OEM BMW Performance Strut Brace

[kakashi169]

Anyone know how to install this thing?

Bought one from ebay for under 300. Crazy find. Just came in the mail ytd.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/429891_2530900005448_1641930043_1734311_370731031_ n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/421628_2530903165527_1641930043_1734314_1730738624 _n.jpg

[danewilson77]

Remove the three bolts on your FSM's and install? The only issue may be where the battery terminal is.

Send it to me.....I will show you :biggrin

[jayjay_dee]

Nice, im jealous...

[Meric]

God that is so sexy.

[danewilson77]

God that is so sexy.

+1

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[derbo]

the battery terminal needs to be flipped and adjusted.



here you go, i followed this guide to flip the terminal. just click the link below.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366310&d=1278435983
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff58/styles_50/bbs%20wheels/DSCN1058.jpg


He even has the TIS instructions for you to download.

[imola red zhp]

I want one!!!

[webster]

i like to think my straight CF bar from Rogue is sexy...but then i see these installed and it just ruins it for me lol

congrats on the purchase, what a steal!

[Hermes]

Can't believe you found one for that price, nice job

[kayger12]

DIY here: http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1025-BMW-Performance-Carbon-Fiber-Strut-Brace-Bar-DIY

[kakashi169]

DIY here: http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1025-BMW-Performance-Carbon-Fiber-Strut-Brace-Bar-DIY

thanks for the replies friends...i saw your posting...how long did it take you? did anything reset besides the clock in your car?? what did you use to cut the plasitc pieces?

[kayger12]

I took my time. Maybe a couple of hours.

I used a hobby knife and utility knife to score the plastic where I could, and then used some bigger shears to cut the thicker pieces.

I had some trouble getting the hood switch for the alarm to sit properly on the partition when reversed, so I just ended up securing it down in the drug bin since I don't have the alarm activated.

[johnrando]

Congrats, good find.

[kakashi169]

I took my time. Maybe a couple of hours.

I used a hobby knife and utility knife to score the plastic where I could, and then used some bigger shears to cut the thicker pieces.

I had some trouble getting the hood switch for the alarm to sit properly on the partition when reversed, so I just ended up securing it down in the drug bin since I don't have the alarm activated.

hmm i will try my this saturday...btw will i need to remove the bar if i do an oil change?

[Hermes]

will i need to remove the bar if i do an oil change?

just get a funnel

[johnrando]

Yup, no need to remove the bar.

[kayger12]

^This-- just a funnel as JP said.

[kakashi169]

good! glad i cleared things up...ill install this bar this saturday...

[kakashi169]

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14145798#post14145798

my pictorial diy

[gr330zhp]

If you have OE alarm, you may have issues with the hood switch after the terminal is moved. I did. The procedure is very cheap in my opinion, especially for an accessory that was over $1k originally. But if you don't have alarm, no worries, the hood switch isn't really even needed.


EDIT: Just noticed you have already installed...My bad :facepalm

[MrMaico]

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14145798#post14145798

my pictorial diy

So you were able to mount it without moving the alarm switch? That would be the best option. Mine should be here Thur and I was going to mount it like this....

http://mrmaico.smugmug.com/Cars/BMW-ZHP-misc/i-fQRvbd5/0/XL/Alarm-5-XL.jpg

......but this would be even better.

http://mrmaico.smugmug.com/Cars/BMW-ZHP-misc/i-SCH85W5/0/L/bar-mount-L.jpg


For anyone looking for the directions from BMW there is a link to them in this post...

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?2221-What-did-you-do-for-your-ZHP-BMW-today&p=157635#post157635

[kakashi169]

So you were able to mount it without moving the alarm switch? That would be the best option. Mine should be here Thur and I was going to mount it like this....

http://mrmaico.smugmug.com/Cars/BMW-ZHP-misc/i-fQRvbd5/0/XL/Alarm-5-XL.jpg

......but this would be even better.

http://mrmaico.smugmug.com/Cars/BMW-ZHP-misc/i-SCH85W5/0/L/bar-mount-L.jpg


For anyone looking for the directions from BMW there is a link to them in this post...

