Retrofitting sedan power autofold mirrors - DIY (although stuck on programming)

[sna77]

I am in the middle of retrofitting power autofold mirrors into my ZHP sedan. I'm just about done, except I haven't figured out how to code them yet... I've tried ISTA and a GT1 and can't find the right option...

First off, Delmarco's DIY, which covers all the e46s:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=900070

For ZHP sedans, we all have the ribbon connectors, which means you just need the following 3 parts:

Mirrors:
51167153117 For vehicles with Fold-in outside mirror and High gloss shadow line: Heated outside mirror, memory bus, left

51167153118 For vehicles with Fold-in outside mirror and High gloss shadow line: Heated outside mirror, memory bus, right

Switch:
61316901383 For vehicles with Fold-in outside mirror and Seat adjuster, electric, with memory: Switch f mirror adjust./fldng bck funct.


The mirrors don't come with glass and dont come with backs (you reuse yours). The swap is basically straightforward--carefully remove the old mirrors and install the new ones. The connections are identical going from ribbon connector to ribbon connector...

You simply swap the old blue back switch for the new maroon back switch.... Once it's done, you need to code the car, which is the part I'm stuck on now... Will report back once I figure it out...



Pics: New mirrors come with new foam... Also, brand new mirrors don't have the screws tapped, so it's easier if you thread them before putting them onto the car...


EDITED at completion to add:

I just finished this retrofit in my 2004 BMW 330i ZHP sedan. I can confirm the following:

- You do indeed only need 3 parts for cars with ribbon connectors: both mirrors, and the switch.

- You need to have the car coded to enable the mirrors.

- The Intravee is unable to do the initial coding to enable the mirrors to fold.

- The dealer is unable to code the car to have the mirrors work. This is because there is no "retrofit" available to add this option to the car. The dealer's tools, (GT1 and ISTA) are unable to make the changes.

- To enable the mirrors to work, you need to:

1. Change the Vehicle Order (VO) of the car to include option 313
2. Code the General Module

- This can only be done with special software that can change the VO. I used an Autologic to do this. Autologic is the software program that many BMW independent repair shops will use. The other tool is something called NCS Expert, which was a BMW factory tool that dealer’s did not have access to. I have not tested enabling the mirrors with NCS Expert, but it is capable of changing the VO, so it should be possible as well.

[sna77]

comparison of the old switch vs. new one:

[sna77]

So this is the part of Delmarco's DIY that I'm stuck on:

Again I will reiterate when retrofitting memory power-fold mirrors onto a car with memory/power adjust seats you do not need to buy or replace these control modules. You also should not need to code the control memory modules to fold the mirrors. However, once installed the car will have to be coded to remote control fold the mirrors via the key fob under the convenience features. Cars that have an Intravee II running Version 6.02 installed can also be coded thru Intravee's i-Bus controller to have the mirrors "convenience" fold and unfold a bunch of ways.
Said and done once installed these mirrors will immediately power fold and unfold right away with just the use of the power folding mirror switch.


Luckily, I have an Intravee--I just didn't realize that I could program the mirrors that way--I'll try that tomorrow. I'd prefer to figure out how to do it with the GT1 or ISTAP so that I could pass along this information to others who may not have an Intravee...

More tomorrow...

[cakM3]

awesome Steve :thumbsup Can't wait to see this complete!

[sna77]

awesome Steve :thumbsup Can't wait to see this complete!

Me 2.. Although once I get them working with autofold, I'm probably going to rip them out and hire you to fit the motors into m3 bases. :)

[terraphantm]

I can probably help with the programming if the intravee doesn't work out. FWIW 03/2003+ E46s are a bit different electrically, so the intravee might not be able to do it on your specific car.

I suspect all it would take is adding option code 313 to the vehicle order and then recoding your general module. Assuming you did the wiring properly. While that can be done through DIS/Progman/ISTA/P, changing VO is much more convenient through NCS Expert. There won't be an option under the retrofits menu as this is not an option BMW sells as a retrofit kit.

