Teach me how to drive

[ryankokesh]

So although I've driven a manual before my zhp, I've never really driven it "hard". Which for me, brings up the issue of starting really quickly. What's the best way to do this, in terms of inflicting minimal wear on the car? I've heard so many conflicting things that I'm really not sure what to believe. And it's not one of those things I really want to be experimenting with, lol. Some people seem to think that just dumping the clutch is totally fine, and will cause less wear than slipping it from like 4-5k. Others claim the opposite. So anyone care to explain this to a noob? Should I just not be doing this at all?


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[M0nk3y]

I dump the clutch everytime I launch for autocross. I did it a whole year on a 100k+ car 2 years ago and last year I did it on my current car.

If you're doing damage to the car, you'll smell it. I remember once when I was first learning to do heel-toe on the E46 I rode the clutch on the friction point and burned it alittle, it smells like rotten eggs.

As for where to launch and dump, it's a playing game. There is a funny video of me doing my auto-x for the first time and I dumped the clutch at 3.5k (where I did it for my E46) and I spun tires through first...4-5k is too much to dump though, you don't need that excessive revs to get the car going.

[bimmeryota]

Developing a "feel" for the friction point of the clutch will help a lot but dumping the clutch and getting a good launch will definitely depend on the starting rpm or it will bog or spin too much. But, when shifting dumping the clutch each time is in order for maximum power to the ground. and of course practice, practice, practice

[ryankokesh]

So just to around 3k and totally let off the clutch?

Also, is that video on YouTube? :)


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[bimmeryota]

yes, but while simultaneously flooring the go pedal

[ryankokesh]

This is going to take practice. Which I should probably figure out how to record, so other people can laugh at me :)


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[M0nk3y]

This is going to take practice. Which I should probably figure out how to record, so other people can laugh at me :)


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Here, you can laugh now:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgUlKXAVgwU&feature=player_embedded

[quikryptonite]

So, if I want to learn to heel and toe... what's the best way? find an old abandoned road?

I've tried before and I always end up smashing the brake pedal to the floor and almost killing the engine.

[nike001]

So, if I want to learn to heel and toe... what's the best way? find an old abandoned road?

I've tried before and I always end up smashing the brake pedal to the floor and almost killing the engine.

:rofl I do the same. I just stick to normal rev-matching and then onto the brakes.

[Newjack]

:rofl I do the same. I just stick to normal rev-matching and then onto the brakes.

I have tried this as well. I can never get it right. I know that a professional driver wouldn't have much of a problem doing it in these cars, but I have a much tougher time. The design of the gas pedal almost feels like it wasn't meant to heel-toe. Maybe it's just me. :dunno

[HokieZHP]

My advice for you would be to just learn the feel for yourself. That's what I did. I don't feel there's a trick to doing it, it's just a matter of you getting the motion down and being comfortable with it. Just slowly build up your confidence doing different things until you're comfortable. I learned to "drive" a car on the miles and miles of empty back roads behind my house in different types of cars (AWD, FWD, RWD, boosted, etc...). You'll get a feel for it. I have mastered the quick start without dropping the clutch or spinning the tires in my ZHP just from practice and repetitiveness. I also taught myself to double clutch and heel toe just by practicing on the abandoned back roads.

[nike001]

I have tried this as well. I can never get it right. I know that a professional driver wouldn't have much of a problem doing it in these cars, but I have a much tougher time. The design of the gas pedal almost feels like it wasn't meant to heel-toe. Maybe it's just me. :dunno

I've thought the same. I've found that the easiest way of doing is is keeping the heel of your foot on the brake and reaching down and blipping the throttle with the top of your foot. The trick is to moderate the pressure on the brake while reaching down to the throttle...

[UdubBadger]

Ryan - Gimme a call, I'll fly with ya.

http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/32036.gif

[ryankokesh]

Cool

Get ready for some laughs!


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[UdubBadger]

I can also teach you how to Bucky




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[HokieZHP]

I can also teach you how to Bucky




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Not an OSU fan but love that song!

[UdubBadger]

Bucky is UW-Madison as in Bucky Badger, not OSU Buckeyes.

[Mike V]

I've thought the same. I've found that the easiest way of doing is is keeping the heel of your foot on the brake and reaching down and blipping the throttle with the top of your foot. The trick is to moderate the pressure on the brake while reaching down to the throttle...

I do it the opposite. When you're braking hard, the brake pedal is just about even with the gas pedal. Twist your leg so that the heel of your foot is sticking out toward the gas pedal. Roll your foot to the right and blip the gas pedal before letting the clutch out.

You really notice the benefits of heel/toe on the track. Without the rev match, the car is unsettled when doing a high-rpm downshift (when letting the clutch out quickly), especially if it's one of those pesky braking zones with a slight curve.

Learning to heel/toe in normal driving is pretty difficult especially when applying light pressure to the brake pedal. I suggest practicing on a secluded road so that you can brake hard from speeds of at least 60 mph and practice 3-2 heel/toe downshifts. That's the most common downshift on the tracks that I've been on (HPT, MAM, Hallett). The 4-3 shift is common too but not quite as much as the 3-2 (in my experience). After you get the 3-2 shift down, find a road where you can practice a 4-3, then a 3-2.

