View Full Version : Micheles New Rocket Ship-Impressions after 1 Week
In Heinleins The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, the official motto of the lunar colony is TANSTAAFL--There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Not surprisingly, this ethos turned up in a lot of Heinleins work. Source notwithstanding, they're words to remember well, and they bring me to the start of this review.
The good: I now own a 330Ci ZHP that can probably outrun an unmodded E46 M3. What's more, it has M3 seats, semiforged wheels, and adaptive Bosch headlights. Maintenance history, if not exactly old school, is really quite decent. Brakes are at 6mm front and rear. A short shifter of one sort or another appears to be present. The car corners as if on rails, accelerates with authority (and then some), and just plain works like a BMW ought to. And let's be honest: stick just rocks my world! ;)
The not-terrific: I originally mentioned that I thought the car needed a CDV delete; I no longer believe this to be true. Except at startup, shifts are smooth and seamless (anyone need a Zeckhausen modified CDV?). At startup, the engine stutters (badly) in low gear/at low revs, and is worse as temperatures drop. Once the engine is warm, the problem disappears. Salient facts include a) a small valve cover gasket leak that was apparently known of for more than a year before I bought the car, and; b) a cryptic note from the S/C installer in November 2009 about a failing fuel pump and/or filter. Then, of course, there's the little T-stat open failure that magically manifested itself on arrival to Wisconsin. The brake fluid--ostensibly changed back in May--had become significantly moisture-laden and red(dye?)-colored after three months and 400 miles of driving. The grey M3 seats show significant new wear after ten days (can anyone say 'dye job'? Repeat after me...).
Before anyone assumes I'm whining, let me make something clear: I was at-least somewhat suspicious that my seller is a 'car flipper' before I purchased the car. I am now much more-inclined to that view. That view nothwithstanding, I really love this car. I'm hopeful that a new fuel filter, valve cover gasket, spark plugs and VANOS gasket will work wonders for the cold hesitation and near-stalls. Leather can (eventually will) be re-done. Brake fluid is cheap. And I already have almost everything I need for a coolant system overhaul.
Oh, yeah...here's an interesting thing to chew on, for all you engineering types: per the OBC, estimated fuel economy when I refilled tonight was 32.7mpg after 342 miles. Per direct calculation, ACTUAL fuel economy was 24.45mpg. While several competing theories occupy my little brain, I posit this one to those of you who are technically-gifted: could the S/C setup and/or programming really screw up the OBCs fuel economy algorithm that badly? More data to come as I put more miles on my rocket sled and fix what ails her...
johnrando
10-15-2011, 07:09 PM
Unfortunately I can't answer your questions, but I'm riveted to hear the outcome. I really hope those minor fixes can tame this awesome beast you own, as many of us are living vicariously through you. We need a Stewie "Rocket Man" smiley for your posts.
Marcus-SanDiego
10-15-2011, 07:29 PM
Michele, I know you're not going to whine but let me do a little for you.
The seller sounds like a piece of work. Were these problems buried in the maintenance records? It's obvious our seller didn't disclose anything verbally. Dye job on the seats? Nice. Dickhead. It's a BS move for not disclosing that.
I could go on and on but suffice it to say that people like this drove me when I was a news reporter covering wall street. I hated fraudsters. You have no idea how much I wish this guy was a wall street operator back in the day. Would have loved to put a guy like that in jail.
End rant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
danewilson77
10-15-2011, 07:39 PM
Michele, I know you're not going to whine but let me do a little for you.
The seller sounds like a piece of work. Were these problems buried in the maintenance records? It's obvious our seller didn't disclose anything verbally. Dye job on the seats? Nice. Dickhead. It's a BS move for not disclosing that.
I could go on and on but suffice it to say that people like this drove me when I was a news reporter covering wall street. I hated fraudsters. You have no idea how much I wish this guy was a wall street operator back in the day. Would have loved to put a guy like that in jail.
End rant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
+1. That's a crock of sheet.
