Help! BMW 330 ZHP randomly stalls out.

[Linh]

Everyone,

I've had the car for almost a month now and had the ZHP randomly stall out on me about 3-4 times now. It always happens in 1st gear driving around parking lots and once at a gas station in neutral. Just after filling it up, I cranked the car and gave it a slight rev in rpms and the car suddenly stalls out. The car would crank fine every time afterward when it happens though.

The other times (parking lots) is when I would engage 1st gear, it would stall when I give it a little throttle. I'm really curious as what would cause this to happen? Could it be a ICV? DISA? torn intake boots? Or worst, a ECU problem?

[ZSP-Mafia]

No codes yet? This sounds exactly like what happened to my car, right before it threw a code for a bad camshaft position sensor.

[Linh]

Nope, no codes.

[Tampa330i]

Mine stalled at first too, maybe 3 times it happened. Always when accelerating from a stopped position. I have no idea what was causing it, but it stopped and hasn't done it again. I suspected it had something to do with sitting on a lot.

[kayger12]

Checking the disa, intake boot, and cleaning your icv are good places to start. Always cheaper to check and clean first.

If your CPS is crapping out, hopefully it throws a code for you before long.

Also, don't overlook your vanos. My 325 had the same issue- it would sometimes bog down and come close to stalling when I would give it just a little gas (and would stall out in similar circumstances with the A/C on). Diagnosed as vanos and never happened again after the vanos rebuild.

[danewilson77]

+1 on the icv cleaning. Better just buy an upper and lower intake boot too, and inspect the disa as mentioned by the man.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248979

Give us a brief maintenance history pls....

[Linh]

50k Unknown
45k 2nd Oil service
31k Electronic fuel pump in fuel tank permanent failure
30k Oil level/ oil condition sensor permanent failure
29k Inspection 1
14k Wiper switch loose
14k Ignition coils fail (Bremi) Recalled
13k 1st Engine oil change
5k Recode light switch center on

Thats all I know about the car's history maintenance wise.

Besides the Vanos hesitation/lag around 2.5-3k rpms, it runs good and smooth.

I should probably also add that there has been 2-3 times when the car would not start on the first try. Usually in the morning before going to work.

[danewilson77]

What have you done...?

Maintenance wise?

[Linh]

Since I had it, I've changed:

Rear Rotor/pad/sensors
Rear diff fluid Mobile 1
Redline MTL
Brake DOT4 fluid
Oil 0w40 Mobile 1
Cabin air filter

The air filter still looked clean, so I didn't replace it yet.

[danewilson77]

I am assuming the intake filter got cleaned during second oil service. Lets hope so.

Anyways.....I recommend doing the following. Should cost around 30 bux, and will take 1.5 hours (max)


Parts/materials neeeded:

1. Intake filter (you can skip if you think it is prudent).
2. Upper and lower intake boot.
3. Carb cleaner.
4. MAF sensor cleaner.

1. Remove intake.
2. Remove upper and lower intake boots. You will probably have to cut the lower one off due to orientation of hose clamp.
3. Inspect DISA by unplugging and removing two torx. Check to ensure gasket is in good condition, and check spring feature of flapper valve. When you pull it out...it should be in mid position. When re-installing, place a super thin coat on non-hardening permatex to the gasket.
4. Make you way down to and remove the ICV. Once you have pulled it.....hold it in your hand and act like your revving a motorcycle. There should be freedom of rotation within the tapered vlave itself. You should hear it click, click, click.
5. Liberally spray carb cleaner into it, to remove all muck and mung.
6. Clean MAF sensor with cleaner. Follow directions.
7. Reassemble.

This will eliminate alot of things.

Make sure to take your time and dhu eeeeeeeeet right.

[nk_zhp]

Back when I had my non ZHP 330i I had a problem with the engine stalling out when I would approach stop lights, as if the RPM dropped and never got picked up by the idle. Turns out later there was a TSB on this topic and they often bumped up the idle speed just by 50-100 RPM to resolve the issue. My lease ended on that car before I had a chance to fix it, however going through the records of my current ZHP I seem to recall that item being done. I will check tonight since I don't have the printout here at work.

[Linh]

I am assuming the intake filter got cleaned during second oil service. Lets hope so.

Anyways.....I recommend doing the following. Should cost around 30 bux, and will take 1.5 hours (max)


Parts/materials neeeded:

1. Intake filter (you can skip if you think it is prudent).
2. Upper and lower intake boot.
3. Carb cleaner.
4. MAF sensor cleaner.

