What should my next major mod be, planning for this coming season.

[Chad44]

So, I think I'm only going to be able to swing one more major upgrade for this coming season. Most of my driving will be autocross, but I WILL make it to a track and want to push the car and myself.

I am in the middle of a brake upgrade that will put me in good position there, and plan to get a new set of tires at the beginning of the season...

Here are the potential mods I am trying to chose between:

1. Limited Slip Diff, prob not changing gear ratio.
2. swap my (new)zhp shocks and HR coils for KW V2 or V3's.
3. R-compound tires

Any advice and info would be appreciated.

[LivesNearCostco]

Do you have any AutoX class restrictions? Do you have a dedicated set of track/AutoX wheels? Is your goal just to go as fast as possible, or are you also trying to decide which mod will give you the most fun and enjoyment? Do the KW coilovers come with--or would you add--camber plates?

I have read that for AutoX, the 1st most important mod is the driver, 2nd most important is tires, and then comes any other suspension stuff (springs, shocks, camber, swaybars, bushings, strut brace, etc.)

[Chad44]

I should have also mentioned this is my daily driver.. I have another set of wheels that the r- compounds would go on- however I wouldn't use them for Autocross, I really was thinking about the track.

I agree about modding the driver, but already feel like certain limitations of the car are holding me back- this is where the LSD comes in... I thought this would be my most likely mod because I would enjoy it in all situations including daily driving. The open diff allows the car to correct itself when I put too much power down in some situations by just spinning the tire, but more often than that I one leg it when a light fishtail and 2 wheeled take of is what I'm trying to do. (mostly in Autocross, but also on the occasional on ramp)

I want to go fast, have fun, and come in first... I'm an "all-in" kind of person.

I do have camber plates, and the KW suspension has them also. Because I have lowering springs on stock shocks, the rebound feels off on the car... This is the part that would be most noticeable to me, I'm just not happy with the feel of the suspension in certain aspects- but it does it's job and sticks to the road pretty damn well.




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[M0nk3y]

Here is my opinion on R-Comps, don't get them.

Unless you've been doing Auto-X or Track for years and years to come, and you can't shave anymore time. R-Comps masks user error. When I say that, they don't provide user feed-back like normal tires do (aka-screeching). Their break-away is NOT linear, and at one point in a turn you can have all the grip in the world, the next you can be going off track at 80 into a wall. Especially for people who are still learning lines...etc, do NOT get them. I drove my friends BSP prep'ed E36 M3 on R-Comps and it was a world's difference, I ended up spinning it at 50 MPH flat out in a turn on the Auto-X course because I thought I had the grip.

Get some sticky street tires. I wanted to go to R-Comps but I can't justify the costs, but given you will be going through a set every year. It's not worth it. They are referred to crack, because once you go onto it you can never go back.

With that being said, I suggest you start modding into STX. ZHPs are really good cars when they are modded correctly into that class:

http://www.scca.com/downloads/#solo

I think you should start reading the rules to STX and go from there. I don't know/remember if changing the diff would throw you into a different class (like a prepared class or street mod).

What times were you running compared to other cars in your class?

[Hermes]

coilovers will be the best mod to plan for this year if you want to track your car. the tires are a temporary mod that will run out fast, and the LSD won't help your times as much as a good suspension will

[spencers]

Easy. R-Comps!

Kidding. Suspension would help..

[M0nk3y]

I feel suspension should be matched with Sway Bars if handling is where you want to gain...yes?

[Chad44]

So throwing away the idea of r-comps... I do want better handling, though with my current setup it's not bad- the weakest links this past year were my brakes and tires. I bought a set of style 71s with brand new pilot sport sp1s... Before I knew anything about tires. They did okay, but I will do potenza so3s, or star spec, or something this year with a bit better grip, and those tires will be put onto my vmr vb3s.

As of last week I had been planning on changing to a coil over system, but then started thinking about LSDs.

I'm open to other ideas if anyone has them- I am working with a budget of about $1500 on this.


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[Chad44]

Or do I just do the conforti shark I've been planning on and save the rest for more hpde's?

[LivesNearCostco]

I've never driven with a LSD, but my understanding is that for track and AutoX, it really helps just with putting power down on corner exit, especially tight corners... and maybe all the corners when it's wet. I have played with regular and sticky street tires (not R-comps) and noticed that with the stickier tires, I have fewer problems with DSC kicking in (for those times when I didn't turn it off) and with the rear end one-wheel pogo on corner exit. I was going to say front camber is the first thing you should do, but since you've already got camber...


