Another VANOS Questions....

[das boots]

I know that my VCG was in all probability replaced by PO. Do not know when. Even though the work was not documented. Even the rubber gasket that are reacheable and sticking out are it is still soft and pliable. And I can see some sort of sealant that was used towards the front end of the engine. Where the corner turns inward to the halfmoons.

With 110K+ on the clock, how could it be known if a VANOS was ever done? Would there be any visible signs of a VANOS repair?

After some communications with John (LiveNearCostco), that evidently, there are two types of VANOS repairs. The seals only or the whole enchilada repair....

Which proceedure is the one that gives everybody the headeache? I take it is the whole enchilada dinner plate #4 in Roberto's...

[danewilson77]

Naaa... We've tried to answer this before. Only BMW documented repair would tell?

Plugs, vcg, vanos gasket, etc... Don't give any tells, really.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[kayger12]

I would wait until you have vanos symptoms or need to replace your vcg again.

That being said, if it's 50k miles from now, and you're not having any vanos symptoms, I'd say you're good to go.

[edlvrt]

I think my car is starting to develop the rattle. Just to confirm, the rattle doesn't cause any damage, it just sounds bad, right? I'll have to plan a weekend to tackle this, but it may not be for a while if it is not a serious issue. Thanks

[nike001]

Do the VANOS anyways. Always good to be sure.

edlvrt, I haven't heard anything bad that comes from VANOS related problems. The rattle is only an annoyance, and the seals start to deteriorate. I haven't heard anything regarding to deteriorating seals causing any problems..

[das boots]

Would it be ridiculous if I was to puchase the kit or seals before they happen? Or just wait for symptoms?

[nike001]

Would it be ridiculous if I was to puchase the kit or seals before they happen? Or just wait for symptoms?

Do you have any rattle at around 2k RPM?

[das boots]

Negative. Quiet as the western front...knock-knock.

[LivesNearCostco]

Lawrence, just to clarify, for the E46 non-M, you can replace the seals or do the anti-rattle kit, or both on your existing VANOS. Or you can buy a reconditioned VANOS from Dr. VANOS that already has new seals and I think it has the anti-rattle parts too. The end result is the same, you just choose between saving money or saving time. I say if you have 100K miles and your VCG is not leaking, then somebody replaced the VCG before.

I think Rajaie said online there is some test the dealer can do to test VANOS responsiveness and it can help determine if your VANOS seals are bad.

[danewilson77]

You always do seals. Anti-Rattle kit if you have rattle.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[JohnnyGraphic]

In my case, I couldn't really tell that my VANOS seals have deteriorated. Since it happens over time, you couldn't really tell anyways. The only way was to pull the VANOS off and check the movement of the pistons-or with diagnostic equipment. Mine were very sloppy and moved very easily. I took a video of it, but for some reason, the file got corrupted. But, it just moved up and down. The rattle is obvious, either you have it or you don't. If you don't have it at 100k, I wouldn't sweat it. You may never get it. If you're going to do the VCG, you should do the VANOS seals as it is very easy to do. Since you're doing most of the job to replace the VCG, you might as well take a little more time to do the seals. If you take your time, be very careful with the pistons and clean everything thoroughly, you'll be golden. Follow the instructions on the website-they're great.

After I did mine, the VANOS pistons were very snug in the unit. I could definitely tell a difference in the low end response and the transition at around 3k-ish.

One thing-DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT bend the metal VANOS gasket like I did. You will get a leak on the front of the unit. In fact, I had replaced the VANOS gasket with a new one about 1k miles after I did the seals. When I replaced it, I checked the movement of the pistons. It was still VERY snug! I could hear the vacuum created by moving the pistons.

Also, I have heard that some of the aftermarket VCG can have small nicks in them, so inspect it carefully before putting it on, or go OEM. I would strongly suggest OEM for the VANOS gasket as it comes with a cardboard backing to prevent the bending of the gasket during shipping or being opened by an over-zealous owner... :(

You can tell if the VCG has been replaced if the sealant at the transitions to the half-moon areas is copper colored or appears 'messy'. When I did mine, the factory sealant was very neat and uniform looking. It is practically impossible to get it like that with your finger.

Johnny

[das boots]

This is the photo of the VCG and part of the half-moon. Me thinks that the VCG have already been replaced. The gaskets are soft as compared to the gaskets that I replaced with my 5'er's VCG at 80K mi. which were hard and crumbled like crackers...

