Speaker and Subwoofer Options for ZHP

[UdubBadger]

I know we've probably had some talk before I was a member but wanted to get some opinions on the stereo side of the ZHP.

I am by no means an audiophile, however being a musician, a very big music lover and just an all around picky ass guy, I want a good sounding stereo that makes my music sound good.

I'm not anyone who's gonna go ripping out everything and doing some $3000 custom install job with $700 a set component speakers and all of that. I just want some all around good sounding stuff in my car because I'm in it a lot.

So here are some Q's

I know BSW is good and makes a nice replacement kit for the speakers, but are there other options people have used? I have some MBQuart components coming out of my car right now that SHOULD fit the ZHP (1" tweeter, 4" drivers and a pair of extra 5.5" drivers that I tried to use but didn't fit in my 1er). I liked how they sounded so wouldn't mind using them again (plus free is always good). I could easily grab a 2nd set of the 1" tweeters for the rear.

What is the exact speaker set up on this car... trying to find info on all stuff included (sizes) and can't seem to find exact locations either.

In regards to Subs, anyone have a custom molded one in the corner of their trunk?
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=427231&d=1322702545

NOTE: I see GO HORNS! was the buyer for that one on e46fanatics

Better to do the sub thing or just really work on the interior speakers?
I am just worried there isn't much bass and while I don't do the night at the roxbury type of stuff... I like full rich bass as much as the next fella.


I dunno what else but... lets discuss.

[Hermes]

IIRC they are either 6 1/2 or 3/4, shallow fit. Not sure about the mid and highs

[zj96sc]

I used to be pretty into car audio.

I've never gotten up the gumption to mess with the ZHP. BMW stereos are pretty locked up and kind of a pain in the ass to modify because of the speaker count and factory amp.

You either have to tear everything out and start from scratch, but doing this you usually wind up losing some speakers, or do line level inputs to the factory amp which tends to be less than ideal. It is also a tall order to do it cleanly and professionally without it looking all F&Fed out.

For sub addition, you either have to run a new headunit for sub pre-outs or do line level taps from the factory amp input to your sub amp, or tap off the amplified output to a line level converter to your sub amp input. But- if you swap a new head unit for the sub pre-outs you're then feeding amplified signal to the stock amp and your sound quality goes to shit.

Like I said, never clean or easy on a BMW.

I'd probably just find speaker sizes that match whats in the car from the factory and just step up the speaker quality. The head unit and amp themselves are still pretty quality pieces.

I've built a custom fiberglass trunk sub box, did it for my 2nd E36 M. They're a ton of work but end up looking great and taking up minimal space. The trunk in that E36 was so well insulated I had to fold the seat down when I really wanted "bass." For that car I ran an alpine head unit feeding the stock amp for highs and a sub pre-out fed to the sub amp.

My F-250 I'm running a rarer old high end sony (scratch and dent from crutchfield, of all places, to replace a nice alpine that got stolen. i was in college and dead broke at the time but found this gem....has 24bit burr brown DACs, 3x 4V pre-outs, pretty unusual deck.) feeding an old autotek 900.4. Front channels feed ~110 watts to a set of 6.5 CDT components in the front doors with tweeters mounted in custom built sail panels, rear channels are bridged and wired down to 2ohm to feed ~400watts to an elemental designs 11o.v2. Rear door speakers are factory and fed with the rear channels of the headunit's amp.

Anyway, I've been through this several times on several cars so I may be able to offer some help. Just ask away.

[Hermes]

Why not just upgrade the 6 lows to better quality speakers and get rid of the paper cone HK's

EDIT: locations are lows in bottom part of front door and rear deck, mid and high together near handle in front, not sure about location in rear of 4dr but my coupe has it built into the rear card, 2 more lows in the "sub box"

[zj96sc]

This is from Paul W @ BSW in a post on E46F:


6.25" Midbass
HK : 3 ohms
Standard : 2 ohms

2.5" Midrange
HK: 4 ohms
Standard : 8 ohms

.75" Tweeter
Hk : 3 ohm
Standard : 8 ohm

And the "subs" are apparently 6x9s.

[UdubBadger]

hmmmm

[UdubBadger]

This is from Paul W @ BSW in a post on E46F:



And the "subs" are apparently 6x9s.

ok so basically what I have wont work anyway.

Maybe I will see if I can snag a BSW kit on the cheap in that case.

[Hermes]

Ahhh... Forgot about that. Forgot to take a pic before I added the polyester but here is the inside of the sub box
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/rear%20deck/P1000413.jpg


Here are the ones in the rear deck
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/rear%20deck/P1000344.jpg

This was from when I eliminated my rattle, will upgrade speakers sometime later

[zj96sc]

There is surprisingly little definitive tech out there on this stereo system.

What I've gathered:

ok, based on wiring diagrams...

Front 3 are driven by the amp separately.

Rear woofer and mid/tweeter are driven by the amp separately.

Subs are driven by their own independent amplifier.

[UdubBadger]

interesting.

Also I forgot to ask, how does adding something like a Dynavin effect everything sound quality wise?

[Go Horns!]

I am in the middle of installing a whole new system in my car. From what I've learned, the BMW deck sends a differential signal to the amp (i.e., it is not using an RCA Cable). The amp is then separating everything out powering everything but the subs. The subs are powered by a separate amp.

If you plan on upgrading the speakers, you can't just drop in knew ones in the factory locations because the HK system is not setup for 4-ohm speakers (you could go try to find separates, but then you are stuck with the factory amp putting out about 15 RMS a channel). You will end up needing to get an amp. You can still use the factory head-unit, but since I wanted Pandora, Bluetooth, and other bells and whistles I went with an aftermarket head-unit (JVC and Kenwood have color-changing decks).

If you go the component route for front speakers, it is easiest to mount the tweeter in the factory location. For mounting the mid-bass the most common two options are mounting to the door panel or cut a hole in the door and mount to the door. Based on my research, if you are going to mount to the door panel buy something that is 6.25 to 5.25 because then all you need is an adapter and you can mount your speaker (assuming its bottom mount depth is less than 2.5"). I am going to go the door mounting route and use a 6.5" component set for the front. For more info on cutting the doors please see this thread on e46fantatics: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=317339

[SoarinZHP]

....has 24bit burr brown DACs, 3x 4V pre-outs, pretty unusual deck.) feeding an old autotek 900.4. Front channels feed ~110 watts to a set of 6.5 CDT components in the front doors with tweeters mounted in custom built sail panels, rear channels are bridged and wired down to 2ohm to feed ~400watts to an elemental designs 11o.v2. Rear door speakers are factory and fed with the rear channels of the headunit's amp.

Am I the only one completely lost with what zj96sc just said?

[Hermes]

how does adding something like a Dynavin effect everything sound quality wise?

Skip it, audiophile and performance car don't mix. Besides, that stuff adds a lot of weight if you do if the right way (doors, floor, and trunk). Just get better quality sound system and turn up the volume


Am I the only one completely lost with what zj96sc just said?

I used to know what he said but have no clue anymore about most of it

[ryankokesh]

subscribed...

[UdubBadger]

Skip it, audiophile and performance car don't mix. Besides, that stuff adds a lot of weight if you do if the right way (doors, floor, and trunk). Just get better quality sound system and turn up the volume

I used to know what he said but have no clue anymore about most of it
So you think if I need navi (which I do for my work travels) I should just givea givea givea garmin instead of doing something to replace the BMW business CD deck?