[HokieZHP]

Bucky is UW-Madison as in Bucky Badger, not OSU Buckeyes.

Sorry these platinums must be hitting me haha


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[Rovert]

Just to bring back this topic...how's the OP doing with the shifting?

There's no real technique for heel/toe that's catered to all people at once. Every person is different. One person likes to use the inner ball of their foot or the outer ball of their foot, while another likes to use the heel of their foot on the pedal. You'll have to find out what's comfy for you and the only real practice is to practice when you are out on the road doing your stuff. I find it super easy with BMW's pedal setup. I use the left ball on the brake with plenty of area to modulate the brake with precision. Just get used to braking like that. Next step learn how to roll your foot so the right ball of your foot can tap and modulate the throttle. When you can get comfortable with just mashing the throttle for a rev match it doesn't matter to modulate the throttle. Just stab it like the Hitchcock Phsyco knife scene!! :eyetwitch Your other foot will get used to clutching it quickly and precisely as your shifting hand will learn how to shift fast.

Hand placement is key to being confident you're in the correct gear. I just pull with my fingers or palm with my hand with the placement exactly opposite as where the shift should go. You don't need extreme pressure because it'll just go in when you get used to the precision of a BMW manual transmission. Just push up with your palm and pull back with your palm/fingers but try not to 'grip' and 'hold' the shift knob. We don't want to romance that knob...we want to get down the business! :ducking In the video below I may appear to be holding it but I'm not squeezing it... :o

Launching is another variable thing. What do you want? Smooth take off to a rocketing launch? Do you want points for style with visual, sound, & smoke? Or do you like to smell of soggy socks that have been left in the sun after using them for a marathon? The clutch mainly wears when it gets too hot. Rubbing when it's cold doesn't do nearly as much wear compared to heating the clutch up. I have 154K miles on my car with the original clutch going strong. I launch in between 2.5-3K mainly and then I will aggressively squeeze out the clutch. I'll ride it enough to not shock the driveline mounts and send instant torque to drivetrain parts but never enough to make the clutch hot and smelly. I launched my car on video below @ 8:20 so when you watch it in HD then you'll see where the RPMs go before I let out the clutch. I try to never let the RPMs go under 3,000 RPM because I'm at the beginning of the torque curve and any lower will bog the engine down.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtOcsvztyg4

If I want to launch harder then I need to go into the 4,000RPM range because I run 265x19" in the rear which have a tremendous amount of grip for the power of a 330. When I let the clutch out I will modulate it at near wheel spin and the clutch will be let out fully within a second. I've never smelt my clutch. I've only smelt it when I taught someone how to drive manual in my car when he forgot to let out the clutch fully not knowing he was at 5K. He was merging onto the highway from an alternating red light lane merge....LOL. My winter tires are much easier to get wheel spin at 3K as they are 225x17" wide but the amount of spin also depends on tire pressures and suspension setup. Soft tires = more grip. Soft rear suspension = more grip.

This one if I can remember I launched at 3500RPM and feathered at maximum rear traction without slip because I knew any slip would slow me against my friend's M3 on the highway onramp. I've never shifted so fast and I felt it was "like" a quick SMG shift...that was a near perfect launch and shift for me that I'm not sure if I can replicate again....Sometimes to quick of a shift can unbalance the drivetrain and bog the engine down...this time it held at max power the whole time! :thumbup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD9CR7q2_pE
nono**I know I shouldn't be doing this but we as enthusiast do push the limits and have to play amongst everyone saying no...LOL

[ryankokesh]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! Doin much better now. Still no heel/toe action, but I'm not afraid of burning out the clutch anymore from a stop and getting into second. Everything is much smoother as well. (and much more fun!)


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[jreyes19]

I am going to go ahead and admit that this has helped me, I have been driving my manual car for a while
and have had manual cars before this one and was shy when it comes to these techniques
I now feel confident and will practice all of the things mentioned

Also thank you ryan for posting, what a lot of people (including myself) would have been shy to ask about

and on a side note, to get my wheel to spin out a little i would have to have the DSC off ( and if it matters i have already removed the cdv)

[ryankokesh]

:thumbsup


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[aurelius]

As has been noted above, there are many variables involved with a good launch.

Not least the presence (or not) of the clutch delay valve (aforementioned CDV) and whether you have DSC on or off.

You'll never get a good launch if the CDV is in place. Note: not all manual E46 cars have a CDV. There's no pattern as to which do or don't. Neither E46 I've owned had one and of course they are never found on models with auto trans.

Tires, type of road surface and temperature thereof also make a big difference.

I prefer getting on the gas semi-aggressively with pretty much simultaneous but quick and smooth release of clutch pedal.

As for heel and toe, as is suggested in an earlier post or 2, the name of that technique is really a misnomer. Your heel is the pivot point, ball of foot positioned securely on brake, right side of foot blips gas pedal while clutch is disengaged on downshift.

BMW does indeed have perfect pedal placement for this. Driving other cars can be annoying at first and usually requires modification of the technique. I usually slide the seat all the way back in an unfamiliar car in order to get a visual on the pedals.

