4-piston BBK on the cheap, coming soon

[az3579]

So, I was over in NJ visiting a friend of mine and he happened to mention that his shop is now selling BBK kits on the cheap now. They make custom brackets to make the calipers of choice fit.

Their "entry level" kit consists of 4-piston calipers (if I remember correctly, it's Wilwood), pads, and lines, perhaps a few other things I'm missing. He says that you can have both the front and the back with the same calipers if you wanted to. Brake bias is perfect, according to him.

They currently don't have any brackets for E46 yet, but I will be driving down to their shop so they could take measurements. Then they will make custom brackets from those measurements and the kit will be available for E46 330's.

I just got the BMW Performance kit, but I never got the firm brake pedal I sought after with the kit. Performance is good, but I seek a firm pedal. I'm told this kit will deliver just that. And on the plus side, brake pads will be cheaper, around $100 or so versus the $200+ for 135i pads. If you have the calipers on the back as well, the pads are interchangeable front and back.



So, anyone interested in a BBK, you might want to hold on for a little bit...

[zj96sc]

Brake bias is perfect, according to him.

skeptical fry. sounds pretty haphazard to me - first he says fit your caliper of choice, then he says bias is perfect? have they tested all of these combinations?

I just ways raise an eyebrow at stuff like this. BMW put a LOT of engineering into the chassis dynamics of the E46, so to just got throwing calipers on with a guy that can laser cut some brackets to fit just any off the shelf caliper....I don't know.

Believe it when I see it I guess.


I never got the firm brake pedal I sought after with the kit

Are you on all stainless lines?

[zhpnsnv]

I'll take a look at the offerings when they come out. For brakes, I trust vendors who put their products on cars and take them to the track. I can't tell you how many laps I've spent along with the Zeckhausen fellas as they test different products on different vehicles. I also trust BMW with brakes, with track pad choice being the only main exception.

[az3579]

skeptical fry. sounds pretty haphazard to me - first he says fit your caliper of choice, then he says bias is perfect? have they tested all of these combinations?

Not a caliper of your choice, the caliper they sell. This particular kit is just one choice of caliper. I said caliper of choice because I'm not 100% certain of the brand; I forgot of what he told me. I remember it being Wilwood, but don't quote me on that. They have sold these kits for other cars before and from what he was telling me, these were track customers and all of them are happy with it. The brake bias comments comes from testing, so yes, it was tested.



I just ways raise an eyebrow at stuff like this. BMW put a LOT of engineering into the chassis dynamics of the E46, so to just got throwing calipers on with a guy that can laser cut some brackets to fit just any off the shelf caliper....I don't know.

As far as I'm concerned, if it's tested and it's legit, that's all that matters. Doesn't matter if the car came with it or not, what works, works. If what he says is true, I don't care that the brakes aren't BMW. The brand he told me is a brand that's a big name, that I distinctly remember when he told me. It's not some cheapo POS brand that nobody's heard of. What they're doing is the same sort of thing that Lee is doing at www.massivebrakes.com, only these kits are significantly cheaper.



Believe it when I see it I guess.

You will see it soon. I'm just giving people a heads up.




Are you on all stainless lines?

I have one line that I couldn't get off and decided not to mess with it due to risk of stripping. 3 of the lines are stainless, but regardless, when we installed the same exact brakes on Charlie's car, the firmness still wasn't what I wanted even after bleeding and everything. He's on all 4 stainless.

[zj96sc]

If what he says is true

This is kind of what I'm getting at. I don't care if they're not BMW either - all I'm driving at is this is actually a pretty complex system with a lot of mechanical engineering, physics, and dynamics involved. Ask BMW how long they spent designing the e46 braking system, ask stoptech or brembo how much R&D went into their kits. I bet between the three of those firms you're talking thousands of development and testing hours.

All I'm saying is - this isn't something some guy with some plate steel, a laser cutter and UPS account can dream up with his buddies. I'm not trying to knock this guy or his work - if he has indeed done the homework, done the engineering, backed it with robust testing and analysis - absolutely more power to him, this is what aftermarket automotive modification thrives on. :thumbsup

[iZHP]

My pedal is pretty firm IMO...I have the cross-drilled kit with all SS lines...it's definitely firmer than stock...maybe we should compare some day.

[Mike V]

I'd rather put the $$ into something else on the car. After many autocrosses and track days, stock BMW brakes + PF Z-Rated pads feel pretty damn good to me. Are you experiencing a mushy pedal, BP? Have you driven something else that offers the pedal feel that you're seeking? Just trying to get an idea of your goal on pedal feel.

[az3579]

All,
This isn't about my car. This thread is simply an FYI to let you know that an alternative is on the way. That is all.

[spencers]

Are you experiencing a mushy pedal, BP? Have you driven something else that offers the pedal feel that you're seeking? Just trying to get an idea of your goal on pedal feel.
I'd like to know as well.

[az3579]

I'd rather put the $$ into something else on the car. After many autocrosses and track days, stock BMW brakes + PF Z-Rated pads feel pretty damn good to me. Are you experiencing a mushy pedal, BP? Have you driven something else that offers the pedal feel that you're seeking? Just trying to get an idea of your goal on pedal feel.

Yeah, I've driven something else that had the perfect pedal feel. My old E30 with the 4-pot UUC kit.
That pedal was rock hard. Precisely the way I liked it.
It's not that my pedal is mushy, it's just that it's soft. Not the same thing. You press the pedal and you can't really feel the effect of the braking. You know it's working, but you can't feel it.

[Johnmadd]

E30 ftw...again.

BP, the E30 is the king, compensation for luxury and comfort but still go fast is the zhp, not much room for improvement.

[UdubBadger]

so where are these bbks?

[Vas]

I could machine relocation brackets.

[Johal E32]

I am interested..

Any updates?

[Stu]

Neat, I'll definitely take it into consideration. How's Wilwood in terms of the braking world? I don't hear much about them. It seems to be all about Brembo and StopTech these days.

[Vas]

Wilwoods are great due to the fact that they can be used to build any type of a custom kit.

Something like this which I built for a Nissan maxima.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/vsamoylov/IMAG0630.jpg

[Hermes]

did somebody say they need brake bias control???

http://www.wilwood.com/Images/MasterCylinders/Master%20Cylinder%20Photos-Large/260-11179-lg.jpg


Neat, I'll definitely take it into consideration. How's Wilwood in terms of the braking world? I don't hear much about them. It seems to be all about Brembo and StopTech these days.

I have no problems with Wilwood, they are what will eventually be installed on the 2002. This is their 6 piston E46 kit:

http://www.wilwood.com/Images/BrakeKits/BrakeKit_Photos-Large/brake_kit_140-11974-DR-lg.jpg
http://www.wilwood.com/Images/BrakeKits/Kit%20Photos-Large-Parts%20Laid%20Out/140-11974_kit-lg.jpg
http://www.wilwood.com/Images/BrakeKits/Installation_Drawings/Installation_Drawings-Large/ds826_IPB-lg.jpg

slotted rotors (black or red calipers) - $2,038.39
drilled & slotted rotors (black or red calipers) - $2,150.39


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This is the kit that I will be installing on the 2002
http://www.iemotorsport.com/mm5/graphics/00000002/02bbk300mm15.jpg