[Hermes]

Ahhh... Forget what I said, I was confusing it with Dynamat. It's 1AM out here and I'm not thinking clearly. I need to go to bed soon

Yes to Dynavin. Windows or Android?

[UdubBadger]

:rofl

ok hahaha. But again, how does the dynavin effect the sound (or does it not... and why)?

[Hermes]

Dynamat is sound deadening material which makes your car quieter on the inside with doors and windows closed but it weighs a lot. With a quality aftermarket setup your car will sound great but don't you wanna hear your engine/exhaust?

I would think Dynavin is similar quality to the stock system but I would ask somebody that has one. Maybe check the thread on E46F about it...

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=839753

Honestly I think BSW + Dynavin would be a perfect setup for the car without going too crazy on a custom sound system

[UdubBadger]

oh I'm all too familiar with dynamat. Had rolls of it in my garage for years.

I would love to hear my car :rofl
but this is going to be my daily driver and I listen to a lot of music on my way to/from school, work, everywhere...

Anyway, BSW is about the same PRICE as dynavin so I dunno, if I think I need BSW I might opt for the DICE kit instead and a garmin to save some $. If I can get by with just some cheaper speakers to replace the OEM's then maybe now Dynavin is worth it. Says it puts out 50w x4.

[Hermes]

Dynavin also has more stuff to it... personally I want it for the OBC functions more than anything else

http://www.dynavin.com/products/product_dnv_e46.php

Official US distributor:
http://jandtdistributing.com/dynavinsolutions/bmw-stereo-navigation-units-and-accessories/bmw-e46/

I put the Dynamat info out there for those who don't know, I had a feeling you know what it is.

[SoarinZHP]

Steer clear of DICE.

[UdubBadger]

why is that?

[iZHP]

I just put 2 12" subs and an amp in the trunk and RCA converter to the factory amp. It was a basic setup but it works, I have more bass, and less strain on the HK speakers.

[SoarinZHP]

why is that?

Electrical problems when the DICE was installed. For some it works without problems. Others experience many problems.


http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?5801-Help!-I-ve-got-electrical-problems.-Faulty-instrument-cluster.&highlight=DICE

Plus the problems I had...

[kayger12]

From what I've read, the sound quality with the Dynavin is worse than stock.

[UdubBadger]

I just put 2 12" subs and an amp in the trunk and RCA converter to the factory amp. It was a basic setup but it works, I have more bass, and less strain on the HK speakers.

do tell more. any specifics on the RCA converter?

[UdubBadger]

From what I've read, the sound quality with the Dynavin is worse than stock.

not what I wanted to hear....

[zhp43867]

MISCONCEPTION: Paper is not crap. Paper is used as woofer and mid material on some of the most expensive speakers in the world, it is all about implementation. Hybrid Audio Technology uses exclusively paper cone speakers- and they are where I'd put my money.

A quick intro to speaker materials.

Aluminum drivers: Very high levels of detail and very fast. A little bit cold sound, not as much weight or "soul" as Paper, many would say. Fatiguing to the listener (there are exceptions, but not many). This is the type of system you turn on and say wow! And then after a couple of hours your ears hurt, loud volume or not.

Paper drivers: decent detail, reasonably fast, very sweet and natural midrange (voices, instruments etc.), very good bass impact, softer than aluminum without fatigue.

Kevlar/Carbon/Bamboo/Etc.- These are basically in between materials. Stiffer and lighter than paper, but shouldn't ring or fatigue like Aluminum. These type of speakers can sound quite good when properly engineered or like total shiiit if done wrong.


From what I've read, the sound quality with the Dynavin is worse than stock.

Yes, I concur kayger. On that note who's for putting our first names in ours sigs? I like adressing people by their name much better. Okay back on topic :D

The pre outs seem especially suspect based on some ominous posts by people with sound processors (basically a microphone and a computer that corrects for bouncing sound waves in a car) that it did not even work, or sounded awful. At best it will be the same quality audio.

BSW is a good option.

-I actually started the trend that some of you may be familiar with a far as pulling out the H/K stuff and dropping in components, I recommended a bunch to people on E46fanatics. It sounds very good- but as with everything there is no free lunch.
- With the drop in mid bass woofers they usually are not level matched to the rest of the speakers quite right (a little too loud or too quiet compared to the mids/tweeters) and they don't feature the design for the way the H/K midbass is mounted. If you want more midbass without cutting the doors, keep the H/K woofers (maybe get some new ones), or buy BSW. Keep that foam baffle. Resonance is caused without it, and that's the biggest reason you shouldn't mount other woofers to the door panel. Been there, done that.

-To get other brand aftermarket compnents with an amp, you should really mount the speakers to the door frame, and have some camping mat closed cell foam making a sort of gasket to the speaker grill. This prevents the sound waves from going crazy inside your door panel. This kind of setup will absolutely kick the Harmon Kardon setups ass, but it costs good money.

Putting a sub in the trunk is an interesting dilemma. For how big and heavy the boxes are (20-50lbs on average) they don't get enough louder than a good pair of 6x9s mounted to the stock locations as they should, and I've run both. This is because BMWs interiors are so well sealed that the bass cannot get in unless bolted to the rear deck- where the stock subs are. Bolting a speaker to the rear deck makes the deck the speaker's enclosure, therefore eliminating any problems you'd have with the subs being too quiet.
-People knock out the ski pass, pull out the rear speakers to let more bass in for the 8", 10", 12" sub enclsures. it works, but it isn't free. Guess what you'll also hear with the radio off now? Tools rolling around in the trunk, the groceries, maybe that dead body you haven't stashed yet, etc. will all now be much more audible in the cabin.

I have personally realized I will never be happy with the H/K system because of the amp. it is very lifeless and dead, although it has the ability to play very accurately. I am getting another zhp soon, and will take pictures and make a DIY for the stereo that hopefully some can put to their benefit. Reconigze that the H/K system is actually not that bad (err, it wasn't new, speakers wear out just like shocks, they have suspensions). To beat it will cost a hurtful sum of pocket change. And trust me when I say you wanna do it right the first time, not the second or third.

As far as losing speakers with an aftermarket amplifier- that's should not be a main concern. As long as you buy a decent set of speakers like the Hybrid Audio Unity I6-2, the DLS RM6.2, or the JL C2/C5 sets you really should not lose any midrange presence by having the woofer take over.

PS: If you're installing an aftermarket amplifier to replace the H/K amplifier, search Technik Hi Fi Harness E46 into google. He sells kits that allow you to not cut any wiring, yet run an aftermarket amplifier. Nice! I'm purchasing one.


I am very much into audio and have ripped out all of the stereos in every car I've ever had- and guess what- the only cars I've ever owned have been BMWs so I do know a couple things about their stereos. :) Holy marathon post!

[Go Horns!]

You can get one of these http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/65900410495/ES183682/ and get a single DIN headunit. ECS took the pictures of the part with it upside down.

[SoarinZHP]

The thing about the E46 design is the integration. On one hand, the integration is beautiful. On the other, it is extremely limiting. It's a lot like owning an apple product. Putting a decent ipod adapter without limiting functionality was a real pain in the ass.

[danewilson77]

Marc meet Keith.

~Dane

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[zj96sc]

Dug up some pics. Here's the old fiberglass enclosure I built for the M3, stuffed with an elemental designs 11o.v2. Proper volume, sound deadened, etc.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/paulkeith/cars/m3/IMG_0683s.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/paulkeith/cars/m3/IMG_0692s.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/paulkeith/cars/m3/IMG_0696s.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/paulkeith/cars/m3/IMG_0695s.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/paulkeith/cars/m3/IMG_0699s.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/paulkeith/cars/m3/IMG_0707s.jpg

Like I mentioned though, BMWs are sealed up so tight that I pretty much had to fold the seat down to hear anything.

