DIY: Starter Replacement - Not as horrible as it seems doityourself

[GT172I]

Undertook this project because of symptoms described here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?4976-Grinding-Noise-at-Start-up&p=114271#post114271).

So I got the starter swapped out with way less of a headache than I expected. Spent two nights after work ~3hrs each including the 30 mins it takes to get the thing up on jack stands and properly secured. Sorry there are a lot less pictures than planned since my better half took the camera out of town forcing me to use my phone for the important things like recording where wires went etc.

So to start this is on a 2004 330Ci 6MT:
-Jack car up and safely secure it before crawling underneath and wrenching on stuff
-Disconnect battery in trunk
-Remove front plastic splash guard (7 phillips screws)
-Remove the aluminum belly brace (8 bolts 16mm I think)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4NV8dHNNI6A/TrHzkUgnoXI/AAAAAAAABAc/yxiEyAz9W8g/s640/IMG_20111031_230221.jpg
*This is all I had to remove* - Didn't have to do anything from the top like the DIY's said since I could get both bolts from below using the contraption I'll describe below. Discovered this after already removing the cabin filter and housing of course. :facepalm

-It will look like this up where you're going to be poking around so clean it off. (view looking up at drivers side of tranny with rear of car to right)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lDr-ity4kjQ/TrH0EiM8yAI/AAAAAAAABBE/jKYKkupGcdA/s640/IMG_20111101_221629.jpg
-Should undo that hose guide (top middle of pic) to move the hose a little more out of the way.
-Same with the thin semi-rigid fuel line on the same support
-Remove the nut (lower middle of pic) to get the vacuum canister out of the way since the starter is directly behind it
-Now you have eyes on the starter and the real fun can begin
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KGFGoHyccvc/TrHyw5MqNoI/AAAAAAAAA_c/JuRIGiC4VGc/s640/IMG_20111031_225329.jpg

-Just feel around up there so you can get a sense of where things are and supposed to go since the bolt removal is almost entirely by feel.
-Build your extension & u-joint contraption:
_____-For the lower bolt it's much easier and you can get away with about a foot and a half of wobbly extensions (I used E12 socket-3 inch-Ujoint-6inch wobble-10in wobble)
_____-For the upper I used a bit more to get up the transmission tunnel, over towards the center, and up to the interface where the bolt is. E12 socket-3inch-U-joint-6inch straight-U-joint-6inch wobble-10inch wobble-ratchet-big box end wrench for torque) You'll have to guide it as it'll be long and floppy going into the tight space :shifty (yes I know how that sounds...)

-Once broken loose the bolts should come out relative easily
-Now go back up to the starter side and grab the starter and wiggle it loose (there's still a guide pin holding it on)
-You'll have to move the vacuum canister around if you didn't remove it but there's room to maneuver with it loose.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0hBwS72wL54/TrHzE-4okOI/AAAAAAAAA_0/trZ6wvvNH6w/s640/IMG_20111031_225412.jpg

-Easier to get the wires off if you twist the starter vertical so the posts are facing down and can use a socket to loosen the connections.

Took a few more pics so I knew where the wires went but really isn't tricky at all. There are three different sized posts on the starter solenoid:
-The largest has two heavy gauge wires both with red coverings on the connectors
-The medium is the one on the bottom and is a small ~18ga black wire with a yellow maybe white stripe
-The smallest post is a plain black wire coming from the same loom as the one going to the medium post and is on the top side of the solenoid

-Once you've got the wires disconnected you can finangle the starter out of that cavity.

Check the starter/tranny for the guide pin as you'll need to reuse it with the new starter. Will probably also help to lightly sand/at least clean the pin so it goes onto the new starter easily as it'll be a pain later.

Pics via phone jammed up in the hole and rotated to fit.
Guide pin goes in the top right hole. Be sure not to drop it in the open hole into the transmission! I didn't do this but could see how it would be easy to do.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oaHM5Tdt0_c/TrHz1StrDOI/AAAAAAAABA0/j8jwIfMMnbg/s512/IMG_20111101_182045.jpg

Check out your flywheel teeth
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zV1ecXPWLsc/TrHz9cdvJjI/AAAAAAAABA8/qjp9-F6_okQ/s640/IMG_20111101_182113.jpg

-Reassemble, reconnect battery and give it a try before you finish buttoning everything up and lowering car.
-Finish buttoning everything up and lower car
-Have a beer :ineedabeer

[danewilson77]

That is awesome. Makes this headache seem...."not as bad"

Well done and thanks for the contribution.

