Spark plugs - anti-seize or not?

[Tampa330i]

Doing plugs next week! I've seen a lot of write ups and videos and a mixed bag of some people swear by it others don't use it. Do you guys use anti-seize compound on the plugs when installing or go without?

[danewilson77]

I don't use any.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[kayger12]

I use copper anti-seize (Permatex). Aluminum heads are easily damaged if you end up with a seized plug. Worth the peace of mind for me.

If you do use it, just make sure to use it sparingly (you don't need much at all), and make sure you don't get it anywhere near the electrodes or low on the threads where it can get in the combustion chamber.

[Hermes]

Agree with Keith, I use it but very little. Supposedly it's not necessary but it's just habit at this point and gives me peace of mind

[WOLFN8TR]

I replaced the plugs in my wifes 4Runner a few years back. I almost couldn't get 2 of the 6 out. When the 2 finally broke loose the plugs squeaked all the way out. After that I always use some antisieze. Like Kayger12 said don't get it anywhere near the electrodes or low on the threads where it can get in the combustion chamber. I just replaced those plugs again the other day and they came right out nice and smooth! So I firmly believe in using it.

Just did the plugs on the ZHP and they got treated also.

[JohnnyGraphic]

Another vote for anti-seize.

[Hochspannung]

you technically shouldn't need to use it, the plugs are only supposed to be torqued to 18 lb/tq

[Hermes]

you technically shouldn't need to use it, the plugs are only supposed to be torqued to 18 lb/tq

IIRC they have changed spec to 22 now, but no comment on anti-seize

[kayger12]

you technically shouldn't need to use it, the plugs are only supposed to be torqued to 18 lb/tq

I don't think the torque is the issue, I think it's the repeated heating/cooling cycles. Mine were creaking and screaming the whole way out and they were the factory installed plugs.

[gr330zhp]

I put just a drop of oil on the threads, very small amount, enough to make it in a few threads and not enough to go to the electrode.

[zj96sc]

I always check the guidelines for whatever head type i'm putting plugs in, but for an aluminum head i'm definitely using (and have used) antifreeze, high quality permatex for me.

Like most of these folks, one sketchy experience pulling plugs out an aluminum head is enough.

[Tampa330i]

I'm pretty sure I've still got factory plugs, but I won't know for sure until I pop them out. If that's the case, not only is it long overdue for plugs, but I hope it corrects my occasional stall. I still can't figure out specifically what makes it stall, but maybe once every few months it will. Always happens when I'm rolling at basically idle, then I go to hit the gas and notice the car is no longer on. Always happens in Drive gear, in auto everyday mode. After one the other day, I noticed the rpms dipping from the normal 600 to about 500, and it felt like it was going to stall again, but it did not. Idle jumped back up, then dropped down, back up and stayed there. At 74k with factory plugs, would this be a possible reason for these random stalls? No codes have ever been thrown after it stalls. I'd record it if I could, but it really seems random and doesn't happen very often. I hope I don't have any trouble getting the plugs out.

[Hochspannung]

^^ yes, I had the same problem on my 00' 328ci. Rpm would dip at stop lights and occasionally stall when the engine wasn't up to operating temperature. I changed the plugs and the stalling stopped happening. The idle dip was better and less frequent. Other causes of the idle dip are a dirty ICV and/or a bad DISA.
There is a good DIY video on cleaning the ICV over on e46F from Solidjake.

[gr330zhp]

I'm pretty sure I've still got factory plugs, but I won't know for sure until I pop them out. If that's the case, not only is it long overdue for plugs, but I hope it corrects my occasional stall. I still can't figure out specifically what makes it stall, but maybe once every few months it will. Always happens when I'm rolling at basically idle, then I go to hit the gas and notice the car is no longer on. Always happens in Drive gear, in auto everyday mode. After one the other day, I noticed the rpms dipping from the normal 600 to about 500, and it felt like it was going to stall again, but it did not. Idle jumped back up, then dropped down, back up and stayed there. At 74k with factory plugs, would this be a possible reason for these random stalls? No codes have ever been thrown after it stalls. I'd record it if I could, but it really seems random and doesn't happen very often. I hope I don't have any trouble getting the plugs out.

OE plugs are rated at 60k. Just changed mine at 71k, it showed no sign at all of needing them. But it could depend on a lot of things with yours. I would defnetly change them and see if your valve cover gasket is leaking as well, maybe leaking into spark plug chamber

[zj96sc]

Are you on the original fuel filter?

[kayger12]

I still can't figure out specifically what makes it stall, but maybe once every few months it will. Always happens when I'm rolling at basically idle, then I go to hit the gas and notice the car is no longer on. Always happens in Drive gear, in auto everyday mode. After one the other day, I noticed the rpms dipping from the normal 600 to about 500, and it felt like it was going to stall again, but it did not. Idle jumped back up, then dropped down, back up and stayed there.

This is also symptomatic of bad vanos seals.

Had the same problem in my auto 325. Beisan seals solved the problem.

[zj96sc]

This is also symptomatic of bad vanos seals.

Had the same problem in my auto 325. Beisan seals solved the problem.