Keep in mind as well (which flies in the face of what I posted earlier, since I did some reading) that it is not as simple as replacing the speakers since the HK speakers all have weird resistances.

[UdubBadger]

MISCONCEPTION: Paper is not crap. Paper is used as woofer and mid material on some of the most expensive speakers in the world, it is all about implementation. Hybrid Audio Technology uses exclusively paper cone speakers- and they are where I'd put my money.

A quick intro to speaker materials.

Aluminum drivers: Very high levels of detail and very fast. A little bit cold sound, not as much weight or "soul" as Paper, many would say. Fatiguing to the listener (there are exceptions, but not many). This is the type of system you turn on and say wow! And then after a couple of hours your ears hurt, loud volume or not.

Paper drivers: decent detail, reasonably fast, very sweet and natural midrange (voices, instruments etc.), very good bass impact, softer than aluminum without fatigue.

Kevlar/Carbon/Bamboo/Etc.- These are basically in between materials. Stiffer and lighter than paper, but shouldn't ring or fatigue like Aluminum. These type of speakers can sound quite good when properly engineered or like total shiiit if done wrong.



Yes, I concur kayger. On that note who's for putting our first names in ours sigs? I like adressing people by their name much better. Okay back on topic :D

The pre outs seem especially suspect based on some ominous posts by people with sound processors (basically a microphone and a computer that corrects for bouncing sound waves in a car) that it did not even work, or sounded awful. At best it will be the same quality audio.

BSW is a good option.

-I actually started the trend that some of you may be familiar with a far as pulling out the H/K stuff and dropping in components, I recommended a bunch to people on E46fanatics. It sounds very good- but as with everything there is no free lunch.
- With the drop in mid bass woofers they usually are not level matched to the rest of the speakers quite right (a little too loud or too quiet compared to the mids/tweeters) and they don't feature the design for the way the H/K midbass is mounted. If you want more midbass without cutting the doors, keep the H/K woofers (maybe get some new ones), or buy BSW. Keep that foam baffle. Resonance is caused without it, and that's the biggest reason you shouldn't mount other woofers to the door panel. Been there, done that.

-To get other brand aftermarket compnents with an amp, you should really mount the speakers to the door frame, and have some camping mat closed cell foam making a sort of gasket to the speaker grill. This prevents the sound waves from going crazy inside your door panel. This kind of setup will absolutely kick the Harmon Kardon setups ass, but it costs good money.

Putting a sub in the trunk is an interesting dilemma. For how big and heavy the boxes are (20-50lbs on average) they don't get enough louder than a good pair of 6x9s mounted to the stock locations as they should, and I've run both. This is because BMWs interiors are so well sealed that the bass cannot get in unless bolted to the rear deck- where the stock subs are. Bolting a speaker to the rear deck makes the deck the speaker's enclosure, therefore eliminating any problems you'd have with the subs being too quiet.
-People knock out the ski pass, pull out the rear speakers to let more bass in for the 8", 10", 12" sub enclsures. it works, but it isn't free. Guess what you'll also hear with the radio off now? Tools rolling around in the trunk, the groceries, maybe that dead body you haven't stashed yet, etc. will all now be much more audible in the cabin.

I have personally realized I will never be happy with the H/K system because of the amp. it is very lifeless and dead, although it has the ability to play very accurately. I am getting another zhp soon, and will take pictures and make a DIY for the stereo that hopefully some can put to their benefit. Reconigze that the H/K system is actually not that bad (err, it wasn't new, speakers wear out just like shocks, they have suspensions). To beat it will cost a hurtful sum of pocket change. And trust me when I say you wanna do it right the first time, not the second or third.

As far as losing speakers with an aftermarket amplifier- that's should not be a main concern. As long as you buy a decent set of speakers like the Hybrid Audio Unity I6-2, the DLS RM6.2, or the JL C2/C5 sets you really should not lose any midrange presence by having the woofer take over.

PS: If you're installing an aftermarket amplifier to replace the H/K amplifier, search Technik Hi Fi Harness E46 into google. He sells kits that allow you to not cut any wiring, yet run an aftermarket amplifier. Nice! I'm purchasing one.


I am very much into audio and have ripped out all of the stereos in every car I've ever had- and guess what- the only cars I've ever owned have been BMWs so I do know a couple things about their stereos. :) Holy marathon post!
I've actually worked with Technic before... good guy, I have his e9x/e8x iDrive harness in my 135i.

Thanks for the input. I think BSW is probably the best route. However now I'm concerned with DICE for my iPod and Bluetooth. Any other options there?

[iZHP]

it goes L & R audio (red, white) to the sub amp on the back of my sub box, then to the converter, and that wires into the stock amp. It wasn't expensive at all. I'll try to find some info on it.

I also have the AUX input 3.5mm cable jack. It has the best clarity because there is no conversion of any kind. Source direct.

Phones can also play music over bluetooth now...I found that out with the Mustang lol

[UdubBadger]

bluetooth I'm looking for phone call connectivity. Chicago has a pretty hefty fine for non hands free phone calling. the car i'm buying already has the iSimple iPod connectivity.

[iZHP]

what year is the car?

[UdubBadger]

04

[Hermes]

Phones can also play music over bluetooth now...I found that out with the Mustang lol

unfortunately those of us with iPhones can't use that unless you jailbreak it, apple has disabled that ability because they make a ton of money from accessory sales


bluetooth I'm looking for phone call connectivity. Chicago has a pretty hefty fine for non hands free phone calling. the car i'm buying already has the iSimple iPod connectivity.

My boss has one of these in his car (not sure which, it's an older model) and the quality is very similar to my OEM Bluetooth, it would be a good solution for now and you can always sell it to somebody or give to you parents

http://www.jabra.com/Sites/mobile/NA-US/Products/pages/CatSpeakerphone.aspx

(BTW - I'm JP)

[kayger12]

Marc meet Keith.

~Dane

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

Hehe.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[UdubBadger]

unfortunately those of us with iPhones can't use that unless you jailbreak it, apple has disabled that ability because they make a ton of money from accessory sales


My boss has one of these in his car (not sure which, it's an older model) and the quality is very similar to my OEM Bluetooth, it would be a good solution for now and you can always sell it to somebody or give to you parents

http://www.jabra.com/Sites/mobile/NA-US/Products/pages/CatSpeakerphone.aspx

(BTW - I'm JP)

thanks JP,

at this point I might just use a headset for now until I figure out where I want to go with this all. Would really love a dynavin for an all in one OEM looking solution. Also like the readout and navigating menus easily, DICE seems a bit more like you need to remember how to do it. However, I don't want to fudge up the sound so maybe dynavin isn't the best option.

[Hermes]

No worries Seth. Does the car you're getting already have Nav or does it have the Bus CD?

[UdubBadger]

bus cd and a NON DICE aftermarket unit for iPod connection

[kayger12]

This is cut and paste directly from the official Dynavin UK store under "please note": Upgrading your current system to a Dynavin, will give you alot more features, however customers with Harmon Kardon/Bose sound systems may notice a 5% loss in sound quality after installing a dynavin unit, this can be a common occurance with aftermarket systems. We have also found some users may experience poor radio reception in some areas.

