Potentially Serious Problem

[Newjack]

For the past couple months I have been dealing with a faulty oil level sensor. Well, at least I was pretty sure it was a bad sensor. Most of the time it would come on, only to check my oil and find out it was still within an acceptable range.

Well, in the last month it had been coming on a lot more than usual. So I checked it just to make sure. Sure enough my dipstick is telling me my oil is right at the minimum level. So I add in about 300ml of oil. The very next day as soon as I get home from class I park my car and the light turns on as soon as the engine shuts off. I check the oil level again, and it is maybe a little lower, but definitely above the minimum and in an acceptable range. (God damn faulty sensor).

Last week the oil light starts coming on again (this time more than usual) So I check the oil level this past Sunday. My dipstick says it is below the minimum. Fuck.

I put the car in the garage and put it on ramps. Removed the underbelly shield to get a better look at the OFHG area as well as checking on my oil pan. No leaking oil. No signs of oil burning from either location. So I look on the top of the car, by the oil filter as well as around the valve cover gasket. No oil present. No burning oil smell. No white smoke when the car is running. Nothing.

I ask my stepdad what I should do about it. He says "You got those sparkplugs a while ago, we can do your plugs and see how bad they are" Ok.

Changed out all of the spark plugs and this is what I found. (OE spark plugs were still in the car. 97k on these plugs. Still said BMW on them so I know they are OE)

From left to right Cylinder 1,2,3,4,5,6

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3476/p1010116y.jpg

Cylinder 1,2,3

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9200/p1010117yk.jpg

Cylinder 2(barely visible, far left) 3,4

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3567/p1010118sb.jpg

Cylinder 4,5,6

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8049/p1010119h.jpg




So my question is this; what is my car telling me? Where is my oil going?
Do I need to do my CCV? Is it possible that my oil is leaking into my coolant system?

I'm at a loss here...

[johnnyrad]

Yea they certainly needed changing. I see the threads on the first four plugs have oil coating them, but plugs five and six almost nothing. Have you replaced your valve cover gasket? I'm certainly no mechanic, just a thought tho.

[Newjack]

Valve cover gasket has not been replaced. I don't think the PO changed it out either.

I have inspected the valve cover gasket and didn't notice any leaking oil. I don't doubt that it needs to be replaced, I had planned on doing it when I redo my VANOS unit.

[danewilson77]

IDK. Seals may be going.

[LivesNearCostco]

If you're losing oil but it's not leaking onto the floor, underbody shield, or exhaust manifold, then it's leaving your engine somehow. This can be via failed CCV or bad piston rings letting oil get into the cylinders to burn up. Or aliens from Cowboys and Aliens decided they want black gold and have been stealing yours via teleportation. (That helps explain why oil prices are so high again.)

The VCG has a big rectangle that seals the perimeter of the VC and two rectangles with 6 holes (3 holes per rectangle) that seals the VC against the spark plug wells. Maybe in your case the center rectangles started leaking first, before the right/downhill side of the big VCG rectangle, which likes to leak onto the exhaust manifolds.

BUT, even if your VCG is leaking onto the plugs, I don't think it could leak as much oil as you say you're losing, unless your spark plug wells were full of oil. I say replace the VCG, but also look into:

1) CCV tests, either Zip-loc bag or blowing into the VC vent tube test.
2) Raise care safely and feel on top of reinforcement plate with paper towel. Leaking oil (or P/S ATF) can pool on top of that plate.
3) Hire Harrison Ford, Olivia Wilde, and Daniel Craig to get rid of the aliens

[Newjack]

Ah I knew I forgot to mention something.

When I checked my plugs, the spark plug wells were all extremely clean. To be more precise because I don't know the technical terms for this stuff, the cylinder where my coil park is inserted was clean.

1) Can you elaborate on how to test to see if my CCV is bad? Maybe a DIY somewhere?

2) I checked underneath the car and didn't notice any leaks. If it is leaking on the reinforcement plate, would I not have noticed it with right away with a quick inspection?

3)
http://cannygal.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/tsoukalos.jpg?w=490

[danewilson77]

Ah I knew I forgot to mention something.

When I checked my plugs, the spark plug wells were all extremely clean. To be more precise because I don't know the technical terms for this stuff, the cylinder where my coil park is inserted was clean.