HTC Thunderbolt+TT
Johnmadd
10-15-2011, 07:41 PM
That's a very nice car, but, a highly modded engine requires eagle eye maintenance, do all gaskets and fluids change. I have commented before on here that the obc can be inaccurate and to do the math manually.
Oli77
10-16-2011, 10:11 AM
Congratulations on the new wheels.
No pics?
With respect to the OBC mileage, does the MPH gauge also reads too fast? It would have to be >25% off.
Had you reset it before your trip?
Michele, I know you're not going to whine but let me do a little for you.
The seller sounds like a piece of work. Were these problems buried in the maintenance records? It's obvious our seller didn't disclose anything verbally. Dye job on the seats? Nice. Dickhead. It's a BS move for not disclosing that.
I could go on and on but suffice it to say that people like this drove me when I was a news reporter covering wall street. I hated fraudsters. You have no idea how much I wish this guy was a wall street operator back in the day. Would have loved to put a guy like that in jail.
End rant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Marcus, thank you for whining on my behalf! :) At risk of seeming a Pollyanna, I beg permission to clarify...
When I first started this thread, I intended TANSTAAFL to be its central theme. Between being tired and feeling a bit peevish, I let caveat emptor creep in as a secondary theme, and created a mixed message. To wit: of the complaints I listed, I was aware--at least in part--of the brake fluid issue and valve cover gasket prior to purchase. I wasn't aware of the ongoing, long-term nature of the gasket leak; it was presented for my discovery on the POs May 2011 PPI, which he was so kind as to supply to me. Ostensibly, the brake fluid was changed by the POs shop in May 2011, so its high moisture content and strange color were at odds with the shops practice of pressure bleeding with bulk ATE brake fluid. I can only assume (based on other data) that the tech flushing the fluid did either a shoddy job or no job at all, but billed for it anyway. We have a gallon of Type 200 in the garage, and a set of Stoptech stainless lines, so I wasn't overly bothered by this latter revelation.
With regards to the t-stat, I have to give the seller the benefit of the doubt. After all, how many of us knew early in ownership exactly how the E46 t-stat or temp gauge behave? I certainly didn't.
As regards the leather, the seller/PO owned my car for 4 months and 400 miles. Even a poor cover-up dye job could conceivably last that long. Maybe.
Where the seller sinned egregiously was in omitting the startup problems, which he HAD to know about. To my mind, that is where the clearest fraud was committed. That he 'had no access to a fax' and therefore couldn't send me all records in advance sounds a lot less innocuous in hindsight. Likewise, his passive disclosure of problems looks a little bit more suspicious to me. The bulk of my upset, though, is reserved for the startup problem, which could be serious and costly. THAT's what's inexcusable, in my opinion.
So, caveat emptor, Mafiosi! Anyway, I'm going to bed. 'Night all!
jreyes19
10-16-2011, 08:23 PM
Wow sounds like a sweet ride :)
the silver lining is that
yes, it has its problems, but fixing them is what makes the car feel more personal
plus vanos, valve cover, cooling spark plugs (ignition coils) and many of the other stuff are things you would have to change later on any ways so they may solve your problem, and it would take any money that you wouldnt have had to spend later on, in the car :)
hope all works out for you
please make a video of the S/C whine :drool
Wow sounds like a sweet ride :)
the silver lining is that
yes, it has its problems, but fixing them is what makes the car feel more personal
plus vanos, valve cover, cooling spark plugs (ignition coils) and many of the other stuff are things you would have to change later on any ways so they may solve your problem, and it would take any money that you wouldnt have had to spend later on, in the car :)
hope all works out for you
please make a video of the S/C whine :drool
You are absolutely right! If I'm lucky, one or another of these will fix my startup problem, too...
If I haven't been absolutely clear, please excuse me. On balance, I'm very pleased with the car.
And yes, if I must share whining, supercharger whining is definitely the way to go!
Mr Paul
10-17-2011, 05:40 AM
In Heinleins The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, the official motto of the lunar colony is TANSTAAFL--There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Not surprisingly, this ethos turned up in a lot of Heinleins work. Source notwithstanding, they're words to remember well, and they bring me to the start of this review.