Link here http://www.dynavin.co.uk/uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=80

[ranger]

I am not an audio guru but I have put in multiple stereo upgrades into my kids cars over the last 8 years or so. I bought my 2005 ZHP coupe in Atlanta and the previous owner had a custom stereo installed - it sounds great, it is the best sounding stereo I have ever had and I had other custom systems. Unfortunately, I do not know the specs or brand of the new speakers because they were installed by previous owner. The original BMW head unit is still used but all OEM speakers including the HK subs were replaced. There are two amps installed in the spare tire area on a piece of plywood cut to fit into the spare tire area (ie - I now have no spare) . There is a large capacitor on the battery side of the trunk with a dedicated large power wire from battery. One amp powers the aftermarket speakers inside the ZHP and a second amp powers a "box" 8 inch subwoofer in the trunk (if required, I can disconnect leads on box subwoofer and leave it out for more cargo space - this subwoofer box is heavy!)

[UdubBadger]

This is cut and paste directly from the official Dynavin UK store under "please note": Upgrading your current system to a Dynavin, will give you alot more features, however customers with Harmon Kardon/Bose sound systems may notice a 5% loss in sound quality after installing a dynavin unit, this can be a common occurance with aftermarket systems. We have also found some users may experience poor radio reception in some areas.

Link here http://www.dynavin.co.uk/uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=80

yeah ok, that seems about right.

FWIW I haven't listened to the radio since I was maybe 12 (I'm 30 now).

[UdubBadger]

I am not an audio guru but I have put in multiple stereo upgrades into my kids cars over the last 8 years or so. I bought my 2005 ZHP coupe in Atlanta and the previous owner had a custom stereo installed - it sounds great, it is the best sounding stereo I have ever had and I had other custom systems. Unfortunately, I do not know the specs or brand of the new speakers because they were installed by previous owner. The original BMW head unit is still used but all OEM speakers including the HK subs were replaced. There are two amps installed in the spare tire area on a piece of plywood cut to fit into the spare tire area (ie - I now have no spare) . There is a large capacitor on the battery side of the trunk with a dedicated large power wire from battery. One amp powers the aftermarket speakers inside the ZHP and a second amp powers a "box" 8 inch subwoofer in the trunk (if required, I can disconnect leads on box subwoofer and leave it out for more cargo space - this subwoofer box is heavy!)

yeah I think going that route I could easily do something nice but those speaker sizes are going to be a little harder to find replacements for. Normally you'll see brands like Focal carry them - for $600 a pair. Thats not what I want to do here.

Maybe JUST replacing and reamping the 6x9's in the back would liven up the system a little.

[kayger12]

With you on that. The radio has literally never been on in either of my E46s once.

5% sound quality degradation might not be unreasonable for some people who are looking for the increased functionality of the Dynavin.

I'm personally just going to go with the BSW stage 1.

[UdubBadger]

which is very likely I will also seriously consider too, just then need to address the issue of DICE and needing iPod control and Bluetooth phone connectivity. Is DICE the only one that makes a kit for both in 1? I had a parrot kit back in the day but I don't want EXTRA stuff on the dash or anything again, the DICE looked nice because it used the radio for everything.

[zhp43867]

Delmarco on E46fanatics made a DIY for installing Parrot bluetooth, but with head unit control of the unit and having the box and everything hidden. Google "bluetooth diy for under $100 e46fanatics" or something along those lines. USA Spec has the best reputation of the simple iPod integration kits.

For clarification, USASpec/Dice/Grom/iSimple all use pretty much the same chips with different firmware and hardware tweaks. If you are an audiophile they all have crap signal to noise ratios (78db IIRC) so none of them will sound like CD quality, even if you are playing uncompressed music. The E46 aux input also has limited frequency response. Some of the Aux input kits filter bass, and most of them have weak upper treble response. This may be difficult to detect with the stock Harmon Kardon system.

[UdubBadger]

oh ok cool thanks.

what about something like the dynavin, you think the ipod quality would be better through that unit?

[UdubBadger]

maybe I should just consider adding OEM navi

[kayger12]

maybe I should just consider adding OEM navi

Here's my .02 on that. The oem Nav is... meh.

It works pretty well if you have a known address, but if I'm looking for a Starbucks or someplace to eat, I end up using the Google Nav on my Droid.

That being said, the factory bluetooth combined with the nav I love. That alone is worth having the nav setup in the car.

Given having the choice between Business CD or nav setup (having had both in an E46) I definitely prefer the nav.

[SoarinZHP]

Does anyone have the specs for the Intravee combined with the Alpine KCA-420i ipod controller? I bought the Alpine unit used - so it doesn't have specs. It sounds better than the DICE unit.

I have to agree the BMW Nav is fair as a navigation tool. Garmin is way better and harvesting an address from a smart phone works ok, too. With bluetooth it is really cool. With my iPod connector it pauses the ipod when the phone rings and unpauses it when I disconnect. Pretty slick if you ask me.

[zj96sc]

The OEM Nav retrofit is no simple task. Lot of parts to source and a lot of wiring, but tough to beat in interior match.

Just took a look at the BSW products. For the amount of money that they're asking for the Amp (doesn't exist yet) and Speaker upgrade kits, you could scratch build a stereo that would blow it to the moon. With an aftermarket deck you'd get easy bluetooth, xm, usb, aux, ipod, or even navi if you want to relocate your hvac controls using the relo kit.

Audio stats on any medium to high end aftermarket equipment will run circles around the BMW parts too - BSW's speakers and AMP still leave the head unit which is as important a component as any and where the connectivity limitations begin anyway.

Does the Dynavin have preamp outputs?

The difference in the end of the day is the simplicity of the installation. You CAN do a very nice, very clean, non permanent installation...it will just take a LOT of effort. Life was a lot easier in the E36 when you just had a true single DIN opening.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/paulkeith/cars/m3/Img_1003.jpg

Based on the pricetags of the BSW equipment, I'd source a deck, 4 channel amp, and 2 pairs of components. Leave the factory 6x9s in place until you save back up for a 1 or 2 channel and throw in a single high quality 8 or 10 in a lightweight removable fiberglass box. Last time I did this nice 5 channel amps were hard to come by, but they really simplify the work if you can find one. Amp installation in a BMW is nice and easy anyway due to our battery location.

I guess it boils down to the same thing it always does - take your money and turn some wrenches for a superior product, or take your money and plug and play for a better product.

[Hermes]

Actually I found that our cars are prewired when I pulled my rear deck apart despite no marking of pre-wired anywhere on my car... All I would need is the head unit and console relocation thing for the a/c unit. Maybe it's just a ZHP thing BMW did for that extra $4000

[zj96sc]

And the brain, and the DVD drive, and the GPS antenna...the list goes on.

[UdubBadger]

ok well....

how does this sound (no pun intended)

Dynavin
keep HK speakers (or find a set of used BSWs)
BSW sub package.

[UdubBadger]

Maybe I should ask Halston about a little family member discount on BSW, I'm sure more than just myself would be interested.

[kayger12]

They tried a group buy on E46f-- it was 10% off for 10 people, 20% for 20, and 30% for 30.

They got 10 people, but it died before the expiration of the group buy.

I think we could get 10 people here to sign up for 20% off, but I don't know if 10% would do it.

For 20%, I think some people would get off of the fence.

Make sure you PM Marcus if you're planning on setting something up before any formal offers get posted.

[UdubBadger]

naturally.

[zhp43867]

The OEM Nav retrofit is no simple task. Lot of parts to source and a lot of wiring, but tough to beat in interior match.