[Hornung418]

Great contribution! The intake manifold is definitely a bitch to get off if you haven't done it before! Way to think around convention! Mad props.

Courtesy of Gingerbread...

[kayger12]

Major kudos.

Great job.

[Au2bahn]

good stuff. Did you have to move the tranny down at all?

[GT172I]

good stuff. Did you have to move the tranny down at all?

Nope, the rear support gets a little in the way of the extra long extension but solved that with the second U-joint to bring it down and out of the tunnel before it hits that back transmission brace. It's a little tight up top but there's definitely enough room between the transmission and the tunnel to get the sockets, joints and extensions in there up to the bolt. You'll have to guide the socket onto the torx bolt head by reaching over the starter

[echo46]

Wow, great write up, I'm not as intimated as I was before. Goods pics even with phone camera. By the way, how does one determine which starter to purchase i.e. Threaded or non threaded.

[GT172I]

From my research it seems that this is the same starter that's used on the e36's and a few others as well and most e46's will have the threaded one. Found an e46 poll thread somewhere and of the ~10-15 people that had replaced their starters all of them were threaded. Further researching led me to believe that the unthreaded was simply the older model and could easily be swapped with the threaded one (just have to the change bolts too) - but don't quote me on that. I was going to go that route and hope for the best when I decided to just actually take a look in the engine bay and see if I could see anything useful. Sure enough, you can actually see the rear of the starter flange if you have a flashlight and look between back right corner of the engine and the master cylinder just above the intake boot. I'll try to take a picture of the area I'm talking about tonight. You should be able to make out one of the bolts (believe it's the upper one) and about 2-3 threads protruding from the flange. Just hope for no nuts because then I don't know what you'll do.

[shadowpuck]

starter is failing on my zhp. i think the ignition switch was also going out as i would sometimes have a no crank situation. since replacing the switch the car has started every time, but is making a noise right upon startup. tested the secondary air pump and that's not it, so leaves the starter as the likely suspect.

will be doing this next weekend - thank you for the writeup.

[danewilson77]

Bump for Joop.

[JupiterBMW]

Thanks Dane... Didn't see the bump, but found the DIY nevertheless. Of course, found it after already removing airbox lid and cabin filter assembly... Well, jacking the car up now... :facepalm

[danewilson77]

Thanks Dane... Didn't see the bump, but found the DIY nevertheless. Of course, found it after already removing airbox lid and cabin filter assembly... Well, jacking the car up now... :facepalm

Yeah.....I may have misspoke on the phone....hehe.

Just one more opportunity for you to clean those hard to get to area's.......lmao.

[JupiterBMW]

Yeah.....I may have misspoke on the phone....hehe.

Just one more opportunity for you to clean those hard to get to area's.......lmao.

Yeah, no worries though. Intake is back in, cabin filter housing will take 3 minutes at most. Also, cross brace is out. Letting the car cool before proceeding though. :) Also took the time to finally pick up a set of external torx sockets. Not cheap, but with this car, a necessity.

[JupiterBMW]

For the upper I used a bit more to get up the transmission tunnel, over towards the center, and up to the interface where the bolt is. E12 socket-3inch-U-joint-6inch straight-U-joint-6inch wobble-10inch wobble-ratchet-big box end wrench for torque) You'll have to guide it as it'll be long and floppy going into the tight space :shifty (yes I know how that sounds...)


At this stage... Can't stop laughing, which makes it hard to guide the long floppy... :rofl

[JupiterBMW]

Bolts out, connections undone, starter will not come free... Guide Pin is being a little douche... Will keep tapping and wiggling... :shifty

[JupiterBMW]

This f'ing guide pin is kicking my ass... :facepalm

[wsmeyer]

This is one of those times when a mallet just won't do. You need the high frequency vibration of good old metal on metal

[JupiterBMW]

Oh I'm already well past that... Pulling out the pry bar... Something tells me the guide pin will be getting removed....