Now, would PO's mechanic also have replaced any seals or do a VANOS repair when they did the VCG? That is the $$$ question....

[JohnnyGraphic]

This is the photo of the VCG and part of the half-moon. Me thinks that the VCG have already been replaced. The gaskets are soft as compared to the gaskets that I replaced with my 5'er's VCG at 80K mi. which were hard and crumbled like crackers...

Now, would PO's mechanic also have replaced any seals or do a VANOS repair when they did the VCG? That is the $$$ question....

That photo looks exactly like mine did before replacement. Mine was still fairly pliable at 92k. I'll see if I can dig up a picture of mine prior to.

The VANOS seals is a totally different repair/replacement item and I doubt any mechanic would just do it unless specifically requested to do so. Plus, it would probably cost a bit of money due to the time it takes to actually do the repair.

It is a fairly easy DIY though. Maybe 2-3 out of 5?

Johnny

[JohnnyGraphic]

Here, you can see the little glob of sealant that BMW uses. Yours looks exactly like mine. Right hand side of the valve cover, right where the VANOS attaches to the front of the engine (below the socket wrench).

That said, unless you have a leak, you may not need to replace it just yet, especially since it still feels pliable and soft. You could probably tackle the VCG and the VANOS all at the same time. No need to rush into it from what I understand-since you mentioned you don't have a leak. But, I wouldn't put it off terribly too long. My VCG was still soft and pliable when I removed it, but it was leaking.

3265

[das boots]

It surely looks like it.....So, it also could be possible that PO had the VCG done with the delaer? Or if the VCG have not been done, then I am sitting on a ticking time bomb.....Wonder if any dealer is willing to do a printout of all of the things that was done to the car by any authorized dealer?

[JohnnyGraphic]

It surely looks like it.....So, it also could be possible that PO had the VCG done with the delaer? Or if the VCG have not been done, then I am sitting on a ticking time bomb.....Wonder if any dealer is willing to do a printout of all of the things that was done to the car by any authorized dealer?

Someone here with more knowledge may know more, but from what I understand, all the dealer needs is your key and it will pull up all of the history on that car done at the dealers, but not anybody else (independents etc).

I doubt it was done at the dealer too. I would say your VCG is still factory. The bolts look very clean. If they've been touched by human hands, there would be some signs of it on the edges.

An original VCG is not a ticking time bomb (like having the original cooling system). The only thing that will happen is an oil leak. Since you sound pretty concerned about it, set aside a Saturday after you've done your research and bought all the parts and go to it.

Johnny

[das boots]

Concerned? Yes. Stressed out? No. I have already done a VCG on an '03 E39. So, I know what are the proceedure. But did not do a VANOS seal replacement to the E39 since it did not have any symptoms. However, if I am to do a VCG on this ZHP, I will in all probability do a VANOS seal & gasket replacement. Now, what is this anti-rattle thing that needs to be done? I read through the DIY from Beisan, there was no mention of rattle. Anybody, please explain.....BTW, the more I read the DIY, the more I am getting comfortable on getting this done as a DIY.

[danewilson77]

Seperate procedure that has you Seperate the pistons and put in undersized spacers, allowing for less axial/radial play.


http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures/double_vanos_rattle_procedure.htm

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[nike001]

Seperate procedure that has you Seperate the pistons and put in undersized spacers, allowing for less axial/radial play.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

Bingo. This play is what causes the rattle.

[das boots]

Aha...that is the one. Are the undersized spacers are those rings that come with the kit?

[JohnnyGraphic]

Like I said, there won't be any 'symptoms', just a slow degradation of performance over time. If you drive a fresh ZHP and then an old one, you will notice a difference in low end response and the transition to the different cam timing wont be as smooth. At your mileage, I would bet that your seals are pretty bad. Mine were at 92k.

When you do your VCG, spend the extra $65 for the seals and do it. If you don't have a rattle, it may never happen. But, you could always do both just to be sure.