Just took a look at the BSW products. For the amount of money that they're asking for the Amp (doesn't exist yet) and Speaker upgrade kits, you could scratch build a stereo that would blow it to the moon. With an aftermarket deck you'd get easy bluetooth, xm, usb, aux, ipod, or even navi if you want to relocate your hvac controls using the relo kit.

Audio stats on any medium to high end aftermarket equipment will run circles around the BMW parts too - BSW's speakers and AMP still leave the head unit which is as important a component as any and where the connectivity limitations begin anyway.

Does the Dynavin have preamp outputs?

The difference in the end of the day is the simplicity of the installation. You CAN do a very nice, very clean, non permanent installation...it will just take a LOT of effort. Life was a lot easier in the E36 when you just had a true single DIN opening.

Based on the pricetags of the BSW equipment, I'd source a deck, 4 channel amp, and 2 pairs of components. Leave the factory 6x9s in place until you save back up for a 1 or 2 channel and throw in a single high quality 8 or 10 in a lightweight removable fiberglass box. Last time I did this nice 5 channel amps were hard to come by, but they really simplify the work if you can find one. Amp installation in a BMW is nice and easy anyway due to our battery location.

I guess it boils down to the same thing it always does - take your money and turn some wrenches for a superior product, or take your money and plug and play for a better product.

The E46 Business CD and Nav unit are fine source units with good S/N ratios and the like, nothing phenomenal but very good. Aftermarket units always have their own problems, and the single din ones look pretty meh in the E46.

Also, I think that the main obstacle for aftermarket amp install is people who are not willing to cut into their doors for true aftermarket components.


ok well....

how does this sound (no pun intended)

Dynavin
keep HK speakers (or find a set of used BSWs)
BSW sub package.

Sounds good. The Dynavin should work well with that setup. You are out a ton of dough with that though. Do you have a coupe or sedan?

It does mystify me how BSW claims the sub they sell retains all space, I mean maybe it's a joke... Also I'd imagine that the iPod output is just as good as the head unit overall, but I don't have a number for the Dynavin itself.

Like I said in my last post when I get my new zhp I'm going to write up a DIY on my clean-as-possible aftermarket stereo, new amp, components and subwoofer. That should be a month or two tops.

[zj96sc]

ok well....

how does this sound (no pun intended)

Dynavin
keep HK speakers (or find a set of used BSWs)
BSW sub package.

I still don't know how this works with the dynavin. their website is pretty much garbage. no specs and the owner manual likes go 404.

the basic specs say it has a 50x4 amp, meaning you're now sending amplified signal to the stock amp which brings us back to problem #1.

scratch that, the uk website has a good manual. reading now.

OK, so the dynavin does indeed have pre-outs. I assume if you wire it up without them you are sending amplified signal to the stock amp which is probably where that sound quality problem comes from. so either wire it up per print and put in some line level converters somewhere, or wire it up using the preouts feeding the stock amp.

worth reading: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=754606

jeff, the dynavin dealer on e46f, hated the sound quality from dynavin->factory amp-> factory rear speakers so bad he flat out unplugged it. that probably tells you something about what you're getting yourself into. you pretty much WILL have to run line level converters or wire it up using the RCAs. this is no plug and play installation.

from that post too:

Final problem is a small one but its there and its a noise problem, all the other noises were cleaned up by proper gain matching but there is a buzz when the headlights are on and the dashlight dimmer is set to a dim position, it is worse when the volume is set to "0" or when changing sources. If the volume is up even one notch it becomes almost inaudible or if the dashlights are set to the brigher side of their adjustment. Not a deal killer but not right either.

also several EQ features in the GUI that don't do anything, etc. all detailed in his post.

long story short, if you're trying to improve audio quality i dont know that the dynavin is the way to go.

[iZHP]

unfortunately those of us with iPhones can't use that unless you jailbreak it, apple has disabled that ability because they make a ton of money from accessory sales

Not true. Our 2011 Ford Mustang has the feature. The phone supports it, it's the bluetooth device that has to allow it.

The Ford has a Source button for "User Device" (iPhone): USB cable or Bluetooth. When I found out we didn't need a cable to play music anymore, I was pretty amused.


04

Keep the stock HK system, and install the AUX jack. It's the best sounding option, cheapest (~$40), and your phone can route calls over the sound system when plugged in, and radio is in AUX input mode.

[Hermes]

Not true. Our 2011 Ford Mustang has the feature. The phone supports it, it's the bluetooth device that has to allow it.

The Ford has a Source button for "User Device" (iPhone): USB cable or Bluetooth. When I found out we didn't need a cable to play music anymore, I was pretty amused.

Good to know, maybe they'll offer something like that on the F30

[zhp43867]

OK, so the dynavin does indeed have pre-outs. I assume if you wire it up without them you are sending amplified signal to the stock amp which is probably where that sound quality problem comes from. so either wire it up per print and put in some line level converters somewhere, or wire it up using the preouts feeding the stock amp.

worth reading: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=754606

jeff, the dynavin dealer on e46f, hated the sound quality from dynavin->factory amp-> factory rear speakers so bad he flat out unplugged it. that probably tells you something about what you're getting yourself into. you pretty much WILL have to run line level converters or wire it up using the RCAs. this is no plug and play installation.

from that post too:


also several EQ features in the GUI that don't do anything, etc. all detailed in his post.

long story short, if you're trying to improve audio quality i dont know that the dynavin is the way to go.

Incorrect information. The original Dynavin had noise issues, the new one doesn't really. The Dynavin is plug and play. Sending an amplified signal to the stock amplifier is how people install aftermarket head units with the stock head amp in general. Hooking the stock amplifier via pre-outs would sound horrible because the Dynavin has 2V pre outs and the amp is expecting 5-10 volts.

[zj96sc]

Incorrect information.

Love your attitude!

The fact that sending an amplified signal into the factory amp is how it is frequently done is largely irrelevant. It is still not the "correct" way to do it and is the reason that 95% of aftermarket stereo installations in an E46 do not sound good.

It also would not sound "horrible" to go the RCA route, it would just not be very loud. As far as sound quality is concerned its probably better off than amplifying an amplified signal and clipping left and right.

Besides all of that, the reason that the dynavin is now largely "noise free" is because they just include LOCs in the firmware, which is technically transparent to what I said earlier. I guess it does make it "plug and play" though, so sure. :thumbsup

[kayger12]

Uncle Keith feels like he wandered onto one of "those" forums today.

Let's self-police the environment today folks, lest I begin to drop the snippy-comment hammer.

One good turn does NOT deserve another here.

If we can't keep it professional, helpful, and Family-oriented, let's just move on.

Not sure if it's something in the water here today or what, but let's end it.

[Hermes]

And the brain, and the DVD drive, and the GPS antenna...the list goes on.

Sorry, wiring and antenna installed is what I was trying to get at. The rest of the system is what I meant would be necessary to complete the job. See here:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/rear%20deck/P1000388.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/rear%20deck/P1000385.jpg

[kayger12]

If your attitude is sour, that's unfortunate-- but then please make your way to the door until you can play well with others.

We have no issue correcting each other here, we just do it in a way that doesn't make the forum degrade into the nasty environment that we can't stand on the other forums.

[Hermes]

We have no issue correcting each other here, we just do it in a way that doesn't make the forum degrade into the nasty environment that we can't stand on the other forums.

