MT work?

[Scorpius]

My car has 164k on it, never had a new clutch or any MT work done. Figured i'm probably just counting miles until something needs to be done.
What would I need to do (just a new clutch??) or is there more and has anyone around here done this before? I'd like to know the difficulty level, costs, any special items needed.
maybe a good DIY somewhere.

Thanks

[static667]

Doing the clutch yourself can be a tough job. It all depends on your mechanical ability and what kind of shop and tools you have access to.

I'd say you could probably just swap in a new clutch. Unless you are having issues with your flywheel. Your transmission could probably just use a fluid change.

Sent from my rooted Fascinate using Tapatalk.

[Scorpius]

Doing the clutch yourself can be a tough job. It all depends on your mechanical ability and what kind of shop and tools you have access to.

I'd say you could probably just swap in a new clutch. Unless you are having issues with your flywheel. Your transmission could probably just use a fluid change.

Sent from my rooted Fascinate using Tapatalk.


Well...I've done brakes, VCG, OFH gaskets and so on. I've got tools, just probably not 'specialty tools' that might be needed for this, however....if me doing it comes out equal to or less than someone else doing it and me buying the tools. I'd rather do it myself.
Not sure how i'd know if i was having flywheel issues.

[AzkotikBMW]

I just replaced my whole clutch system (including flywheel). With our cars the most expensive part (besides labor) is the flywheel. Because our cars use a "dual mass flywheel" a brand new OEM one runs about $600-700 from a shop. If you are feeling/hearing ANY slipping of the clutch, get it into the shop and replaced IMMEDIATELY. The longer you wait after you notice slipping in the clutch, the better the chances are that you'll need to have the flywheel replaced (or at least resurfaced). You want to avoid any damage to the flywheel because not having to replace it will save you about $500-$700.

To get my entire clutch + flywheel replaced cost $800 for labor and $700 in parts. Not a cheap job, but it needed to be done....and if you can save the wear on the flywheel you will be looking at around $1000 instead of $1500 (depending on labor costs).

EDIT: If you want to see what you're looking at for doing it yourself, this is the best DIY that I have found on it. http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Clutch_Replace/E36-Clutch_Replace.htm

[telijah]

Doing it yourself is not that bad as long as you have access to a lift. On the ground/on your back, simply because of the difficult access to the top two tranny bell housing, is pretty tricky. The flywheels are pretty stout though, and likely only need to be replaced if you let the clutch get REALLY bad. Most of the time, just swapping the clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing will do just fine, and a typical clutch "kit" comes with those items. You also might want to go ahead and replace the rear main seal as if it starts leaking oil later, you'll have to yank the trans off again.

I had a shop replace mine with an OEM clutch kit I bought myself. I paid just under 280 for the kit (p. plate, clutch disc, and t/o bearing), and I think the shop was only going to charge me about 350-400, but I also had him do the rear main seal (I was losing a quart of oil between my 7,500 mile oil changes) and also needed a new starter. I think I paid just under 1,000 for all the mentioned work, including the purchase cost of my clutch kit.

Edit: 265.33 for buying the clutch kit, and 744.00 for the shop (labor and cost of new starter and rear main seal). So 1009.33 for everything.

[llll1l1ll]

Not to derail too far, but my clutch chatters a bit when it's chilly out/car is warming up. Otherwise it works like a normal clutch. Anyone have this issue? Is my clutch now deemed broken and I need a new flywheel? On a side note, when engaging the clutch slowly (e.g. parking speeds) with the car warm, I can hear the flywheel rattle a bit. Does anyone else have this?

To answer OP's question, so long as you don't notice the clutch slipping, you should not need to replace it. When you do, fluid changes, rear main seal and flywheel examination come to mind.

[Scorpius]

ok checked out the DIY....holy crap thats a ton to remove just to get to it :-(
I'd only have floor stands and it's pretty much just me doing the work. Hmmmm....will definately have to think on this one. I know if i do it myself, it's going to be a PITA, but.....it will get done the right way.
If I let my local indi do it....there is bound to be something stupid done like break a bolt and say 'oh there is plenty of others holding it all together, etc...."

I just don't trust people working on my car. They are pushed so hard to get things out the door that they are easily distracted from MY car in the midst of their work, then they overlook something. However....as intense as this job is....I may just have to hope and pray they stay focused.

[AzkotikBMW]

It is a LOT of work Scorpius, it would definitely be an entire weekend project if you were to do it all by yourself. I have found a great shop that is still relatively small, and they do great work on every car that comes through there. So I trusted them to do a great job on my car, and they did. If you can find a nice "family owned" shop like that, you shouldn't have a problem getting the work done right the first time.