Johnny

[Crickett]

I'll throw in my $0.02 having just re-done my VANOS seals: I'd assume, like most others, that your VCG is original, as are your VANOS seals. The portions of my VCG at 92k that I could touch from the outside were fairly soft & pliant, but the parts on the inside of the valve cover were brittle as hell, especially the spark plug well gaskets. I didn't have any noticeable VANOS rattle, but bought the anti-rattle kit just in case. Beisan's walkthrough describes how to check your VANOS pistons for the axial play that the anti-rattle kit fixes; mine weren't audible, but had a decent bit of play. As for the VANOS seals, it's pretty much guaranteed that yours are plasticized, shrunken, & brittle.

In short, a VANOS seals, anti-rattle, & VCG job isn't a hard DIY, & certainly isn't one that's vital if you aren't experiencing any symptoms.

[kayger12]

Like I said, there won't be any 'symptoms', just a slow degradation of performance over time.

... unless they get really bad. Once they get really bad, you can get definite symptoms.

Surging at 3k is one that I had very noticeably on my 325.

My 325 would also stall with the AC on when starting from a stop. This was the symptom that led me to research causes... which is when I first learned what a vanos was and what my problem was.

That was at about 100k.

To your point, though, for most people who have vanos seals that are somewhere between new and terrible, there will not likely be any noticeable symptoms.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[danewilson77]

Aha...that is the one. Are the undersized spacers are those rings that come with the kit?

Yes. They are the anti-rattle kit. 2 rings. Double vanos.

[das boots]

Bravo Zulu to all. Now, I will have to keep my eyes and ears opened to any symptoms that you all specified. Oil leaks from VCG is very obvious. VANOS is what I will be pinging on....as DW's submariners would say..."One ping only."

[danewilson77]

Bravo Zulu to all. Now, I will have to keep my eyes and ears opened to any symptoms that you all specified. Oil leaks from VCG is very obvious. VANOS is what I will be pinging on....as DW's submariners would say..."One ping only."

Yup....

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Funny/DasBoat.jpg

For you my friend.

[das boots]

Great find....That's where I got my screen name. Although I was referring to Capt. Marko Ramius from Red Oktober.

[danewilson77]

Great find....That's where I got my screen name. Although I was referring to Capt. Marko Ramius from Red Oktober.

Sweet.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[WOLFN8TR]

I would definitely do the Vanos anti rattle kit and seals when doing the VCG. When I hit 100K my VCG started leaking so I decided to do the plugs, gasket and the Vanos. You're half way there anyway when doing the VCG and plugs. I had the surge at 3,000 rpm's but NO rattle, the seals were very hard. For the money doing both is a no brainer. After doing the Vanos my ZHP runs like new!

FYI: When torquing the Vanos bolt that is reverse threads on the pistons make sure your torque wrench works on reverse threads, mine didn't. I almost snapped that bolt off.

[das boots]

Do you feel the surge at 3K when traveling at freeway speeds? Meaning when at 3K, there will be a RPM surge that jumps and settles down? Just needing to keep my eye on symptoms....I need to read again the VANOS DIY concerning the torque values of the bolts. I seem to not seeing that phase of torquing the bolts.

[WOLFN8TR]

I mainly felt it at highway speeds. Slightly accelerating or crusing it was noticeable. There is a good DIY on the Vanos rebuild on Besian's website. It's really not hard just time consuming the first time around. If I had to do it again I could do it in approx 2 hours.

VANOS DIY (http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures/vanos_procedure.htm)

[das boots]

Thanks. That's what I was asking...now, I know what to look for....

[das boots]

A follow-up. I tried to make 3K rpms on freeways. At 6th gear, I will have to travel at approx. 85 mph or more. Very difficult to get past 80 mph on city freeways especially during workdays.

Also swung by again the local dealer to do a printout of my Warranty Vehicle Inquiry. Paid special attention to the Repair History. No VANOS or VCG was ever done. Indies not included in their system.

What is the SIB #12-06-06 Recall 06E-A01 N52 Repgm OBD Diagnostic on N52?

I was also told that I have an open campaign to bring in my ZHP for the Tail Light Ground repair.

Edit: Evidently, I could not post attachment a pdf file.

[danewilson77]

A follow-up. I tried to make 3K rpms on freeways. At 6th gear, I will have to travel at approx. 85 mph or more. Very difficult to get past 80 mph on city freeways especially during workdays.

Also swung by again the local dealer to do a printout of my Warranty Vehicle Inquiry. Paid special attention to the Repair History. No VANOS or VCG was ever done. Indies not included in their system.

What is the SIB #12-06-06 Recall 06E-A01 N52 Repgm OBD Diagnostic on N52?