+1 - I correct my friends all the time face to face but you don't have to have a bad attitude while doing it. Honestly when I do experience somebody telling me the correct info but with a bad attitude I generally don't listen because they piss me off. I appreciate you letting us know what's up with the stereo but like Keith said just do it as our friend, not one of those guys we dont like on the other forums. Please continue to make your opinion know but just do it as a family member.

/off topic point

[danewilson77]

If your attitude is sour, that's unfortunate-- but then please make your way to the door until you can play well with others.

We have no issue correcting each other here, we just do it in a way that doesn't make the forum degrade into the nasty environment that we can't stand on the other forums.

+1


+1 - I correct my friends all the time face to face but you don't have to have a bad attitude while doing it. Honestly when I do experience somebody telling me the correct info but with a bad attitude I generally don't listen because they piss me off. I appreciate you letting us know what's up with the stereo but like Keith said just do it as our friend, not one of those guys we dont like on the other forums. Please continue to make your opinion know but just do it as a family member.

/off topic point

+1


Yeah my attitude on this forum has soured of late. I just don't get along with people so I guess I stopped trying.



Just remember. You stopped trying. We.... did not.

[zj96sc]

Using the RCA output of an average deck will be too quiet, sort of as you said. It will clip because the H/K amp will have its gain extremely high to try to keep up- volume wise. The Dynavin and the majority of other inexpensive head units use 2V pre outs. If you search on bimmeforums and E46fanatics you'll find threads where people used the RCA adapter into their stock BMW amp and it was very quiet and sounded like crap, because the BMW amp "wants" 5-6V, not 2V.

Interesting. Upon a little more reading it does seem that the factory head unit is indeed closer to "amp" than "pre-amp" in the traditional sense, ie the input side of the H/K external amplifier is indeed used to higher voltage levels.

Perhaps an easy solution would be to find a high volt preout deck. I know in my 2nd M3 I just ran the alpine deck's amplified output to the H/K amp and distortion was rampant. I never tried that deck's 4v preouts into a converter, though.

Without adjustable gains on the H/K external amplifier though, I don't know how you could hook up your average mosfet 45/50x4 deck and not run out of speaker at like 50% of your available volume range.

Either way, with LOCs built into the firmware of the new dynavin, that is pretty handy. I still think I'd prefer to just bypass the stock system entirely, dynavin or other at the helm. Dynavin plus is that the dash installation is pretty schmexy, minuses being the 2v preouts.

[Hermes]

So would the solution for Dynavin be new amp that takes the 2v line then run from amp to speakers? Also, is this an issue with the D99 or just D95 version?

[UdubBadger]

well sorry to see Derek go on leave...


anyway, I just figured BSW+dynavin would be good because BSW does instructional videos on how to install a dynavin on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Eg7ZXez0c

I just figured with how concerned with sound quality these guys are they wouldn't do a video of its install if it wasn't a good match.


"PAGING HALSTON.... "

[Go Horns!]

So would the solution for Dynavin be new amp that takes the 2v line then run from amp to speakers? Also, is this an issue with the D99 or just D95 version?

You would need a 3-way cross-over for the factory hk speakers. Sending full frequency signal to them would make them sound like crap. you don't want the tweeter trying to play 200 Hz and you don't want the woofer trying to play 15,000 Hz. But if you are going to spend on a new amp and a cross-over, you might as well shell out the extra bucks and get better speakers. A decent component set for the front will run $100 to $150, and a co-axial for rear fill will be in the $80 to $100 range. You can spend more money, but if you are trying to save, you can get good speakers for relatively little outlay.

[Hermes]

what about some in-line crossovers or just skip? how many of those would you need? Three or five? Those things only run like $20/each vs about $150 for a 3 way electronic crossover

+1 on paging Halston (unless he's working on the E30, take your time but hurry up with the pics of the black and gold car!)

[Go Horns!]

I was thinking that you would split a channel from an amp using a passive cross-over.

[Hermes]

I see... well time for me to get some sleep. will check in on how this thread progresses in the morning (1.20am here).

[UdubBadger]

night jp

[zj96sc]

Most headunits and amps will have crossovers in them already. My sony deck has a HPF for the 4 sets of main preouts and a LPF for the sub preout. They can be turned off, or dialed in to a handful of common frequencies. My alpines all have had them built in as well.

Amps will usually have them too.

I'm not really up to speed on the dynavin versions, but from what i can gather they went from no LOCs, to LOCs built into the harness, to LOCs built into the firmware. Perhaps this aligns with 90/95/99 but I do not know.

Since this newest one does apparently have LOCs built into the firmware, if we're lucky the outputs then match the original deck's 5-6 volts and everything would be hunky dory. Hopefully Halston or someone else can chime in on the voltage of the amplified outputs of the dynavin with the firmware LOCs turned ON.

[UdubBadger]

oooo that sounds like a little bit of hope for Dynavin working out for me.

[UdubBadger]

Ok so a few Q's:

Double DIN kit for E46 available somewhere in case I want to do a Kenwood GPS deck instead of Dynavin?

Maybe I should do Dynavin, change out the speakers/amps with aftermarket stuff too. I'd obviously lose DSP but hell I don't car if its amped properly.
Any suggestions on going this route? Do I really need a sub?

[Jon D]

I just went to Crutchfield for grins and entered 04 3 series and see what they came up with. There are a number of new indash nav systems that have fold out screens that might let you have your cake and eat it too. One reason I did not even look at built in GPS is did not want to do the double DIN install and change the look of the dash.

[UdubBadger]

see the double din doesn't bother me plus it won't cover up the vents when open. plus the motors on those folding ones burn out pretty quickly. I just don't know if they even make a double din kit.

[Jon D]

I would talk with this guy - just did a quick Google search

http://www.mybimmer.net/doubledintrim.htm

[zj96sc]

Yeah, they're all over ebay. The heater control relo kit is pretty straightforward as well.

Nothing you're going to do though will match the fit of the dynavin because a "DIN" slot is narrower than our opening....you'll end up with dead space on either side which is what (IMO) drives the "poor" look.

Provided your funds are there, I'd go dynavin, amps, and speakers. I 100% recommend getting a sub. You'll never match the crisp bass with anything but.

Like I mentioned earlier you can simplify things a little if you find a nice 5 channel amp, but they're hard to come across.

[Go Horns!]

You can get get a good 5-channel amp for less than $400 if you search. I bought the Boston Acoustic GT-5750 (4x70, 1x250 @ 4 ohms; THD of .03% at rated power) straight from their website for $349. The good thing about it is that it can be mounted anywhere because it has cooling fans. There are plenty of Class-D 5-channel amps that will get the job done.

Thee double din kits I've seen look pretty good.

[UdubBadger]

Yeah, they're all over ebay. The heater control relo kit is pretty straightforward as well.

Nothing you're going to do though will match the fit of the dynavin because a "DIN" slot is narrower than our opening....you'll end up with dead space on either side which is what (IMO) drives the "poor" look.

Provided your funds are there, I'd go dynavin, amps, and speakers. I 100% recommend getting a sub. You'll never match the crisp bass with anything but.

Like I mentioned earlier you can simplify things a little if you find a nice 5 channel amp, but they're hard to come across.

sounds like what I'm going to do.

5 channel amps areeasy, Alpine makes a nice one.

[Jon D]

sounds like what I'm going to do.

5 channel amps areeasy, Alpine makes a nice one.

Yeah very happy with mine... PDX 5

[zj96sc]

times have improved. options were scarce in 2005/6 last time i tried this. keep us up on your purchases and progress!

