A little scare... :( but ok for now - what's this ???

[Washburn]

Ok the ZHP sits a lot, and last time it got driven was about 1.5 weeks and then the temp dropped, sometimes freezing or below, like last night - car sits outside. Battery is OEM factory.

Today when I started it after sitting for about 1.5 wks, the car started rough, shook, and there was some type of knocking sound with the shaking, as if it idled really slow or something...then the RPMs jumped up and down a bit and then started to drop and then the SES and EML lights came on, and I turned car off - all this was in about 25 sec's or so.

I started it immediately back on, and it started fine, and idled fine, and no SES or EML lamps or any other warnings....

Drove it a bit back and forth - drove like normal, AFA I could tell - normal sounds, normal power, and I shut the car off and on several times during the day while driving, no waring lights, CEL, etc.

Thinking it was the battery perhaps, i went to AAP and had them check the battery (hence my panicky battery thread - i figured it out how to get the cover off - thanks)

- the tech said the battery (OEM white) didn't test good or bad, but 'NEEDS CHARGING' came up on the display of his tester...I didn't charge it - just drove a bit more after that.

They couldn't check codes as they can only do it if the CEL is ON, the tech said...

I didn't get a new battery, as it's still ok...SHOULD I HAVE? I have a $20 off coupon at AAP, and they had the Autocraft Gold 94R in stock...somrtimes it does crank a bit too much before starting, and remote key function have been getting worse...like i have to get really close to open doors, etc...

I don't think the rough starting/idling thing was battery, what do you guys think? if it was the battery, why would the car start at all? and why would the CEL light come on? Bad battery can't trigger a rough idling/knocking and make the SES light come on, right?

On the other hand, if something IS mechanically wrong with the engine, how come it started and drove fine a second later and no CEL any more?

what should I do? a Bit scared right now and bummed...

[danewilson77]

It will be dead next time you drive it most likely.

I vote buy a new battery.

[Washburn]

Thanks Dane .
So a bad battery can cause knocking/shaking and make the SES/EML come on?

I can still get the new battery tonight, I think...

[echo46]

I concur, especially if it is the original battery. It would be about time.

[Johnmadd]

Do you have extra amp and sub or anything extra electronically?

[Washburn]

Nope - all is stock on the car...

so guys - why would a bad battery cause rough idle/knock and SES/EML? but not the battery/charging light to come on? this is what baffles me...

[MrMaico]

Mine has done something similar a few times right after filling gas....it would run rough but blipping the throttle or a restart would clear it out. Never did it once though all last summer and I have no idea what might have caused it.

Another thing I've done a couple of times is started it briefly (a minute or two) not running it long enough for the engine to get anywhere near operating temp and shut down. Then the next time I went to start it, even if it was a week later, it would run pretty rough for maybe 15 seconds or so. I'm guessing it is causing some type of "confusion" in the ECU by not letting it warm up fully before shutting it down similar to what could happen with the automatic choke on a carbureted engine.

Any chance you did this before starting it today?

[kayger12]

Nope - all is stock on the car...

so guys - why would a bad battery cause rough idle/knock and SES/EML? but not the battery/charging light to come on? this is what baffles me...

Yes. Low voltage can wreak havoc on just about everything without throwing a code or triggering the light.

Bimmers are VERY voltage sensitive.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[Washburn]

Mine has done something similar a few times right after filling gas....it would run rough but blipping the throttle or a restart would clear it out. Never did it once though all last summer and I have no idea what might have caused it.

Another thing I've done a couple of times is started it briefly (a minute or two) not running it long enough for the engine to get anywhere near operating temp and shut down. Then the next time I went to start it, even if it was a week later, it would run pretty rough for maybe 15 seconds or so. I'm guessing it is causing some type of "confusion" in the ECU by not letting it warm up fully before shutting it down similar to what could happen with the automatic choke on a carbureted engine.

Any chance you did this before starting it today?

- This was not after getting gas. actually it was very LOW on gas...The car sat for about 1.5 weeks before starting today. except: (like you guessed) the following:
- HOWEVER, wifey did start the car just to change the parking spot, about 3 nights ago. Of course I am guessing she shut it down after a minute (max) or so. The outside temps were low then, too.