Tires help you everywhere but probably last 1-2 seasons (with camber plates and dedicated wheels). The stickier they are, the faster you use them up! Mine R-S3s lasted for about 8 months, which was 10 track days plus 8 Autox days. I heard maybe Star Specs last a little longer.
LSD lasts forever (basically) but pretty much only helps on corner exit. Or if you want to get into drifting.
Suspension improvements last years and can have aesthetic benefits if you want to lower the car more but probably not as much effect on time as stickier tires. However, suspension improvements can help your front tires last longer by wearing more evenly
If you're going to the track, you might need to upgrade brake pads too (and flush brake fluid). That might be the first track mod.


In the San Diego and Los Angeles CCA AutoX classes, just having camber plates or lowering springs already puts you in "modified" class so you could do R-comps, LSD, and coilovers (and most other mods except FI or slicks) and stay in the same class. The Golden Gate (San Francisco) chapter uses points, so you could probably do any 2 of those mods (coilovers and LSD, or LSD and stickier tires) and stay in the base ZHP class, but doing all three of them would bump you up a class. In SCCA... I'm not so familiar but you're already way out of stock class, where about the only allowed mods are tires (including R-comps), intake, shocks and front swaybar. If you're serious about SCCA competition (someone suggested STX), then mod to the class rules.

[spencers]

Talk Murph down to $1500.
http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?6118-For-Sale-E46-AST-4200-coilovers

AST is a top dog in auto-x coilovers.

[Chad44]

It's too much for me considering they don't include springs, rear mounts or camber plates. I think i'd rather get a set of KW v2's at 1500 shipped with everything.
How much do springs cost? Where would I find the brackets?

[LivesNearCostco]

Vorshlag's web site shows Hypercoil coilover springs for $81 to $103 each. Ground Control sells most of their Eibach coilover springs for $69 each and their own coilover springs (made by Eibach) for $59 each. A good set of RSMs cost $100/pair. If the ASTs rear shocks use 10mm shafts you can probably use your stock RSMs, but if they are top adjust then they probably need a 12mm RSM.

[Chad44]

Okay, so springs aren't bad... I'll have to do some research...


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[danewilson77]

Okay, so springs aren't bad... I'll have to do some research...


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Maybe.....

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Hermes]

I was talking to Tom yesterday, he said he's seen entire M3 rear ends for about $1000 online. I'll tell him to let you know if he see's one again

[Chad44]

I've never driven with a LSD, but my understanding is that for track and AutoX, it really helps just with putting power down on corner exit, especially tight corners... and maybe all the corners when it's wet. I have played with regular and sticky street tires (not R-comps) and noticed that with the stickier tires, I have fewer problems with DSC kicking in (for those times when I didn't turn it off) and with the rear end one-wheel pogo on corner exit. I was going to say front camber is the first thing you should do, but since you've already got camber...


Tires help you everywhere but probably last 1-2 seasons (with camber plates and dedicated wheels). The stickier they are, the faster you use them up! Mine R-S3s lasted for about 8 months, which was 10 track days plus 8 Autox days. I heard maybe Star Specs last a little longer.
LSD lasts forever (basically) but pretty much only helps on corner exit. Or if you want to get into drifting.
Suspension improvements last years and can have aesthetic benefits if you want to lower the car more but probably not as much effect on time as stickier tires. However, suspension improvements can help your front tires last longer by wearing more evenly
If you're going to the track, you might need to upgrade brake pads too (and flush brake fluid). That might be the first track mod.


In the San Diego and Los Angeles CCA AutoX classes, just having camber plates or lowering springs already puts you in "modified" class so you could do R-comps, LSD, and coilovers (and most other mods except FI or slicks) and stay in the same class. The Golden Gate (San Francisco) chapter uses points, so you could probably do any 2 of those mods (coilovers and LSD, or LSD and stickier tires) and stay in the base ZHP class, but doing all three of them would bump you up a class. In SCCA... I'm not so familiar but you're already way out of stock class, where about the only allowed mods are tires (including R-comps), intake, shocks and front swaybar. If you're serious about SCCA competition (someone suggested STX), then mod to the class rules.

