Thinking About A BMW E90.

[zhp43867]

So my zhp is extensively damaged and it may be totaled, it's on the line. I love the torque and the quieter interior of the E90. I feel like the E90 has more torque than my zhp, even though my zhp is rated to have more. Is it just me, or is the E90 330 torquier? Convince me to stick with the (or another) zhp... :crying

[Marcus-SanDiego]

My suggestion is to look around for a ZHP. Then, once you've test driven one, you should go and test drive an E90 330. Try to drive them back to back.

I personally prefer the ZHP over the E90 330 (2006). Not long ago, in fact, I had an E90 328 (2007). I'd take my ZHP every day of the week over that E90. But that's me.

You've simply got to make the choice that makes the most sense for you.

Best of luck on whatever you decide.

[zhp43867]

My suggestion is to look around for a ZHP. Then, once you've test driven one, you should go and test drive an E90 330. Try to drive them back to back.

I personally prefer the ZHP over the E90 330 (2006). Not long ago, in fact, I had an E90 328 (2007). I'd take my ZHP every day of the week over that E90. But that's me.

You've simply got to make the choice that makes the most sense for you.

Best of luck on whatever you decide.

I drive my mom's E90 328 regularly. Does it have more torque or is it just me? It seems like it winds up much faster too... is something wrong with my car?

[Marcus-SanDiego]

It's been a while since I drove that E90. But I remember it being pretty strong for a 230HP engine. Decent torque. The E90 330, though, has even more HP (255, I believe).

You should check out Kris's review of both cars. He did a good job of detailing the differences.

http://www.linquist.net/motorsports/articles/e90comparo

[kayger12]

What's the mileage on your ZHP and did you do the Vanos rebuild yet?

My 325 had 100k when I did the Vanos and I swear it was like a new motor was dropped in the car. Huge difference in torque. Now mind you, my Vanos had gotten so bad that the car was actually bogging down enough to stall with the AC on.

Like Mark suggested, drive both and decide which you like more.

I personally never liked the e90s visually, but that's me.

[mimalmo]

I'd do an E46 M3 before an E90 330i

[kayger12]

I'd do an E46 M3 before an E90 330i

Most certainly.

[mimalmo]

The E90 330i can look good though. Here's a local E90 that turned out great.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413470

[Marcus-SanDiego]

The E90 330i can look good though. Here's a local E90 that turned out great.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413470

Yep. Chad's car looks good. Those Works look good on it, too.

[az3579]

The only way a pre-facelift E90 can possibly look good to me is with an M-Tech body kit. Otherwise, they look boring and uninspired to me.
I think you do sacrifice a little bit of road feel with an E90. Don't they have electric steering? That numbs the driving experience. You really should drive them back to back to decide.

[zhp43867]

Thanks Kayger. 138k no vanos rebuild, but no noise. Anybody have any input on the difference when replacing a vanos that doesn't feel like it has gone "bad"?

I don't prefer E90 styling to e46, but I don't find it objectionable.

[danewilson77]

No....

[kayger12]

Thanks Kayger. 138k no vanos rebuild, but no noise. Anybody have any input on the difference when replacing a vanos that doesn't feel like it has gone "bad"?

I don't prefer E90 styling to e46, but I don't find it objectionable.

At 138k, I'm betting that's your issue. My car only stalled twice with the AC on-- otherwise I had no symptoms. Did a little reading on BF.c and then at Beisan and figured the seals were bad even though I really had no other symptoms. The car had 95k on it when I bought it so it was already shot, I just never realized how much torque was missing (had nothing to compare it to).

I also got a big boost in fuel mileage after the Vanos-- almost 2 mpg with no change in driving style.

Even if the Vanos is the issue, though, you may find that you like the e90 better either way.

[zhp43867]

I don't like the E90 better overall, I just want the torque of the E90s... I like almost everything else about my zhp better. One other thing I like about the E90 is that it has less road noise. It doesn't make up for its other faults though. I should drive a few other zhps to cross reference my own zhps performance.

[az3579]

I don't I just want the torque of the E90s... I like almost everything else about my zhp better. One other thing, the roadnoise is a little bit better in the E90. It doesn't make up for its other faults though if I can get more torque I should drive a few other zhps.

The torque increase is minimal and isn't worth the switch, IMO. If you're going to get an E90, you should skip all the other rubbish and go straight for the 335i or an M3.

[nk_zhp]

I came from a E92 335i (talk about torque), never looked back.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Torque is crazy on the 335. I have Dinan Stage II, which has even more torque.

Is the 335 in the running?

[gr330zhp]

Buy an E46 M3.


Or better yet, buy the Rogue S54 ZHP :D sexy body, ZHP and one of BMWs best motors. Plus the sound of the S54 at WOT = SEX!