[JupiterBMW]

Well I finally won.... Bastard guide pin is steel, while everything else is aluminum, so a little corrosion had set in, freezing it up. Some sanding and filing to smooth it and then some copper never seize will prevent this for the future. :)

8685

8686

8687

[JupiterBMW]

Ok, finally done. Took a little longer than planned due to the guide pin, but all's good now. Fires right up! :thumbsup

[GT172I]

Just saw your PM, glad you got it loose. Mine wasn't quite that bad but did take a little sanding to coerce it back into the hole on the new starter. Wouldn't be a BMW DIY without something going slightly awry...

Well done!

:applause

[LivesNearCostco]

Jupe, great photos of the (rusty) pin in place. This gives me confidence I can replace my starter when the time comes. It's been okay so far but I don't know if it's original or not, and my FSR just failed so that might be a sign to be wary.

[kayger12]

Great work, Joop.

Not looking forward to this job when it's my turn at the plate.

Sent from the Last Next Best Thing.

[danewilson77]

great work, joop.

Not looking forward to this job when it's my turn at the plate.

Sent from the last next best thing.

+1

htc dna on tt4 beta, williamsburg, va

[JupiterBMW]

Honestly, its really not a horrible job. My biggest mistake, and its kind of silly at that, is that I put the car up too high on jackstands, not realizing the starter was pretty far up on the tranny. So, I was constantly reaching to my limits laying under the car. Aside from that, I didn't have the spray shield, so all I really needed to take off was the cross brace.

Good luck to all of you that have to handle this in the future!

[Dave_B]

Congrats on getting it done. I too had the stuck "bitch pin" on mine. However I was doing the job from the top so I could wiggle and pull a little easier and ended up putting a small flat head in the crack to help while I wiggled.

IMO, doing the job from the top is MUCH easier than the bottom. No long floppy's to worry about here. :)

[JupiterBMW]

Congrats on getting it done. I too had the stuck "bitch pin" on mine. However I was doing the job from the top so I could wiggle and pull a little easier and ended up putting a small flat head in the crack to help while I wiggled.

IMO, doing the job from the top is MUCH easier than the bottom. No long floppy's to worry about here. :)

Perhaps, but you had to take waaaay more off to access from the top. I wasn't about to do that if I didn't have to.

[Dave_B]

Why not? It's not difficult things. No getting under the car, or getting it on stands. No put together extensions. It's wicked simple.

[JupiterBMW]

I got to lay down for my whole job. :rofl

[Dave_B]

LOL, touche.

Personally I can't stand laying down to do the job. Makes it harder to crawl out to get my beer. :)

[JupiterBMW]

Dude, you need a creeper. I'd never do anything without a creeper or a little stool on wheels... So, fair enough, no creeper, laying down would suck... As for me, I started the job at 10am, too early for beer.

[Dave_B]

I'm a little "spoiled"

For many years I had access to my fathers 4 bay shop. So getting on the ground while it isn't bad, isn't preferred for me.

I've got a creeper, I just prefer if possible to not have to jack the car and get under it. :)

Beer before 10 is too early? Since when? I keed I keed.

[Hornung418]

Great work, Joop.

Not looking forward to this job when it's my turn at the plate.

Sent from the Last Next Best Thing.

Paid a shop to do mine. Woukdnt disengage from the flywheel after starting. Total for replacement and labor was something like $180.

From a GS3, this was sent.

[kayger12]

Paid a shop to do mine. Woukdnt disengage from the flywheel after starting. Total for replacement and labor was something like $180.

From a GS3, this was sent.

Well spent money in my book.

Sent from the Last Next Best Thing.

[LivesNearCostco]

I'm working on replacing the starter now. This DIY has been helpful. It looks like my starter might be missing one of the E-torx bolts that holds it in. Need to explore more to see if it's missing and I used the clutch replacement DIY by lkstaack to figure out which E-torx bolt goes where so I know which replacement to order. If the BMW dealership parts counters aren't open today, I'll have to get a generic M10 bolt at the parts or home improvement store. Right now I'm trying to get starter out from the top since I'm replacing the heater hoses anyway. But am prepared to also remove reinforcement plate and go at it from the bottom if needed.

