And no charge, we'll enjoy a beer together after we finish, the garage fridge always has some.

Bruce

man i wish i lived close to THIS guy! haha awesome stuff right thar.

[telijah]

Truly noble offer Bruce.

[WOLFN8TR]

Friend rates=free.

EXACTLY!

That dude isn't a true friend. After 15 years he is ok with screwing you over. Wow. He should of done the oil and belt change for $100. Goes to show there's alot of real Dirt Bags out there.

[kayger12]

Bruce is showing how the Family rolls.

Love this place.

[johnrando]

Bruce is showing how the Family rolls.

Love this place.

+1. Bruce, just awesome. Way to come through. Definitely what the family is about. (Plus, you love tennis. Totally wished we got a chance to talk about that at SIGfest).

[BCS_ZHP]

John,
Actually I hate tennis, that's my wife's convertible I was driving, thus her personalized tag "4 10NS". I don't really hate the game per se, just that her obsession with tennis means less discretionary income for me and the more desireable hobby/obsession -- playing with BMWs!
Bruce

[johnrando]

Oh, lol... sorry! :)

[BCS_ZHP]

Andrew,
Picked up the Snap-On reader from my friend, we can clear the codes after the boot change & MAF cleaning tomorrow, you should then be good to go.
Bruce

[DasMechaniKer]

When I was running my shop I'd pull codes for free. Pulling codes is fast and easy and it generates money for a mechanic as it quickly diagnoses problems that the mechanic will then profit from. Also by reading codes for free you persuade the vehicle owner to return with other CEL issues and allow for more profit potential.

I would pay double, or triple and buy a code reader before I'd pay someone else to read my codes ONCE. If he's charging to read codes he's just trying to make some extra cash on a "naive" BMW owner. Don't be that guy, great thing to ask a question about and looks like you got the hookup with Bruce now!

If you change your air intake boots watch real close how they remove as it's a booger to get them back in if you don't have those clamps oriented so that you can tighten them properly!

ALSO, while you're in that far, get a toothbrush and some throttle body/carb cleaner and spray your throttle body down with the cleaner and give it a scrub with the toothbrush. It's hard to see and reach that sucker but you'll want to manually press it open and focus on the throttle valve (metal flap that moves) and the area of the body that the flap touches when closed. It will probably have a tar-like gummy residue in those areas. Get it as clean as possible and you'll have a clean air intake system once you clean the MAF sensor and put some new intake boots on!

When you start your car afterwards it may have a rough start and run like crap for a second or two. It shouldn't throw a code, just the throttle body cleaner burning up in the engine.

Oh, and DO NOT use that toothbrush after you clean the throttle body!!

[BCS_ZHP]

Damn it, does that mean I can't use the wife's toothbrush? Have a can of gum cutter to clean the throttle plate, did that on our Denali recently and like you said, have to go at that gummy stuff a couple of times to get it clean.

[DasMechaniKer]

It may clean faster with one a Sonicare toothbrush actually. But they aren't cheap!

[BCS_ZHP]

Kyle,
We have 3 kids, multiple sleepovers, my wife maintains a stash of new toothbrushes, I'll get a stiff one for this job.

Saw you but didn't get a chance to talk with you at the Fest, hopefully the next one or if we get to Toxaway this summer, invited Ryan & you to come up for a day to enjoy my wife's family's lake front home. The approach roads there are a blast.
Bruce

[DasMechaniKer]

Sounds great Bruce! We go over there a lot for camping/hiking in "waterfall country". I love the Jocassee Gorge area. Ryan is always saying how sweet those roads would be in her car, she hasn't driven it there yet though.

[titaniumair]

For all you DC folks...Passport BMW in Marlow Heights always has a coupon for a $79.95 oil change. I've taken my Z4 and ZHP there many times.