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?2221-What-did-you-do-for-your-ZHP-BMW-today&p=157635#post157635

well done, i would have prefered the way you did it but its been done alrdy...
btw after i switched up everything, my on board computer button "BC" is acting up, i have to press down on it harder for it to switch from info to info...can someone shed some light on this situation?

[MrMaico]

well done, i would have prefered the way you did it but its been done alrdy...
btw after i switched up everything, my on board computer button "BC" is acting up, i have to press down on it harder for it to switch from info to info...can someone shed some light on this situation?

Actually I am still waiting on mine. When I looked at your pics I got things backwards in my head and thought you didn't move your switch but I see now that you did. Yes, I am going to mount mine like in the first pic so I don't have to cut any wires or move the position of the switch. So hopefully I won't have any issues with my alarm working properly.

It looks like you might have used your old nuts to mount yours? Not grabbing much of the threads it looks like. Or is that just the way they look? They are supposed to be mounted with special hardware. The guy I bought mine from said the dealer that sold him his last year claimed you just use your old hardware so he didn't have any to send with my bar so I ordered the stuff the other day. After I had ordered the pieces he told me he talked the dealer into giving him the hardware so I tried to cancel the order I made but I'm not sure if I contacted them in time to cancel. So I may have an extra set if you might be looking, I should know in a few days if I do end up with 2 sets. Let me know if you're interested.

The 4 special nuts should look like this....

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/51717895241/ES129238/

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BD53&mospid=47713&btnr=51_6777&hg=51&fg=95

Barry

[kakashi169]

Actually I am still waiting on mine. When I looked at your pics I got things backwards in my head and thought you didn't move your switch but I see now that you did. Yes, I am going to mount mine like in the first pic so I don't have to cut any wires or move the position of the switch. So hopefully I won't have any issues with my alarm working properly.

It looks like you might have used your old nuts to mount yours? Not grabbing much of the threads it looks like. Or is that just the way they look? They are supposed to be mounted with special hardware. The guy I bought mine from said the dealer that sold him his last year claimed you just use your old hardware so he didn't have any to send with my bar so I ordered the stuff the other day. After I had ordered the pieces he told me he talked the dealer into giving him the hardware so I tried to cancel the order I made but I'm not sure if I contacted them in time to cancel. So I may have an extra set if you might be looking, I should know in a few days if I do end up with 2 sets. Let me know if you're interested.

The 4 special nuts should look like this....

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/51717895241/ES129238/

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BD53&mospid=47713&btnr=51_6777&hg=51&fg=95

Barry

Oh no no, i used the nuts that the bar came with...they are longer, i know....but thanks for the heads up..

believe it or not, i was not going to install it because its such a beautiful piece! I was going to hang it up in my room or something. Too bad my uncle scratched it alrdy =( Oh well.

[danewilson77]

Oh no no, i used the nuts that the bar came with...they are longer, i know....but thanks for the heads up..

believe it or not, i was not going to install it because its such a beautiful piece! I was going to hang it up in my room or something. Too bad my uncle scratched it alrdy =( Oh well.

:rofl

How did he scratch it? :shifty

[Hermes]

Mine should be here Thur and I was going to mount it like this....

http://mrmaico.smugmug.com/Cars/BMW-ZHP-misc/i-fQRvbd5/0/XL/Alarm-5-XL.jpg

Barry, mine should arrive today also... I was looking at that guy's install and all he said is:


I used a small hack saw and various files. It probably took longer, but it works. Also, if you install the alarm and battery cable parts as pictured here, instead of how the instructions say, you will have less cutting of the bracket to do and no splicing of wires. You do need to get a 1/4 inch screw and nut from a hardware store.

anybody know what he's saying you need to do?

Also, since I don't have the OEM alarm couldn't I just disconnect it for a while and deal with the hood latch relocate later?


------

BTW, noticed it fits a M3 (... Charlie ...)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/showitsam/TiAg%20M3/100_1231.jpg


------

EDIT: it's here, will install later today

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/zhp%20projects/brace.jpg

[derbo]

http://img.skitch.com/20120212-ughjb9gscdukqi7dqp1yq2thg.jpg

I followed the BMW instructions. It was so easy with a dremel. I'm actually going back to an M3 strut bar..