M52 or 54?

[kayger12]

M54

[LivesNearCostco]

Really? I thought they were rated for 100K. Now I don't feel bad about changing mine at 50K (that is PO changed them around 110K, I just changed them around 158K).

OE plugs are rated at 60k. Just changed mine at 71k, it showed no sign at all of needing them. But it could depend on a lot of things with yours. I would defnetly change them and see if your valve cover gasket is leaking as well, maybe leaking into spark plug chamber

[Crickett]

+1 for antiseize; just used some of the coppery looking stuff that's in the small packets at the checkout stand.

[Tampa330i]

Are you on the original fuel filter?

As far as I know, yes.

gr330zhp - Last I looked the oil was very minimal and had not gotten into any of the spark plug wells, yet. When I change the plugs, before I clean that up, I'll get a picture. It's almost definitely coming from the center valve cover bolt, closest to the front. At least, that's how it looks. There was such a small amount it could not have gone into a spark plug well as of the last time I looked.

I'll get the picture, clean it up, change the plugs, then let everyone know how it drives after that and if the oil comes back. It'll probably be a week or so of driving before I can get back in there to check on the oil.

[RVAzhp]

you technically shouldn't need to use it, the plugs are only supposed to be torqued to 18 lb/tq


IIRC they have changed spec to 22 now, but no comment on anti-seize

long story short- one shouldn't be tightening them to need anti-seize. i've never used any on any of my cars.

[kayger12]

long story short- one shouldn't be tightening them to need anti-seize. i've never used any on any of my cars.

Had little to do with tightening torque.

Has much more to do with heating/cooling cycles and the interaction of the metals.

I don't think anyone is saying you need anti-seize. Just saying that it makes removal easier and reduces risk.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[WOLFN8TR]

Had little to do with tightening torque.

Has much more to do with heating/cooling cycles and the interaction of the metals.

I don't think anyone is saying you need anti-seize. Just saying that it makes removal easier and reduces risk.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

Exactly....:thumbup

[Tampa330i]

Weather permitting, I'll get this done tomorrow. I just have one more question about plugs before I do - even though these are pre-gapped, should they be checked before installation? And if so, how are these checked? I've never had a spark plug with 4 prongs and my traditional teaching of how to gap a spark plug doesn't seem to fit how these plugs look. Is there a special tool for these type of plugs? Thanks for all the input everyone!

[kayger12]

Weather permitting, I'll get this done tomorrow. I just have one more question about plugs before I do - even though these are pre-gapped, should they be checked before installation? And if so, how are these checked? I've never had a spark plug with 4 prongs and my traditional teaching of how to gap a spark plug doesn't seem to fit how these plugs look. Is there a special tool for these type of plugs? Thanks for all the input everyone!

No need to gap those. They're good to go.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[MrMaico]

Weather permitting, I'll get this done tomorrow. I just have one more question about plugs before I do - even though these are pre-gapped, should they be checked before installation? And if so, how are these checked? I've never had a spark plug with 4 prongs and my traditional teaching of how to gap a spark plug doesn't seem to fit how these plugs look. Is there a special tool for these type of plugs? Thanks for all the input everyone!


No need to gap those. They're good to go.

+1 About all you can do is eyeball them to make sure none of the prongs look like they might have gotten bent somehow.

As far as anti-sieze I debated it but since my old ones came out fine and the NGK's said right on the box that none was needed I went without. Mine had about 75,000 on them and as far as I know they were the originals.

[Tampa330i]

Awesome, thanks! I just finished changing them out, along with the rubber washer for one of the valve cover bolts. I got some before pics of the leakage area, but I don't think it matters, I'm sure the vcg needs replacing anyway. I took out all the coils and lined them up, not good, oil on all of them but the one I just replaced - all across a line that seems to line right up with the gasket. Got a pic of that as well. The old spark plugs are all factory for sure, they're absolutely nasty looking. One thing I am concerned about... the torque wrench I have has such a large scale on it, I can't accurately measure the 18-20something ftlbs needed, 20 ftlbs is the lowest measure and it goes up to 140. I tightened them down maybe 1/4 turn past hand tight, but I don't have any other way to measure it currently. I think I know the answer, but should I open it back up and get it checked to make sure they're not too loose or tight? Am I going to blow up if I drive it and those numbers are slightly off? When I pulled the old plugs, they took A LOT of force at first, but I imagine they should not be tightened to that point, as they were also quite filthy and caked with god knows what. All of them had a little squeak on the way out. I'm going to take a short drive and see if there's any noticeable difference.

[Tampa330i]

Leak from valve cover bolt:
http://i44.tinypic.com/drfrc0.jpg

Coils with oil around centers (except the new one, 4th from bottom):
http://i44.tinypic.com/jl6hs5.jpg

First valve cover bolt & washer removed:
http://i41.tinypic.com/6ieiwn.jpg

Nasty old plugs:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2akmd1v.jpg

Close-up of nasty old plugs:
http://i41.tinypic.com/21lju48.jpg

[zj96sc]

I would've done all 15 grommets, but you can pick them all up if you're doing a VCG soon.