I completely missed your post until now. I am only in Bmwcca, and we do points, but I am already out of Zhp original class. I'm less worried about my standing in the class as I am about being the most kick ass driver I can be.
I planned to get star specs or something for this season and is separate from my $1500 budget.
Also, I have a set of 135 brembos that will be rebuilt and on the car in the next few weeks (waiting on stop tech pistons and seals) so the braking will be under control.

I have always wanted a LSD, and while I don't plan to do any competitive drifting, I am most comfortable while sliding sideways at speed... Lots of mud time in my jeeps growing up, rally style. (hoping to buy a Subaru next year to try out rally)


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[Chad44]

I was talking to Tom yesterday, he said he's seen entire M3 rear ends for about $1000 online. I'll tell him to let you know if he see's one again

I have looked into this option before, however the stock m3 3.64 ratio is WAY too steep for my daily driver. I would love to have that wider stance and would happily flare my fenders to accommodate it!


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[zhp43867]

So, I think I'm only going to be able to swing one more major upgrade for this coming season. Most of my driving will be autocross, but I WILL make it to a track and want to push the car and myself.

I am in the middle of a brake upgrade that will put me in good position there, and plan to get a new set of tires at the beginning of the season...

Here are the potential mods I am trying to chose between:

1. Limited Slip Diff, prob not changing gear ratio.
2. swap my (new)zhp shocks and HR coils for KW V2 or V3's.
3. R-compound tires

Any advice and info would be appreciated.

That one.

[Johnmadd]

I have looked into this option before, however the stock m3 3.64 ratio is WAY too steep for my daily driver. I would love to have that wider stance and would happily flare my fenders to accommodate it!


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Bigger rear with lsd will only be noticeable in higher rpm and mpg loss. Its worth it in my opinion, stronger and quicker acceleration for about 2-4 mpg's loss...and two wheels spinning at the same time.

[Chad44]

My cruising speed (72mph) would go from 2500 rpm to 3000 rpm...That's 32mph redline in 1st gear and 56mph in 2nd... Oh man, I'd love to go that route but I wish I had thought of it when I had my subframe out 3 months ago... I'll keep my eyes open, since the m3 rear brakes would be nice with my soon to be 135 calipers up front...

[zhp43867]

My cruising speed (72mph) would go from 2500 rpm to 3000 rpm...That's 32mph redline in 1st gear and 56mph in 2nd... Oh man, I'd love to go that route but I wish I had thought of it when I had my subframe out 3 months ago... I'll keep my eyes open, since the m3 rear brakes would be nice with my soon to be 135 calipers up front...

I believe you can get 210 (E46 M3 gear standard, I think...) rebuilds/gear sets in 3.15, which I thought about. In the end, when I soon get an LSD I will probably just buy one from diffsonline or performance gearing, with a Z4 diff cover, polished gears and a 3.15, 3.23 (most likely this) or tops 3.38 ratio. Might skip the niceties depending on what the place I order from has to say about their respective benefits. If you plan on going F/I (stage 2+ from any company) I'd go the M3 diff/rebuild with a 3.15 route, because the axles will hold up better. For any reasonable amount of power (TS1, TT Stage 1, AA Stage 1) I don't think it'd make much of a difference.

[bcleaver]

I think you'll see more noticeable performance increases in track times from a proper suspension setup than from an LSD. I'd start with a decent coilover, camber plate and swaybar setup. This will allow you to play with the settings depending on the type of racing your doing and really adjust the car to your personal driving style. Also, just playing with the suspension components most likely won't put you into an SCCA class that you'll regret later.

I modded my first car without any real focus (swaybar here, lowering spring there, stage two tune, wider tires, etc.) only to learn that the combination of things I had done made it impossible for me to be competitive in my class without doing major overhauls to the car. I decided that being able to race competitively was more important and picked a class to race in and made modifications that were within the rules. Everyone is different, but if you can figure out what type of racing you want to do first, then mod second you might save yourself a lot of time and money.

Either way, good luck and have fun.

[murph]

One thing to think about, the LSD won't be in your budget if you want it to be useful for autocross. Also, you'd be surprised how well a good suspension setup reduces wheel spin. I've driven an E46 328 with ASTs and lost maybe .2 to wheel spin relative to my car, not nearly as bad as stock, and he was running a rear bar. (which you don't want to do if you don't have an LSD)

Also, the 3.07 is nearly perfect autocross gearing already, don't ruin that!

[derbo]

brakes, tires, and suspension are the biggest upgrades. Camber Plates + swaybars are also good additions to the car too