[cakM3]

BTW, noticed it fits a M3 (... Charlie ...)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/showitsam/TiAg%20M3/100_1231.jpg

I see that JP :) ....I was really tempted to install my Performance Strut Brace on the ///M and take the OEM ///M strut bar for the ZHP but decided that the ZHP would be more suited for all BMW Performance toys :)

[MrMaico]

Barry, mine should arrive today also... I was looking at that guy's install and all he said is:



anybody know what he's saying you need to do?

Also, since I don't have the OEM alarm couldn't I just disconnect it for a while and deal with the hood latch relocate later?

------

EDIT: it's here, will install later today

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/zhp%20projects/brace.jpg

LOL.....that's the same thing I did as soon as I got home with mine JP. I am still waiting on the hardware. Hoping it will be here Sat.

Yes, I follow what he is saying. I will probably do the relocate Sat. even if I don't have the hardware yet. I can take some pics then and post them up. I've read that some people have just unhooked/unbolted the switch and just left it hang but it looks like you will at least have to cut that mounting arm off of the box with the + on it so that it will fit inside the drug bin. I already removed that plastic rivet that holds everything down with a small chisel going at it from the front side. Eventually you'll have to cut the inner piece with the switch mount apart from the "cover" half of it. You can probably cut that mount arm off with just a side cutters and clean it up later with a Dremel.

I have the alarm so that's why I want to do it this way. It looks like it is the exact same spot as before so I shouldn't have issues with it working properly afterwards. Also, no splicing of any wires this way.

Barry

[MrMaico]

Got mine installed yesterday. It took a good bit of trimming on the switch bracket but I think it looks a lot better than the way BMW shows to rearrange things. I was worried about getting the switch at the correct position/height to work properly again but I guessed right the first time and everything still works as it should.

I was out last night and took a couple of 270 degree exit ramps and it sure seemed like I could feel a difference. I used to feel a bit of understeer/ squirming of the front tires if I was going fast enough. It felt more planted last night. I think I better go out again today and try to confirm what I felt. :biggrin

http://mrmaico.smugmug.com/Cars/BMW-333Ci/i-bptxjSS/0/XL/IMG1591-XL.jpg

http://mrmaico.smugmug.com/Cars/BMW-333Ci/i-T7VRzLq/0/XL/IMG1593-XL.jpg

http://mrmaico.smugmug.com/Cars/BMW-333Ci/i-psxpbxF/0/XL/IMG1592-XL.jpg

[derbo]

your missing a cap on the driver strut tower ;)

Looks sexy with the intake too. :D

[Hermes]

There are little caps?

[derbo]

when you buy it new it should come with caps. its like the M3 black caps for the 13mm nuts.

[MrMaico]

your missing a cap on the driver strut tower ;)

Looks sexy with the intake too. :D

Damn, I was hoping no one would notice that. :biggrin

No biggie though, I have 6 more coming Fedex. :facepalm

The guy I bought it from said when he bought it the dealer told him you re-use your old hardware but a few days after I corrected him he went back to the dealer and they gave him everything but apparently they only had 5 caps on hand. Of course, by that time I had already ordered all the hardware and didn't get it cancelled before it shipped. So if anyone needs the stuff I have some for sale.......minus a cap or two. I'll probably hang onto a couple of spares.

I did some more "testing" again today and I am convinced I can feel the difference. I talked to a guy last year that said he didn't think he felt any difference.......until he removed his. That's when he noticed how it changed the handling. I bought it more for the looks than anything so this is just a bonus.

[danewilson77]

I will take 2 caps off your hands.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[derbo]

I definitely feel like the car feels a little softer without the bar. I took mine off and going back to an M3 bar for better practicality.

[Hermes]

I just called the stealer to see how much the caps are, they're around $3.50 each!

[trancenation]

I definitely feel like the car feels a little softer without the bar. I took mine off and going back to an M3 bar for better practicality.

+1

[HokieZHP]

I definitely feel like the car feels a little softer without the bar. I took mine off and going back to an M3 bar for better practicality.

I noticed this too. I didn't notice it as much when I put the bar on, but after having it for a while and taking it off, I have definitely noticed the difference.

[Katu]

I definitely feel like the car feels a little softer without the bar. I took mine off and going back to an M3 bar for better practicality.