I was also told that I have an open campaign to bring in my ZHP for the Tail Light Ground repair.

Edit: Evidently, I could not post attachment a pdf file.

Can't just downshift to 5th?

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[JohnnyGraphic]

A follow-up. I tried to make 3K rpms on freeways. At 6th gear, I will have to travel at approx. 85 mph or more. Very difficult to get past 80 mph on city freeways especially during workdays.

Also swung by again the local dealer to do a printout of my Warranty Vehicle Inquiry. Paid special attention to the Repair History. No VANOS or VCG was ever done. Indies not included in their system.

What is the SIB #12-06-06 Recall 06E-A01 N52 Repgm OBD Diagnostic on N52?

I was also told that I have an open campaign to bring in my ZHP for the Tail Light Ground repair.

Edit: Evidently, I could not post attachment a pdf file.

If the N52 referenced in your SIB is the engine code (which I think it is), it would be for E90's. We have the M54 engine.

Johnny

[LivesNearCostco]

I just got to meet Das Boots! At the local CCA chapter meeting.

[das boots]

Finally meet LivesNearCostco. Finally explained on how VANOS works and its purpose.

Wasn't there something on a thread concerning a reprogramming of the OBD due to fluctuation or stalling on 2nd & 3rd gears at 4K rpms?

[JohnnyGraphic]

Finally meet LivesNearCostco. Finally explained on how VANOS works and its purpose.

Wasn't there something on a thread concerning a reprogramming of the OBD due to fluctuation or stalling on 2nd & 3rd gears at 4K rpms?

You may be thinking of the DISA valve??? I know there's a SIB somewhere on that. I had to have my DME sent back to New Jersey for reprogramming. They are somewhat related in what they do, but the problems are not. One is software related and the other is bad o-rings.

[das boots]

I tried to inquire some more on that SIB...but nobody knew what those were...but of course, most of the guys upfront were the gophers. They did not want to bother the service manager or reps.....

[das boots]

I would like to continue tgis thread sort of due to suspected VANOS symptom. No, this is not a ZHP, but my E39 '03 530i. I thought I had VANOS symptoms of underpower and surging after reading through all other VANOS threads. I took the the 5'er this morning to BMW San Diego to have it repaired since it is still under warranty until Dec 2012...Woo Hoo! Got a E90 loaner. Woo Hoo again!

A little while ago, Service Manager called to report on what excatly are the propblem. Their tech reported from the computer readout of the SES, that there is no VANOS problem. However....I have other problems not VANOS related. I will stop right here concerning the other 5'ers problem.

I learned something new on VANOS from their tech. However I did not ask what is SES? Anybody? Evidently, not all VANOS' awere made the same. For a 5'er with a 3.0 engine, even though technically, it is a M54, on a 5'er, they were made differently...the engine & VANOS, I mean. The VANOS on a 5er is also hooked up electronically with the OBC and will notify by SES when the VANOS needs repair.

So, all of the symptoms I thought I had, was evidently my imagination. That's all there is for now...Thanks for listening.

[gr330zhp]

I would like to continue tgis thread sort of due to suspected VANOS symptom. No, this is not a ZHP, but my E39 '03 530i. I thought I had VANOS symptoms of underpower and surging after reading through all other VANOS threads. I took the the 5'er this morning to BMW San Diego to have it repaired since it is still under warranty until Dec 2012...Woo Hoo! Got a E90 loaner. Woo Hoo again!

A little while ago, Service Manager called to report on what excatly are the propblem. Their tech reported from the computer readout of the SES, that there is no VANOS problem. However....I have other problems not VANOS related. I will stop right here concerning the other 5'ers problem.

I learned something new on VANOS from their tech. However I did not ask what is SES? Anybody? Evidently, not all VANOS' awere made the same. For a 5'er with a 3.0 engine, even though technically, it is a M54, on a 5'er, they were made differently...the engine & VANOS, I mean. The VANOS on a 5er is also hooked up electronically with the OBC and will notify by SES when the VANOS needs repair.

So, all of the symptoms I thought I had, was evidently my imagination. That's all there is for now...Thanks for listening.

My question, how in the world do you still have factory warranty on an E39??? :jealous :)

[das boots]

PFM. Pure Fing Magic. Love my warranty. No kidding, but it's a long story. LOL.