The good: I now own a 330Ci ZHP that can probably outrun an unmodded E46 M3. What's more, it has M3 seats, semiforged wheels, and adaptive Bosch headlights. Maintenance history, if not exactly old school, is really quite decent. Brakes are at 6mm front and rear. A short shifter of one sort or another appears to be present. The car corners as if on rails, accelerates with authority (and then some), and just plain works like a BMW ought to. And let's be honest: stick just rocks my world! ;)
The not-terrific: I originally mentioned that I thought the car needed a CDV delete; I no longer believe this to be true. Except at startup, shifts are smooth and seamless (anyone need a Zeckhausen modified CDV?). At startup, the engine stutters (badly) in low gear/at low revs, and is worse as temperatures drop. Once the engine is warm, the problem disappears. Salient facts include a) a small valve cover gasket leak that was apparently known of for more than a year before I bought the car, and; b) a cryptic note from the S/C installer in November 2009 about a failing fuel pump and/or filter. Then, of course, there's the little T-stat open failure that magically manifested itself on arrival to Wisconsin. The brake fluid--ostensibly changed back in May--had become significantly moisture-laden and red(dye?)-colored after three months and 400 miles of driving. The grey M3 seats show significant new wear after ten days (can anyone say 'dye job'? Repeat after me...).
Before anyone assumes I'm whining, let me make something clear: I was at-least somewhat suspicious that my seller is a 'car flipper' before I purchased the car. I am now much more-inclined to that view. That view nothwithstanding, I really love this car. I'm hopeful that a new fuel filter, valve cover gasket, spark plugs and VANOS gasket will work wonders for the cold hesitation and near-stalls. Leather can (eventually will) be re-done. Brake fluid is cheap. And I already have almost everything I need for a coolant system overhaul.
Oh, yeah...here's an interesting thing to chew on, for all you engineering types: per the OBC, estimated fuel economy when I refilled tonight was 32.7mpg after 342 miles. Per direct calculation, ACTUAL fuel economy was 24.45mpg. While several competing theories occupy my little brain, I posit this one to those of you who are technically-gifted: could the S/C setup and/or programming really screw up the OBCs fuel economy algorithm that badly? More data to come as I put more miles on my rocket sled and fix what ails her...
I am assuming that the SC kit came with larger fuel injectors? If so, that is where your bad MPG data is coming from. When I had my big turbo Audi A4 my OBC would tell me I was getting ~37 mpg, when in reality it was closer to 25-26. The more your fuel injectors deviate from the stock size, the further your readings will be off.
Yes, the SC has larger injectors. Thanks for the information!
Ryans323i
10-17-2011, 08:06 AM
I guess you gotta take the good w/ the bad. Either way, I'm still totally jealous!
I am assuming that the SC kit came with larger fuel injectors? If so, that is where your bad MPG data is coming from. When I had my big turbo Audi A4 my OBC would tell me I was getting ~37 mpg, when in reality it was closer to 25-26. The more your fuel injectors deviate from the stock size, the further your readings will be off.
That's some great info!
az3579
10-17-2011, 04:13 PM
Damn, I knew the high mpg numbers with a supercharger were too good to be true... :(
I guess it's back to a turbo for me (for the future).
Don't worry Michelle, you will get to bond with the car while fixing its issues. I'm sure it's a relatively small price to pay considering it has MORE GO JUICE!
bullfrogs_M3
10-18-2011, 06:09 AM
Subscribed for pics :)
ryankokesh
10-18-2011, 06:29 AM
someone's gotta do this...
:worthless
Ok, so maybe not worthless. But still.. new car, no pics??
Hornung418
10-18-2011, 09:20 AM
I demand pics!!!!!
Did we ever say what brand of supercharger was installed?
jayjay_dee
10-18-2011, 09:34 AM
in for pics...
someone's gotta do this...
:worthless
Ok, so maybe not worthless. But still.. new car, no pics??
Worthless? WORTHLESS?
