ZHPMafia.com in October

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Since closing down (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?5165-It-s-Official-ZHPMafia.com-Closed-To-New-Members) the forum to new registrations, some 13 days ago, it's been remarkably odd around here.

As everyone knows, or should know, we've always been very particular about the kinds of members we want. If you were still here on the day we closed registration, you could take that as indication that you fit in. The Mafia Family rules (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1534-Mafia-Family-Rules), in other words, were something you likely didn't have a problem following.

Imagine my surprise, then, when I started to notice an uptick in behavior that you wouldn't expect here. Since closing registration, I've terminated about 60 members. Some of them were unknown to you guys because they never posted. Instead, they were in a special category of members who had every post moderated by me. Some of them attempted to post but their messages couldn't pass muster with you guys. Therefore, they were terminated. My goal has always been to make this a drama-free place. Putting potential miscreants in a special box was my way of shielding you guys from the circus- and animal-like atmosphere that exists on other forums.

The moderators at ZHPMafia.com have also been very proactive about making sure that rude and insensitive comments are few and far between around the forum. It's a balancing act, though. We don't want to be heavy handed but we also don't want things to get out of hand. To say the least, it's been a challenge to balance those two ideas.

So, even though we don't tolerate boorish, rude, unprofessional behavior around here, we do our best to make sure that the membership is unaffected when it does occur. Moderators are quick to delete posts and follow up with members who we think may need a reminder of what this forum is all about. I'd guess that 98% of the time, it only takes one note. The member gets our message and returns to being a valuable member. However, that's not always the case.

Some members require reminder after reminder. It's gets to the point that these members become high maintenance. They're so frequently in need of reminders and corrective action that members even notice and comment about it (in private messages we receive). Which leads me to today's post.

Two weeks ago, I wrote this: "Likewise, and unfortunately, some of our own may one day stray. A handful of you may feel the need to be disruptive down the road. Even with private messages from me, reminding you of the family atmosphere and friendly tone of the site, you'll continue to behave in a way that does not fit in here. Once I realize that no amount of corrective action will work, you'll be terminated. I won't create a post letting everyone know. You'll just disappear. It's my hope that no one ever gets to that point. As far as I can tell, and if I had to make a prediction, I'd guess that it's not going to happen. But you never know. At least, though, I am on record for putting my thoughts out there about the possibility (and what consequences exist if it does happen)."

I'm sorry to report that I've already been proven wrong. A handful of people have not only been banned, they've been deleted. They'll never return here. Unlike other forums that temporarily ban members (for 7 to 10 days at a time), we don't do that here. Instead, we try to correct issues by gently but firmly dealing with the issues behind the scenes. All the while, the offending members are permitted to post. We've found that to be a great way of working with people. It doesn't put anyone on the spot. We don't want to embarrass our members. And if you do receive a personal note from a moderator, please don't be offended. The note is not meant to offend. We're just trying to give you the courtesy of a reminder (in a private manner). Our goal is to work with you behind the scenes.

Anyhow, if you do notice that someone has been terminated, please understand that the termination is a reflection of our belief that no amount of corrective action could be achieved with the terminated member. In some cases, we may have sent ten messages to the member. In other cases, we may have sent four. It's rare that someone will do something so egregious that they'll be terminated for their first offense (though it did happen earlier this week).

Let me cut to the chase, though (I know you guys/girls have better things to do than read my lengthy note). We're a closed forum. No one else is coming in (we've had no new members in two weeks). Members are leaving, though. Because we no longer have to concentrate on making sure that new members don't create disturbances around here, we've been able to focus on our existing membership. For members who have had a checkered past around here (or a past that has required a lot of personal attention from us), I want you to understand that we have (with several of you) got to the end of the line. There won't be any more private messages for some of you. Instead, you'll just be shown the door. This is a worst-case scenario for me personally because there are a few of you who I really enjoy most of the time. I'd hate to see you go. But go you will. And because there is no petition to undo the termination, it will be permanent.