Edit/Update: Looks like false alarm on the missing torx bolt, it appears to be there and the empty hole I was feeling is where the locating dowel goes. But it's kicking my ass trying to loosen them from above. I can get the 3/8" box wrench on the lower bolt and put a 19mm socket over the top for leverage but it slipped off and I don't want to round off the torx head. Time to take off the reinforcement plate. On the plus side, I got all 3 old heater hoses off and am about to replace the one power steering hose (reservoir to pump) that I haven't already replaced.

[Dave1027]

If it's the top e-torx bolt, evidently it's easy work with a 3/8 gearwrench with the swivel head.

[LivesNearCostco]

I think the wire color guide below is wrong. Yes the two big red cables go to the big terminal (13mm wrench). The medium black wire one does go to the medium stud on the bottom (10mm wrench) but it's plain black. The smallest wire has the yellow or white stripe and goes to the small stud (8mm wrench). I tried to pull my starter out with the red cables attached and no bueno. But once I took the red cables off it was easy. Then I turned the wire terminals downward and detached the small and medium wire from below. Just put new starter in area, re-attached small and medium wires and couldn't remember which goes where! So came back to read this DIY, and watched a YouTube video and looked at this picture on the E46 Fanatics starter replacement DIY (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=732743) to see which black wire goes where.

Here's the photo: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8163/dsc02878z.th.jpg

Here's the YouTube video (with engine removed from car for easier viewing):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMc32dWV-LY

Note that I did not have to move the vacuum canister out of the way. It appears mine is somewhere else--I think I once saw it at the back of the car to the right (passenger) side of the spare tire well behind a covering plate.

Edit: New starter in and power steering hose (reservoir to pump) replaced. Trying to figure out which pieces have to go back before test cranking starter. Keep pausing for things.... start 500-piece puzzle with daughter, eat lunch, continue puzzle by myself, replace 3 heater hoses, drain PS fluid reservoir, drink some beer, remove old starter, put new starter in, run to grocery store, late dinner with more beer, etc. It's kind of cold (36F) outside but garage is not too bad as long as I keep the door closed.



Took a few more pics so I knew where the wires went but really isn't tricky at all. There are three different sized posts on the starter solenoid:
-The largest has two heavy gauge wires both with red coverings on the connectors
-The medium is the one on the bottom and is a small ~18ga black wire with a yellow maybe white stripe
-The smallest post is a plain black wire coming from the same loom as the one going to the medium post and is on the top side of the solenoid

[LivesNearCostco]

A big THANK YOU to GT172i for this DIY writeup. My car now starts up faster. Only started it 4 times since completing the replacement (first time with no MAF, disconnected brake booster hose, etc.) but so far so good. Some comments...


Having tried from both above and below (in one day) I say it's easier to do it from below, as long as you can put together the right combination of 3/8" extensions.
Even though the old starter only misfired about every 15 tries, the new starter definitely starts the car faster.
I couldn't remove starter until two big red wires were removed from big terminal. But couldn't remove both black wires until starter was out (so can turn terminals up or down). Maybe can reach lower medium terminal from below and upper small terminal from above with starter in the bell housing... maybe.
Existing starter had 13mm nut on big terminal (8/10/13mm); replacement Bosch has 12mm nut (8/10/12mm)
Got to top Torx bolt from above with 3/8" wrench to break free then 10mm ratcheting to loosen and tighten. Not sure if it would work on lower Torx bolt--might need a flex-head ratcheting wrench for that one (ideally 3/8"). I put a 19mm deep socket with 5" long 1/2" extension over the 3/8" wrench to break top bolt free.
Didn't see vacuum/EVAP canister below starter; I think it's in the back on my car
The multi-extension + wobble adapter (or U-joint) + E12 socket worked like a charm on lower Torx bolt. I could get it near, but not onto, the upper Torx bolt. Maybe I didn't have the U-joint in the right place. Or maybe I needed to lower the rear of the transmission a tiny bit. Or maybe it's mud caked under the sound insulation felt in my transmission tunnel?
My dowel wasn't corroded much. Tried prybar from bottom pushing solenoid (levered against transmission) and that didn't work too well, but wiggling the starter back and forth got old one off and new one on. I did put anti-seize on the dowel. New (reman) starter has label on it saying "Do not strike with hammer" Now why would I want to do that? :-)
I put the smallest wire on top on the smallest terminal and the plain black medium wire on the medium terminal on the bottom. Not 100% sure that's right, but the car starts!
Working from above I dropped my 3/8" wrench onto the transmission twice and had to retrieve it from below. Also easy to drop the torx bolt, or the nuts on the starter terminals. So if going top route, be prepared to jack up car and remove reinforcement plate anyway
I disconnected left FCAB lollipop to get more room. Not strictly needed, just made it easier.
Height of car is critical. Too low and it's hard to loosen/tighten reinforcement plate bolts. Too high and it's hard to reach starter. And if high, harder to reach starter from above (put towel or yoga mat on fender to protect it). Ideal body type for this DIY is skinny body, long skinny arms, and strong hands.
Wear eye protection under the car