[MrMaico]

- This was not after getting gas. actually it was very LOW on gas...The car sat for about 1.5 weeks before starting today. except: (like you guessed) the following:
- HOWEVER, wifey did start the car just to change the parking spot, about 3 nights ago. Of course I am guessing she shut it down after a minute (max) or so. The outside temps were low then, too.

I'd bet that's what caused it. I've had it happen twice now. If you have a code reader I'll guess there is a stored code for a misfire. Mine had the code both times it happened without actually lighting a CEL on the dash.

I'd just keep an eye on the battery for now. Maybe throw a charger on it for a while. I thought I might have a bad battery when I had an issue with the low oil light last spring.......now I have a perfectly good BMW battery sitting in the garage. :biggrin

It was the original though so I'm sure it was getting close to the end of its life.

Barry

[Washburn]

Hmmm...Perhaps I should just get the darn thing...??
What's a good source for an affordable BMW code reader/scanner?

[danewilson77]

Hmmm...Perhaps I should just get the darn thing...??
What's a good source for an affordable BMW code reader/scanner?

You can get an actron...which will read all generic obdii and BMW specific codes.

It's what I have. I can use it on all of my vehicles.

Peake can only be used on BMW, but may have more capability.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[MrMaico]

Dane summed it up pretty well. I have a Peake because there are some BMW specific codes that other readers don't recognize.

[kayger12]

Dane summed it up pretty well. I have a Peake because there are some BMW specific codes that other readers don't recognize.

+1. Same here.

[Washburn]

Hmm...so it can only be used in a BMW?

[kayger12]

Hmm...so it can only be used in a BMW?

Yep.

[Washburn]

I just realized i can find out my voltage exactly this way: (has anyone tried this?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImCUQjmMhfM

[MrMaico]

I just realized i can find out my voltage exactly this way: (has anyone tried this?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImCUQjmMhfM

I've never tried going into those hidden ODBII functions but that should work fine to tell you what kind of voltage you're getting with the car off and running. Mine always runs at 14.1 to 14.2 with the car running. That's assuming my gauge is accurate.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?2027-Garmin-ecoRoute-HD-and-Android-gauges-code-reader-for-100

[kpro]

My car does this anytime it sits more than a few days. It just runs all messed up for about 15-30 seconds and smoothes back out. I don't know why. I stopped questioning it because for 3 years now its done it after sitting for a bit. These guys are right on the battery though...it will cause all sorts of weird things to happen when its close to death.

[Washburn]

It relieves me to know that more people experience something similar when the car sits for periods...

Damn I like that Garmin Eco Route HD thing, but them making it work ONLY with certain Garmin GPS models is a rip off.

[Washburn]

I've never tried going into those hidden ODBII functions but that should work fine to tell you what kind of voltage you're getting with the car off and running. Mine always runs at 14.1 to 14.2 with the car running. That's assuming my gauge is accurate.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?2027-Garmin-ecoRoute-HD-and-Android-gauges-code-reader-for-100

So I tested it using the OBC
Car off 12.2 - 12.3
Car on started at 13.9, then slowly crept up to 14 and 14.2 max.

Car started ok this time - perhaps just a TINY shudder ONCE as idle speed started to settle...

So I guess it's not the battery, huh? (although the AAP guy's tool said 'charging needed')

btw OBC function 2.0 is COOL - gauge test - will post a video shortly...

[danewilson77]

Battery should read about 12.5 volts after 1 hour of no load. Your battery may not be "holding" charge.

[MrMaico]

Ya, if you're SURE it's fully charged now it should be at least 12.5 minimum. My old one is holding steady at 12.75. Too bad they would be so expensive to ship, you could have my old one. I have an Interstate 94R in the car now.

[Newjack]

Just throwing this out there as potential useful information. I had a battery problem a few weeks ago. I tried to leave work and my car wouldn't start, but the dash still light up and everything, when I tried to start the car it would make a clicking noise, but would not turn over. Turned out to be a bad battery, one of the cells had died and when I read the voltage it was only 9.6 volts IIRC.

I didn't know this right away and assumed it was a starter problem, so I tried to start my car via dumping the clutch in first and turning the key. Car started but all of my dash lights were on. ABS, CEL, DSC everything. I'm pretty sure it was because my car started with very little battery power and my alternator was freaking out trying to power the car.

So yes I'm sure the CEL light could have been battery related. Also the morning of my battery problem, I had a very rough start.