[zhp43867]

E46 M3 gets awful gas mileage. Could I afford it? Yes. Do I want to pay for it? No. My mom had a 335 with four HPFP failures, a motor teardown and two DME reprograms in 50k miles, so no- it's not in the running.

The zhp does look way better, I just like the instantaneous torque of my moms 328. I'm going to find another zhp to see if mine was messed up in that regard.

[az3579]

The zhp does look way better, I just like the instantaneous torque of my moms 328. I'm going to find another zhp to see if mine was messed up in that regard.

You do know that there is an infamous dip in power around 4k, right? I think there is a fix for it in the form of a software update. Perhaps this, and the combination of potential VANOS seals being needed is what is causing your "lack" of torque.

Mine has decent pickup, but dips between 3-4k rpm where it seems like nothing is happening, then it picks up strong again and pulls fine 'till redline. I need to get this update done and do my seals as it hasn't been done yet on this car.


Also keep in mind that the 328i is a different car with different characteristics. For example; just yesterday, I went on a spirited drive with my buddy who bought my S50 E30. I thought he was going to be hard to keep up to, but I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that I had absolutely no problem keeping up (even had to let off a few times), even though the car didn't feel all that fast. The feeling is quite different, and the E30 definitely feels a lot more lively. It's a different car, I don't expect it to feel the same. The point is, just because it doesn't feel the same doesn't mean it isn't as quick.

[mimalmo]

ZHP with an Active Autowerke SC will give you your torque fix.

[danewilson77]

You do know that there is an infamous dip in power around 4k, right? I think there is a fix for it in the form of a software update. Perhaps this, and the combination of potential VANOS seals being needed is what is causing your "lack" of torque.

Mine has decent pickup, but dips between 3-4k rpm where it seems like nothing is happening, then it picks up strong again and pulls fine 'till redline. I need to get this update done and do my seals as it hasn't been done yet on this car.


Also keep in mind that the 328i is a different car with different characteristics. For example; just yesterday, I went on a spirited drive with my buddy who bought my S50 E30. I thought he was going to be hard to keep up to, but I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that I had absolutely no problem keeping up (even had to let off a few times), even though the car didn't feel all that fast. The feeling is quite different, and the E30 definitely feels a lot more lively. It's a different car, I don't expect it to feel the same. The point is, just because it doesn't feel the same doesn't mean it isn't as quick.

All of it^^^^^Very good thoughts.

[mwscircle]

just do e90 335i :) <3 love all day loong

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Mike, what are the torque and hp specs on your 335?

[az3579]

just do e90 335i :) <3 love all day loong

'Till the fuel pump goes. :rofl

[Marcus-SanDiego]

True. So sick of the hpfp issues with the n54.

[az3579]

True. So sick of the hpfp issues with the n54.

In all honestly, my post was unwarranted because the majority of the 335's don't have the issue, but too large of them do, so I think it's joke worthy. It is literally like winning a lottery by getting one that doesn't have an issue. lol

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Well, I have blown two pumps, so you can say whatever you'd like, BP. I'm with you. I don't recall if mike has had a failed pump yet.

[bimmer848]

i love my e90! i stayed away from the 335, but since its been recalled its more of a pita than a issue. they have to fix it under warranty regardless of coverage or not. the motor is a beast. i miss my e60 everyday. i would have preferred a 330, but ended up with a 325. the good thing about this motor is that it is bulletproof and much easier to work on diy. it is a little slow, but that is not my concern with this car. i bought it more for comfort convenience items and updated technology. the intake and exhaust make it feel and sound a little more menacing, the Mtech kit, H&R springs and 19's make it look very nice. goal accomplished. they are much quieter and more refined than the e46, though i dont find the car to be numb at all. the steering is very BMW. with the suspension and 19's the car feels great and rides very nice for these mods. the zhp's are awesome and thats what i set out to get. i only bought it cause i stumbled into it. the e46 was what i wanted so i am in no way trying to sell you on the e90, but just know that i've owned a bunch of bmw's and the e90 is just as much a BMW as any they have made so far!

[zhp43867]

I'm just gonna finish getting the zhp fixed and rebuild the vanos. Thanks guys.

[pyreguy]

I would like you better if you got another ZHP :biggrin

[mimalmo]

^^OK, I seriously LOL'd at that one.

[az3579]

I'm just gonna finish getting the zhp fixed and rebuild the vanos. Thanks guys.

That is some dedication. I'm proud of you.
Depending on the damage, I probably wouldn't have fixed it being OCD and all. But to the average person who isn't as anal about it "never going to be the way it was" like me, it makes more sense to fix.
I'm the kind of person who wouldn't even buy a car that had a very minor bumper tap that got replaced even if there was no actual damage to anything other than the bumper. I'm just that particular...