[ryankokesh]

Well, looks like it's time for me to tackle this super-fun replacement. Got the single click/no start this morning, which was a much appreciated surprise.

I think I might try and go in from the top. I don't care too much for being under the car if I don't have to be. Is it worth it, or should I just suck it up and go underneath?

Also, do we know part number should I be looking for? RealOEM isn't being incredibly helpful listing 4 for me...

No. Description Supplement Qty From Up To Part Number Price Notes Photo
01 Rmfd-starter motor 1,4KW 1 09/2002 12417578684 $283.02
01 Rmfd-starter motor 1,4KW 1 09/2002 12412179001 ENDED
01 Rmfd-starter motor 1,4 KW 1 09/2002 12412344242
01 Rmfd-starter motor 1,4 KW 1 09/2002 12412354693

[ryankokesh]

Do starters generally just suddenly go out? I feel like I should have had a little warning or something, and I haven't noticed anything in the way of it struggling to start the car. Which makes me afraid it's the immobilizer...

[LivesNearCostco]

Can you test the battery voltage or try a jump start? Or have someone tap the starter solenoid with an extension or long wrench while you try to start it. Yes a starter can fail without warning but I think a sudden battery failure is more likely.

[Hornung418]

I am going to be doing it from the top. Manifold removal is a cinch for me, having done it a million times. Call me if you need a hand Ryan.

Sent from my GS3.

[ryankokesh]

I am going to be doing it from the top. Manifold removal is a cinch for me, having done it a million times. Call me if you need a hand Ryan.

Sent from my GS3.

Turns out it was the battery. So yeah, imma dumbass. Voltage wasn't too bad, amperes were bad.

Maybe I should drive it out there and have you do it! :) at least take some pictures for me so I can color by number...


Sent from my iPhone

[Hornung418]

Okay. I really should make a DIY for Manifold Removal. It gets messy with all the wires and hoses...but the plugs are all keyed to fit in only one spot.

Sent from my GS3.

[ryankokesh]

Okay. I really should make a DIY for Manifold Removal. It gets messy with all the wires and hoses...but the plugs are all keyed to fit in only one spot.

Sent from my GS3.

Yeah, that'd be awesome... I'm sure I can mess it up even if I get all the plugs right!

I think I might need the manifold out to do the oil separator anyway (don't quite remember...). Maybe that's a two birds one stone project for me.

[Hornung418]

Definitely is easier with the manifold out. I have gigantic hands...so its hard to weasel them in there to undo clips and hoses.

Sent from my GS3.

[LivesNearCostco]

I'm planning to remove my manifold sometime this week to replace a possibly leaking water pipe. What do you suggest as the best way to deal with the fuel rail? Is it disconnect fuel line and remove rail from manifold first, then remove manifold? Or disconnect fuel line and just leave the fuel rail in the manifold? I bought 12 new o-rings for the injectors (upper and lower) plus 2 spare injector clips.

Should I remove the throttle body and ICV from the manifold first or leave them on there?


Okay. I really should make a DIY for Manifold Removal. It gets messy with all the wires and hoses...but the plugs are all keyed to fit in only one spot.

Sent from my GS3.