[Crickett]

Their tech reported from the computer readout of the SES, that there is no VANOS problem. [ . . . ] The VANOS on a 5er is also hooked up electronically with the OBC and will notify by SES when the VANOS needs repair.

So, all of the symptoms I thought I had, was evidently my imagination. That's all there is for now...Thanks for listening.

Our M54's VANOS is also electronically monitored & can be computer tested, but the threshold (for lack of a better term) for when the computer & OBC report a problem is excessively high. I ran the computer (DIS) VANOS test on my ZHP & it reported no problems, but I found my OE seals to be completely shrunken, brittle, & plasticized, as expected, when I did the Beisan seals kit.

So I don't really trust the computer diagnostics to accurately report VANOS issues other than a nearly complete VANOS failure.

[gammagoblin]

Not to be a thread hijack, but...

Just started the Vanos Job From Hell(tm) yesterday. Long story short. Needed VCG (leaking) and had marble rattle. Got all my stuff together, new vcg, plugs, rebuilt vanos, etc. Everything going smooth until I start to take valve cover off. First of all, WHOSE BRIGHT IDEA WAS IT TO USE A PLASTIC VC! Omg... my car has 58k on it, and the VCG was the same consistency of the valve cover it was so hard. Brittle plastic, not rubbery at all. So basically as I peel the cover off the thing is shattering as it goes. Then I'm done picking pieces out, and scraping little bits of hard plastic from the cyl head with a putty knife, and trying to be real f'ing sure no plastic bits are in the head anywhere.

Discover part of the vcg actually fused to the valve cover. Broke a piece of it off with it. Now I get to get a new valve cover! I was going to go swap the vanos anyway, and just before removing it I dropped the reverse thread torx screw in the car somewhere, because I am a dumbass. Dunno where it fell, not in a belt or anywhere critical, but damn if I could not find the thing. I've had smoother jobs... at least I live fairly close to ticher bmw!

[das boots]

Our M54's VANOS is also electronically monitored & can be computer tested, but the threshold (for lack of a better term) for when the computer & OBC report a problem is excessively high. I ran the computer (DIS) VANOS test on my ZHP & it reported no problems, but I found my OE seals to be completely shrunken, brittle, & plasticized, as expected, when I did the Beisan seals kit.

So I don't really trust the computer diagnostics to accurately report VANOS issues other than a nearly complete VANOS failure.

I dunno what else how to explain to the service manager that the computer does not read all of the problems on what the VANOS does....I think that is how the dealers bmw techs determine if a component is bad by reading the diagnostic readout thresholds....aside from seeing a component in front of them that is totally destroyed before they will take action.

[Crickett]

I dunno what else how to explain to the service manager that the computer does not read all of the problems on what the VANOS does....I think that is how the dealers bmw techs determine if a component is bad by reading the diagnostic readout thresholds....aside from seeing a component in front of them that is totally destroyed before they will take action.

Unfortunately that seems to be the case at most dealerships; unless you find that one advisor or tech who's an enthusiast & recognizes you as someone who knows what he's talking about, they'll just do what the computer tells them.

[das boots]

I went back to the dealer to plead my case for a VANOS repair. Service advisor and tech did have a talk. Evidently, again, BMW have a preset steps they take to make sure that the VANOS needs replacement. And they did not find anything to conclude that a repair is required. However, one of the steps require my clutch to be in good condition to test for a full power run. Unfortunately, they did mention that I need a clutch job. They will be charging me $1350+. So, I said forget it. I will have my clutch done by my indie and then I will return to do fulfill one of their steps.

I still think dealers are full of BS when it comes to dealing with warranty. Well, some dealers. They do not want to do the extra step. I don't think it is laziness. They get paid eitherway. Me thinks they just don't want to deal with something complicated (for them) since they go by volume. The more they do repairs on more cars the more $$ they get. Now, if they get stuck on one car, that's less $$$.....correct me if I'm wrong here.

[kayger12]

The only way I got mine replaced was because of the rattle.

And shortly thereafter, I had the rattle back again. :facepalm

[JohnnyGraphic]

Not to be a thread hijack, but...