The M3 bar is more practical? Explain!

[HokieZHP]

I'd guess because you don't have to worry about messing it up haha and it's not as thick as the BMW Performance one so maybe you don't have to work around it as much

[MrMaico]

The M3 bar is more practical? Explain!

I believe it's because the M3 bar is 3 pieces so you just have to remove 2 bolts on each end to remove it rather than unbolting your strut mounts every time.

I think this is the one.........

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL93&mospid=47714&btnr=51_4768&hg=51&fg=75

[kakashi169]

the m3 one looks cheap IMO....for me...its either go big or go home...none the less, still a great piece...

[cakM3]

I believe it's because the M3 bar is 3 pieces so you just have to remove 2 bolts on each end to remove it rather than unbolting your strut mounts every time.

I think this is the one.........

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL93&mospid=47714&btnr=51_4768&hg=51&fg=75

This is correct sir :thumbsup This is what I have on my ///M

[derbo]

The M3 bar is more practical? Explain!


I have camber plates and I have -3 camber in the front. The way the CF bar is designed, the bar goes over the center of the strut towers making it harder to adjust my dampening. This meant I would have to constantly remove my CF bar to adjust my dampening. Since I have Ground Control Coilovers, I am using Nylon self locking grade 8 bolts which are 1-2 time use.

Having the M3 strut brace would move the bar connection point to the edge and allow me to adjust my dampening without moving my bar off. It is also more practically to unbolt the 4 nuts on the bar instead of the whole bar everytime I needed to work on the engine bay.

Doesn't look at nice but I could care less about that since I'm looking for a good compromise of practicality and performance.

[LivesNearCostco]

Those nyloc nuts on my GC camber plates might be designed for 1-2 time use, but I've loosened and tightened mine at least 15 times because I adjust camber twice at almost every AutoX or track day. I only removed them completely about 3 times, but I sure hope they last longer than 2 uses!
But yeah I am thinking of getting the OEM M3 strut brace for the easy access to the camber plates.

[derbo]

Those nyloc nuts on my GC camber plates might be designed for 1-2 time use, but I've loosened and tightened mine at least 15 times because I adjust camber twice at almost every AutoX or track day. I only removed them completely about 3 times, but I sure hope they last longer than 2 uses!
But yeah I am thinking of getting the OEM M3 strut brace for the easy access to the camber plates.

I used them so much that a few of them were overtightened and ultimately stripped the nuts. I got 9 new M8 nuts on hand at all times in my garage. :) I traded my cf bar for a m3 strut bar. The CF bar was bling bling and was definitely awesome and I will miss it. :(

[Katu]

I used them so much that a few of them were overtightened and ultimately stripped the nuts. I got 9 new M8 nuts on hand at all times in my garage. :) I traded my cf bar for a m3 strut bar. The CF bar was bling bling and was definitely awesome and I will miss it. :(

Very interesting! You are making me want to get the M3 brace... I am doing my first autox day 3/24, can I ask how much of a difference the strut tower brace made when you installed it for autox/tracking?

[derbo]

Both of these bars work as they are suppose to. It's just essentially closing an open box with a bar on the top. The M3 bar is probably alot easier to obtain than this one. (CF bar is alot sexier). I wouldn't say its a piece that will shave any time off your runs but rather makes the car feel just a little bit sharper in response than without it.

[prowlerflyer]

The CF bar is a beautiful and functional piece, but not a competition strut brace. It limits camber neg adjustment, the mounting nuts are difficult to get at and is not adjustable in tension between the towers. The first two deficiencies can be corrected if you had the mounting holes/slots machined wider (just the nut sliding area) and longer.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[MrMaico]

The CF bar is a beautiful and functional piece, but not a competition strut brace. It limits camber neg adjustment, the mounting nuts are difficult to get at and is not adjustable in tension between the towers. The first two deficiencies can be corrected if you had the mounting holes/slots machined wider (just the nut sliding area) and longer.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Something else people should be aware of......it's not the bar to get if you're buying it to help provide a bit of protection against strut tower mushrooming. There are only 3 small ovals below the bolt hole areas that actually contact the strut tower. If that's the intent you are much better off installing the Xi strut tower reinforcement plates. I installed those when I replaced my suspension. Even if the bar was flat on the bottom, the plates mounted from underneath, are a better method of going about adding strength.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-323-e46-strut-tower-reinforcement-plates-pair.aspx

