Help with Suspension Overhaul

[nike001]

Alright, so I'm 99% sure that my rear suspension is done for. Now I'm shopping around for a new set-up. I'm about set on the H&R Sport Cup Kit. Are there any other parts that I should look into getting? I already know/plan on getting the reinforcement plates from turner for the front, should I get the rear as well? Any other bushings or mounts that I should get as well? I have limited knowledge when it comes to suspension components so any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Dalton

[bimmeryota]

Depending on the mileage, RTABs may need to be replaced. I'd also do rear shock mounts and consider the front control arm bushings, again depending on mileage.
Heard good things about the sport cup kit too...

[nike001]

~117,500 miles. Also, my FCAB's were done last summer.

[danewilson77]

RSM / FSM.

May want to pick up the ECS HD kit with includes Meyle HD RSM's and plates.

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[derbo]

Usually the RTAB of the newer facelifted sedans are the updated trailing arms bushings. I haven't seen the RTAB go out on many of them around here. You can inspect them with a flashlight when you jack up the rear.

Since you are set on what struts/springs you want, I would suggest rear strut mounts for the rear. Turner or Ground Control or RE or Vorshlag all sell a upgraded RSM.

I use Ground Control RSM with my coilovers.

http://www.ground-control-store.com/images/fullsize/BMWMOUNTFULL_fs.jpg

Instead of the front reinforcement plates, why not get a front strut bar. It does the same purpose but on the other side of the FSM plus gives you a little more rigidity in the front.


Keep in mind that the H&R kit wants you to use your existing mounts and requires disassembly of your original shocks. I personally like to buy new top hats so I can assemble the suspension prior to removal of the old one and do a swap-per-roo to minimize time on the the jackstands. :)

[danewilson77]

My strut tower cracked with a strut bar installed....just as an FYI. The TMS rough road kit and strut bar will prevent this.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/VanosStrutmountcrack-1.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6541135335_9d72591260_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dw77zhpmafia/6541135335/)
BMW Reinforcement kit Installed (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dw77zhpmafia/6541135335/) by Dane Wilson77 (http://www.flickr.com/people/dw77zhpmafia/), on Flickr

[derbo]

Thats rough dane. :X

[danewilson77]

Thats rough dane. :X

LOL...pics added :/

[nk_zhp]

Re: the plates vs strut brace. They don't provide equal level of protection from cracking. You want the plates from underneath so that the force upwards is spread around the entire (or almost entire) area inside the tower. With the strut brace you are simply adding an extra layer on the top that might resist the crack to get pushed up more but the formation of the crack will not be prevented.

[nike001]

Okay so:
-Front & Rear strut mounts
-Front & Rear reinforcement plates
-RTABs

That sound about right? Also, I never fully "believed" that a strut brace/bar does anything noticeable to the car that it's installed on.


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[danewilson77]

Yup....assuming amp = rear.

[derbo]

ouch. Looks like I got two parts to order on my list ;)



Actually. I have GC Camber plates. http://www.ground-control-store.com/images/fullsize/CCPE46STREET_fs.jpg

From the looks of it, the reinforcement plates would prevent some camber adjustment because of the lip?

[nike001]

Yup....assuming amp = rear.

Yeah. My iPhone did that when I hit submit... not sure why.


ouch. Looks like I got two parts to order on my list ;)



Actually. I have GC Camber plates. http://www.ground-control-store.com/images/fullsize/CCPE46STREET_fs.jpg

From the looks of it, the reinforcement plates would prevent some camber adjustment because of the lip?

That IMG is broken. I'd think that the reinforcement plates would prevent SOME adjustment.. but not a whole lot.


My list, with links:
H&R Sport Cup Kit:http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Suspension/Suspension_Kits/ES10805/ (feel free to point me to a cheaper retailer for this kit)
Front Upper Strut Mount Reinforcement Plate:http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Suspension/Strut_Bar/ES128656/
Rear Upper Shock Mount:http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Suspension/Shocks/Mount/ES2075240/?salesrep=JHorak&utm_source=e46fanatics&utm_medium=forum&utm_content=JHorak&utm_campaign=postreply
RTABS: http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Search/Trailing_Arm_Bushing/ES57711/ 2x

[LivesNearCostco]

Derbo, I have the OEM reinforcement plates with GC street camber plates and don't think the lip interferes up to -2.0 on the plates (about -3.0 total). But it might interfere with GC Race camber plates. And apparently it interferes (unless trimmed) with Vorshlag camber plates if you're trying to get a lotta lotta negative camber. Can you move beyond the -2.0 mark on your GC street plates? Or do you have the GC hybrid or race plates?

[derbo]

I'm running close to it. I don't remember. I'll have to run out to the car and check when I get a chance. I have the street plates and if it works for you then that should be okay for me. I run -3.1 camber in the front.