1) Can you elaborate on how to test to see if my CCV is bad? Maybe a DIY somewhere?

2) I checked underneath the car and didn't notice any leaks. If it is leaking on the reinforcement plate, would I not have noticed it with right away with a quick inspection?

3)
http://cannygal.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/tsoukalos.jpg?w=490

Knowing that bit of additional data, I may be leaning toward ccv.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Johnmadd]

I would agree with vcg, it leaked just like that on my e30. Should be an easy cheap fix im guessing if it is the vcg.

[zj96sc]

More serious (and less likely) than any of the rest, what what's your coolant level like?

[SoarinZHP]

I am leaning towards the VCG. Being the car resides in Maryland - I would do the CCV test or take it somewhere that knows how to test/diagnose it. You can do the test by running the car with the filler cap removed. Grab a plastic bag from a grocery story. Without letting go of the bag, stretch a portion of it taught and place it over the open filler hole. If there is gentle suction on it, your CCV should be good.

Also, if you are having sensor problems, replace the sensor next time you change your oil. It is very easy to do.

[Newjack]

More serious (and less likely) than any of the rest, what what's your coolant level like?

To be honest, I haven't checked it since I did my cooling system refresh back at the end of September.

[LivesNearCostco]

And if your valve cover oil fill hole tries to eat the plastic bag like a voracious monster, then your CCV is likely bad!

If a little oil leaks onto the reinforcement plate you won't see it unless you remove the plate or feel on top of it. If a lot leaks onto the plate, you will see it dripping off the plate. If you're under the car again, just wipe on the topside of the plate with a paper towel or rag around the back edge near the transmission, or around the oil drain cutout. Speaking of aliens, I've heard a bad CCV sometimes makes a Chewbacca sound when you shut the car down.

If the CCV is eating the oil and spitting it into the intake, it won't be on the plate, but maybe that could explain the oil on the plug threads?

[Newjack]

So I checked my coolant level as well as my oil level. Oil level is perfect. Right on the high end of the stick after adding in oil on Sunday.

Coolant level is within the alloted range. I wouldn't think I had a leak anywhere, everything was replaced back in September (except the radiator)

I tried doing the plastic bag test to check my CCV. Dunno if I did it right, but I didn't hear any chewbacca noise when I took the oil cap off when it was running. When I put the bag over the hole, it got sucked in. With a substantial amount of force. If I kept feeding it more bag it would keep sucking all of it in.

Heres a short (loud) video I made when attempting the test. (It was windy)


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/45065965/Car/0301121519.3gp

[johnnyrad]

When I put the bag over the hole, it got sucked in. With a substantial amount of force.

I don't think that substanial force is a good thing... I did the same test with a sandwich baggie (during my lunch break of course) and I got a very small and mild suction, nothing forceful at all. If you car wants to eat the bag, sound like you might have do replace your CCV. Bavauto has a great diy vid on replacing it on their blog as other's have mentioned.

[Newjack]

I don't think that substanial force is a good thing... I did the same test with a sandwich baggie (during my lunch break of course) and I got a very small and mild suction, nothing forceful at all. If you car wants to eat the bag, sound like you might have do replace your CCV. Bavauto has a great diy vid on replacing it on their blog as other's have mentioned.

Yeah I watched the DIY that bavauto had for replacing the CCV. :cringe

The CCV is the only thing I can think of that fits my problem. I don't know where else the oil would be going.

I'm a little disappointed, seeing as my car is an '05, I figured it would have had fresher parts and upgraded stuff in it. (I have hydraulic pulleys not mechanical)

Can anyone else confirm the excessive sucking is the CCV going bad?


Also, thanks for the responses guys. Much appreciated.

[johnnyrad]

I'm a little disappointed, seeing as my car is an '05

No worries, part of owning a bmw. The car forces you to get to know it, whether you want to or not. ;)

[LivesNearCostco]

From what I heard, a strong sucking of the bag at the oil fill port is bad. Watching your video, it didn't look to me like it was really trying to eat the bag, though the narrator (you?) said it was. It is supposed to have some suction there even when CCV is operating normally and it looked like you were using a standard grocery bag, which is pretty flimsy. The ZipLoc bag is stiffer, especially the freezer bags. Maybe try again with a stiffer bag and post the video? Or email link of your video to Rajaie of Beisan Systems and get his opinion.