[Hermes]

Something else people should be aware of......it's not the bar to get if you're buying it to help provide a bit of protection against strut tower mushrooming. There are only 3 small ovals below the bolt hole areas that actually contact the strut tower. If that's the intent you are much better off installing the Xi strut tower reinforcement plates. I installed those when I replaced my suspension. Even if the bar was flat on the bottom, the plates mounted from underneath, are a better method of going about adding strength.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-323-e46-strut-tower-reinforcement-plates-pair.aspx

Agreed, thats why I will have both installed

[jayjay_dee]

Something else people should be aware of......it's not the bar to get if you're buying it to help provide a bit of protection against strut tower mushrooming. There are only 3 small ovals below the bolt hole areas that actually contact the strut tower. If that's the intent you are much better off installing the Xi strut tower reinforcement plates. I installed those when I replaced my suspension. Even if the bar was flat on the bottom, the plates mounted from underneath, are a better method of going about adding strength.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-323-e46-strut-tower-reinforcement-plates-pair.aspx

M3 strut brace any better?

[328ioc]

This looks so beautiful on the car but the M3 one is so practical too.....choices....

[kakashi169]

i doubt anyone is selling the cf strut brace anymore...unless they still have it in some U.S. dealerships?

[Hermes]

No dealerships have any AFAIK, you see them on eBay/CL/forums every once in a while

[shendrick]

So we all have lurking subframe issues in the rear and mushrooming strut towers in the front. Question is, would adding this front brace share loads from one side to another thus spreading the energy around - or concentrate it more on a specific side and accelerating strut tower issues? I was always interested in these but steered clear because I figured it would accelerate strut tower problems.

[danewilson77]

IDK. Great questions. I put my Cusco Strut bar on.....then developed a crack. I now have the TMS rough road kit AND the strut bar.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/VanosStrutmountcrack-1.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6541135335_9d72591260_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dw77zhpmafia/6541135335/)
BMW Reinforcement kit Installed (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dw77zhpmafia/6541135335/) by Dane Wilson77 (http://www.flickr.com/people/dw77zhpmafia/), on Flickr

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/2004%20Imola%20DSLR/AFEPrefilter.jpg

[az3579]

So we all have lurking subframe issues in the rear and mushrooming strut towers in the front. Question is, would adding this front brace share loads from one side to another thus spreading the energy around - or concentrate it more on a specific side and accelerating strut tower issues? I was always interested in these but steered clear because I figured it would accelerate strut tower problems.

Just FYI, the subframe issues primarily affected early build E46's. The later ones usually don't have that problem from what I've seen.


Sent from my iPhone 4S from Tapatalk

[HokieZHP]

So the strut tower reinforcement places mount under the strut mounting location?

[kayger12]

So we all have lurking subframe issues in the rear and mushrooming strut towers in the front. Question is, would adding this front brace share loads from one side to another thus spreading the energy around - or concentrate it more on a specific side and accelerating strut tower issues? I was always interested in these but steered clear because I figured it would accelerate strut tower problems.

It would spread the energy, imo. Can't see how it would accelerate wear.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[das boots]

[QUOTE=az3579;161780]Just FYI, the subframe issues primarily affected early build E46's. The later ones usually don't have that problem from what I've seen.


Sent from my iPhone 4S from Tapatalk[/QUOTE

Are there any documentations avilable concerning which specific E46s are affected? How come there are no recalls on this failure? Another E36 fiasco?????

[kayger12]

[QUOTE=az3579;161780]Just FYI, the subframe issues primarily affected early build E46's. The later ones usually don't have that problem from what I've seen.


Sent from my iPhone 4S from Tapatalk[/QUOTE

Are there any documentations avilable concerning which specific E46s are affected? How come there are no recalls on this failure? Another E36 fiasco?????

I don't remember the exact dates, but I believe they made a change in design from 2003 on. The 2002 and earlier e46s are the ones to be most concerned about.

There was a free dealer inspection and repair period as a result of a class action lawsuit, but that period ended in October of last year I believe.