/end threadjack



Dalton,

That list looks good!

You would need this bushing. http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Search/Trailing_Arm_Bushing/ES57711/


I would check final costs after shipping from turner as well. Since you are on east coast it could be cheaper from after shipping costs, but I could be wrong.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3640-e46-325-328-330ici-with-sport-package-hr-cup-kit.aspx

[nike001]

Thanks Derek! I just checked prices after shipping, and ECS is still $40 cheaper!

Also, Should I get 4 strut reinforcements? It says front upper, but I'm not seeing any options for rear reinforcements.

[derbo]

You need 2 reinforcement plates for the front since that gold piece in the Meyle HD RSM is the reinforcement I believe.

[nike001]

You need 2 reinforcement plates for the front since that gold piece in the Meyle HD RSM is the reinforcement I believe.

Yup, Just figured that out.. lol

Over at E46F, they're saying to get A LOT more parts. Look at post #7 by Solidjake, do you think that I need all/any of that?
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14185206&posted=1#post14185206

[aurelius]

If you're committed to doing the RTABs, be sure the part number corresponds to the updated version which originally appeared in the MZ4. It's also known as the "updated E46 M3 RTAB."

Derbo implies above that these may already be installed from factory in later E46 models. Which if correct would be good news as it would make RTAB replacement unnecessary in most ZHPs. Can anyone confirm this?

Also consider the Vorshlag RTAB limiters. More info on their site. They sell em paired with the proper RTABs.

Beware the RTAB job involves a lot of labor on these cars.

[danewilson77]

This is the kit I was going to go with. The ones you have above.


http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Suspension/Shocks/Mount/ES2075240/?salesrep=JHorak&utm_source=e46fanatics&utm_medium =forum&utm_content=JHorak&utm_campaign=postreply
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[derbo]

The RTAB limiters were so easy to install! You do need an alignment after installing them since the toe alignments bolts are removed for installation.

A technician that has been working at my dealership since at least the beginning of the e28 days said he never replaced a face lifted RTAB. It usually occurs in the 323 328 and older 325/330s.

I know my car has the updated trailing arm bushings and it's service history did not show any records of them vein replaced. A few of the ZHPs that were on the lifts that I looked up also had the updated RTAB. Another technicians 325i 04 has the updated RTAB. I'm not 100% sure all of them are but from the ones I've seen it seems likely.


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[nike001]

So if mine have the updated RTAB's should I still get new ones? Terra said he has a spare set of M3 ones that he'd sell to me for ~$40.

How do I tell if mine are the updated ones?

[aurelius]

There was a whole batch of unpublished updates given to the E46 in March '01 and again in March '03. Speculation but I'd bet the updated RTABs came with the latter.

[nike001]

I have an '04 build date, so I should be good right? Even if I am, should I replace anyways? For $40 I might as well.. right?

[danewilson77]

I have an '04 build date, so I should be good right? Even if I am, should I replace anyways? For $40 I might as well.. right?

Go ahead. If they need it.

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[derbo]

The labor involved to remove it sucks.


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[aurelius]

^^^ It ain't pretty either. See pics on Vorshlag's site.

[Burrogs]

FWIW, I just replaced my old RTABs (92k miles) with the updated M3/Z4M bushings and Vorshlag limiters. I have a MY 04 ZHP and the old bushings were not the same as the new ones (different part numbers). While the old ones looked ok, I can definitely tell a difference now that the new ones and limiters are installed. I broke down and bought the MIS tool which made install a breeze.

[aurelius]

Enlightening, with part numbers:

http://www.mistools.net/shop/page/5?shop_param

[derbo]

Guess I was wrong about all of them having it. :( Good job finding out there is a difference!

[aurelius]

Per their email received today, ecstuning is selling E46 suspension refresh kits.

[nike001]

Per their email received today, ecstuning is selling E46 suspension refresh kits.

I just got that too. But I saw it yesterday when browsing their site. It's pretty much only bushings. No shock & strut combos


I get more and more mad every day I drive my car now. My front end gets a little wobble to it when I press the brake lightly. What could that be? Or will I get lucky and just have that one blown too?

[aurelius]

I get more and more mad every day I drive my car now. My front end gets a little wobble to it when I press the brake lightly. What could that be? Or will I get lucky and just have that one blown too?

Likely LCABs or mildly warped front brake rotors. Not uncommon for replacement LCABs to be installed incorrectly. Also if your front wheels are or were out of balance, that will accelerate LCAB wear, especially with with how heavy the ZHP wheels are.

[nike001]

My rotors definitely aren't warped. They're almost brand new... Only 7k miles and I rarely use them.

[aurelius]

My rotors definitely aren't warped. They're almost brand new... Only 7k miles and I rarely use them.