1. Remove intake.
2. Remove upper and lower intake boots. You will prolly have to cut the lower one off due to orientation of hose clamp.
3. Inspect DISA by unplugging and removing two torx. Check to ensure gasket is in good condition, and check spring feature of flapper valve. When you pull it out...it should be in mid position. When re-installing, place a super thin coat on non-hardening permatex to the gasket.
4. Make you way down to and remove the ICV. Once you have pulled it.....hold it in your hand and act like your revving a motorcycle. There should be freedom of rotation within the tapered vlave itself. You should hear it click, click, click.
5. Liberally spray carb cleaner into it, to remove all muck and mung.
6. Clean MAF sensor with cleaner. Follow directions.
7. Reassemble.

This will eliminate alot of things.

Make sure to take your time and dhu eeeeeeeeet right.

I'm guess the lower/upper intake boots should be bought from the dealership? Who has the best pricing on these?

[Linh]

Back when I had my non ZHP 330i I had a problem with the engine stalling out when I would approach stop lights, as if the RPM dropped and never got picked up by the idle. Turns out later there was a TSB on this topic and they often bumped up the idle speed just by 50-100 RPM to resolve the issue. My lease ended on that car before I had a chance to fix it, however going through the records of my current ZHP I seem to recall that item being done. I will check tonight since I don't have the printout here at work.

I've read a few post on BF.c and some people did mention this, but they weren't to deep into detail as what they had done.

Hope it isn't the problem though. . .

Trying not to go the dealership for anything but certain oem replacement parts.

[danewilson77]

I'm guess the lower/upper intake boots should be bought from the dealership? Who has the best pricing on these?

They are not that expensive at the dealer if I remember correctly. Maybe 12 bux each.....or you can get em at ecs or tischer.

[Mtnman]

you can order upper and lower boots online. they are simple little parts, and cheap. Or you can get one from stett performace for like $150 bucks like me. It had to add at least 13 horsepower, cause its smoothwalled! lol. frieken waste of $....but it does look keeool.

[danewilson77]

Yeah....Just call BMW for a price on upper and lower intake boot.

You will need part 3 and part 6. P/N's provided in link....

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/228.png

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=EV53&mospid=47725&btnr=13_0905&hg=13&fg=15

ECS links...........

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/13541438761/

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/13541438759/

Looks like total price may be closer to 50 bux. I hadn't remembered the one boot being $28......but there ya go.

[Linh]

Alright, thanks Dane for the p/n's.

Will be going to semi local dealership and see their price. Hopefully they could match price if needed.

[Mtnman]

And have fun with part 6. Taking it out is like a 2 knuckle breaker, but putting the new one in is like a 5 five knuckle breaker. What a bitch that one was. not really hard, just a bitch to align and get to.

[az3579]

Remember, if you're a CCA member you can get a discount from the dealer. Just provide your card/member #.

[nk_zhp]

Guys may I also throw out a few vendors that often have rock bottom prices. rmeuropean.com and autohausaz.com

[MrMaico]

50k Unknown
45k 2nd Oil service
31k Electronic fuel pump in fuel tank permanent failure
30k Oil level/ oil condition sensor permanent failure
29k Inspection 1
14k Wiper switch loose
14k Ignition coils fail (Bremi) Recalled
13k 1st Engine oil change
5k Recode light switch center on

Thats all I know about the car's history maintenance wise.

Besides the Vanos hesitation/lag around 2.5-3k rpms, it runs good and smooth.

I should probably also add that there has been 2-3 times when the car would not start on the first try. Usually in the morning before going to work.

I thought I remembered something about a software update for a stalling issue but after doing a little searching it looks like that was for earlier years....2001 mainly.

You mention a hesitation between 2500 and 3000.....does it feel like a miss under acceleration in the higher gears? Mine was doing that and everyone tried to tell me it was Vanos so I rebuilt it and it made no difference. I had also read that there was a software update to fix this issue. I took my car to an indy that updated me to the latest software version and it cured it completely.

Here's the thread that convinced me to try the software update....

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=833003

Here's the thread where people tried to tell me it was Vanos. See my post #49....

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120971

I think if I were you and your "Vanos" problem is the miss like I mention I would have either a dealer or indy with the capability to do software updates to update you to the latest version. Maybe you'll get lucky and it will help with your stalling issue also.