Beyond pedal placement, there are also variables to consider for heel and toe downshifting. 2 big ones being the shoes you're wearing and whether the soles are wet. Your foot can easily slip off the brake pedal. Don't start trying this with any solid objects in front of you.

Once you've got it down, you'll find you can even make really smooth downshifts into first.

Bottom line: invest in the driver. I worked at Bondurant in the mid 1990s and HIGHLY recommend a 2-3 day school in road cars. Either there or elsewhere (Skip Barber, etc.)

It's a mind-blowing experience. At the end of every school, at least one guy fessed up to what's reflected here in some of these posts. Typically something along the lines of "I thought I was a great driver but man, did I learn a lot and wow do I have some practice ahead of me."

And while those confessions usually came from men, I always made a point of rounding up the female students on morning 1. They paid attn and learned and were able to put the techniques into action the quickest. They ended up smoothest, mainly because they were easing into something new, whereas with men it was often about pulling them back from bad habits (which is harder).

[derbo]

When I was 16, the first thing I did was learn how to rev-match downshifting without the brakes first. Once I figured out how the gas pedal reacts and I could get the rev matching to 2nd nature, I moved on to adding the brakes into the equation. Like many of you have said, light braking + rev matching is rather difficult to learn and it should definitely be learned somewhere you have enough open road to brake heavily. I use my ball of my foot on the brakes and blip the gas with my bottom right edge of my foot. With enough practice, you will be able to blip the gas to exactly what RPM you want it to be. Once you learn it, it will be relatively easy to adapt it to any car within a few tries.

I never really launched the BMW cause of the clutch delay valve, but I have in my old turbo civic. The shock of dumping your clutch is rather damaging to the half-shafts. I snapped a few axles while racing my civic at the 1/4th until I finally learned it was a driver error.

My current pre-launch routine would be to rev to the best RPM for a launch without bogging or spinning the wheels. In my civic's case it was 7200rpm redline for my 23' slicks. I would slip the clutch enough to get to the engagement point but not enough to move. I would immediately pull my handbrake and hold it with my hand. The car will start to engage and start squatting a bit. When the light turned green, I would release my handbrake, drop the rest of the clutch and manipulate the throttle till I got full traction. This must've been my pre-launch routine for 70+ launches and never had an axle broken since. I'm sure it wasn't too good on the clutch, but it was definitely alot better than snapping axles.

[M0nk3y]

As has been noted above, there are many variables involved with a good launch.

Not least the presence (or not) of the clutch delay valve (aforementioned CDV) and whether you have DSC on or off.

You'll never get a good launch if the CDV is in place. Note: not all manual E46 cars have a CDV. There's no pattern as to which do or don't. Neither E46 I've owned had one and of course they are never found on models with auto trans.

Tires, type of road surface and temperature thereof also make a big difference.

I prefer getting on the gas semi-aggressively with pretty much simultaneous but quick and smooth release of clutch pedal.


Launching has a little to do with CDV, alot more to do with the open differential. Just me. I could never get a launch with any E46 that I drove. Now, with my car with CDV still there, I can spin wheels at 2000 RPM. Yes, alittle to do with the torque, alot more to do with the LSD.

For me, I hold what RPM I want, and once I get the clutch to catch I jump on the gas and quickly get off the clutch.


When I was 16, the first thing I did was learn how to rev-match downshifting without the brakes first. Once I figured out how the gas pedal reacts and I could get the rev matching to 2nd nature, I moved on to adding the brakes into the equation. Like many of you have said, light braking + rev matching is rather difficult to learn and it should definitely be learned somewhere you have enough open road to brake heavily. I use my ball of my foot on the brakes and blip the gas with my bottom right edge of my foot. With enough practice, you will be able to blip the gas to exactly what RPM you want it to be. Once you learn it, it will be relatively easy to adapt it to any car within a few tries.

I never really launched the BMW cause of the clutch delay valve, but I have in my old turbo civic. The shock of dumping your clutch is rather damaging to the half-shafts. I snapped a few axles while racing my civic at the 1/4th until I finally learned it was a driver error.

My current pre-launch routine would be to rev to the best RPM for a launch without bogging or spinning the wheels. In my civic's case it was 7200rpm redline for my 23' slicks. I would slip the clutch enough to get to the engagement point but not enough to move. I would immediately pull my handbrake and hold it with my hand. The car will start to engage and start squatting a bit. When the light turned green, I would release my handbrake, drop the rest of the clutch and manipulate the throttle till I got full traction. This must've been my pre-launch routine for 70+ launches and never had an axle broken since. I'm sure it wasn't too good on the clutch, but it was definitely alot better than snapping axles.

In bold is key. You need to know how your engine reacts at different RPMs when you blip. I had a hard time at first in my current car trying to heel-toe when normal driving. I'd go to downshift and try to blip the throttle at 2500 RPM, my engine will bog.

Do the same blip at 3500+, it will work perfectly. The engine naturally responds easier at a higher RPM. So when heel-toeing, make sure you're at a decent RPM so you don't bog when you blip.