It's an ESS TS2 supercharger, BTW...
http://tapatalk.com/mu/4cff167a-32bc-73ab.jpg
Johnmadd
10-18-2011, 06:53 PM
Worthless? WORTHLESS?
It's an ESS TS2 supercharger, BTW...
http://tapatalk.com/mu/4cff167a-32bc-73ab.jpg
Dont take offense, its all friendly, everyone wants to see a picture of your engine. That is all.
I guess an engine detail is in my near future, then! I will try to post pics (and a decent S/C video) tomorrow or Thursday, okay?
Worthless...hmmmph!
Johnmadd
10-18-2011, 07:28 PM
Infinite worth msrn. Thank you. :-)
Infinite worth msrn. Thank you. :-)
Flattery will get you anywhere, John! :)
BTW, does anyone here know the practical size limit for uploads to the forum?
ryankokesh
10-18-2011, 08:20 PM
There wasn't a "This thread is mildly disappointing without pictures" emoticon. Hope you didn't take that the wrong way! :)
SUCH visual creatures you all are!
bullfrogs_M3
10-19-2011, 06:08 AM
SUCH visual creatures you all are!
We are men*, whatcha gonna do :dunno
* Well, the majority of us on this board are.
We are men*, whatcha gonna do :dunno
* Well, the majority of us on this board are.
Really? You mean this isn't the Lancôme forum? :rolleyes
I wasn't annoyed, just amused. It really hadn't occurred to me to take pictures of the engine...
And for the record, you are just fine as you are! :)
johnrando
10-19-2011, 08:06 AM
Best way for pics it to host it on photobucket or flickr, then just post the .img link to the pic here. I can walk you through it if needed. Much easier than uploading to the site, as there is a size limit. An please include pics of the car too, not just the engine. Yes, we are visual creatures. :)
carsontl
10-19-2011, 08:08 AM
i prefer imgur.com but that's just me
danewilson77
10-19-2011, 08:35 AM
She's posted pics before fella's. I think...
webster
10-19-2011, 09:27 AM
i remember some pics of the car in the PO's for sale thread. it was silver grey/grey w/ aftermarket wheels and looked like it had been lowered. don't recall any engine bay pics tho.
Actually, the P.O. sent me quite a few pics. Here are a few, to whet your appetites...
:peace
M0nk3y
10-19-2011, 08:06 PM
Never knew you had a sleeper!
Insane torque numbers :drool
Like I said--this car is crazy fast. I caught up to a law-abiding driver in a Panamera S yesterday, and I got the sense I could have kept up with him at ANY speed. Maybe I'm wrong, but it was fun to imagine, anyway!
Never knew you had a sleeper!
Insane torque numbers :drool
Johnmadd
10-19-2011, 08:20 PM
Thank you. I am humbled by your car now. Very cool that you have your cars dyno results sheet/ results( had to clarify that meant document.)
Johnmadd
10-19-2011, 08:21 PM
.not sheeeeeet as in shit. :-)
Hornung418
10-19-2011, 08:43 PM
Orgasmic.
Thank you. I am humbled by your car now. Very cool that you have your cars dyno results sheet/ results( had to clarify that meant document.)
The silly thing about it, John, is that I have absolutely NO IDEA what I might (legally) do with a car this ridiculously powerful...besides track it, that is.
M0nk3y
10-19-2011, 08:53 PM
The silly thing about it, John, is that I have absolutely NO IDEA what I might (legally) do with a car this ridiculously powerful...besides track it, that is.
Not intended to hi-jack here:
But it's scary how much horsepower 300+ really is. It can get you in serious trouble. Simple passes in 6th gear on the highway and I'll look down doing triple digits while merging back over because I wanted to gas it a-bit.
It's just so unrealistic for cars now-a-days to put down 400+ IMO. I don't think I'll ever get that type of power. 333 is scary enough in a 21 year old hands IMO. Comes with a huge responsibility.
