Lower Spring Perch

[johnnyrad]

Need some advice from the family.
Anybody have any idea who sells lower spring perches for OEM struts for Bilstein struts? I have looked eveywhere..Apparently I'm supposed to take apart my old one's to salvage those lower perches to put on my new Bilstein sport struts for my XI. And why the hell I would want to do that is beyond me. The Bilstein HD's already have them but the sport one's don't. I tried taking apart my old one's and totally failed. So I'm thinking why bother I could just build new ones...I'm pretty much annoyed as hell at this point.

[danewilson77]

When you say lower spring perches, you are referring to the fronts? Drawing/piece number would completely communicate, what you need.

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[GSEN820]

Johnny,

You must have read some of the forums and depending on where you bought your perches ( their website information). I am running Bimmian front lowering perches on the ZHP. While I was set on taking Struts apart to put the perch on, you will be able to put it on top too. By installing on the top (instead of stock top hat) you will see that the strut mount will sit in the perch.

The lowering perch will work great I think it was designed to sit on top instead of taking the strut apart.

[johnnyrad]

Your right Dane, I guess that would help huh? ..There is no part number I believe, not even on RealOEM

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i401/bslotterbach/95.png

...and I have this

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i401/bslotterbach/98602_x600.jpg

[danewilson77]

Ok. Thanks.

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[danewilson77]

I thought they just installed on top... With no need to take shock apart.

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[danewilson77]

You're looking for something like this?

http://www.bimmian.com/46/LSP/

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[GSEN820]

Correct Dane that is how I have mine installed

[danewilson77]

You're looking for something like this?

http://www.bimmian.com/46/LSP/

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Dis?

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[johnnyrad]

You're looking for something like this?

http://www.bimmian.com/46/LSP/

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No,they don't work for the XI models anyway according to the website. I'm just looking for the stock lower perch. My sales guy at Turner which is the place I got the struts from, told me I have to re-use the old ones from my old set. I just have to tap them off with a rubber mallet. But I can't get the old one's apart, the spring compressor I got sucks, I don't want to have to pay a shop to do it, so I figure I could just buy new ones. OEM one's that is. But no dice.

Edit: I have H&R springs for the Bilstein struts. They don't sit on top of the strut without that perch. I though they did at first also when I ordered them, then I realized I needed the one off the old strut. The guy at Turner said I had to re-use the old one.

[danewilson77]

Ok. Got it. Looking.

You may want to contact Bavaria auto recycling for something like that or maybe someone has an old stock setup?

Throwing this in here for the heck of it?

Rear:

http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/S_BUSH/RE-ASP.html

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[johnnyrad]

You may want to contact Bavaria auto recycling

I will have to look them up. Thanks for that.

Dane you see what I'm saying right? So damn simple..Why would Bilstein sell something like that? Their HD shocks have the perches, but not these sport one's? Why wouldn't Bilstein sell just the perches? Arghhhhh

[LivesNearCostco]

I know Koni sells the lower spring perches separately, but it's not a common order item and it took my Koni dealer (Ground Control) a few days to track them down and order them for me from Koni NA. Were $13 each. Bilstein must have them somewhere.

I removed my Sachs perches with a rubber mallet and re-used them on top of my Koni struts, which didn't come with lower spring perches because they are the GC version designed for coilover kits. I compressed the spring, removed the strut mount and spring, then a few whacks with the mallet. They were a tiny bit (~0.4mm) bigger than the Koni perches (which arrived later) but worked okay.

What happened when you tried to remove the old spring perches? Did you compress and remove the spring first? On Sachs and Koni struts for E46 they are just press-fit on, but I guess there are some strut brands where the perch is welded on grinding is needed to get them off.

[johnnyrad]

I know Koni sells the lower spring perches separately, but it's not a common order item and it took my Koni dealer (Ground Control) a few days to track them down and order them for me from Koni NA. Were $13 each. Bilstein must have them somewhere.

Good info. I will try to get more leads on this.


What happened when you tried to remove the old spring perches? Did you compress and remove the spring first?

I didn't even get that far. I took the strut off the car, hooked up the spring compressor (from Autozone) and got no further..The spring compressor kept moving around while I tightened it up and the top nut wouldn't budge even with air tools. I fiddled around for about 2 hrs, gave up, but the strut back on the car, then realized I shouldn't really have to do this. All I should really need to do is assemble the new strut with springs with all brand new parts, right? I'm really upset with TMS for not noting on their website for the suspension package I bought (which is XI specific) that I needed to specifically use the lower spring perches from the replaced struts.

I can always take the car to the indy and have them do it, but that's kinda admitting defeat, and opening up my mallet again which has nothing in there. Ha

[LivesNearCostco]

All the struts for the E46 are the same diameter (or close) at the bottom to fit in the knuckle. But they are not all the same diameter on top, as I discovered Koni is just slightly smaller than Sachs. If you think Bilstein strut top is same size as Sachs or Koni, just find some junkyard Sachs or Koni struts and knock the perches off those. Except you'd want to find some with the springs already removed.

You're still gonna need to compress the new springs to get them on the new struts, though lowering springs don't need to be compressed as much as stock springs. I find it hard to believe that your air tools couldn't loosen the top nut on the strut. Likely the whole strut shaft was rotating with the nut. Here are my tips for compressing the springs using the cheap ($16 normally, $10 with coupon) spring compressor from Harbor Freight.