[cakM3]

Me 2.. Although once I get them working with autofold, I'm probably going to rip them out and hire you to fit the motors into m3 bases. :)

Steve,

You got to get a body shop or someone who is good with cutting to do the Rogue Engineering mod to the baseplates. I hired someone else to do mine as well. I know how to run the ribbon cables and retrofit the motors into the OEM M3 mirror housing....I'm not comfortable with doing the baseplates. Just so you know...

Also there are additional holes that need to be drilled into the door. It requires measuring and rechecking prior to drilling just to make sure you have the right alignment of the mirrors....lots of work but as you can see.....well worth it in the end :)

[sna77]

I can probably help with the programming if the intravee doesn't work out. FWIW 03/2003+ E46s are a bit different electrically, so the intravee might not be able to do it on your specific car.

I suspect all it would take is adding option code 313 to the vehicle order and then recoding your general module. Assuming you did the wiring properly. While that can be done through DIS/Progman/ISTA/P, changing VO is much more convenient through NCS Expert. There won't be an option under the retrofits menu as this is not an option BMW sells as a retrofit kit.

Awesome, I will try this today and report back... thanks!

[sna77]

Steve,

You got to get a body shop or someone who is good with cutting to do the Rogue Engineering mod to the baseplates. I hired someone else to do mine as well. I know how to run the ribbon cables and retrofit the motors into the OEM M3 mirror housing....I'm not comfortable with doing the baseplates. Just so you know...

Also there are additional holes that need to be drilled into the door. It requires measuring and rechecking prior to drilling just to make sure you have the right alignment of the mirrors....lots of work but as you can see.....well worth it in the end :)

Got it... So these are the steps, in order correct?:

- Acquire M3 mirrors (any will do, right, they don't have to be the power fold ones since we are swapping motors, correct?)

- Modify baseplates per Rogue instructions.

- Drill holes in door and verify that M3 mirrors will fit OK

- move motors into M3 housing (i.e call Charlie).

- reassemble....

[cakM3]

That's correct Steve

[terraphantm]

Got it... So these are the steps, in order correct?:

- Acquire M3 mirrors (any will do, right, they don't have to be the power fold ones since we are swapping motors, correct?)

- Modify baseplates per Rogue instructions.

- Drill holes in door and verify that M3 mirrors will fit OK

- move motors into M3 housing (i.e call Charlie).

- reassemble....

The power folding motors from your sedan mirrors won't work. The m3 mirrors swivel up; the sedan mirrors fold in. I think the only motor that works (asides for the actual M3 motor) is the one from the E39 M5. The motors from a non-M coupe may also work... But I have not seen anyone test them

[cakM3]

terra is right in that the power folding motors will not work. Only the mirror motors will work with the ///M3 mirror housings. I misred the first part Steve, sorry... If you still want the autofold feature then you will need to get the OE ///M3 autofold mirrors. The mirror motors themselves will transfer over to the OE M3 mirror housings after you install a modded mirror motor baseplate. Easy to do.

[sna77]

I can probably help with the programming if the intravee doesn't work out. FWIW 03/2003+ E46s are a bit different electrically, so the intravee might not be able to do it on your specific car.

I suspect all it would take is adding option code 313 to the vehicle order and then recoding your general module. Assuming you did the wiring properly. While that can be done through DIS/Progman/ISTA/P, changing VO is much more convenient through NCS Expert. There won't be an option under the retrofits menu as this is not an option BMW sells as a retrofit kit.

Terra, Looked today and didn't see anywhere to do it in ISTA... I have a friend that has an Autologic though and he says that the Autologic can easily add code 313 to the car... So I'll see him later in the week to do that...