You guys all made the cut ahead of the registration closure. In many ways you've been hand selected as the type of member we're looking for. What's so odd is that the behavior issues (involving more members) have cropped up after closing the place down. You'd think that people would have done it the other way around. With no new registrations, people are now essentially receiving the death penalty. Anyhow, it is what it is.

So, please, guys/gals, let's continue to make this forum a friendly and professional place to be. Given the composition of our membership, this should not be a difficult thing to do.

Thanks.

[M0nk3y]

You've given everyone enough warning boss, I think this action is only fair

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[johnrando]

Thanks for working to keep this a "friendly and professional" place.

[billschusteriv]

Thanks for working to keep this a "friendly and professional" place.

Well said John. Thanks Boss.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

You guys are welcome. I'm thankful to be affiliated with this forum.

[RITmusic2k]

I sure am gonna miss Casey.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

??

Kevin, unless you're jettisoned from the crew, you won't be missing Casey. He'll be right here.

[RITmusic2k]

Sorry, my sense of humor is pretty deadpan; that was just supposed to be a little joke. Didn't mean to confuse anyone :blushing

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Kevin, good. Wanted to make sure you weren't having issues. I thought your account got hacked. :biggrin

[C Withers Media]

I sure am gonna miss Casey.

The skilled artist of internet destruction known as Pswirley is dead.

In his place is an articulate business owner who sees the value of building others up and creating opportunities for people where he can. The bottom line is, I am a small business owner trying to make a decent living for my family. While this forum doesn't really reach out to my target market, it is a great place to hang out and I never know who may be a potential client lurking in the shadows to see the kind of person I am outside of my regular target areas. Case in point, Mafia member Matt, who gave me the honor of flying me to Wisconsin to be his wedding photographer.

Beyond that, on several occasions, even here, I sat quietly on the sideline while a minority of people ridiculed, made underhanded comments, continuing to take little jabs and attempting to bring out the reactive side of me in an effort to get me to play their games. I did not react. The reason is two fold....

1. My business is too important to me.
2. I found it flattering that others were putting so much effort into attempting to bring me down when I don't typically give them a second thought during the course of a day.

Long story short. As Mark said, I enjoy it here and I enjoy the members here. If I was not all in on making this forum a better place for the selected group of us who are here, I would not be writing a monthly check to have my name associated with a venue that generally does not result in business for me.

Kevin, I realize you are joking however I do find this the right thread to share this with the entire group.

[static667]

I agree with you, Marcus. Everybody is given fair chance and this is the proper warning. Lets keep this pleasntville atmosphere.

Sent from my rooted Fascinate using Tapatalk.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

:like

[imola red zhp]

:chillin It's good to be home

[telijah]

I agree with you. While I am one of those who got a nice note via PM, I believe it is simply misunderstanding the way I write, but at the end of the day, you guys have a job to do, and it is not a democracy, so I totally agree with the admin and moderator team here. As I myself have and and still run automotive forums, I sometimes disagree with the closed membership thing (mostly because of the already small member base the sites I deal with), the site is your baby, and you have every right to do what you feel is necessary to keep it running the way you would like to see. Haters gon hate! I feel proud to still be here, knowing I've made the cut!

[kayger12]

As a moderator, I'd like to touch briefly on the misunderstanding thing so everyone can understand my thinking, at least (don't want to speak for Dane).

It is my belief that 99% of the things that I've addressed as a moderator here had no ill-intentions behind them. In most cases, it was either a case of misunderstood humor, misunderstood intentions, or a quick case of bad judgement.

The way that I see it, though, is that if I am unsure of your intentions or misunderstand a member's post, it means that other members here may misunderstand it as well.
And therein lies the problem-- the other members aren't going to say anything and we further risk that they will simply stop posting and go away-- which we definitely don't want. Or, they may hit back, in which case we have the much-dreaded interwebz quarrel that we work so hard to avoid on this site.