Just started the Vanos Job From Hell(tm) yesterday. Long story short. Needed VCG (leaking) and had marble rattle. Got all my stuff together, new vcg, plugs, rebuilt vanos, etc. Everything going smooth until I start to take valve cover off. First of all, WHOSE BRIGHT IDEA WAS IT TO USE A PLASTIC VC! Omg... my car has 58k on it, and the VCG was the same consistency of the valve cover it was so hard. Brittle plastic, not rubbery at all. So basically as I peel the cover off the thing is shattering as it goes. Then I'm done picking pieces out, and scraping little bits of hard plastic from the cyl head with a putty knife, and trying to be real f'ing sure no plastic bits are in the head anywhere.

Discover part of the vcg actually fused to the valve cover. Broke a piece of it off with it. Now I get to get a new valve cover! I was going to go swap the vanos anyway, and just before removing it I dropped the reverse thread torx screw in the car somewhere, because I am a dumbass. Dunno where it fell, not in a belt or anywhere critical, but damn if I could not find the thing. I've had smoother jobs... at least I live fairly close to ticher bmw!

That sucks dude! Sorry to hear you had so many problems. With such low mileage, I wouldn't think that your VCG would have turned so brittle. At 90k, mine was still quite pliable. Leaky, but pliable.

As for the VANOS bolts, I was super careful and took my time. One thing that I did that wasn't in the instructions was to cover the front of the engine under the VANOS with a plastic bag/paper towels so that in case anything DID drop, it would drop onto the paper and not into the underside of the engine compartment. I don't recall if I dropped anything during that part of the repair, but it was sure good insurance. I worked very slowly and deliberately during this part of the repair.

I'll see if I can scrounge up a picture of what I did and post it here.

Johnny

Here it is-You can see a plastic sheet underneath (it was a Kirkland paper towel roll wrapper for those of you who must know!) and the blue shop towels on top. I did that both when I removed the VANOS and also when I put it back on the engine.
3330

[WOLFN8TR]

Vanos Surgery! Nice and Easy...

[das boots]

That sucks dude! Sorry to hear you had so many problems. With such low mileage, I wouldn't think that your VCG would have turned so brittle. At 90k, mine was still quite pliable. Leaky, but pliable.

As for the VANOS bolts, I was super careful and took my time. One thing that I did that wasn't in the instructions was to cover the front of the engine under the VANOS with a plastic bag/paper towels so that in case anything DID drop, it would drop onto the paper and not into the underside of the engine compartment. I don't recall if I dropped anything during that part of the repair, but it was sure good insurance. I worked very slowly and deliberately during this part of the repair.

I'll see if I can scrounge up a picture of what I did and post it here.

Johnny

Here it is-You can see a plastic sheet underneath (it was a Kirkland paper towel roll wrapper for those of you who must know!) and the blue shop towels on top. I did that both when I removed the VANOS and also when I put it back on the engine.
3330

Great idea. That VANOS look mighty familiar when I did the VCG on the 5er. I am now regretting that I did a VCG. I should have brought it to the dealer since it was under warranty. Too late now. But as we look at the VANOS open like that, would there be anything to look at and determine if it was going bad???? Like leaking oil from somewhere??? or tightness of hex nuts????

[LivesNearCostco]

According to Rajaie of Beisan Systems, if your car is under warranty and you convince the dealer that your VANOS pistons are not properly motivated when the DME talks to them, they will replace it with a new VANOS that has the same Buna rubber O-rings on the pistons, and these will fail again in 20-30,000 miles. You can read his basic story here:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=524336

I don't think you can tell from looking at it while it's mounted on the head because when the piston O-ring sare bad the oil is leaking within the VANOS unit. No oil is lost, no oil leaks out into the engine bay (unless your valve cover gasket is far gone). Once you take the VANOS off you can check how easily the pistons slide within the cylinders. You could email Rajaie and ask him if it can be checked while still bolted to the head. He also says the GT1 VANOS test often passes the VANOS as "OK" even with failed O-rings, but if you watch the screen during the test you will see that the VANOS response is sluggish, and once you replace the O-rings the same GT1 test shows the response time is much faster.

On the warranty coverage, I suspect some warranty repairs take a lot more paperwork and testing to get covered by BMW NA than others, especially if there is no error code or no obvious stalling or big hesitation. Obviously if they fix your tail light grounds or any other recall, BMW NA reimburses them easily. But to get a VANOS replaced (or DME reprogrammed in New Jersey) under warranty, the dealer service advisor is probably required to go through steps A/B/C to get warranty coverage. I doubt BMW NA pays the dealer for the troubleshooting time, even if they do pay for the actual repair parts and labor once it's approved. This process reduces their warranty costs and gives the dealership a chance to sell you more parts and services (like a clutch job) along the way.