[telijah]

Not to derail too far, but my clutch chatters a bit when it's chilly out/car is warming up. Otherwise it works like a normal clutch. Anyone have this issue? Is my clutch now deemed broken and I need a new flywheel? On a side note, when engaging the clutch slowly (e.g. parking speeds) with the car warm, I can hear the flywheel rattle a bit. Does anyone else have this?

To answer OP's question, so long as you don't notice the clutch slipping, you should not need to replace it. When you do, fluid changes, rear main seal and flywheel examination come to mind.

This is likely just your throw out bearing/release bearing. When your foot is of the clutch pedal, this bearing for the most part is just sitting on the shaft loosely. When you press the clutch pedal, does the chattering go away? If so, then likely the bearing. However, still gotta remove the whole trans to replace just that. That was actually my initial problem, the t/o bearing was slowly falling apart, and finally it exploded (https://picasaweb.google.com/102101414697648222108/Clutch) on me.

[llll1l1ll]

Yeah it only chatters when the clutch is starting to engage. With the clutch pedal down it makes no noise. However, my E30's TOB made tons and tons of noise. It was an awful rubbing/grinding sound. This is just a quiet chattering.

FWIW, when the car is warming up, when the clutch chatters it makes the car shudder a tad.

[Scorpius]

This is likely just your throw out bearing/release bearing. When your foot is of the clutch pedal, this bearing for the most part is just sitting on the shaft loosely. When you press the clutch pedal, does the chattering go away? If so, then likely the bearing. However, still gotta remove the whole trans to replace just that. That was actually my initial problem, the t/o bearing was slowly falling apart, and finally it exploded (https://picasaweb.google.com/102101414697648222108/Clutch) on me.

my car's been doing that sound since day 1 dealer said it was typical, not to worry about it. press in clutch...goes away. Some times it doesnt even rattle.

[llll1l1ll]

Yeah I was under the impression that it chatters/makes chattering noise because that's just the nature of a dual-mass flywheel.

If I don't forget, I'll make some videos today and post them here.

[AzkotikBMW]

I have never heard this "chatter" you guys speak of.

[telijah]

Yeah I was under the impression that it chatters/makes chattering noise because that's just the nature of a dual-mass flywheel.

If I don't forget, I'll make some videos today and post them here.

Mine started as a slight chatter, and got worse and worse. Admittedly, I waited to long. It did this for about a year and a half, and got worse and worse, to the point of making god awful sounds.

[llll1l1ll]

Here is a video for clarification:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl0mtpshZyc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl0mtpshZyc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The car is at operating temperature, and I was on a hill in reverse and just slipping the clutch to induce the sound. It's not as loud if I give it gas.

[Scorpius]

sounds loud in the video, but the 'rattle' sound is the same.

[llll1l1ll]

Yeah it's never progressed to super loud. I'll keep my eye on it and if it really gets out of hand, I'll pay the mechanic a visit... literally.

[MrMaico]

my car's been doing that sound since day 1 dealer said it was typical, not to worry about it. press in clutch...goes away. Some times it doesnt even rattle.

When you say "since day 1" do you mean since brand new? I saw someone on another forum mention that his has done it since driving it off the lot new.

BTW great job on the OFH and VCG videos!

Here is a good DIY I have saved for the clutch.......

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=790149


Here is a video for clarification:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl0mtpshZyc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl0mtpshZyc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The car is at operating temperature, and I was on a hill in reverse and just slipping the clutch to induce the sound. It's not as loud if I give it gas.

Mine sounds exactly the same. No other issues though, works perfectly. First noticed it at a drive through window about 1 1/2 years ago. Like you, it is most noticeable going uphill in reverse or trying to creep along in 1st with little or no throttle. Otherwise, it is rare that I even hear it. For me it's more of an embarassment than anything since I usually back my car uphill into my garage and I'm sure the neighbors notice it. LOL

I'd hate to spend the money to replace the clutch just for an annoying noise but it may come to that, maybe next summer.

Barry

[llll1l1ll]

Hahahaha embarrassment would describe that perfectly. Nothing is worse than that sound when I'm driving by a couple of ladies trying to look badass.

PS I'm glad I'm not the only one who has this sound.

[Hornung418]

Chatter is normal for ZHPs. You all should recognize that you have a lightened Fly Wheel :) No issues. If it gets insanely loud, that would be indicative of your TOB. Ask Travis about his experience...nightmare.