That is why if I see something that could be taken a few different ways, I'm quick to drop a note.

At the end of the day, bad intentions and good-yet-misunderstood-intentions both have the same negative result for the end user.

Please don't take anything we address as moderators personally. We all want the same thing: a great, friendly, stress and drama-free site to hang out on.

[Hermes]

I got a note too and I realize what I posted was stupid on my part, so it won't happen again. We are a quality group here and I am very happy with how the members here are really like a family. I also am very proud to be here as a member after we closed the doors.

[kpro]

I didn't get a PM or note, but feel like I'm in trouble :innocent I try to behave...

What happened to provoke this? or is that hush hush top secret info?

[UdubBadger]

Got my note today, sure it was probably easily avoidable on my part and to be honest I was just plain old not thinking this morning (woke up on the wrong side of a long week) and a harmless little poking fun at a thread earned me a scolding. I agree with everything you said in your note Marcus, and I can't blame you for not wanting to spend your time writing "notes" to remind people to behave in a dignified fashion. I guess I will just say that in my case, this forum is very different (in a very good way) and even though I probably can't consider myself new here anymore, I still have some tendencies from past forum use that might be misunderstood even though the intention isn't necessarily ill willed.

Kayger12 is right though; intent is not fact, and though I intended on being mildly humorous with my little boo-boo post today (and maybe somewhat snarky), the possibility for a misunderstanding is still there and that's exactly why it shouldn't have been posted in the 1st place, regardless of how humorous it might have been. I like that this site is very tight knit, I like that when you fill a room full of like minded people, you get great conversations. I might not be a ZHP owner and in most cases I'd probably be shunned from being an active member but with guys like Marcus, Dane and CW around (among others) I've been made to feel at home here and common interests OTHER than what brings most people here (ZHP's) is overlooked for other shared interests such as Photography.
I'm not perfect, I know I make mistakes and I'm sure I'll make more (hopefully not many though) but I think when people exhibit the type of character you want, the small stuff tends to work itself out and hopefully any faults of mine in my time here can be also. If I get to be too much with anyone here, please tell me personally, I can take it and would rather know if I cross a boundary than let it escalate to a "note" ... I know Dane is already sick of me ripping apart his photos ;).

Kayger12 - I owe you an apology for this morning and though I could have just as easily PM'd you, I feel that the acknowledging mistakes in the open makes you build character. I am sorry for the resistance you were met with in your message this morning. I can easily blame it on a bad day but that doesn't excuse it by any means. You were doing your job and I know that and truth be told my knee jerk reaction was fueled by a bit of embarrassement that I broke a "rule" that I didn't know existed... even though I full well new what I did wasn't in my best judgement. Even in trying to make a point to you after the fact, regardless of if you agreed with it or not, I could have done in a very different manner so again, I'm sorry.

However, after this mornings actions I think I can say in all fairness that I disagree with the statement that a "note" shouldn't be taken personally. It should be, because if you don't take it that way it would mean you didn't care enough to know whatever you did was wrong. Maybe being remorseful would be a better way of putting it. The rules around here aren't super complex so if you are a person of good character then it should just be a matter of exhibiting normal behavior and judgement. If you stray from those boundaries then ok, it might happen to everyone once in a while (hopefully a long while), but to not take it personally or feel remorseful would mean you acted in a way you thought was appropriate, which would then ultimately call that person's character into question.

[danewilson77]

I sent myself a note today.

I....almost on a daily basis, post something (or almost post something), that makes me think about where we are and what we do, and what the site is all about.

Agree with KG and the Boss. I won't beat a dead horse, but I will say, you guys/gals (members), really make this place a joy to be a part of.


And.....






























"You all complete me...."

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Guys, I appreciate the thoughtful discourse taking place here. As we all know by now, I don't single people out on this forum. I speak broadly. I figure that my post will be taken to heart by those who need a little reminding. Others may completely ignore my post because they've never received anything from me.