[JohnnyGraphic]

Totally agree with the above. The dealership in many cases will do little to have something covered under warranty. They must go thru very specific steps to have some abnormal items reimbursed. I know that the regional rep will have to go to the dealership in many instances in order to proceed. By this time, they've had your car for x number of days and eaten into your days as well.

You are much better off, on the long haul, to do the Beisan systems replacement with better o-rings. There probably isn't any other way to 'test' for it aside from pulling the VANOS off the car and watching the pistons flop around in the cylinders. When the unit is on the engine, the pistons are bolted to the front of the cams, so I doubt there is any way to move them.

Johnny

Johnny

[das boots]

For now, I will continue to monitor the E39 until it gives me the real symptoms instead of the imaginary symptoms. The bad side is, this is my wife's DD. And I doubt she would know what are the symptoms and what to look for. And I use the 5er only on weekends. But now, I have to take care of the slipping clutch first. A slipping clutch might be giving out the wrong symptoms since there are not enough power curve to get the VANOS to its working potential....if that is the proper terminology.

I will just see when the time comes if the VANOS really goes to take it back to the dealer or use the Beisan system depending on the timing. I would like make use as much as possible the warranty since it is there until the end of this year even for other things that comes up. I still get a loaner everytime.

[das boots]

Well, this morning, was kinda cool & blistery. When I started the ZHP and let it idle, the rpm started at 800 then went down to 7 and up to 8 again. Then a quick fluctuation down to 600 and then up to 800 and then to 700. This was happening for a minute or two And finally settled down to 600 rpm before I left the driveway. Does this signify anything???? Is this normal??? I dunno if I am getting paranoid after reading Rajaie's description.......

[zj96sc]

My valve cover and spark plug gaskets were as brittle as potato chips. Luckily the VCG came off with the cover in one piece, but I played pickup sticks with the shards of my plug gaskets.

das boots:
I would contend that you won't really know if your VANOS seals are bad, unless you drive a freshly Beisan'ed car back to back. The loss is surely so gradual that you won't notice all of a sudden one day.

I can tell you my pistons with 98k OEM o-rings moved very easily in their bores and tightened up considerably with the new o-rings. Old o-rings were hard as a rock. I would bet if you're anywhere over 20k your seals are indeed bad.

If the BUNA rings fail in 20k I see almost no point in having BMW do anything, unless you can convince them to spend their time putting the Beisan (or Dr. VANOS) parts in for you. You win that battle and I'll paypal you a cookie.

At $60 and an afternoon for your E39 and $120 and slightly longer afternoon for the ZHP.......just do the Beisan kit(s). What's the harm?

[das boots]

Me thinks, I need to purchase the VCG and bushings for the ZHP ready and have them handy. Rubber gaskets don't deteriorate inside the garage right? As long as the temp stays cool?

[zj96sc]

I mean, they're sitting on a shelf wherever you're buying them from so I wouldn't sweat that part of it. I think it is the engine heat (200F+) that gets to them.

I'm pretty disappointed in the lack of engineering foresight applied to some of the components on these cars - vanos, VCG, burned bowls....all problems because they chose materials that cannot withstand normal operating temps. It's not like the proper materials cost substantially more either.

[das boots]

Getting my shopping list together....but I agree on your statement on getting better materials that can withstand temperature variations....

[das boots]

I was ordering the seals then there was another part for some rattle kit. I went through Beisans, I did not come upon this rattle washers as part of the procedure to be replaced. Could anybody point it out? BTW, I also did order the rattle kit. Thanks.

P.S. LivesNearCostco...standby for a VANOS job assist.

[JohnnyGraphic]

I was ordering the seals then there was another part for some rattle kit. I went through Beisans, I did not come upon this rattle washers as part of the procedure to be replaced. Could anybody point it out? BTW, I also did order the rattle kit. Thanks.

P.S. LivesNearCostco...standby for a VANOS job assist.

The rattle kit is something different, but 'related'. It is a rattle that comes from some movement w/in the VANOS unit. If you don't have the rattle, I wouldn't bother, especially at your mileage. But, I guess it never hurts to upgrade a part that may at one point cause some trouble. Hunt around on the beisian website for the install and I'm sure there are plenty of DIY's on here and other BMW sites for this. Some have had very good success with the kit. I opted to skip this as I don't have a rattle.