[danewilson77]

^good data NJ.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Washburn]

OK so I did it again - This time it had gotten a bit cooler and it started at lower voltage (11.2?) - you can see how it changes upon starting:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZx2SYARjw8

and here's the gauge check - just for fun:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPF-NMqJlWU

[MrMaico]

Have you had a charger on it at all or driven it enough to be sure it's fully charged? If so, you definitely need a new battery.

That gauge test is pretty cool, gotta try that sometime. :-)

[danewilson77]

Have you had a charger on it at all or driven it enough to be sure it's fully charged? If so, you definitely need a new battery.

That gauge test is pretty cool, gotta try that sometime. :-)

Driving car will not fully charge battery.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Washburn]

I drove it yesterday about 2 hrs or so...that's it for the last 1.5 weeks...

[telijah]

Since it sat for a while AND the temp changed quickly, I wonder if you ended up with condensation in the fuel somewhere, and it just freaked out on first start? Run that tank dry, fill her up and drop some Techron in there. But I also agree with the battery being a possible culprit, but if so, I would imagine more symptoms. When my battery was going, starting took a little longer. Not more cranks, but the cranks just got slower and slower. IE: It went from "vra vra vra vroom!" to "vra..... vra..... vra... vroom!" to finally "vrrrraaaaa................. vrrrraaaaa.............. ...... ..... click.... click".

[Washburn]

Fuel in the tank is fresh - i filled up right after i started this thread - everything I posted after the initial post has been with a fresh tank of fuel.

[Washburn]

has anyone used a memory keeper thingy when changing the battery so you won't lose all the OBC settings and radio settings?

[telijah]

When I had AAA replace mine this year, he plugged one of those things in, but it didn't work... so I dunno. I lost all my presets AND memory seating oddly enough.

[Washburn]

Thanks

hmm...seems to be random, some people only lost radio presets and clock, and OBC stuff, but not seat memory...
I guess it's not a big deal...If whatever place I get the battery changed has one, they can try it, i guess.

[Matt]

I had the same thing happen to me when the temp dropped for the first time this year.

My code reader told me I had a misfire in cylinders 2 and 6. Ended up swapping coil packs #1 for #2, and #5 for #6. Restarted, reset the codes, and problem was solved.

It happened again about a week ago. I let it run enough to start to warm up the engine, then I shut it off and restarted. Had no problems after that. It seems to happen only when there is a sharp drop in temperature, and there is a lot of moisture in the air (for me, anyway).

[aurelius]

Would be interested to know if those of you experiencing this are also parking outside at night. Do tell.

My older e30 has been outside lately and it too has been running like crap since cool temps arrived.

If so, try Sta-Bil fuel additive all winter. It's formulated to deal with moisture build up in the fuel tank. So claims the product packaging, anyhow.

Making matters worse, ethanol (the biggest racket of all time) absorbs water, to a much greater degree than gasoline. And apparently the 10% ethanol oxygenation in US gas makes things even worse. Check it:

http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html

[Washburn]

I park outside...
I wish I could get E-free gas!!!

[aurelius]

http://pure-gas.org/

[Washburn]

Thanks
unfortunately none of the Shell stations in my area sell E-free gas...
Wonder how Exxon gas is..there's one 93 oct E-free near me...

[MrMaico]

I run ethanol free premium and park in a garage. Around here the mid-grade is the only one that contains ethanol.

[MrMaico]

I found some more info about this issue of running rough after having run the engine briefly earlier......

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=731043

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1758265

Caused by a flooded engine and it sounds like we were lucky to get it started. Some people have to pull the plugs and clean or replace them.

[Washburn]

Thanks...
it didn't happen again, but if it does I/we will know what probably caused it...

Thanks for the links, sir.

[Nomar06]

started rough, shook, and there was some type of knocking sound with the shaking, as if it idled really slow or something...then the RPMs jumped up and down a bit and then started to drop and then the SES and EML lights came on, and I turned car off - all this was in about 25 sec's or so.

I had the same type of symptoms happen today after leaving the gym. Turned the car on, the radio was on and I heard/felt the car moving. Turned the radio down and was like WTF? I pushed in the clutch pedal and the shaking went away. Not sure if it stopped due to time passing or me pushing the clutch pedal. Car drove just fine before and after. Sat out in the parking lot for an hour. No codes seen.

Guess I will be checking the batt and plugs like what has been mentioned.