I'm on the road right now with the minivan. When I get home I will try to do the test, film it, and post the video. But that won't be until Sunday at the earliest.

[SoarinZHP]

The car forces you to get to know it, whether you want to or not. ;)

Isn't that the truth... I never knew I could have such intimacy with a car.

[johnnyrad]

^Ever see the movie Christine?? Hahaha that's our cars!

[das boots]

Let me hijack this thread a little bit.....oil light came on while on way to work this morning. I checked the dip stick when I got to work. Oil level was below the 2nd mark. Good thing, I always carry a qt. of oil. I will check on way home if this solves the problem. I would like to compare observations with the rest of you....

1) Before this, whenever I shut off engine, the oil light stays on until I remove the key. Is this normal?

2) Where is the oil level sensor located? Any pics of the area? P/N of the sensor?

3) How much does the ZHP consume oil in between oil changes?

4) Doing the plastic suction over the oil fill port....is that the only way to test of CCV is going bad?

5) Why is there more concerns on oil with this M54 engine than on the M54 on a 5er? I agree, the 5er also consumes oil in between changes, but I less oil concerns for the 5er.....

[danewilson77]

Oil level sensor is located in the oil pan. You can see it from the bottom.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/oil_level_sensor_diy_oil_pan.jpg

My ZHP consumes zero oil between changes, however...BMW says 1qt/1000 miles is normal. I am skeptical about this though.

DIY

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bokchoys.com/differential/pictures/oil_level_sensor_diy_oil_pan.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bokchoys.com/differential/diy_oil_level_sensor.htm&usg=__mDS7aouwyT7Ow2NFxZFfuYoNNKs=&h=450&w=600&sz=81&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&tbnid=lHYBJuq_qNHWPM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&ei=0DxWT7D3F422tweE3vHyCA&prev=/search%3Fq%3De46%2Boil%2Blevel%2Bsensor%26um%3D1%2 6hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1

[das boots]

How often do these sensors go bad in ZHPs in reference to Newjack's oil situation? I never had any oil level sensor problems in all of my ownership of past & present BMWs.

However, I do agreee that I have an oil consumption of at least a qt every 2.5K mi. in my 5er. On this ZHP, with low oil level, it is now approx. 3K mi between oil change. So, not bad. I still need to monitor that this is a normal occurance instead of a leak somewhere....

[zj96sc]

All of my BMWs have been all over the map.

My E36Ms loved oil - 1qt/1k was not out of the question.

The ZHP is a little better, i'm using about .5qt/5k.

The E30 used about 1qt/1k, but mostly because it was all over my garage floor. :blink

My dad frequently used to mention how much my mom's e34 and e46 touring liked oil too.

I think it has a lot to do with how the motors get broken in. Once that's set, if it is a little loose with high compression and high revs - just the nature of the game.

[telijah]

The oil level sensor is fairly known to be a problem on the E46 line. Mine use to consume about one quart between my 7500 mile oil changes, however mine consumes zero after replacing the rear main seal when I did a clutch job roughly 14k miles / 1 year ago.

[LivesNearCostco]

Mine car last consumed about 1.5 quarts over 8,000 miles, which works out to like 1/5th quart per 1000 miles. I'm always over-filling it slightly to be just above the upper mark on the dipstick. I think, but am not sure, that it consumes oil faster if I do more track and AutoX days. (Dane, I think the 1 quart/1000 miles is BMW's maximum allowable consumption limit before they feel they have to do something under warranty, not the typical consumption.)

I hear another test for bad CCV is to disconnect the tube that runs from valve cover to the CCV and blow into it. If you hear oil bubbling in the oil pan, you're good. If you do not hear oil bubbling and/or hear air escaping from the dipstick area, then either CCV is bad or one of the hoses connecting to the CCV is bad. (On e46 fanatics there was a thread about a guy who had "CCV" problems but he replaced only the one hose from the CCV to the dipstick and he felt that fixed his issues.) One caveat, if your CCV hoses are old, be careful disconnecting the hose from the VC or you can break it.


3) How much does the ZHP consume oil in between oil changes?
4) Doing the plastic suction over the oil fill port....is that the only way to test of CCV is going bad?