Good luck....Barry

[MrMaico]

Back when I had my non ZHP 330i I had a problem with the engine stalling out when I would approach stop lights, as if the RPM dropped and never got picked up by the idle. Turns out later there was a TSB on this topic and they often bumped up the idle speed just by 50-100 RPM to resolve the issue. My lease ended on that car before I had a chance to fix it, however going through the records of my current ZHP I seem to recall that item being done. I will check tonight since I don't have the printout here at work.

It looks like I may be wrong in thinking the s/w update for the stalling problem was on the older cars. Either way, an update is probably a good idea along with replacing the boots and cleaning the ICV like Dane mentions.

[Linh]

The lag really happens only in 2.5-3k range. Nothing noticable in the higher rpms. Also the problem is really pronounced in 3rd gear. Its almost a lag/jerk, ex: like learning how to drive manual the first time.

Thanks, this is something I will to look into eventually.

[MrMaico]

The lag really happens only in 2.5-3k range. Nothing noticable in the higher rpms. Also the problem is really pronounced in 3rd gear. Its almost a lag/jerk, ex: like learning how to drive manual the first time.

Thanks, this is something I will to look into eventually.

Yup, higher gears is what I mentioned not higher rpms. Mine was right between 2800 and 3000 rpm, after 3000 it was fine. If that's how yours is I'd bet money it's software and not Vanos. This is a quote from Mike Miller (tech editor for BMWCCA and Bimmer magazine) when I asked him if it might be Vanos.... "Your VANOS unit is highly likely to be fine. That is about the most overblown thing on the Internet today, right after what Miley Cirus did yesterday"

[Linh]

Okay, any idea how much it would cost for a software update from the stealership?

[danewilson77]

Probably charge you for an hour worth of labor. You will also need to tell them which software update you want.

[nk_zhp]

Do you have more than dealer in your area? If so you might want to make an appointment and then later check the pricing with others see if they can beat it. It's like one time they were trying to charge me 40 bucks to reset the oil light, which I did in less than 10 seconds for free. I get it, we all need to pay bills and dealers have them too.

[MrMaico]

Okay, any idea how much it would cost for a software update from the stealership?

I paid $160 (at an indy shop) but had them do a few other things, an hour sounds about right though. They also changed the coding so that I can roll UP all my windows with the remote, nice! Best bet is to tell them you just want to be updated to the latest s/w version available. I've never been able to confirm that the numbers quoted in those threads were correct. Mike Miller told me that the one number that gets mentioned most, SIB 12 08 05 is for something on an Xi. That's why I say your best bet is just to ask for the latest s/w. That's what cured my miss, it was instantly noticeable as soon as I got it into 3rd gear and 2800 rpm.

Barry

[Linh]

Called the dealership and they are charging me 2 hours of labor ($270ish) for the software update. Schedule for next Thursday. I was hoping they could do it in 1 hour.

[danewilson77]

What a raping. Please give all details on this when done. Thanks

[Linh]

I will definitely keep you guys posted after I get it done.

[nk_zhp]

I might have been wrong about them doing the RPM raise. Here's what I found in my records.


20133 01 264820 282212 02/09/2006 03/07/2006 N/A 18,447 0012100200 SIB #12-13-05 RECALL 05E-A01 BREMI IGN COILS REPLACEMENT

20133 01 264810 282212 02/09/2006 03/07/2006 N/A 18,447 1011004700 Cold start drop in engine speed

It looks like the Bremi recall might have been how they fixed the cold speed drop. Do you know if your car went through the recall?

[MrMaico]

Called the dealership and they are charging me 2 hours of labor ($270ish) for the software update. Schedule for next Thursday. I was hoping they could do it in 1 hour.

Hopefully that will take care of both your issues and make the price a little less painful. What year is your car? It seems like every time I read of someone curing the miss with the s/w update it's on a ZHP. Can't recall anyone with a regular 330 needing it but I could be wrong.

[pyreguy]

The first thing my buddies at the local german garage did when I showed them the car was hook it up to update the software. I had no idea it needed that, but that's why I like them. They take really good care of my cars.

[Linh]

I might have been wrong about them doing the RPM raise. Here's what I found in my records.