For the record, I don't send a lot of PMs to members. I receive a lot of PMs from you guys, though. :biggrin My mailbox has a limit of 10,000. I have received something like 4,000 PMs. Still got a ways to go.

Anyhow, when I do get involved with a PM it's because I either have a personal relationship with someone (I may know the person outside of this forum) or because I've been brought in by another moderator because they haven't been successful at getting someone to conform to the rules that exist at this forum.

My take on all of this is that we're all adults. In the real world, outside of these cyber walls, I'd be willing to bet that most of us treat people with respect and professionalism. It's always been my goal to have us behave the same way. Once you get through all of the personal attacks (that exist on other forums), the agendas (that exist on different forums), and the immaturity (that exists on different forums), then you can concentrate on making friends, exchanging worthwhile information, networking, and generally building a community worth being a part of.

I know that a few of you guys have confessed to receiving notes from us in the past. Understand that it was not my intent to "draw you out." hehe. That said, I am glad that you guys feel comfortable enough to do it. We've got a great community here. I've seen a lot of discussions take place on this forum that would never see the light of day on other forums (because people tend to be judgmental by nature). No one wants to air their personal business in that kind of environment.

My hope is this: that we all get along, that we continue to build a community where we can share ideas and exchange information that's beneficial to one another. I do not get a kick out of deleting people from the rolls.

And, Kristen, there wasn't a specific flashpoint that caused me to create the thread this morning. It was just an odd October that gave me the impetus to remind everyone that even though we're in Pleasantville, we have to continue working at preserving what we have. Our forum is now a year old. I'd like to believe that we'll be an even stronger community a year from now.

I'm hoping that a thread like this helps us on our way.

[johnrando]

Oh yea. That totally slipped my mind. Happy Birthday ZHPmafia.com!!!!

:waldo

:hashbrowns

:like

:danehappy

:chuck

[kayger12]

Udub- apology not necessary.

I apologize if I came off too strong in the PM.

You're a good contributor here, and I appreciate what you add.

Folks, we've got a great family here, and I feel very fortunate to be a part of it.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[danewilson77]

Bump.

[cakM3]

Thanks boss for sharing your thoughts. I think what makes this forum special is that you and all the moderators here promote that "family" atmosphere. There is a "close knit" feeling that I see and one example of this is when Dane hosts his annual ZHP Mafia reunion.

I see so much support from everyone.... this is a good thing. All I can say is that I feel very fortunate to have made the cut and am very happy to be here. Appreciate all the support I have gotten from the family this year. I cannot thank each of you enough :thumbsup

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Charlie, thanks for the note. Just a big, happy family.

Glad you're here too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cakM3]

No problem boss :biggrin

My only regret is that I was unable to make the reunion meet last year due to family/work issues. Hopefully this year will be different and I will be able to make the meet....it will be nice to meet some of the "family" in person....:)

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Reserve the time now. Make it happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mtnman]

I must have missed something, but im ok with that. I like our place in the interweb. Glad Al got this thing going ;)

Im happy as a clam to be here. We have a good place. It will find itself (again) in a few weeks and all will be well. I appreciate all u moderators do. Cheers everyone.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

[SureShot434]

Reserve the time now. Make it happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What are the dates?? Is it going to be at Dane's again??

[cakM3]

Reserve the time now. Make it happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Already done boss :thumbsup

[Johnmadd]

Well... This is the only forum that I have made my first site I view everyday, I really do love this site. I always try to help when I have some knowledge. You all have made this an awesome place for fun and car experience and just generally being good people to talk with, I hope to be able to contribute more specific e46 knowledge as I come across things that need to be done. One other thing I should express here is that while trying to show some personality/humor, I may be one of the people that this thread has been started for, although I haven't gotten a message for any recent activities, my humor may have been taken wrong and for that I apologize to anyone I may have offended.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

John, no worries. Not directed toward you at all. Stay loveable, sir.