[MrMaico]

Chatter is normal for ZHPs. You all should recognize that you have a lightened Fly Wheel :) No issues. If it gets insanely loud, that would be indicative of your TOB. Ask Travis about his experience...nightmare.

That lightweight flywheel myth is another one of BMWs claims for the ZHP that proved not to be true.

I think could live with it if I was certain that it isn't going to cause issues down the road. I'd hate to replace it only to have it remain or come back shortly after. The thing that bothers me is I know it wasn't always there, I just noticed it all of a sudden one day. I don't think it's gotten any louder since then though.

Here's some useful info about the rattle.....

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488970

I found this source for a LUK flywheel that's $300 cheaper than one from BMW. I read somewhere that the LUK is in fact the OEM brand.

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2004/bmw/330ci/clutch/flywheel.html

Barry

[Hornung418]

Barry, I thought it was clear that the fly wheel was a lightened variation from stock M54B30 with 6 speed package?

Anyways...it's a really common experience with these transmissions, and I don't think it's really something to worry about.

[MrMaico]

Barry, I thought it was clear that the fly wheel was a lightened variation from stock M54B30 with 6 speed package?

Anyways...it's a really common experience with these transmissions, and I don't think it's really something to worry about.

Ya, that was one of BMWs claims when the info on the ZHP was coming out but it turned out to be false. I spent a couple of hours reading about it before posting just to be sure.

I like to know that at any time I could just hop in my car and go anywhere so that's why it bothers me so much. The fact that it hasn't changed since I first noticed it makes me think/hope that it won't be a problem. MicahO mentioned in a couple of threads that his has done it from new and he's near 100,000 miles now.

Barry

[llll1l1ll]

This is all comforting information.

[webster]

i've noticed my clutch developing a slightly spongy feel lately. it's like i can feel successive "notches" as i press the clutch in. gonna have it looked at when i get my SSK installed this week...which should also address the shifter slop.

[telijah]

That could really be a number of things. However though, the clutches and flywheels are pretty stout in these things from what I've seen, it's the t/o bearing that usually fails first.

[Scorpius]

When you say "since day 1" do you mean since brand new? I saw someone on another forum mention that his has done it since driving it off the lot new.

BTW great job on the OFH and VCG videos!



Yes, pretty much day 1 i would say. I noticed it within the first 500 miles. Like someone else said, went to a drive thru and i heard this clatter. I was like WTF...it's brand new. Couldnt figure out what it was, then as I pushed in the clutch to move forward it stopped....I played with it and figured ahhh...perhaps some linkage is hitting somewhere. So my next trip to the dealer for service I mentioned it. They said oh ya, that's normal for these cars. After the 3rd time at the dealer and hearing their techs say it's normal I figured ok...well hopefully something fails soon while it's under warranty.
164,xxx miles later...still have it, no issues. Sometimes the rattle is there, other times it's not.

Glad you liked the videos! and yea, your DIY link for the clutch change, just helped to reinforce that i'll be letting my local speed shot rape me to do my clutch when it needs to be done. Least if THEY mess up anything getting it off, then it's their dime.

[MrMaico]

Yes, pretty much day 1 i would say. I noticed it within the first 500 miles. Like someone else said, went to a drive thru and i heard this clatter. I was like WTF...it's brand new. Couldnt figure out what it was, then as I pushed in the clutch to move forward it stopped....I played with it and figured ahhh...perhaps some linkage is hitting somewhere. So my next trip to the dealer for service I mentioned it. They said oh ya, that's normal for these cars. After the 3rd time at the dealer and hearing their techs say it's normal I figured ok...well hopefully something fails soon while it's under warranty.
164,xxx miles later...still have it, no issues. Sometimes the rattle is there, other times it's not.

Glad you liked the videos! and yea, your DIY link for the clutch change, just helped to reinforce that i'll be letting my local speed shot rape me to do my clutch when it needs to be done. Least if THEY mess up anything getting it off, then it's their dime.

Thank you! That's certainly good to hear (I guess) and helps alot to put my mind at ease. And my wallet! LOL Kinda makes me wish though that it would have done it from day 1 (70,400 miles) rather than starting at around 80,000 miles.

I know what you're saying about having someone else do it. No way my aching back could handle that. Especially if, like you say, something isn't right and it has to be pulled apart again. I just don't know if there is anyone local that I'd trust though so I'd probably have to drive the 400 miles to Minneapolis to have it done.

Thanks again.....Barry