20133 01 264820 282212 02/09/2006 03/07/2006 N/A 18,447 0012100200 SIB #12-13-05 RECALL 05E-A01 BREMI IGN COILS REPLACEMENT

20133 01 264810 282212 02/09/2006 03/07/2006 N/A 18,447 1011004700 Cold start drop in engine speed

It looks like the Bremi recall might have been how they fixed the cold speed drop. Do you know if your car went through the recall?

Yes, the Bremi recall has been done to the car according to the dealership's info.

I don't hear a lot of 330's models with software problems but, it seems the zhp has them.

[shadowpuck]

yes - zhp equipped cars have different software.....there were more than a couple of software updates as i recall.
if your car hasn't had the software updates definitely get them done.

if you have a trusted service advisor at a dealership start there, or a really good indy shop.
there's been discussion of this on the BMW Club boards - also check there. i believe the SIB is 12 06 06.

[MrMaico]

Ok, so I just spent a couple of hours reading threads from the search terms 'zhp stalling'...

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.bimmerfest.com+code+276D&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=MkX&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&q=site:www.bimmerfest.com+zhp+stalling&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=9bef8cda26d1a6ec

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Aforum.e46fanatics.com+eide+bmw&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&source=hp&q=site:forum.e46fanatics.com+zhp+stalling&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=9bef8cda26d1a6ec

and it seems there was a pretty common problem with stalling/rough-fluctuating idle on the ZHP in 03-04. Most of the threads just talk about the problem but not many reports of the actual fix. There was talk of s/w version #39 (I think it's 40.something now) so hopefully the newer s/w fixed it. This is the longest thread I found.....

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48403

See post 93, it looks like the updated coils which you already have, and the s/w update fixed his problems. Hopefully that's what you need as well.

Several people in those threads mention issues right after refueling. The first summer I had my car maybe 3 or 4 times right after fueling when I started the car it would idle rough and I'd just give it a little throttle (1200 rpm or so) and it would clear up within seconds. This past summer after rebuilding the Vanos and getting the s/w updated it only happened one time. Not sure if something I did fixed it or it was just coincidence but it's odd that it would ONLY happen after a quick stop to gas up. Others that mentioned it seemed like theirs were worse than mine because they would have issues even after leaving the gas station, it would idle rough or stall.

Barry

[Linh]

Okay, hopefully the dealership will know what kind of software (most recent update) will be needed for the ZHP.

I'm trying to think other things I could get them to do for 2 hours worth of labor. Check subframe?

[MrMaico]

Okay, hopefully the dealership will know what kind of software (most recent update) will be needed for the ZHP.

I'm trying to think other things I could get them to do for 2 hours worth of labor. Check subframe?

Shouldn't be a problem with s/w version, I was told it's been a couple of years since the last one.

You can have them do things like turning on or off daytime running lights or changing key memory options such as whether or not your doors auto-lock at 5 mph. Quite a few different options for that stuff.....

http://e38.org/B090398_Att2_CKMSet.PDF (http://e38.org/B090398_Att2_CKMSet.PDF)

I'd assume anything else they do though they are going to charge extra for.

[MrMaico]

Called the dealership and they are charging me 2 hours of labor ($270ish) for the software update. Schedule for next Thursday. I was hoping they could do it in 1 hour.

Any good news?

[Linh]

Good news and bad news.

Bad news is that I didn't get software updated yet.

Good news is I found an indy near my house that will do the software update for about 35% less than what the dealer is charging. Will need to wait for their tech guy to come from vacation though. Until then I'm going to be cleaning the icv and replacing the lower intake boot.

[MrMaico]

Good news and bad news.

Bad news is that I didn't get software updated yet.

Good news is I found an indy near my house that will do the software update for about 35% less than what the dealer is charging. Will need to wait for their tech guy to come from vacation though. Until then I'm going to be cleaning the icv and replacing the lower intake boot.

Great, I'm sure it's nice to know you have an alternative to dealer prices at least. Having the ICV and boot replaced beforehand will at least allow you to scratch that off the list of potential causes for your idle issue. Let us know how things work out.

Here are some DIYs I have saved that should help......

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323335
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5641301#post5641301
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411056
http://www.bmw330ci.net/maintenance/tubeelbow.php

Barry

[Linh]

Thanks much Barry, these will be very useful!

[Linh]

I was doing some research and ran into a post that mention the TSB on the 4k rpm power dip.

The vin# ranges KM08006 – KM09068 (mines KM030xx).

