Reasonable labor costs?

[webster]

So I'm trying to put together a list of maintenance items I want to address so that I can start pricing what it would cost for a good local shop to perform everything. I'm calling around and getting some pretty steep labor cost quotes. Maybe it's just BMWs/German cars in general but it all seems overpriced to me.

For example, I just got quoted $350 in labor for the VCG in addition to $400 for the VANOS. They wanted $216 in labor for FCABs (in addition to which they strongly advised an alignment and "sterring sensor calibration" which I have not heard of, $190 and $100 respectively). They also not so politely informed me that all service would not be warrantied by the shop since parts would be supplied by me and not them.

All of that seems really high. I mean the VCG is like a $30 part, you're telling me it costs $350 to install? Please. So for someone who realistically has zero chance of ever DIY'ing something like a VANOS unit or suspension bushings, are these reasonable? And more importantly, what's a non-mechanic to do? Besides be a baller of course. I have a couple more shops to call but I'm not expecting much variance. Also it seems that there's not much point to buying the parts myself a bit cheaper if none of the work done is going to be guaranteed. I want to keep this car tip top for years to come so any advice is appreciated!

[imola red zhp]

Yes the prices are high, but unless you have a good rep with a tech in your area that you use regularly, it will be difficult to find someone to do this work without paying substantially. In your area find someone you're comfortable and certified to work on our non-special cars (ZHP). Build a relationship with the tech and try to pay attention to detail about the work being done. The tech will be familiar with your car and his work and will likely (if he's good) give you discounts for returning to his shop consistantly. You can always use us on this site to ask questions before you go out to your tech and that way you won't feel that you're being taken advantage of.

you can also ask other members on this site if they may know someone in your area that can do the work.

As far as pricing $216 is fair for the CABS for labor, should be around $150-185 for the alignment if it's laser. Most shops won't warrant labor for parts brought in by customer best way is to see if the shop carrys thiose same part or if they can order them just make sure they charge you fairly for parts.
GL

[zj96sc]

what's a non-mechanic to do? Besides be a baller of course.

Frankly? Forget about owning BMWs, or plant a money tree. This is a seemingly jerk answer, but it is a pretty inevitable conclusion that I've seen a lot of people realize over my years on BMW forums. BMW/german/european cars will always command high labor rates for work, justified or not. Shops hear "BMW" and their mouths start to water. If you don't have the capability, you'll just have to pay to play, and there's no way around that.

From my chair, your options are:

- find a local/indie/mom'n'pop that does good work for reasonable rates that you can live with in perpetuity, but this will obviously be tough. like imola said, talk to local folks and see if they have recommendations.

- I've talked this up to you before, but I am a staunch advocate of DIY. VCG is an EXCELLENT first DIY project. VANOS is a little hairy for a first shot, but maybe a local member can come by and lend a hand. CABs are easy DIY territory too. I know i say this everywhere, but for the money you'll spend on labor, you can buy all the tools you need to do this work and then some. Just for these three parts you're talking $966 in labor. That's a jack, jackstands, 3 jaw pullers, vice, vice liners, electric impact, RTV, and even then if you don't have space for these tools (apartment or something) that would still cover one year's rental on a storage unit to keep it all in. This is such a no brainer to me but I understand not everyone feels the same.

No warranty for parts you bring in is standard. They get butthurt about this because it takes away their chance to make margin on the parts.

[webster]

thanks for your replies. i guess i will just have to start budgeting and saving for some of this stuff. part of me thinks i'm wanting to do too much in the first couple months of ownership. i mean i only got the car in august and look at all the stuff i've already done to it, both mods and preventive maintenance. i'm not even to 53k yet so i still have time for a lot of this stuff.

as far as DIY goes, i would love to learn more about how to work on these cars. i am excited by every little DIY i complete, it instills confidence. but when it comes to engine/suspension, i get pretty timid. it would definitely help to have someone with a lot of experience show me the ropes. you guys know anyone down here? lol

[Rustyh]

Now you see why a lot of people won't buy BMW's, MB and Porsche's. It's not that they can't afford them, it's because they feel they're paying extortion money to get them repaired. There's good reason BMW leases far surpass sales.