Since you knew the option code--do you happen to know the option code for this? Would love to have the Autologic turn this on while I'm there... thx

Fog lights on with high beams (LSZ)
FL_UND_NSW_NICHT_GLEICHZ
aktiv -> nicht_aktiv

[terraphantm]

Terra, Looked today and didn't see anywhere to do it in ISTA... I have a friend that has an Autologic though and he says that the Autologic can easily add code 313 to the car... So I'll see him later in the week to do that...

Since you knew the option code--do you happen to know the option code for this? Would love to have the Autologic turn this on while I'm there... thx

Fog lights on with high beams (LSZ)
FL_UND_NSW_NICHT_GLEICHZ
aktiv -> nicht_aktiv

Ista is a bit complicated - I don't specifically remember where the VO change function is. But I do know that it involves loading an XML file into ISTA with the desired VO. That highbeam/foglight feature isn't tied to a specific option code - the only VO change that can enable it would be recoding your car as a Euro 330 (changing EV53 to EV51). But that changes quite a few things. It's much easier to just enable the feature manually

Do you have your own interface to connect to the car? Would you be opposed to using NCS Expert?

[az3579]

Do you have your own interface to connect to the car? Would you be opposed to using NCS Expert?

I can assist you with this if you want, Steve...

[sna77]

Ista is a bit complicated - I don't specifically remember where the VO change function is. But I do know that it involves loading an XML file into ISTA with the desired VO. That highbeam/foglight feature isn't tied to a specific option code - the only VO change that can enable it would be recoding your car as a Euro 330 (changing EV53 to EV51). But that changes quite a few things. It's much easier to just enable the feature manually

Do you have your own interface to connect to the car? Would you be opposed to using NCS Expert?

Got it... if there is no option code, then we need to use NCS Expert--I have no desire to change the car to Euro mode...


I can assist you with this if you want, Steve...

I will take you up on this for sure--I'm going to try to code the mirrors with the Autologic first--because I want to prove that it can be done without NCS Expert... If it can't, then you'll have 2 things to code AZ3579. :)

Thank you both for your help... I'll report back later in the week after I've gotten to the Autlogic.

[terraphantm]

Autologic is capable of everything that NCS Expert is capable of. It's laid out differently, but all the functionality is there - including the ability to manually change parameters in individual modules

[sna77]

Interesting... I'll have my friend take a look when he looks at the mirrors.

[terraphantm]

Well this thread inspired me to convert my M3 mirrors into autofolding mirrors. I found a set of E39 M5 mirrors for a fairly reasonable price so I bought them. Going to swap the motors from the E39 mirrors into my mirrors, wire it up, and code. If anyone would like me to document the motor swap, I'd be more than happy to (in a different thread of course; don't want to completely hijack Steve's thread :P)

[sna77]

Well this thread inspired me to convert my M3 mirrors into autofolding mirrors. I found a set of E39 M5 mirrors for a fairly reasonable price so I bought them. Going to swap the motors from the E39 mirrors into my mirrors, wire it up, and code. If anyone would like me to document the motor swap, I'd be more than happy to (in a different thread of course; don't want to completely hijack Steve's thread :P)

Please document the process!!

Aren't the M5 mirrors wire and the ZHP mirrors ribbon? how will you get them to fit?

[terraphantm]

Please document the process!!

Aren't the M5 mirrors wire and the ZHP mirrors ribbon? how will you get them to fit?

Well I'll be fitting it to my m3, which stayed with the 6-pin/12-pin setup throughout the entire production run. In any case, I'm just using the folding motor; everything else will stay as is

In the case of the ZHP, I have a pretty good idea of how to do it. You would want to swap the mirror motors into the M3 mirror, and then splice the folding motor power leads into the ZHP's wiring. All 03/2003+ E46 mirrors actually have the power leads for the motor (at least my ZHP did), so it should just be a matter of finding the polarity and routing the wires carefully.