[das boots]

The oil light did go out after filling 1 qt. Calculated I had to add a qt after 2400 mi. from last oil change. I will have to do a blow job to the CCV soon when time frees up. BTW, would the bubbling be loud or very obvious? I take it, that the dipstick has to be removed during the blow job.

I also found this rag laying on the trunk of my M3......

[Newjack]

I still think my oil problem is CCV related. I have checked on my oil level regularly and never had to add any oil until the last 3 months. So I go 5000 miles without needing any oil, to needing almost a quart 2000 miles later.

Oh and I have officially confirmed my oil sensor to be SNAFU. Oil light went on the other day. Parked it and checked the stick and it was almost at the top. Perfectly fine.

[LivesNearCostco]

I don't know if you need to remove the dipstick to do the CCV blow test. I've been too afraid of eating oil to try it!

[das boots]

It shouldn't take much pressure to blow air in....but where would the air go when a BJ is done when the dipstick is in place sealed? BTW, where did you get the T/S method of the BJ?....or the suction method?

[LivesNearCostco]

If a CCV hose is broken the air will just leak out of that hose. If no hoses are broken then I guess the air bubbles up in the oil pan then makes its way back up to the valve/camshaft area and out the valve cover (since you disconnect the hose there). It must follow whatever route the oil follows when you pour it into the oil fill hole and it drains into the oil pan. Here's what Rajaie says in his VANOS and CCV troubleshooting tips. He doesn't say (in this post) if you should open the dipstick or not.

"The crankcase vent valve and 4 associate hoses fail and cause a vacuum leak. The valve gets stuck open and the hoses crack. These last 70-120k miles and usually fail 80-90k miles. Here are a couple diagnoses. At warm idle, place a small plastic freezer storage bag on its side over the oil fill hole. If the bag sits on top or gets slightly sucked in, ~1”, the valve is good. If the bag gets significantly sucked in the hole the valve is stuck open and bad. With the engine off and cold, carefully remove the hose at the valve cover front corner. Blow hard into the hose. You should hear oil bubbling in the oil pan. If you don’t hear the bubbling the top or bottom hose is likely cracked. The bottom hose often breaks just below the valve connection. There can also be cracks in the other two hoses."

In another post he says, "The crankcase vent valve bag test only tests the valve. Do the blow test to test 2 of the hoses. You need to find the hissing sound source. This is likely a vacuum leak. The common cause under the intake manifold is the crankcase vent valve and 4 hoses. Hopefully once you resolve this vacuum leak the cyl 5 misfire will also resolve."

The whole thread is here (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=524336). or email Rajaie at support@beisansystems.com

[aurelius]

$30 solution?

Can't vouch for this personally but will definitely consider when my CCV time comes:

http://vsetrack.com/track_reports/2010/bmw_motorsport_oil_separator/bmw_motorsport_oil_separator.htm

[Newjack]

$30 solution?

Can't vouch for this personally but will definitely consider when my CCV time comes:

http://vsetrack.com/track_reports/2010/bmw_motorsport_oil_separator/bmw_motorsport_oil_separator.htm

That's very interesting. I wonder if anyone has done it on an E46, or how it would be routed.

[das boots]

If a CCV hose is broken the air will just leak out of that hose. If no hoses are broken then I guess the air bubbles up in the oil pan then makes its way back up to the valve/camshaft area and out the valve cover (since you disconnect the hose there). It must follow whatever route the oil follows when you pour it into the oil fill hole and it drains into the oil pan. Here's what Rajaie says in his VANOS and CCV troubleshooting tips. He doesn't say (in this post) if you should open the dipstick or not.

"The crankcase vent valve and 4 associate hoses fail and cause a vacuum leak. The valve gets stuck open and the hoses crack. These last 70-120k miles and usually fail 80-90k miles. Here are a couple diagnoses. At warm idle, place a small plastic freezer storage bag on its side over the oil fill hole. If the bag sits on top or gets slightly sucked in, ~1”, the valve is good. If the bag gets significantly sucked in the hole the valve is stuck open and bad. With the engine off and cold, carefully remove the hose at the valve cover front corner. Blow hard into the hose. You should hear oil bubbling in the oil pan. If you don’t hear the bubbling the top or bottom hose is likely cracked. The bottom hose often breaks just below the valve connection. There can also be cracks in the other two hoses."