That said, almost all marquees are expensive to maintain these days. My dealer charges $110 per hr. My wife's VW dealer (same auto group) pays $105. My Harley shop charges $110! lol Go figure.

As far as the time to service, at a BMW dealership that's generaly always by the book. Whatever amount of time BMW's manual says it should take to replace a part, that's what the dealer is going to charge. I suspect that's the same everywhere these days, save for indy shops.

As far as warrantying (sp?) parts brought in by a customer, yep that's how it goes. Gotta see it their way; they have no idea where you bought it (think "Ebay"), if it's been dropped or damaged in some way that's undetectable to the human eye, if the manufacturer will still be around to honor the warranty, etc. I'm pretty sure all dealerships of all marquees have the same policy and many if not most, won't even install aftermarket parts. As a rule my dealer won't, although I'm sure there are some customers other than myself that have been doing business with them for years who they will sometimes make an exception, but that's generally for non-critical parts like lense replacements, radios, etc. Not brake kits, superchargers, and so on.

Rusty

[danewilson77]

Casey BMW = $135/hr.

We win! Wait.....

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Hermes]

I'm still trying to find a shop that will let me pay in beer and burgers, no luck yet

[kayger12]

I'm still trying to find a shop that will let me pay in beer and burgers, no luck yet

Funny, that's the only currency that Uncle Keith's E46 Shop accepts.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[danewilson77]

Funny, that's the only currency that Uncle Keith's E46 Shop accepts.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

As well as Diamond Danes Wonderhouse garage.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[kayger12]

As well as Diamond Danes Wonderhouse garage.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

LOVE that place. :wub

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[Hermes]

Not sure when I'm gonna have time to make it to those shops, maybe next year

[llll1l1ll]

I make some killer burgers and I have excellent taste in beer.

I think the indie shop I went to has a labor rate a little less than 100 bucks. Maybe. I dunno. They charged me 300 bucks to do the FCABs (I'm scrawny and do not have good jack stands) and that was with my own parts. They let me bring in my own parts. I spoke with the guy about cars for a while, and they were really friendly. They do good work, too. The shop was clean, and the employees looked happy.

The problem I have with DIY around here is that I live in a city-ish area, so it's frowned upon to do work in your apartment complex. Someone mentioned storage unit, and I was contemplating getting a garage-sized one to do my work in... if I could ever find such a place.

Anyway, the VCG is an easy DIY. That would take me an afternoon including beer drinking and slow movement. Granted, that's if I don't encounter any problems (stripped bolts, stuck parts, etc.).

[zj96sc]

Most storage unit facilities will not let you do work in the unit or at the unit, pretty explicit in their user agreements. Probably an insurance liability issue. They also on purpose do not provide any electric power beyond a single light bulb for each unit for this reason. If you don't have a place to store the tools though, this will work for you.

[llll1l1ll]

Hahah yeah I kind of realized that after I typed it. I usually keep all my tools in my room.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were some sort of communal garage where people could go and work on their cars? You would pay the dues and take some safety tests, and then you would have access to a garage with tools, lifts, presses, etc.

[quikryptonite]

There is a new place like that by me.
http://www.wrench-it.com/
I'll have to give it a try here soon.

[zj96sc]

Yeah, I've had this discussion several times with my friends and what it ultimately boils down to and why these places are short lived and few and far between is insurance liability. Just a huuuge liability that they expose themselves to....and on top of that, like it or not the average clientele trying to work on their own cars just compounds the danger.

[llll1l1ll]

I figured it would be insurance holding everything back. A bunch of newbies trying to operate a car lift and walk around under it? Sounds like a disaster.

I'm sure if a shop like that put some people in charge to oversee as well as some good, mandatory safety tests and perhaps even charge for membership it would help fund things.

I'd probably be willing to pay up to 100 extra per month to have access to a garage with a lift and specialty tools. I would save SO much money (and bloody knuckles, cold fingers, angry swearing sessions and extra beers drank).