Sent from my outdated Droid X

[MrMaico]

M3 strut brace any better?

No idea, I was hoping someone with one would answer that for you.


So the strut tower reinforcement places mount under the strut mounting location?

Correct, you don't even see them once installed. If you reach in by the top strut bearing you can just feel the edge of it.


It would spread the energy, imo. Can't see how it would accelerate wear.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Agreed. Not sure what happened in Danes case. I'd HOPE it wasn't related to adding the strut bar.

[danewilson77]

The thought from a colleague at work was:

The strut bar transfers some of the load from the opposite side. So....any one side could be carrying it's fair share.....plus some from the opposite side. Without the strut bar.....any one tower can only ever carry it's own load. I don't know.....and don't agree nor disagree. I am keeping the strut bar regardless.

In my case......I think that them punching pins out on the FSM's....left a pinpointed stress point at the respective tower hole.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/VanosStrutmountcrack-1.jpg

[das boots]

This is a reminder to keep an eye on the strut tower....even though I already have a strut bar. BTW, DW, did you have the crack fixed?

[MrMaico]

The thought from a colleague at work was:

The strut bar transfers some of the load from the opposite side. So....any one side could be carrying it's fair share.....plus some from the opposite side. Without the strut bar.....any one tower can only ever carry it's own load. I don't know.....and don't agree nor disagree. I am keeping the strut bar regardless.

In my case......I think that them punching pins out on the FSM's....left a pinpointed stress point at the respective tower hole.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/VanosStrutmountcrack-1.jpg

That all sounds logical to me. It's nice for peace of mind having the reinforcement plates installed. Less worry of mushrooming or cracking.

[danewilson77]

BTW, DW, did you have the crack fixed?

No


That all sounds logical to me. It's nice for peace of mind having the reinforcement plates installed. Less worry of mushrooming or cracking.

+1

[johnrando]

Dane, I thought you had gotten a quote for $40 or something and had it fixed, no?

[danewilson77]

I got a quote for $30.....but did not get it done yet.

Still mulling it over in my head. I know for a fact when the guy told me this....he wasn't thinking of the FSM below the weld area.

I want to make sure I am in the right mind set, when I go in there, to ask the guy to let me jack it up.....and drop that FSM 1/2" so the heat won't damage it. I really haven't had time (other priorities).....plus.....that crack hasn't done sheet, since I found it, drilled the termination hole, and added the rough road kit.

[kayger12]

The thought from a colleague at work was:

The strut bar transfers some of the load from the opposite side. So....any one side could be carrying it's fair share.....plus some from the opposite side. Without the strut bar.....any one tower can only ever carry it's own load. I don't know.....and don't agree nor disagree. I am keeping the strut bar regardless.

In my case......I think that them punching pins out on the FSM's....left a pinpointed stress point at the respective tower hole.


I don't particularly buy that argument. The force is distributed both ways- in my mind the side under higher stress would be giving up some of that load to the other side via the bar as opposed to taking it's max plus additional force from the other side.

That being said, I have zero knowledge to ultimately support or discount either opinion.

Sent from my outdated Droid X

[danewilson77]

I don't particularly buy that argument. The force is distributed both ways- in my mind the side under higher stress would be giving up some of that load to the other side via the bar as opposed to taking it's max plus additional force from the other side.

That being said, I have zero knowledge to ultimately support or discount either opinion.

Sent from my outdated Droid X

So....between the two of us......we have zero knowledge....hehe

[kayger12]

Lol-- exactly!

[BRGcoopahS]

I havent read the thread but arent e46's known for their weak shock towers? I read that after realizing my mini was known for that. My top shock mount was "mushrooming" and had to have it replaced and then installed a strut brace to further prevent it from mushrooming. Ever since its been installed 2 years ago neither of the shock tops have cracked or mushroomed. Im pretty sure the e46's are the same.

[johnrando]

I havent read the thread but arent e46's known for their weak shock towers? I read that after realizing my mini was known for that. My top shock mount was "mushrooming" and had to have it replaced and then installed a strut brace to further prevent it from mushrooming. Ever since its been installed 2 years ago neither of the shock tops have cracked or mushroomed. Im pretty sure the e46's are the same.