[Johnmadd]

Thank you Mr. SanDiego.

[danewilson77]

Thank you Mr. SanDiego.

And....stay thirsty my friend.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Johnmadd]

XxX

[Au2bahn]

There must be a lot of inappropriate posts for Marcus to send this out. I guess I dont read enough posts to witness the drama that may have occurred as I hone in on the technical topics only.

I believe the moderators are doing a superb job administrating this site and deserve an :applause. and feel privileged to have joined since inception.

[Johnmadd]

The moderator's do such a great job that nobody notices.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

The moderator's do such a great job that nobody notices.

This.

We remove things very quickly. One thing we don't do, though, is edit posts. Instead, we'll send a note to someone who we think can rephrase something a little bit better.

Also, and this is something I really enjoy about you guys, the membership does a great job of editing posts on its own. Sometimes you guys will even delete posts. Moderators have the ability to read deleted posts. Sometimes I am surprised at the stuff you guys censor on your own.

Anyhow, you guys do a fabulous job of keeping this place clean.

[Scorpius]

Wow...i'm just glad i found this forum when i did a few months back. Seeing as we're on lockdown now. I was so pleased to find a place that is only ZHP. This is my baby (though i'm over the daily washing and waxing like some i see here) she's my dd and i'm pretty handy at figuring things out and fixing my own, but i like to have all the info i can. seems to be a great place to get that info!
btw...if you ever get the withdrawal symptoms cause your car's already waxed to the max. you can come get your 'fix' on my car. She'd love a good claybar.
(god i love silvergray....looks good even dirty) :-)

[danewilson77]

Glad your here as well. One correction however. Though the site is ZHP specific, its not an only ZHP site.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[cakM3]

And....stay thirsty my friend.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

:like

[Jon D]

Dang I never realized there was so much going on behind the scenes :dunno .. Glad to hear is settling down :chillin

[pfr]

All I can say (and that's not even original) that I am glad I found this forum and that I made it in... Marcus, moderators, you are doing a wonderful job and have a great membership!

Although I am mostly a lurker, I enjoy lurking here a lot... Thank y'all.
- Peter

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Peter, thanks for the comment, sir. Glad to have you.

[jreyes19]

Great forum, great people, great mods, and a great Boss
all adds up to a great time, every time i log on

Thanks for preserving the great atmosphere here Marcus and Mods you guys are doing great :)

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Josh, thanks for the comment.

[zhpnsnv]

All I can say (and that's not even original) that I am glad I found this forum and that I made it in... Marcus, moderators, you are doing a wonderful job and have a great membership!

Although I am mostly a lurker, I enjoy lurking here a lot... Thank y'all.
- Peter

Long live the lurker. Lurk on, sir. I shall refer to you as Lurk Skywalker.:cheers

This is such a serious thread with such a serious topic. There are complete paragraphs and thoughts. Obviously, I can't contribute in this manner. So I'll leave it at this: long live Big Brother and Mafiaspeak :keith.

On a serious note, it reminds me of an argument I hear every day: "Technology is making our society rude and dumb." Wrong. Our society has always been rude and dumb, now we have devices and places that amplify it. An internet forum, no matter how tightly knit, will always be too loosely coupled to ensure an actual culture, thus the need for Terminator-like moderation. Terminate on, men.

[Johnmadd]

^hahahah, Lurk Skywalker lol.

[danewilson77]

All I can say (and that's not even original) that I am glad I found this forum and that I made it in... Marcus, moderators, you are doing a wonderful job and have a great membership!

Although I am mostly a lurker, I enjoy lurking here a lot... Thank y'all.
- Peter

You had me at "hello"

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Hornung418]

You had me at "hello"

HTC Thunderbolt+TT
If I had a nickle...

:danehappy

[danewilson77]

If I had a nickle...

:danehappy

You would have a $0.10?

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[telijah]

If I had a nickle...

:danehappy

...I'd owe a lot of refunds...