Johnny

[danewilson77]

I was ordering the seals then there was another part for some rattle kit. I went through Beisans, I did not come upon this rattle washers as part of the procedure to be replaced. Could anybody point it out? BTW, I also did order the rattle kit. Thanks.

P.S. LivesNearCostco...standby for a VANOS job assist.

http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures/double_vanos_rattle_procedure.htm

[WOLFN8TR]

I would do the Anti Rattle kit. You will have it apart anyway and it's not that much money.

Just Do It...

[das boots]

http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures/double_vanos_rattle_procedure.htm

That's that one...Thanks.


I would do the Anti Rattle kit. You will have it apart anyway and it's not that much money.

Just Do It...

Good thing I added this as part of my order.

[danewilson77]

db.... Make sure you read procedure and you have tools for rattle kit install.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[das boots]

Agreed.

[WOLFN8TR]

When you get to this step do not snap that bolt like I almost did. It's a left hand threaded bolt and my torque wrench did not work when trying to torque it to spec.

Install piston onto engine intake splined shaft with piston mounting bolt; left hand thread (T30 torx bit socket 1/4” / 1/4” ratchet & extension).
Lightly tighten.

[BRGcoopahS]

My fathers ZHP sort of has a "boost" at higher rpm when giving it plenty of throttle. Its like "the vtec just kicked in". I guess this isnt normal?

[elric]

I justed replaced my VANOS seals on Saturday. Not a difficult DIY, just worked slow and steady. Actually had a tech from the local dealership watch, as he had never done a seal replacement on a VANOS. It restored a LOT of low-end response. Have a another ZHP owner that has about the same mileage, not done the seals .... we plan to dyno them both in about 2 weeks. Then I feel sure we will be replacing his seals also.

:roundel

[kayger12]

My fathers ZHP sort of has a "boost" at higher rpm when giving it plenty of throttle. Its like "the vtec just kicked in". I guess this isnt normal?

Not normal. Sounds exactly like what happens when the vanos is shot.

[das boots]

When you get to this step do not snap that bolt like I almost did. It's a left hand threaded bolt and my torque wrench did not work when trying to torque it to spec.

Install piston onto engine intake splined shaft with piston mounting bolt; left hand thread (T30 torx bit socket 1/4” / 1/4” ratchet & extension).
Lightly tighten.

Just printed the rattle procedure. Compiled the seals and rattle procedures into one package as reference. Some more reading materials.

[LivesNearCostco]

So when are you thinking of doing the VANOS? I have a 1/4" torque wrench that I used for mine. You said you already have a bench vise and electric impact wrench for the anti-rattle kit, right?

I also have a spare VCG that's been sitting around unused for a year, because when I did my VANOS I re-used the existing one (which only had 3,000 miles on it at the time). Also have two spare VANOS piston bolts. But I don't have a spare VANOS gasket nor do I have the 15 little grommets for the VC bolts.

[das boots]

I have a 3/8" Dewalt torque wrench & a bench vise. VCG are now here. Waiting for the Beisan seals & rattle kit and some other misc. parts.. Bring what you got and we can go from there. Oh yes....waiting for the weather to cooperate. Did you go with the guys to Chucwalla??? It rained....dunno if they cancelled.

[LivesNearCostco]

I didn't go to Chuckwalla but I've done two track days in the rain. They never cancel for rain unless it's so bad (or so foggy) you can't see the corner workers. Maybe they would cancel for snow. Try to let me know as far in advance as possible when you want to do this, as my family has been back in town since March 1 so my evenings and weekends aren't as free.

[das boots]

I will let you know way ahead of time...believe me. BTW, Chuckwalla was cancelled. Just talked to Andre on my way home. On Sat. they had sand storm. On Sunday, some rain and some more sand storm. Made driving dangerous....similar to rain. Visibility. Sand is more dangerous.....everything was flying all over.....

[LivesNearCostco]

Whoa, that blows my mind. I've had sessions start late due to cars being towed, sessions cut short due to rain, and a DE day start delayed by almost 2 hours due to fog. But then I didn't count on wind + rain + sand. Guess I'm glad I didn't sign up.