Need pics when done. :)

[danewilson77]

I'm just gonna finish getting the zhp fixed and rebuild the vanos. Thanks guys.

Yippee!!!!!!!

[pyreguy]

Glad to hear this! I am happy for both you and your ZHP.

[mimalmo]

Good ting, we was gonna whack yous.

http://chud.com/articles/content_images/0NICK2/casino_1818.jpg

[zhp43867]

That is some dedication. I'm proud of you.
Depending on the damage, I probably wouldn't have fixed it being OCD and all. But to the average person who isn't as anal about it "never going to be the way it was" like me, it makes more sense to fix.
I'm the kind of person who wouldn't even buy a car that had a very minor bumper tap that got replaced even if there was no actual damage to anything other than the bumper. I'm just that particular...

Need pics when done. :)

I think this repair would have been maybe ~$6.5K at the BMW dealership, the body shop I went to doesn't mess around. It'll look better than it did when it went in, and probably even drive better too. I would not want the car back if there was going to be any noticeable damage, I have been assured it will be totally invisible even on close inspection.

Thanks for the support guys.

Thread jacking my own thread. Dr. Vanos vs Beisan, any thoughts on why I should do one or the other?

[kayger12]

Thread jacking my own thread. Dr. Vanos vs Beisan, any thoughts on why I should do one or the other?

Beisan is significantly cheaper and not really that much more wrenching.

I was very satisfied with the Beisan product, support, and installation instructions.

[danewilson77]

+1

[az3579]

+1 on Beisan. No need to replace your VANOS unit if the seals/rattle kit will fix it.

[danewilson77]

+1 on Beisan. No need to replace your VANOS unit if the seals/rattle kit will fix it.

Especially since the two other options are.....

1. Way more expensive to ship to Dr. VANOS and you would be without your car.....for who knows how long....and...
2. Way, way more expensive to have indy/dealer perform the repairs. I would think it would be close to $1k....

[Kudos]

I know that there is one part where you *might* have to sand stuff. IS it difficult and required or is that just if your sh*t's completely screwed up?

[az3579]

I know that there is one part where you *might* have to sand stuff. IS it difficult and required or is that just if your sh*t's completely screwed up?

This is the first I've heard of this.
I've done the Beisan repair kit on the S50 once and required no modification to make anything fit. Everything fit together beautifully. I don't see why it would be different for the M54.

[mimalmo]

He's talking about the anti-rattle repair kit.

[kayger12]

I know that there is one part where you *might* have to sand stuff. IS it difficult and required or is that just if your sh*t's completely screwed up?

The sanding pertains to the anti-rattle kit. I haven't read about too many people needing to do it, but it really doesn't seem like that big a deal if you have to.

[az3579]

What about the rattle kit? I didn't have to do it for the S50... why does it have to be sanded for the M54? What has to get sanded?

[kayger12]

What about the rattle kit? I didn't have to do it for the S50... why does it have to be sanded for the M54? What has to get sanded?

The replacement piston bearing that you install to reduce axial play in the piston might be too tight. If it is, you have to sand the bearing down a bit.

[danewilson77]

Bearing loosening adjustment.
If splined shaft binds and cannot be rotated then axial fit it too tight and loosening adjustment is needed.
Disassemble piston bearing per above procedure.
Place sandpaper (~400 grade) on flat table top. Place bearing center washer on sandpaper.
Slide washer side to side on sandpaper ~6” back and forth while moderately pressing washer on sandpaper. Perform sanding for 10 seconds.
Rotate washer 90 degrees and repeat sanding process.
Flip washer to opposite side and repeat above sanding procedure; 10 seconds sanding, rotate 90 degrees, 10 seconds sanding.
Clean washer (brake cleaner & towels).
Reassemble piston bearing per above procedure and reassess bearing axial fit.
Note: Washer is made from hardened steel and does not easily wear. Sanding procedure will remove ~.005mm washer height. Washer might need max .015mm height adjustment.

[nk_zhp]

It really isn't a big deal to do the sanding (if needed). I do however want to add that I've heard from more than one person that getting the dr.vanos might have been overall worthwhile instead of going to the steps to disassemble the piston etc.

[zhp43867]

I'm going with Dr. Vanos; see I'm a great listener. :shifty The cost is not that much more- and the bearing is already rebuilt to have the "anti-rattle" aspect, which I would do if I got the Beisan. I won't be without my car, they have a core charge. So I will pay $400, install my new vanos, and send them my old one (then they'll refund me $150). I don't see how installing Dr. Vanos would be more expensive either, it is supposed to take less time, no?

[kayger12]

I don't see how installing Dr. Vanos would be more expensive either, it is supposed to take less time, no?

If you're doing it yourself, Beisan will cost $120 and Dr V will be $250 me thinks.