Yup, spot on. Good to know it's worked for you.

[BRGcoopahS]

Yup, spot on. Good to know it's worked for you.

Thanks. If anyones shock top is mushrooming, thats the best route to go. Its a permanent fix.

[danewilson77]

Thanks. If anyones shock top is mushrooming, thats the best route to go. Its a permanent fix.

Damage can still occur after strut brace install. Permanent is strut brace + Rough road kit.... Imho.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[HokieZHP]

So can the rough road kit be installed by simply removing the nuts at the top of the shock, dropping the shock down a bit and sliding in the plate?

[Hermes]

Yes... but you also need to disconnect the sway bar from the shock so it drops. You also probably want to put your jack under the control arms so you can control how far it drops

[HokieZHP]

Roger thanks. Thinking of doing this.

[prowlerflyer]

I don't particularly buy that argument. The force is distributed both ways- in my mind the side under higher stress would be giving up some of that load to the other side via the bar as opposed to taking it's max plus additional force from the other side.

That being said, I have zero knowledge to ultimately support or discount either opinion.

Sent from my outdated Droid X

You are both right, sort of. The loaded strut tower's deflection vector is neutralized in the middle of the strut brace by Newton's 3rd Law. This is minus small structural abnormalities that do allow some distortion. So the opposite tower is not forced down (that would require torsion bar and would be very detrimental to the chassis), but merely assisting the loaded tower in maintaining the correct geometry.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[kayger12]

You are both right, sort of. The loaded strut tower's deflection vector is neutralized in the middle of the strut brace by Newton's 3rd Law. This is minus small structural abnormalities that do allow some distortion. So the opposite tower is not forced down (that would require torsion bar and would be very detrimental to the chassis), but merely assisting the loaded tower in maintaining the correct geometry.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Excellent explanation.

And I actually understood it.

I think...

Sent from my outdated Droid X

[das boots]

You are both right, sort of. The loaded strut tower's deflection vector is neutralized in the middle of the strut brace by Newton's 3rd Law. This is minus small structural abnormalities that do allow some distortion. So the opposite tower is not forced down (that would require torsion bar and would be very detrimental to the chassis), but merely assisting the loaded tower in maintaining the correct geometry.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Wouldn't that depend on how much load/stress the brace is able to withstand in order to uphold Newton's Law on Motion? If the brace is not designed to do this, then all are for nothing and the strut brace would end up as a cosmetic.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[kakashi169]

insane thread this has turned out to be

[zhpnsnv]

You are both right, sort of. The loaded strut tower's deflection vector is neutralized in the middle of the strut brace by Newton's 3rd Law. This is minus small structural abnormalities that do allow some distortion. So the opposite tower is not forced down (that would require torsion bar and would be very detrimental to the chassis), but merely assisting the loaded tower in maintaining the correct geometry.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Seriously guys, did he have to spell it put for you?????? Amateurs.

:)))

[prowlerflyer]

Wouldn't that depend on how much load/stress the brace is able to withstand in order to uphold Newton's Law on Motion? If the brace is not designed to do this, then all are for nothing and the strut brace would end up as a cosmetic.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Well, yes, there is engineering involved. If I string a piece of wire between the towers it will be the weak link and deform.

Strut Braces combat deflection by either being mounted above the vector plane of deflection, or have an arched design to achieve the same effect. The material used dictates which way you go.

Older cars used a "Monte Carlo" type strut brace that triangulated it the brace back to the firewall. This was mostly due to less chassis strength than we enjoy now. It attempted to prevent simultaneous inward and upward deflection of both towers under heavy breaking or rough surfaces. Some full race cars tie the towers into the cage for the same effect, usually because off the magnified stress if racing slicks.

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[kakashi169]

so at what speed do i have to turn at to feel the difference of having the brace in effect?

[HokieZHP]

When I had mine, I never really noticed a huge difference in bracing while cornering.

[kakashi169]

really...i honest cant feel a difference either =\

[Beau B]

I have never really been able to notice a difference with them on my past cars, however I always used them in the hopes it would keep my strut towers from mushrooming. The MINI guys swear by strut tower braces for that..