Wear safety glasses once you start to compress spring. Mechanics gloves are a good idea too.
Place two compressors directly opposite each other, as close to 180° apart as possible. Otherwise spring leans to one side and compressors start sliding.
Use safety rings or clips on compressors to make sure spring doesn't slip out
You probably can't grab all the coils of the spring in the compressor because the spring perches don't leave enough room to fit the compressor at the ends of the spring. Try to compress 3 coil loops on each side, and since you're only grabbing 3 loops per side, you need to compress them a LOT, like 4 or 5 inches of compression or more.
Use air or electric impact wrench to tighten and loosen compressor bolts (HF cheap spring compressor requires 15/16" socket)
Lubricate threads of compressor rods with grease before compressing
Keep top of strut pointed away from your face and away from your car/kids/pets; if the compressor slips, or if you remove top nut without spring being fully compressed, the top nut, washer, and strut mount can go flying off at high speeds.
Compress spring enough that upper spring perch is moving around loosely before loosening top nut
Can use 13/16" spark plug wrench plus long allen socket/wrench to loosen top nut, at least on stock Sachs. That's what I did. However, this spark plug wrench wouldn't fit the new top nuts on my Koni struts--I had to use a 22mm box wrench for that one (but you can't use the box wrench with stock strut mounts unless it's an offset box wrench).
Don't keep using impact wrench if strut shaft is spinning... supposed to be bad for the seals inside the strut.
If using impact wrench to loosen top nut, may need to hold shaft of strut; Can use vise grip wrench with bit of old serpentine belt (to protect shaft from damage) to hold shaft still
Compress both sides fairly evenly. Say compress one side 10-15 turns, then compress other side 10-15 turns. If you compress one side too much, you risk having the compressor slip off the spring.


One possible tip is try to loosen (but do not remove) strut top nut while strut is in the car, before you compress the spring. Open hood, apply socket (with impact wrench), zap it for a brief few seconds then see if it loosened (count threads). This way the weight of the car on the spring and spring mount might help hold the strut shaft steady. Do NOT remove the top strut nut, but just loosen it slightly. If you can see it loosened, then remove strut from car, compress spring, and finish the job.

See this use manual for the HF compressor..
http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/3000-3999/3980.pdf

On page 4, see how the compressors are 180° opposed, and one is a coil higher up the strut than the other? With the stock BMW springs, same deal except you're never gonna capture 5 spring loops of the spring in there (at least not with that compressor). I think I only captured 3 loops on each side, which meant I had to compress those 3 loops a LOT.

[LivesNearCostco]

Were you using this one from AutoZone?
http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/grn/25550/image/4/

[johnnyrad]

That's them. They kept "walking" due to the slope on the coils. They would not stay opposite one another. I was told by a mechanic who works with my neighbor to never compress these more then 1/2" or so, or else "you'll kill yourself", direct quote. And it makes sense in theory, as why would you want to compress them so they become a loaded gun if you will. IDK, Friday was the first time I tried using these things, so what do I know. But, I'm now spooked.


You're still gonna need to compress the new springs to get them on the new struts

Yes, but for some reason I feel ok about that. I would rather start from an un-compressed state then trying to take apart one compressed.

Edit: I do appreciate your writeup tho, very helpful information I should add for the rookie installer.

[LivesNearCostco]

You have to compress them more than 1/2" or the strut nut/washer/hat will shoot off into the far recesses of your garage when you remove the top nut. Even if your compressor could capture all the loops on each side, I think you'd have to compress at least 2". Or did he meant don't compress one side more than 1/2" without also compressing the other side? That would make safety sense.

Not sure how to prevent spring walking with that compressor. The HF compressor is cheap made-in-China stuff but its cheap safety hooks to help pinch the spring to the upper hooks. Still the first time I used them, the spring wasn't compressed evenly so one compressor walked around to the side, which made the spring even more uneven, and it all started to look dangerous so I uncompressed both and started over. Maybe you could put a little RTV or some rubber bands where the compressor hooks rest on the spring coils, so they don't walk?

It's extremely unlikely you could kill yourself with these. Lose an eye or finger, dent your car door, or kill your pet Pomeranian (if it likes to help you work on your car), sure, but not really kill yourself. I've compressed coil springs 8 times between 2 cars (counting each side separately) and now it only scares me a little bit.

[johnnyrad]

or kill your pet Pomeranian (if it likes to help you work on your car)

Lmao..no my kitty is an indoor cat never goes outside even though my wife threatens to kick him out when he bites her! He never bites me because I saved him from the electric chair at the SPCA. :)

Yea, this was my first failure at a DIY so maybe I'm just peeved about it. I changed the drivers side inner and outer cv boots on the front axle last weekend which was total hell and destroyed my hands and exhausted me, so I thought how hard could this be after that..yea right!

Edit: Oh wait isn't a Pomeranian a dog???

[SC4ME]

^
Best tool I have bought recently is a good pair of mechanic's gloves! They are padded (protect knuckles/hands) and give good grip.

They also keep hands clean. I used to laugh at them, but boy am I a believer now.