[UdubBadger]

and what about speakers for everyone? i hear the 6.5's are shallow as heck.

[zj96sc]

yeah, everything i've read is that there is zero depth in there.

[Go Horns!]

You have a little over 2.5" of depth in a sedan. Probably not much different in coupes. To get 6.5s you need either shallow mounts or to cut a hole in the door. I was thinking of cutting the hole and getting a baffle made to mount on the door, but I don't have the tools to make the baffle. Instead, I am going to panel mount my 6.5s and cut a 5" hole in the door with a rotary tool so the speakers can "breath." Hopefully I will have all my supplies by next weekend.

[UdubBadger]

BSW just keeps looking more and more appealing.

any issues running it on a non OEM amp though?

[Go Horns!]

To run BSW on a non-oem amp you will need a cross-over network to mimic the oem amp cross-overs. A pair of passive 3-way crossover (decent one running from $100 to $200) will take care of the fronts. You would probably need another passive cross-over for the rears and just not use the tweeter channel.

So you will be at $600 for BSW and $200 for cross-overs.

Or you could buy good 5.25" components to runs in the front door and a co-axial 5.25 to run on the rear deck, only modification with this set-up is two pair of $10 speaker adapters and splicing into factory wires. This would run you $200 for the components, $100 for the co-axial, and $20 for brackets. You can use the left-over money for an amp and a used magic-box (sub-box that goes over battery). Take the speaker prices with a grain of salt. You can get good stuff for $150 or you can get out of this world stuff for $500 on components; the co-axial is just rear-fill and you should not put a lot of money there.

I think the main question you need to ask yourself is do you ever want to be able to go back to stock. Don't start planning a system until you answer this question. I decided that I am not ever going back to stock, so cutting wires, cutting doors, and altering speaker mounts does not bother me.

[UdubBadger]

I'm not too concerned with going back to stock, mostly concerned with putting together something that sounds good, gives me navi, bluetooth and full iPod control, and looks OEMish for like $1500 or so.

I'd rather not cut stuff up too much personally. Also my concern is the level of what work needs to be done. I can install the Dynavin most likely and I'm sure I could do all the BSW products if I went that route, but anything more probably not.

[Go Horns!]

The problem is that to get navi in a head unit, you will need to spend $600 minimum; that eats up a huge chunk of your budget. I've spent close to $1400 gathering everything for my install together and my head-unit was $170.00 (It has pretty much everything you would want except navi).

For you, this what you will need to do to keep at $1500
Navi HU - $600
Bracket - $100
5-channel Amp -$300 (the sub will come later but spending a bit extra now makes adding the sub easy)
adapters and wiring kits - $150 (assuming you want steering wheel controls)
5.25 Front Components - $120
5.25 Rear co-axial - $80
overage - $50

This would put you right at $1400. The speakers would fit in the stock locations with minimal modifications.

I think you are selling yourself short on the install, there are plenty of DIYs for amps and speakers. The hardest part of an amp install is running the power cable from the battery to the trunk, but we don't have that problem. I am going to start my install this weekend, and hopefully finish it up the weekend after. I plan on documenting it.

[UdubBadger]

OK well let me throw some curveballs your way.


Dynavin - $700
HVAC relocation -$35
5 Chan amp - $400
5.25 components - FREE (have a set of MB Quart RUA213's in a box I was going to sell)
5.25 2 way rears - $65 (was thinking MB Quart again, maybe these http://pivco.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2415&cPath=291&m1track=googlebase#googlebase )
$50 odds n ends

Right there I'm only at $1250
That way I can get a sub if I decide I want one. I don't mind going over $1500 if needed I just want to make sure it's a solid set up.

[Go Horns!]

I have not read good things about the new MB Quart stuff (they changed ownership), but I have never heard them. If you have heard the speakers and like them go for it. I'm partial to Morel, but speakers are like beer. My favorite somebody else will bash, and I will not like what that guy likes; nobody is wrong or right for the most part.

Does your amp cost include the wiring kit, that thing will be $50. You will probably want to run RCA cables from the Dynavin to the amp, so that is another $20-$30. I don't know if the Dynavin produces a clean signal, but I'm sure it is fine. You might want to go read the Dynavin thread over at e46fanatics to see peoples' impressions on running it with RCA cables. I would do and advanced search of the Dynavin thread and look for all the posts with RCA.

[UdubBadger]

yeah I have a kit from my 1er I can reuse. I will look up some reviews over there. Maybe I should just also plan on getting a cleansweep? used ones aren't too bad priced.

[zj96sc]

Yeah, budget more for wires so you can do a quality install.

I love my CDT speakers, but just like go horns said, speakers are like beer....great way to put it. MB quart used to be good back in the day but no idea on today's quality.

I think you're putting together a pretty good system. 5.25s will lack a little low end punch, but you can make up for this with a good properly enclosed sub.

[UdubBadger]

yeah and that is kinda what i want anyway... its like a home theater mentality to it all. small surrounds for highs/mids and a sub in the back corner to separate the bass. let the sub do all the work on the bottom end.

[Go Horns!]

Which amp are you thinking?

[UdubBadger]

Alpine PDX or something like that.

[Go Horns!]

Sonic Electronix has a pretty good set-up for searching amps. You might find something that you have not heard of but has cleaner power or is less expensive.

[UdubBadger]

any suggestions? I just figured a PDX is good and easily available.

[Go Horns!]

Boston Acoustics GT-5750 - $350 on BA website. A/B so it is not small, but can be mounted in any orientation because it has fans. This is what I bought.

Massive Audio NX5 - $350 at Sonic Electronix. Know for being overrated, but still has lots of power. Detailed review here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/93284-massive-audio-nano-nx5-nx4-nx2-review.html

JL Audio XD Amps have a good rep but are pricey.

[UdubBadger]

see the size is gonna be an issue. I can't lose space doing this.

[SureShot434]

unfortunately those of us with iPhones can't use that unless you jailbreak it, apple has disabled that ability because they make a ton of money from accessory sales



Not true lol as long as you can connect your iPhone to it via bluetooth you should be able to stream your music. It's called Airplay.

[Go Horns!]

see the size is gonna be an issue. I can't lose space doing this.

You can mount the BA amp upside down. I am going to mount it to the underside of the reardeck.

The NX5 has a pretty small footprint. 15x5.5. Alpine is 10x7.5.

All of them are good amps, you probably can't go wrong with any of them.

The other option is to go with a bridgeable for 4-channel amp and run the rear fill off the Dynavin's amp. Use channels 1 and 2 for front components and then bridge 3&4 for the sub.

[UdubBadger]

thats not a bad idea... but I do want some fuller sound in the cabin so I might actually do this:

MB Quart 5.25 components front & rear
5 channel amp - still deciding.
JL 10" sub mounted in a BSW box

that way I can maybe even get that amp mounted up in the box too like BSW does with their systems.

[Go Horns!]

The problem with doing the components in the rear is that you want the staging (where your mind thinks the sound is coming from) to be in the middle of the dash board. By using components in the rear you are spending money on speakers that are not going to be a major part of the sound stage. There are lots of people that don't even use rear fill speakers, me being one of them (in my Tahoe I don't use the rear channels and it sounds fine as long as your are not in the back seat).

I e-mailed BSW and asked if I could buy the box without the sub or amp, and they said no. You should see if this box is still for sale: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=862646&highlight=box

[UdubBadger]

hmmm... i see what you're saying with the staging, good point.