[sna77]

In the case of the ZHP, I have a pretty good idea of how to do it. You would want to swap the mirror motors into the M3 mirror, and then splice the folding motor power leads into the ZHP's wiring. All 03/2003+ E46 mirrors actually have the power leads for the motor (at least my ZHP did), so it should just be a matter of finding the polarity and routing the wires carefully.

This is the part I don't get... Not sure how you can splice those wires into the ribbon connectors?

[terraphantm]

This is the part I don't get... Not sure how you can splice those wires into the ribbon connectors?

http://gallery.me.com/jeremiahconnelly/100025/P1000166/medium.jpg

See that black connector? That powers the folding motors. It is a 3-pin plug, but only the outer two pins are used. That connector is present, but unused in E46s with manual folding mirrors and memory. Basically all you would have to do is solder a connector with 3 exposed pins onto the actual motors, and plug it into that black plug. There are many computer connectors that would work fine. You'll probably have to experiment to figure out which direction results in the proper polarity.

If you dismantle your OEM folding mirrors, you should find that black connector plugged into the motors

[danewilson77]

Yeah.....that looks hairy.

[sna77]

I can probably help with the programming if the intravee doesn't work out. FWIW 03/2003+ E46s are a bit different electrically, so the intravee might not be able to do it on your specific car.

I suspect all it would take is adding option code 313 to the vehicle order and then recoding your general module. Assuming you did the wiring properly. While that can be done through DIS/Progman/ISTA/P, changing VO is much more convenient through NCS Expert. There won't be an option under the retrofits menu as this is not an option BMW sells as a retrofit kit.

FYI... The Intravee did not successfully program the car...

Going to try the Autologic today.

[terraphantm]

Ugh, I'm going to have to put my project on hold. I tested the mirrors outside the car, and the driver side mirror I got isn't working properly. I opened it up and it turns out that a few of the gear teeth are missing. So much for "tested and in good working order". And unfortunately, the gears look completely custom, so I can't even just find new internal pieces and rebuild it.

Passenger side is perfect.

[sna77]

Got it working!

Took about 30 seconds with the Autologic. Simply added 313 to the Vehicle Order (VO) then coded the GM... And voila! Works perfectly.

The only negative is that the Intravee is unable to program the mirrors to fold in when locking the car. Bummer. Is this something NCS Expert can do? I'd love to be able to have the mirrors fold in when holding the lock button for 5 seconds etc.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNudJFkCrz0&feature=youtu.be

[terraphantm]

Got it working!

Took about 30 seconds with the Autologic. Simply added 313 to the Vehicle Order (VO) then coded the GM... And voila! Works perfectly.

The only negative is that the Intravee is unable to program the mirrors to fold in when locking the car. Bummer. Is this something NCS Expert can do? I'd love to be able to have the mirrors fold in when holding the lock button for 5 seconds etc.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNudJFkCrz0&feature=youtu.be


Are your windows programmed to close via remote? If not, I think enabling that feature might simultaneously enable the mirror folding on holding the lock button. Otherwise there should be a line that enables the feature somewhere.

[sna77]

Are your windows programmed to close via remote? If not, I think enabling that feature might simultaneously enable the mirror folding on holding the lock button. Otherwise there should be a line that enables the feature somewhere.

They are not... I have no idea how to do that, and saw no options for it in the Autologic... You think that a GT1 can do that now that the 313 VO is on the car?

[terraphantm]

They are not... I have no idea how to do that, and saw no options for it in the Autologic... You think that a GT1 can do that now that the 313 VO is on the car?

No. As far as I can tell, the only function that will activate that function is tied to the convenience closing feature. It looks like that feature is enabled automatically with the 313 VO, but since convenience closing via remote is a euro-only feature, it has to be enabled manually. I know autologic can do it, but I've just never used one so I can't really give directions. Autologic does have some kind of FSW_PSW capabilties. NCS is probably your best bet if he can't figure out how to do it via autologic.

Out of curiosity, have you tried closing the windows through the lock cylinder? Do the mirrors fold in when you do that?