Hermes
10-19-2011, 09:15 PM
I love how your dyno sheet has vehicle type listed as "330i (wrong) BMW 2004 LOVIN"
also, I spy a stock intake... is there engine eye candy in the works? (not like you need 5hp)
johnrando
10-19-2011, 09:41 PM
Oh man. That car is AWESOME! :drool
+1 that the model is a LOVIN. :biggrin
danewilson77
10-20-2011, 03:32 AM
Very nice Michele. Is that 19% drive train loss, and only 266 Hp to the wheel? For whatever reason...I thought you would have closer to 300 to the wheel?
I love how your dyno sheet has vehicle type listed as "330i (wrong) BMW 2004 LOVIN"
also, I spy a stock intake... is there engine eye candy in the works? (not like you need 5hp)
Sorry, Hermes--busy week! John Lovin is the p.o. twice-removed who bought the S/C and had it installed in late 2009, as I recall.
CAI upgrade? My best guess is that--since the S/C and intercooler are already significantly increasing air density--a CAI would be strictly 'eye candy.'. Besides, I'm trying to troubleshoot the cold engine idle problem/stutter right now, and will save my pennies for that!
Short-term, I need to worry about winter wheels, gaskets, plugs, fuel filter, brake, diff and tranny fluids, detailing, camber plates, and the PS mirror I broke this week (don't ask--I was being dumb). I'm trying to figure out if I can retrofit folding mirrors to the car, as garage space is tight (hence the broken mirror). Eye candy is very tempting, though! :)
Very nice Michele. Is that 19% drive train loss, and only 266 Hp to the wheel? For whatever reason...I thought you would have closer to 300 to the wheel?
Honestly, Dane, I don't know. I'm not sure what drag power comprises: drivetrain alone, or drivetrain plus the cars drag coefficient (is that the right term?). For that matter, I don't understand the difference between engine power and corrected power, which is just over 8% higher. Doesn't 19% loss seem a bit high to you?
danewilson77
10-22-2011, 06:35 PM
No need to worry about drag coefficient.
I was referring to the loss that occurs between the piston to the wheels.
They say it typically ranges 10-15%, but then if you factor in dyno accuracy...yours is prolly ballpark.
HTC Thunderbolt+TT
jreyes19
10-22-2011, 06:43 PM
:drool
which rims do you have on
i do like the ones in the 3rd to last picture :)
Sorry not to reply sooner, JReyes! I like those rims, too! But the car came with the other set of rims.
cakM3
10-31-2011, 03:04 PM
Congrats on the rocket Michelle :thumbsup
I had the pleasure to drive an ESS twin-screw a few weeks ago. A friend of mine has it in his 330i ZHP....what a ride :) Don't know if I would race him in my "stock" ///M but it would be fun...:biggrin
Now I want to get a supercharger but which car to put it in??? :)
RITmusic2k
10-31-2011, 04:06 PM
FYI, "corrected" power is a SAE scaling factor to normalize all dyno sheet reports as compared to a benchmark standard temperature (I think 72 degrees F) at sea level. If you make your run on a very hot day, or at a crazy altitude, you'll have a correction that scales your numbers up to what they would have been if the temperature and pressure were ideal.
Using SAE corrected numbers with forced induction motors is often considered cheating, though, since they will up the boost in order to make their required power regardless of ambient pressure. Therefore the sea-level correction should not be applied.
FYI, "corrected" power is a SAE scaling factor to normalize all dyno sheet reports as compared to a benchmark standard temperature (I think 72 degrees F) at sea level. If you make your run on a very hot day, or at a crazy altitude, you'll have a correction that scales your numbers up to what they would have been if the temperature and pressure were ideal.
Using SAE corrected numbers with forced induction motors is often considered cheating, though, since they will up the boost in order to make their required power regardless of ambient pressure. Therefore the sea-level correction should not be applied.
Interesting...thanks, Kevin (it IS Kevin, I hope?)!
Since my S/C has a boost of 8psi, wouldn't it work better at 72F and sea level, than at 110F and 4,000 ft above sea level, assuming maximum boost in both instances? Color me confused...
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