A+ for advance planning!

[RVAzhp]

I just got that too. But I saw it yesterday when browsing their site. It's pretty much only bushings. No shock & strut combos


I get more and more mad every day I drive my car now. My front end gets a little wobble to it when I press the brake lightly. What could that be? Or will I get lucky and just have that one blown too?
LCABs is my guess.

[danewilson77]

LCABs is my guess.

+1....

[nike001]

Okay. Maybe at work tomorrow I can get someone to throw it on a lift for 5 minutes. How much or how many (shop) hours will this cost me to get shocks and struts installed?

[danewilson77]

Okay. Maybe at work tomorrow I can get someone to throw it on a lift for 5 minutes. How much or how many (shop) hours will this cost me to get shocks and struts installed?

I would say at least 4 hours minimum.

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[nike001]

I would say at least 4 hours minimum.

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I gotta find a friend that will help me then.. lol. Definitely don't feel like getting crushed for installation charges as well

[danewilson77]

I gotta find a friend that will help me then.. lol. Definitely don't feel like getting crushed for installation charges as well

I'll help.

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[nike001]

I'll help.

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Thanks for offering! I'll let you know if I decide to take a trip to VA :headbang

[johnrando]

Okay. Maybe at work tomorrow I can get someone to throw it on a lift for 5 minutes. How much or how many (shop) hours will this cost me to get shocks and struts installed?

There's an Indy shop out here (San Diego actually) Migs Motorsports that does shocks/struts for $150 flat rate, which thanks to Gary is where I got mine done. I agree with the posts that in general, shops will charge a lot to do it, but you might be able to find someone cheaper or DIY with Sir Dane. Plus, it really only takes an hour or so, but they'll charge for more.

[LivesNearCostco]

Wow, I would say $150 is a very good rate if the front struts come with new springs, boots, perches, and strut hats, so they don't have to compress the old springs and take apart the old struts. If that price includes compressing two sets of springs (old and new), then that's a super duper good price! If I owned a shop I'd probably charge 4 hours labor, maybe 3 if the old struts didn't have to be taken apart.

[derbo]

Socal has huge competition for these things so it drives down the price!

[johnrando]

Wow, I would say $150 is a very good rate if the front struts come with new springs, boots, perches, and strut hats, so they don't have to compress the old springs and take apart the old struts. If that price includes compressing two sets of springs (old and new), then that's a super duper good price! If I owned a shop I'd probably charge 4 hours labor, maybe 3 if the old struts didn't have to be taken apart.

Yes, it included compressing the springs.

[danewilson77]

There's an Indy shop out here (San Diego actually) Migs Motorsports that does shocks/struts for $150 flat rate, which thanks to Gary is where I got mine done. I agree with the posts that in general, shops will charge a lot to do it, but you might be able to find someone cheaper or DIY with Sir Dane. Plus, it really only takes an hour or so, but they'll charge for more.

1 hour per corner... Is what I usually plan on. I inspect and clean though. I think 1 hour total is pretty enthusiastic.

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[johnrando]

1 hour per corner... Is what I usually plan on. I inspect and clean though. I think 1 hour total is pretty enthusiastic.

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It may have been 90 minutes I don't recall, but it was quick. We hung out the whole time he was doing it. Of course, it's primarily suspension shop so he has a lift, all the tools, etc.

[nike001]

I got quoted $1,000 at my dealer for employee pricing on parts and labor since labor for me is $40/hr. It'll end up being close to $800 for me if I go H&R sport cup from tire rack since BMW gets parts at cost from them so cost for them is ~$600 and shipping is $20. With all parts and odds and ends needed and me driving away, I guess $800 isn't that bad.


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[LivesNearCostco]

JR, those guys at Migs are FAST! I think if I had a lift, air tools, and professional spring compressor mounted on a stand, it would still take me minimum 2 hours to install struts and springs on an E46, and that's if the owner had already removed the trunk liners and the sound insulation that covers the rear shock towers (at least in a sedan). Of course I've only done it 2 or 3 times and could see myself getting faster with practice. Or if the rear shock mounts already have the inverted studs with reinforcement plate, so you don't have to go through the trunk.

[johnrando]

And remember, much easier on a vert for the rears. Just partially raise the top and it's all there for you.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc481/johnrando/DSC_0226.jpg

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc481/johnrando/DSC_0217-1.jpg

[danewilson77]

^That's nice.

[nike001]

^That's nice.

Lucky vert fellas -___-

[johnrando]

Yes, it does make it easier. Nice to have some other advantages to go with the 1-off parts and extra weight (besides the top I mean). Lots of times I'll see something and it's n/a for verts. Separately, I kinda like that pic too. EDIT: In fact, I'm gonna post it in the daily zhp pic thread now that I think of it.