Red Line MTL vs Royal Purple Synchromax

[kayger12]

Just got done running 16K miles with RP in the Getrag and have now switched over and put a little over 100 miles on her with Red Line MTL in the gearbox and figured I'd start a review thread for comparative purposes. I really went back and forth between these two last time, and was just as up in the air this time over going Red Line or Pentosin.

Please feel free to jump in with your impressions as well. Would love for this thread to turn into a useful resource. I hope this thread eventually serves to help those who are on the fence.

So, without further ado...

Royal Purple: When I switched what I'm assuming was the OEM Pentosin out of the box at about 48K for RP, I was impressed. The RP shifted much smoother when cold and had an overall better feel to me. I've read that this is due to the fact that Synchromax is thinner than the Pentosin (or Red Line for that matter). At that point I pretty much resolved not to go back to Pentosin.

I never had a single complaint about the RP. So why the switch out? Because frankly, even from the start, I had some concerns about the random reports of RP shearing in transmissions that were floating around the net. Every now and again I'd catch a post on BITOG or a BMW site where someone felt that the RP was breaking down rather quickly. Terra from our site had a report of metal shavings from his trans after running RP for around 10-15K, iirc. So while I was encouraged by all of the positive reports about the feel of RP, I always had a little bit of concern. Because of this, my plan was to switch the fluid out at 15K and send it off to Blackstone to get some actual hard data with reference to its performance.

The Blackstone sample is off in the mail (along with a RP MaxGear sample from the diff) and I'm eagerly awaiting the results. Update to follow...
Update: The Blackstone results are in, and it looks like the RP performed quite well. With this in mind, I wouldn't hesitate to go back to RP in the future. We'll see how the Red Line tests after about 30K.
http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff401/Kayger12/Getrag.jpg


Red Line MTL: Initial impressions-- LOVE the feel of the trans with the MTL in there. It feels noticeably more... precise, I guess is the word I'm going for. I find it just as smooth getting into and through the gears, but I like the feedback I get from the shifter better with the MTL than the RP.

The time for cold weather has passed here in the northeast, so I won't be able to comment on the cold performance for a while.

Again, these are my initial impressions after only about 100 miles.

I'll check back in down the road and update further.

[zhpnsnv]

I've used stock and RL and both seem to do a satisfactory job as far as feel goes. RL has better initial feel but it all evens out over time. I switch every 30k. Did it when I got the car at 30k with RL, then stock at 60, now at 95 I'll prob go back to RL provided that I pick some up before the next service.

I know it's unscientific but I go on how easy it is to get into reverse when cold. I'm definitely overdue right now.

[zhp43867]

Thanks for the input! I'll take it into account when I do my swap and decide between RL and BMW fluid.

[danewilson77]

Sounds great KG. Logic is sound. I loved the RL as well.... But recently switched to Pentosin MTF2, just to switch it up. Initial imprsssion: love it.

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[kayger12]

Thanks for the input! I'll take it into account when I do my swap and decide between RL and BMW fluid.

Your post about the RP issues is what prompted me to get moving.

I'll owe you a big thank you if my Blackstone reports come back showing abnormal wear.

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[kayger12]

Sounds great KG. Logic is sound. I loved the RL as well.... But recently switched to Pentosin MTF2, just to switch it up. Initial imprsssion: love it.

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Good deal, DW.

I was really considering Pentosin this time around. Couldn't bring myself to pay $14 for shipping (ecs).

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[johnnyrad]

Great thread Keith. I am somewhat confused on the two. I have RP Syncromax in both my cars and I really like it, they both shift nicely but after I received Mike Miller's maintence schedule and saw he uses RL in his tranny I now have second thoughts. I'm even considering using the RL oil for the engine... Can't wait to see what your Blackstone report comes back with.

[kayger12]

Thanks, Johnny. Felt the same way about RP. Loved the feel-- just couldn't shake the second thoughts.

Should hear back from Blackstone by the end of the week.

[zhp43867]

I'm looking forward to seeing those results!

[brettbimmer]

I haven't heard of anyone dropping a transmission in the street using RL, RP, or OEM, but I have run Red Line for years in my manual E36, and it still shifts really well for a car with 235K miles on the original transmission, including reverse. Hopefully that means that we will be able to keep the ZHPs on the road for many, many years with proper change intervals. I'm in the 30K mile change club too. Cost of the fluid is a lot cheaper then replacing mechanical parts. Blackstone Labs report should be interesting when it comes back. Good thread Keith - Thanks!

[kayger12]

Good info, Brett. Would love to be on the original trans at 235K.

[nike001]

How much fluid is needed? Based on this thread, I think I'll be ordering Red Line in the near future. Any recommended retailers to purchase from?

[danewilson77]

How much fluid is needed? Based on this thread, I think I'll be ordering Red Line in the near future. Any recommended retailers to purchase from?

2qts. I get mine from ECS.

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[nike001]

2qts. I get mine from ECS.

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Thank you

[danewilson77]

Thank you

You're welcome.

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[kayger12]

I bought from Amazon via the affiliate link.

Free shipping thanks to Prime.

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[danewilson77]

Make sure your fluid transfer hoses are clean!