If you're paying to have it done, I would think the Dr V job would be faster and would offset the extra cost of the product.

[danewilson77]

Doing it the Beisan way costs roughly $170.00...plus....you rob yourself of learning and nurturing your own car.

Its all good though....glad you are getting it fixed....

So.....after you pay...they send you a new unit...before you pull the old one? So down time is much less than what I expected.

[kayger12]

Doing it the Beisan way costs roughly $170.00...plus....you rob yourself of learning and nurturing your own car.


Did the Beisan price go up? Thought it was $60 for the o-rings and $60 for anti rattle.

Or are you adding in vcg and vanos gasket?

[danewilson77]

Yeah...but you gots to buy the VCG, RTV, VANOS gasket, pop rivets, etc......

[kayger12]

Yeah...but you gots to buy the VCG, RTV, VANOS gasket, pop rivets, etc......

Gotcha, bro. Thought you were adding it in. Just wanted to make sure the price wasn't up at Beisan...

[danewilson77]

Thought you were adding it in.

lolwut? You thought I was adding what in?

[jjcools]

Dr. Vanos doesn't use the new seals do they?

[danewilson77]

Yes...I believe they do. Maybe not. Good point. If they don't...whats the point? I know BMW doesn't use new seals....

This statement eludes to maybe they do...

"Our vanos units are professionally rebuilt to a much higher standard than the factory refurbished units and will solve engine performance problems that are due to a malfunctioning or stuck vanos."

But...I guess I never really worried weather or not they did.....cuz I always went with Beisan.

I guess I just assumed they used the correct software...

[zhp43867]

I'm going to install it myself. I don't consider installing new seals on a vanos vs replacing it more of a learning experience...

Fully cleaned and rebuilt vanos unit with new seals and O-rings installed. In addition, we rebuild the internal bearings and reduce the tolerances to eliminate the 'marbles in a tin can' noises commonly found on the 'ZHP' package E46 models. The kit also includes a new vanos gasket and crush washers. Don't settle for half a rebuild, get the complete package with our dual vanos kit.
Price: $400.00 (includes fully refundable $150 core charge)

[danewilson77]

I'm going to install it myself. I don't consider installing new seals on a vanos vs replacing it more of a learning experience...



I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Nothing makes your pooper pucker more than when you're trying to stretch the new software over the piston. You are robbing yourself of that intense pleasure.

Maybe that's why I have 5 under my belt now...lol.

[zhp43867]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Nothing makes your pooper pucker more than when you're trying to stretch the new software over the piston. You are robbing yourself of that intense pleasure.

Maybe that's why I have 5 under my belt now...lol.

I call that unnecessary pain and suffering. :rofl

To me it's like this; you have a lift and jackstands and you need to replace your clutch. You decide to use the jackstands for the added "experience", see where I'm coming from?

lol :wub

[az3579]

I'm going with Dr. Vanos; see I'm a great listener. :shifty The cost is not that much more- and the bearing is already rebuilt to have the "anti-rattle" aspect, which I would do if I got the Beisan. I won't be without my car, they have a core charge. So I will pay $400, install my new vanos, and send them my old one (then they'll refund me $150). I don't see how installing Dr. Vanos would be more expensive either, it is supposed to take less time, no?

The time savings is marginal, at best. How long does it take to really take apart the VANOS? Maybe 10 minutes? A shop would have to take a few hours longer to do the Beisan kit for you to have a cost savings in getting the Dr. VANOS unit instead. I can tell you, it doesn't take long at all to install the anti-rattle bearings.


But, it is the easier solution, so it's your wallet and your choice. :)

[danewilson77]

Really tough to make a decision now....not even knowing if they put the proper software in it....

[zhp43867]

Really tough to make a decision now....not even knowing if they put the proper software in it....

What? The seals they use are from Beisan. They then clean and rebuild the whole unit, and fix the rattling issue before it starts.

[mimalmo]

Software? The VANOS seals and bearings are mechanical.

[kayger12]

lolwut? You thought I was adding what in?

The price of the vcg, rtv, vanos gasket, etc. to the $120 for the Beisan stuff to come up with the $170 number.

Sorry if I'm confusing the crap out of you. Been a long day and I'm barely making sense to myself right now...

[mimalmo]

Sorry if I'm confusing the crap out of you. Been a long day and I'm barely making sense to myself right now...


"This may sound a little West Texan to you, but I like it. When I'm talking about.. when I'm talking about myself, and when he's talking about myself, all of us are talking about me."
GW Bush

[az3579]

"This may sound a little West Texan to you, but I like it. When I'm talking about.. when I'm talking about myself, and when he's talking about myself, all of us are talking about me."
GW Bush

OMG. Brain explosion in progress.