[sna77]

I can only roll down my windows via the lock key... not roll up... unless I'm missing something?

[Pip]

I'm completely lost with this intravee, autologic, acronym, etc. This is why I don't want to take this project on. hmm... any advice that would provide motivation to learn about it so I can possibly do it down the line?

[terraphantm]

I can only roll down my windows via the lock key... not roll up... unless I'm missing something?

Wait, your windows don't close if you stick your key in the door and hold it to the right? That should be enabled by default on all E46s.

[sna77]

I'm completely lost with this intravee, autologic, acronym, etc. This is why I don't want to take this project on. hmm... any advice that would provide motivation to learn about it so I can possibly do it down the line?

Intravee is an iPod adapter for cars with Nav. I happen to have it already... As a side feature, you can do some basic mods with it. Details here:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=679659

An Autologic is a tool independent BMW dealers would have. It costs about $20k, so a shop would do the programming for you.

I hope to document exactly what commands the Autlogic would need so anyone doing this mod could install the mirrors themselves, then take the commands to the shop to have the shop code.

AutoLogic:
http://www.newhallbmwspecialists.com/images/autologic-unit-1.jpg


Wait, your windows don't close if you stick your key in the door and hold it to the right? That should be enabled by default on all E46s.

Just tried this... Apparently they do. That literally was the first time that I've ever put the key in the lock. Ideally I'd be able to flip the mirrors from the remote.I hope to never stick the key in the lock again.

[terraphantm]

Intravee is an iPod adapter for cars with Nav. I happen to have it already... As a side feature, you can do some basic mods with it. Details here:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=679659

An Autologic is a tool independent BMW dealers would have. It costs about $20k, so a shop would do the programming for you.

I hope to document exactly what commands the Autlogic would need so anyone doing this mod could install the mirrors themselves, then take the commands to the shop to have the shop code.

AutoLogic:
http://www.newhallbmwspecialists.com/images/autologic-unit-1.jpg



Just tried this... Apparently they do. That literally was the first time that I've ever put the key in the lock. Ideally I'd be able to flip the mirrors from the remote.I hope to never stick the key in the lock again.

Okay so the mirrors do fold in if you do that? Then it is possible to enable them to fold with the remote - you just have to enable the convenience closing feature. I know the function is somewhere in autologic, but I don't know how to get there. A "local" shop near me (really more like 100 miles away) did offer to enable the widnows closing feature via their autologic.

[sna77]

Okay so the mirrors do fold in if you do that? Then it is possible to enable them to fold with the remote - you just have to enable the convenience closing feature. I know the function is somewhere in autologic, but I don't know how to get there. A "local" shop near me (really more like 100 miles away) did offer to enable the widnows closing feature via their autologic.

The mirrors do not fold in when using the key in the door.

I'll call my shop and see if their Autlogic can enable Windows Closing Convenience feature via Autologic. If not, is this something NCS Coder can enable? I assume the GT1 / ISTA cannot enable this?

[terraphantm]

The mirrors do not fold in when using the key in the door.

I'll call my shop and see if their Autlogic can enable Windows Closing Convenience feature via Autologic. If not, is this something NCS Coder can enable? I assume the GT1 / ISTA cannot enable this?

Okay well since the mirrors do not fold in I will have to take a closer look (maybe when I do my car next week), but I'm fairly sure it's possible

The convenience windows closing feature is definitely something NCS Expert can enable. GT1/ISTA cannot enable it unless you're willing to convert the car to euro-spec (technically the feature is illegal in the US as per some restrictions in the FMVSS)

[sna77]

Okay well since the mirrors do not fold in I will have to take a closer look (maybe when I do my car next week), but I'm fairly sure it's possible

The convenience windows closing feature is definitely something NCS Expert can enable. GT1/ISTA cannot enable it unless you're willing to convert the car to euro-spec (technically the feature is illegal in the US as per some restrictions in the FMVSS)

Got it... And you think that enabling convenience key for the windows, will allow the Intravee to modify the mirrors, correct?