[Hornung418]

I'm planning to remove my manifold sometime this week to replace a possibly leaking water pipe. What do you suggest as the best way to deal with the fuel rail? Is it disconnect fuel line and remove rail from manifold first, then remove manifold? Or disconnect fuel line and just leave the fuel rail in the manifold? I bought 12 new o-rings for the injectors (upper and lower) plus 2 spare injector clips.

Should I remove the throttle body and ICV from the manifold first or leave them on there?

Relieve the pressure from the Schraeder valve on the rail. And pull the clip on the bottom. That way you can catch the gas in the line. Undo the rail while the manifold is still attached to the head. But dont remove the rail. It's just easier.

Did you buy the runner gaskets for the Manifold? As far as the TB and ICV, I leave the ICV in. You need to remove the TB to access the 13 mm nut on the support bracket.

Sent from my GS3.

[danewilson77]

Need diy.

Herrrrrrry up!

The friendliest forum on the planet.

[Hornung418]

When I do the CCV for the first time on this vehicle, I will post up a DIY. probably during this Summer before Bimmerfest East.

Sent from my GS3.

[Stewbie]

When I do the CCV for the first time on this vehicle, I will post up a DIY. probably during this Summer before Bimmerfest East.

Sent from my GS3.

FYI Bavarian auto has a video diy for doing the ccv. http://youtu.be/YWXtiCwRH-k

And a photo diy. http://blog.bavauto.com/5434/bmw-m54-6-cylinder-crankcase-ventilation-pcv-diy-325i-328i-330i-525i-530i/

[Hornung418]

Done that damn thing twice that the third time I can probably do it blindfolded. It's the worst thing on a 100k+ mile e46.

Sent from my GS3.

[mLuMaN83]

Y'all got me worrying bout my starter now even though it's perfect...

Son's a B's...

[ryankokesh]

Y'all got me worrying bout my starter now even though it's perfect...

Son's a B's...

Me too...


Sent from my iPhone

[ryankokesh]

Done that damn thing twice that the third time I can probably do it blindfolded. It's the worst thing on a 100k+ mile e46.

Sent from my GS3.

Wanna go for three? I'll pay in three Floyd's....


Sent from my iPhone

[3ZHP]

I already have that problem and haven't decided what to do yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ryankokesh]

I already have that problem and haven't decided what to do yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oil separator?


Sent from my iPhone

[egiles14]

Just to add to this DIY...I replaced my starter while I had the intake manifold removed to replace the hard plastic coolant lines. But as far as sourcing a new starter, you can buy a brand new Bosch starter from Amazon for around $130 shipped if you are an Amazon Prime member. The part is a Bosch SR0448N:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BZIM54?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00

It is an exact, direct replacement that looks and works just like the OE starter...which is to be expected as Bosch is the OE supplier.

[johnrando]

Thx for the info

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[rkneeshaw]

Great DIY. However I decided to take it to my mechanic. I told him about this thread too. He also went at it from under the car. He couldn't get up to those two bolts on the top of the bell housing, so he had to drop the transmission support and tilt the transmission down a few inches to get enough clearance to get to those bolts. He said it was easy enough to reach up there and get to the starter's wiring, but those bolts were too close to the firewall for him. He billed me for 3 hours labor, not too bad, and I'm glad I let him do it. I'd still be under the car fighting with it. :)


Just to add to this DIY...I replaced my starter while I had the intake manifold removed to replace the hard plastic coolant lines. But as far as sourcing a new starter, you can buy a brand new Bosch starter from Amazon for around $130 shipped if you are an Amazon Prime member. The part is a Bosch SR0448N:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BZIM54?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00

It is an exact, direct replacement that looks and works just like the OE starter...which is to be expected as Bosch is the OE supplier.

Thanks for sharing this, I bought that exact unit. Brand new with a lifetime warranty from Bosch.

[ELCID86]

So I went with
https://www.yourmechanic.com/rl/UarXRQ676115 which for me is an easier DIY (I just write the check!). He went in from both ends...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160728/31daaf21ece568d58e42fb403b01101a.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160728/10a98f50944bdea76965b2eb484dc5f4.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160728/5977f31e20d13b6a88073478d1aa8f42.jpg

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