Beau

[az3579]

It is not a difference you're really supposed to feel. It does, however, provide some rigidity, which is very useful for us who regularly track their cars.
Over time, the chassis warps ever so slightly, and that is when stuff just happens to not quite fit right, and the chassis becomes weaker with the more wear and tear you put on the car. Of course, it takes a long time for it to ever be noticeable, but for those of us who put lots of wear on the car with heavy cornering forces such as those experienced at the track, this helps with that. Less chassis flex the better!

[M0nk3y]

so at what speed do i have to turn at to feel the difference of having the brace in effect?

IMO it sounds like you should look into a Sway Bar, which provides a stable front end that can be noticed daily driving and on autox/track.

With my new bar and recent alignment done last week...the car is literally on rails...it will be interesting if i can even induce understeer this weekend autoxing

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[BimmerWill]

IMO it sounds like you should look into a Sway Bar, which provides a stable front end that can be noticed daily driving and on autox/track.

With my new bar and recent alignment done last week...the car is literally on rails...it will be interesting if i can even induce understeer this weekend autoxing

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

Do you feel that a bigger aftermarket front sway bar would benefit more than a strut brace on top? Or would it be best to simply get both?

[M0nk3y]

Do you feel that a bigger aftermarket front sway bar would benefit more than a strut brace on top? Or would it be best to simply get both?

Better for swaybar any day.

It helps resists the wheels from going positive camber in high G turns. Strut bar can never do that.

Warning: your ride will be stiffer afterwards

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[BimmerWill]

Better for swaybar any day.

It helps resists the wheels from going positive camber in high G turns. Strut bar can never do that.

Warning: your ride will be stiffer afterwards

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Makes sense, will it make that much of a difference worth sacrificing the ride? I dont track it but take it up on local twisties every now and then. Noticed it will understeer if i give it a little too much going around a sharp corner.

[danewilson77]

Makes sense, will it make that much of a difference worth sacrificing the ride? I dont track it but take it up on local twisties every now and then. Noticed it will understeer if i give it a little too much going around a sharp corner.

Non track local twisty guy....I wouldn't worry about it. ZHP sway is plenty good.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

[M0nk3y]

Non track local twisty guy....I wouldn't worry about it. ZHP sway is plenty good.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

I'll agree with that.

Here is the jist of a Sway Bar:


Tires, springs, shocks, and sway bars all absorb energy and the mass of the vehicle during braking, acceleration, and cornering.

So what do sway bars do?

Stiffer sway bars reduce body roll and help mid cornering. Reduction of body roll means that mass will be loaded onto the other components, and namely the tires as those are the only points of contact to the actual ground (hopefully). The tires now have to work harder on the corner end that has less body roll. If you were using 100% of the tires grip already in cornering, and now you are asking the tire to handle 20% more grip due to weight transfer from a stiffer sway bar, the tire will break loose. Because you know, it can't do 120% of the work considering the limit is 100%.

Easy enough?

Last year running on Toyo T1Rs (280 Treadwear)

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/300741_2077232218632_1479780173_32184876_5052462_n .jpg

This year running on Hankook RS3s (140 Treadwear) with a 30mm swaybar installed (48% increase in stiffness over my stock)

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/545012_3451608577182_1479780173_32861689_267994633 _n.jpg

Even with a stickier tire, I have less body roll.

In my case, in order to compensate for loss of grip on the front end, I increased my camber to -2.3

[kakashi169]

so ditch the bar and get a sway bar? lol

[BimmerWill]

Non track local twisty guy....I wouldn't worry about it. ZHP sway is plenty good.

Sent from Williamsburg, VA USA

I don't haz ZHP :(

Is the stock one on the regular 330 thick enough?

[BimmerWill]

I'll agree with that.

Here is the jist of a Sway Bar:



Last year running on Toyo T1Rs (280 Treadwear)


This year running on Hankook RS3s (140 Treadwear) with a 30mm swaybar installed (48% increase in stiffness over my stock)

Even with a stickier tire, I have less body roll.

In my case, in order to compensate for loss of grip on the front end, I increased my camber to -2.3

Great comparison shot...i'm thinking due to my not really necessary need for it I may just put my money towards a ssk...any recommendations fellas?

[kakashi169]

either way, i still love my bar to death even tho the benefits are hard to feel