[terraphantm]

Got it... And you think that enabling convenience key for the windows, will allow the Intravee to modify the mirrors, correct?

I think it will allow your mirrors to fold when you hold the lock button. I don't think the intravee will be capable of changing the settings without a software update from the intravee guys.

[sna77]

perfect--exactly what I want to do.

[sna77]

Okay well since the mirrors do not fold in I will have to take a closer look (maybe when I do my car next week), but I'm fairly sure it's possible

The convenience windows closing feature is definitely something NCS Expert can enable. GT1/ISTA cannot enable it unless you're willing to convert the car to euro-spec (technically the feature is illegal in the US as per some restrictions in the FMVSS)

So stopped by my friend's shop today to try to code the mirrors for convenience key. There is an option in the Autlogic for convenience window closing that we can see in demo mode. When connected to my car however it says module not installed. My friend believes this to be that the Lin bus is not supported for this option--that Autologic is looking for the older style mirrors.

We took log files and sent them to Autologic. Will report back when we hear back.

[terraphantm]

So stopped by my friend's shop today to try to code the mirrors for convenience key. There is an option in the Autlogic for convenience window closing that we can see in demo mode. When connected to my car however it says module not installed. My friend believes this to be that the Lin bus is not supported for this option--that Autologic is looking for the older style mirrors.

We took log files and sent them to Autologic. Will report back when we hear back.

The parameter to enable convenience closing of the mirrors is enabled by default on Lin-bus cars with option code 313 - or at least it is when using the BMW software to code that option. Thing is, the function is tied to the convenience closing of the windows.

[sna77]

going back to try that tomorrow. :)

[sna77]

And it's working!

Terra--THANK YOU for your assistance. It has been invaluable. You are correct that the convenience closing of the mirrors is the feature that needs to be enabled when using an Autologic. Check out the video of it in action!

To program it in the Autologic:

under:
CAR/KEY MEMORY >> CENTRAL BODY ELECTRONICS >> WINDOW REGULATORS

enable:
CONVENIENT CLOSING RC and CONVENIENT OPENING RC.

and voila!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zGMVpA96_A&feature=youtu.be

[terraphantm]

And it's working!

Terra--THANK YOU for your assistance. It has been invaluable. You are correct that the convenience closing of the mirrors is the feature that needs to be enabled when using an Autologic. Check out the video of it in action!

To program it in the Autologic:

under:
CAR/KEY MEMORY >> CENTRAL BODY ELECTRONICS >> WINDOW REGULATORS

enable:
CONVENIENT CLOSING RC and CONVENIENT OPENING RC.

and voila!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zGMVpA96_A&feature=youtu.be

Awesome, glad to help!

I do want to make one clarification - whether using NCS or Autologic, the convenience closing feature has to be enabled for the mirrors to fold - its not an autologic only quirk. There are two parameters of interest if you look at the module. One activates convenience closing in general, the other enables it for the mirror. The latter is enabled by default (only on ribbon e46s with SA313); the former is only enabled on euro e46s. That's what I meant when I said it's tied to that function.

[derbo]

this thread is very invaluable! Thanks for sharing information guys!

[johnrando]

That is so cool!

[terraphantm]

hey Steve, I just saw the video - just want to point out that you don't need to hold the unlock button to unfold them. It's just folding them where the lock button has to be held down for a second.

[sna77]

Yup--I discovered that the next morning and I just unlocked my doors, and the mirrors swung open. ;)

[Tnhl1989]

Lovely work Steve. I'm trying to figure out how to do this with m3 mirrors instead.

[MrMaico]

Lovely work Steve. I'm trying to figure out how to do this with m3 mirrors instead.

This might have some info for you.......

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?7122-DIY-Converting-Manual-folding-M3-Mirrors-into-Power-Folding-No-56K