I was debating on whether or not to clean it out.....because it looked like there was maybe 1 cc of fluid in the there.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/th_VIDEO0039.jpg (http://s1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/?action=view&current=VIDEO0039.mp4)

[kayger12]

^ Good tip.

[spencers]

Rock on. I love MTL.

[quikryptonite]

Any thoughts on RL D4 ATF vs RL 75w90 for those of us with 6MT? Pros and cons of cold weather use, is it really going to make a difference if I am not racing/tracking my car?

[nike001]

My car has trouble getting into 1st sometimes.. so I'll be doing this soon. Which bottle do I get?

ECS has 3 different bottles listed:http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Search/Redline/

[danewilson77]

My car has trouble getting into 1st sometimes.. so I'll be doing this soon. Which bottle do I get?

ECS has 3 different bottles listed:http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Search/Redline/

Read the red writing.

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[kayger12]

Miller says D4 ATF for people who's shifting he doesn't trust, MTL for everyone else...

[nike001]

Read the red writing.

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I did... But I don't know if mine has such a 'label.' Which is why I asked.

[danewilson77]

I did... But I don't know if mine has such a 'label.' Which is why I asked.

You should look.

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[nike001]

You should look.

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You seem to be getting flustered with me. I'm just unsure on where this particular label would be located; I don't want to order the wrong fluid. :dunno

[kayger12]

I did... But I don't know if mine has such a 'label.' Which is why I asked.

Pulling my thoughts from the other thread to here-- my understanding is that all ZHPs got the Getrag 6spd transmission... in which case all ZHPs get MTF-2 fluid (75W80)... which would be the Pentosin MTF-2, or Red Line MTL, or RP Synchromax...

[nike001]

Pulling my thoughts from the other thread to here-- my understanding is that all ZHPs got the Getrag 6spd transmission... in which case all ZHPs get MTF-2 fluid (75W80)... which would be the Pentosin MTF-2, or Red Line MTL, or RP Synchromax...

Awesome. I just saw other people asking in the other thread about the label as well. Thanks for the info. So on my buy list i have 2qts of this and 2qts for my diff. I'll have to set aside a day one of these weekends as a fluid weekend!

[johnnyrad]

ECS has 3 different bottles listed:http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Search/Redline/

Your link is to the engine oil. You don't want that in your tranny? Or your car would give you this :foottap.... :)

Seriously tho, Keith is correct. Get the Redline MTL or RP Syncromax and you should be good.

[kayger12]

Good deal. I have a feeling the label pertains to some of the 5 spd manual transmissions.

[nike001]

Your link is to the engine oil. You don't want that in your tranny? Or your car would give you this :foottap.... :)

Seriously tho, Keith is correct. Get the Redline MTL or RP Syncromax and you should be good.

Scroll down more.. theres engine oil and then below that is the tranny fluid :)



Good deal. I have a feeling the label pertains to some of the 5 spd manual transmissions.

That's a good thought.. because I'm sure that since we all have pretty much the same car, I don't see any reason that any of us would have different transmissions or at least ones that would call for different fluids.

[danewilson77]

Your link is to the engine oil. You don't want that in your tranny? Or your car would give you this :foottap.... :)

Seriously tho, Keith is correct. Get the Redline MTL or RP Syncromax and you should be good.

No. Link brings up tranny fluid for me.

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[johnnyrad]

Scroll down more.. theres engine oil and then below that is the tranny fluid

It would appear that scrolling would apply in this situation and negate my comment.
I'm out....as George Costanza would say. :)

[MrMaico]

Looking forward to seeing what Blackstone has to say Keith.

Shortly after buying my car I switched to RP and removed the CDV at the same time. Shifting felt better but I wasn't sure which change made the difference. Like you I started to have second thoughts about the RP so after about 8,000 miles I switched to Pentosin. Can't say I felt any difference between it and the RP. 14,000 miles so far on the Pentosin.

[kayger12]

Hoping to hear from BStone today.

After a week of driving with the Red Line, I can say it is definitely a little notchier/tougher getting into first gear when cold.

Other than that, I like the shifting feel better.

It is definitely noticeable versus the Royal Purple, though.

[MrMaico]

Hoping to hear from BStone today.

After a week of driving with the Red Line, I can say it is definitely a little notchier/tougher getting into first gear when cold.

Other than that, I like the shifting feel better.

It is definitely noticeable versus the Royal Purple, though.

Could it be just the fresh, thicker fluid maybe? No idea how long it might take until it might thin out a bit though. I know whenever i drain a gearbox or diff and especially engine oil, it always seems thinner than when new.

The Pentosin I have in now also makes it tough to get into 1st when cold but it's gone by the next stoplight.

[kayger12]

Could it be just the fresh, thicker fluid maybe? No idea how long it might take until it might thin out a bit though. I know whenever i drain a gearbox or diff and especially engine oil, it always seems thinner than when new.

The Pentosin I have in now also makes it tough to get into 1st when cold but it's gone by the next stoplight.

I don't think so. The RP shifted great right from the start.

It's nothing that's problematic- just different I guess.

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[kayger12]

Original post updated with the Blackstone report on the Royal Purple Synchromax.

The RP performed very well.

[danewilson77]

Good deal KG. Diff is one thing. Glad the tranny is pristine.

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