I also emailed BSW, no reply yet but this leads me to believe they once did offer it or are just very misleading about it all.
http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/category/156/0/BMW-Sub-Enclosures/


Guess we will see.

[UdubBadger]

Halston said no go.

[Go Horns!]

A new magic box is $350. Search bmw e46 sub box on ebay and the fiberglass ones are in consumer electronics. It wouldn't hurt to make an offer on one and see what happens.

The other option is to troll e46 fanatics and hope one pops up.

FYI - Only sedan enclosures fit sedans and vice versa for coupes.

[UdubBadger]

yeah the problem is that magic box will take up some side room in the corner. I really wanted to have one that was mounted to the underside of the rear deck. maybe i'll get a quote on a custom fab from Abt

[Go Horns!]

You could go hard-core custom and turn the stock rears into dual infinite baffle 8s.

[zhp43867]

5 Channel Amplifiers that are small and Class D; JL HD 900/5 and XD 700/5, probably the two best sounding options. I think you could get the 700/5 into the CD changer portion of the trunk too.

Other options, PPI Phantom P900.5 or the new Polk DA5000.5.

The old Alpine PDX amps and Arc Audio Class D amplifiers have a higher noise floor than would be preferable. The two JL amplifiers will be better sounding than the Polk or PPI but can't beat the latter two for $/watt. Buy the Technic harness as well.

[UdubBadger]

yeah the JL's are nice, will definitely be seriously considering them and probably a 10" JL sub as well.

[UdubBadger]

is HK sound the same as DSP? One of the Dynavin dealers is telling me it works on HK sound but not if you have DSP. I thought DSP was how the amp worked on HK.

[Go Horns!]

DSP generaly means digital sound processing, which is time alignment, electronic cross-overs, and electronic EQ. What did the Dynavin dealer mean by DSP? The HK amp does some sound processing, but that is the internal cross-overs, but I don't think it is DSP.

[UdubBadger]

I dunno he just said if it has HK its fine, DSP it isn't plug and play so it's harder to wire up. :dunno

WTF why don't the people selling this stuff know more about it?

[Alobi]

bump :shifty

*ahem*

What configuration did you end up going with Seth? I'm in the market for better sound in my ZHP but haven't decided what route to take yet.

[nike001]

^I think he got a slightly used BSW set..?

BUT, I'm pretty sure I scored a "BSW Style" box that was $150+ for $60 +shipping costs from Cali to Pennsylvania.

Audiophiles:

Does this seem like a viable set-up? I've had Pioneer subs before and they're real nice for low notes, and I've also had Kicker subs too which seemed to hit a little harder. But I won't be bumping.. so I'm thinking the low-ness of the Pioneers will do me some good.

Also thinking if I need 1 or 2 subs. I'm thinking 1 for now and I can mount my amp upside down on the box. (unless someone else has a better spot for it?)

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_22732_Kenwood-KAC-8105D.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_32838_Pioneer-TS-W259S4.html

[Go Horns!]

For that price range, probably can't go wrong with the sub. As for mounting the amp upside-down, you need to find out if the amp is designed for that. Most amps are designed for rightside up so the heat rises from the circuit board. If you put the amp upside down and it does not have a fan, you are in for thermal overload.

I know that the boston gt amps work in any orientation because they have fan in them. I own two and love them, super clean sound. Boston quit making car audio stuff, so once their gone, their gone.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17785_Boston-Acoustics-GT-2125.html this would work great with the sub you picked.

[billyjack]

For that price range, probably can't go wrong with the sub. As for mounting the amp upside-down, you need to find out if the amp is designed for that. Most amps are designed for rightside up so the heat rises from the circuit board. If you put the amp upside down and it does not have a fan, you are in for thermal overload.

I know that the boston gt amps work in any orientation because they have fan in them. I own two and love them, super clean sound. Boston quit making car audio stuff, so once their gone, their gone.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17785_Boston-Acoustics-GT-2125.html this would work great with the sub you picked.

That is generally true about amps but this one is a Class D which are more efficient and should have no problem being upside down. You should see if you can access the owners manual online. It would say whether or not it has mounting limitations.

[Go Horns!]

From the manual:
• Install this unit in a location which allows heat to
easily dissipate.
Once installed, do not place any object on top
of the unit.

I would not install this thing upside down. It relies on heat rising off of it to cool it.

[nike001]

Anybody have any other nifty places to hide an amplifier then?

[Go Horns!]

The one I linked to can be mounted upside down, had more power than the Kenwood and was less expensive. Is the footprint too big?

[nike001]

Yeah it seems a bit big. I'm not even 100% sure if I'll mount it upside down though. I might opt for 2 10" subs.

Regardless, I need a nifty spot to hide my amp. I'm not sure how people hang them against the back side of the back seat in the trunk..

[UdubBadger]

bump :shifty

*ahem*

What configuration did you end up going with Seth? I'm in the market for better sound in my ZHP but haven't decided what route to take yet.


Yes I got a "like new" BSW kit. I only installed the fronts sets though as the rears didn't matter as much *sold Rando the midbass set and just didn't get around to installing the mid drivers*. Combined with my Dynavin and Infinity basslink it's a pretty healthy sounding system.

[johnrando]

Didn't put them in yet, I just got the front tweet/midrange as well, so looking forward to installing and hearing the difference with both sets.

[nike001]

BSW. Ah, something else I have to do.

They charge absolutely outrageous prices though

[UdubBadger]

Hunt for used


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile

[johnrando]

Yup, I got tired of waiting so I combined Seth's used with 2 fronts new. Not a whole Stage 1 but hopefully this will do. In my dreams I'd have Kyle's (statics) set up, but this should work.

[nike001]

Guys, I have a guy in the SoCal area that has a BSW style box that I was going to buy off him.. but he can't come up with a box to ship it in. Does anyone have any ideas?!

[UdubBadger]

yeah tell him to go to FedEx and let them pack it for him. :rofl


He'll just have to make a box for it that will likely be 2 boxes used together.

[nike001]

Yeah I'm sure he went there before while getting quotes. But he said that $60 was the cheapest route to ship is USPS! Robbery.

[UdubBadger]

Nah USPS is pricey. I'd go FedEx anyway for insurance reasons. USPS insurance claims suck


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile

[nike001]

Apparently he's checking there tomorrow.

God damn I've been waiting for him to ship this box since like the 15th. It took him a week and a half to get shipping quotes because of school finals. Then he forgot about it for a week. Then he asked me to give him a week to find a box to ship it in.

All this time waiting I could have had another box made for my ski pass and have some thump by now. But I don't really want a ski pass sub because I want to retain 100% of my trunk space (not that I use it anyways, I just like it clean)

[zhp43867]

Apparently he's checking there tomorrow.

God damn I've been waiting for him to ship this box since like the 15th. It took him a week and a half to get shipping quotes because of school finals. Then he forgot about it for a week. Then he asked me to give him a week to find a box to ship it in.

All this time waiting I could have had another box made for my ski pass and have some thump by now. But I don't really want a ski pass sub because I want to retain 100% of my trunk space (not that I use it anyways, I just like it clean)

BSW doesn't retain anywhere near 100% of trunk space...

[UdubBadger]

Nope, better off with bass link in the corner


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile

[nike001]

BSW doesn't retain anywhere near 100% of trunk space...

Trunk floor space. Silly me.

EDIT: I found another box. Kid in CA flaked out, so I got a legit BSW box. Should be here any day now...

[UdubBadger]

it drops down quite a ways so you lose cargo space for sure, but yeah like Dalton said, not FLOOR space.