Here's the thread I found the info:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=695154

[MrMaico]

I think you might be confusing that TSB/recall, that was just to reprogram the DME because it was sometimes missing or not storing trouble codes that would come up, with the one for the 4000 power dip.

The one for the 4000 power dip I have never seen a vin code range shown for it. That was only done on a customer complaint basis and requires the DME to be sent to Jersey which sucks because it would sure be nice if any dealer could do it. When I first got my car I don't think it did it but now I will sometimes feel it, sometimes not, but it's not real noticeable on mine. Some people make it sound like theirs is much more abrupt than what I feel. Not having a dealer nearby would make it a major pain in the butt for me to get it done.

http://www.linquist.net/motorsports/bmw/sib121705.txt

[Linh]

Haha, Oh okay. . . Thanks for clearing that up. So do you think all zhp ecu's we're effected?

I'm not sure If I feel the power dip on mine, but I will check when going for a drive.

[bmwtroll]

I know this isn't a very technical response to your problem, but I had a similar problem within 3 months of getting my ZHP brand new. Dealer could never diagnose the problem, but one of the techs thought maybe it was the gas. I started shopping around for gas with the lowest ethanol content and haven't had the problem in over four years now...don't know why and it does cost a little more at the pump...:dunno

[danewilson77]

And...in review....you do not have an ses light?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[Linh]

Nope, no SES lights. . . Hmmm Dane, you feel any power dip around 4k?

[danewilson77]

Seems like theres a lil bit o lag..

[Kudos]

I've got some issue as well. Today, it was frickin cold (0* F) and my car started and then revved and then sputtered and died. I got it going right away again and just held the rpms at like 1000 and then eased off the throttle and it was fine. I'll be swapping the vanos in the spring, but i'll get software update if i don't have the new one yet in a few weeks. Stay tuned!

[MrMaico]

Any updates???

[Kudos]

My problem ended up being a sticking solenoid on the fuel pump. $500 later it was fixed, everything is good in the world.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Kudos, kudos. Glad it's fixed. And glad the world is right with you.

[danewilson77]

My problem ended up being a sticking solenoid on the fuel pump. $500 later it was fixed, everything is good in the world.

Thats a new one. Will commit to memory. What was the P/N they replaced?

[Kudos]

Not sure what P/N. I had the entire pump replaced. At first i thought it was my CCV causing the cold stall issues, so i swapped that out, only to have my fuel pump die a week later. $1200 in 2 weeks in parts and labor. this girl is getting more expensive than a latenight street girl.

At least i got the stuff replaced with dealer parts at cost +20% discount.

[danewilson77]

ok....good deal. I don't think you can get the solonoid seperately is why I asked.

Glad she's purring.......

[billschusteriv]

Glad to hear you are off to the races again. Sorry to hear you are putting some $ into the ride. It happens from time to time. Since I buy higher mileage vehicles, it happens more often than not.

For big jobs (like my engine swap), I like to lean on my indy mechanic alot. We were just discussing the fuel pump issue since I had one go out on my e30 around 225k-250k miles on the way to work and do not want to be stranded again.

He said a good trick with respect to the fuel pump is to lift up the rear seat (pull up sharply at the front of the rear seat) and look for the access panel under the passenger side. Then remove the three screws (I'm assuming the screw driver in our tool kit will work) holding the access panel down. Underneath the access panel you should see some wires and the top of the pump. A good thump with a gloved fist (or similar - just no hammers :biggrin ) will normally get the pump going one more time and allow you to get home.

[RITmusic2k]

So I took my car to the dealer today to get my car/key memory settings adjusted, and while I was there I asked them to verify whether I had the latest DME revision. I didn't mention that I was asking because of my hesitation / idle issue, since I was doing this over a lunch break and didn't want to risk spending a lot of time going back and forth on diagnostics. When I got the car back they said I had the newest version and that it's really rare for updates to exist.

For every instance I can find online, the people who owned ZHPs and experienced my exact symptoms had their problems resolved after a software flash; none of them ended up being hardware problems. So what do you guys think is more likely:

(1) I do have the newest DME revision and my symptoms mimic the software problem but are actually due to a mechanical flaw, or (2) the dealer didn't check and just told me something to shut me up since I wasn't complaining about a specific problem?

[danewilson77]

And you have no ses light?

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[RITmusic2k]

No dashboard lights, and my scangauge reports no current or recent codes & ready to pass emissions.