In another post he says, "The crankcase vent valve bag test only tests the valve. Do the blow test to test 2 of the hoses. You need to find the hissing sound source. This is likely a vacuum leak. The common cause under the intake manifold is the crankcase vent valve and 4 hoses. Hopefully once you resolve this vacuum leak the cyl 5 misfire will also resolve."

The whole thread is here (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=524336). or email Rajaie at support@beisansystems.com

Thanks for inquiring with Rajaie. That says a lot. Me thinks the dipstick stays in place. Time to get an old ziploc bag ready.....

[aurelius]

Forgetting where I saw it but there's also a balloon test.

If you can get a small balloon to fit securely over the dipstick tube, pressure should be enough to blow up the balloon if all is well in CCV Land. With motor running, of course.

[das boots]

I think they still have game prize awards for ballons at Chuckie-Cheez.......balloon test sounds practical.

Oh wait, my son just reminded me that they have balloons at Party City or at Vons....

[das boots]

A follow-up on this thread.....Is there a CCV kit? What does the kit consist? Or parts needs to be purchased individually? Parts mostly required will be items # 1 - 4. On the E46Fs....someone mentioned about the dipstick guide tube needs to be replaced/updated. Any info on this?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=EV53&mospid=47725&btnr=11_2194&hg=11&fg=15

[aurelius]

See ECS Tuning kit: ES#1905414

See also BMW SIB 110803 here:

http://db.tt/4chT5QGM

[das boots]

If I am to understand the SIB and the ECS kit, all CCV needs to be replaced or upgraded to Level 2 even though they are not in Cold-climates? BTW, thanks for the SIB and the ECS kit. Very informative. Evidently, there is a Level 2 kit available through other sources since the OE P/N provided. Will source which ones has the cheapest price.

[aurelius]

The official recommendation is to swap to the cold weather insulated hoses, yes.

I'm personally not too concerned here in TX though. At least not at my current mileage and after successful "bag & blow" tests.

Edit: the "amp;" above should be only an ampersand symbol. Seems to be a recent Tapatalk bug.

[das boots]

Haven't done the bag test. But 'amp & blow'? 'Splain....

[aurelius]

The whole "amp;" issue lately seems to be a result of posting via the latest version of Tapatalk. It's not supposed to show up like that. It results from using the ampersand symbol instead of the word "and."

Anyhow, "bag AND blow" tests. Both of which are noted earlier in this thread, if memory serves. If not, see CCV section of the following, most but not all of which is attributable to the above-quoted Rajaie of Beisan Systems:

http://db.tt/pgD19it

[das boots]

Got it. Then I know what is the 'blow'. Thanks.

[das boots]

Aurelius...what and where is that ICV rubber grommet located that the ECS kit came with????? Looks more like some elephant trunk.

[danewilson77]

Aurelius...what and where is that ICV rubber grommet located that the ECS kit came with????? Looks more like some elephant trunk.

No. The ICV grommet is the piece on the engine side. Not the lower intake boot.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[aurelius]

Not 100% sure but reminds me I should remove my ICV for cleaning and inspection of those hoses down there. I think what DW is indicating is that the grommet you're referring to is for where the ICV connects to the motor. Definitely use it or you'll have a vac leak.

[danewilson77]

Not 100% sure but reminds me I should remove my ICV for cleaning and inspection of those hoses down there. I think what DW is indicating is that the grommet you're referring to is for where the ICV connects to the motor. Definitely use it or you'll have a vac leak.

Yes.....The ICV gets "pressed" into the circular gasket/grommet. The grommet actually has several circumferential ribs, to create an arduous path for air to flow. Kind of like the gland seals on a steam turbine generator.....only tighter.

[das boots]

Okay...I see it on the photos I took when I removed the lower rubber intake boot that attaches to the ICV. Anybody can provide a P/N for the grommet?

[danewilson77]

Okay...I see it on the photos I took when I removed the lower rubber intake boot that attaches to the ICV. Anybody can provide a P/N for the grommet?

PC 10.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=EV53&mospid=47725&btnr=11_2879& hg=11&fg=40

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/199.png

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[das boots]

LOL. I kept on looking for something similar to an elephant trunk when I went through the drawing by RealOEM.. Thanks.