Kumho Ecsta 4x All Season Ultra High Performance All Season Tires

[kayger12]

Recently installed these on the ZHP. After driving last winter on summer tires, I was ready to give some all seasons a try.

Use Parameters: This car won't be tracked, so I wasn't worried about track grip. The ZHP sees use all year (with the exception of the few days when we have snow-covered roadways). I am a spirited driver-- not hard on the brakes, but definitely like pushing through the corners and twisties.

Decision Points: Used the following priorities in order-- 1) cost 1a) grip 2) steering response 3) straight line tracking 4) Comfort/road noise

After doing a ton of research, I settled on these tires based in large part on the video review I saw on TireRack.com (http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-4193730-10549527).

Use so far: About 150 miles of mixed-condition driving. I've driven local roads and highway in the rain and on dry pavement.

Initial impressions: First off, tires are significantly quieter than either the Bridgestone Potenza RE040s that they replaced or the Ventus V4s that I had on the 325i. They also offer a slightly more comfortable ride.

Steering response is immediate-- exactly what I expected after the TireRack review.

Straight line tracking and center line feel is also very good with no wandering or tramlining.

Dry grip is very, very good-- especially for an all season tire with a UTQG treadwear grade of 420. These are fun tires and really feel like summer tires to me.

Wet grip is impressive as well-- I took a wide-lane highway off ramp in the rain last night and purposely pushed her to the point of traction-break. Took a lot of effort on my part to get her to break loose-- very happy here.

All this being said, it's very early. I'll follow up on this after a few thousand miles with some updated information.

As a side note for anyone who is thinking about these, Kumho is offering a $50 rebate on the purchase of four tires until the end of November.

Update: December 14, 2011, 2,500 miles on tires

Just wanted to share my thoughts after a few months and a few thousand miles.

I am extremely satisfied with these tires. Dry and wet traction remains very good, and the ride comfort and noise level are unchanged. I have noticed no change in grip now that the temps have been down in the 20s at night.

Still waiting for the first light snow just to see how they do, although I typically just leave her garaged when there's snow on the ground.

Also a quick share on wheel alignment-- I passed on an alignment when I bought these. My previous set had uneven inner-shoulder wear, but I attributed that to bad CABs.

Well, 2,500 in on these and I eyeballed the tread wear-- looked good. Took a tire tread depth gauge to them just to make sure, and sure as sh^t, i had a about 1/32 extra wear on the inner shoulder.

Next set, I'll just get an alignment when I get the tires (like I should have done this time).

Update: August 2013, 16,000 miles on tires

Just a quick update.

I'm around 16k miles on these now. Just checked the tread depth:

Fronts are at 9/32 (started at 10.5/32), rears are at 7/32 (started at 11/32). Tires are wearing evenly meaning I'm still looking at plenty of life in these things.

Couldn't be happier with these tires.

[danewilson77]

Good news.

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[Mtnman]

150 miles? Keith...drive more, faster! What was your out the door price on these btw?

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[danewilson77]

150 miles? Keith...drive more, faster! What was your out the door price on these btw?

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KG gets baller pricing.

:keith

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[kayger12]

150 miles? Keith...drive more, faster! What was your out the door price on these btw?

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Haha-- I'm trying, brother!

My out-the-door won't apply, as I had a hook at my local installer and was owed a favor.

TireRack.com (http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-4193730-10549527) for tires and shipping, plus $25 per tire for install and balance would have totaled $772 less $50 mail-in rebate.

Really digging these things so far. Will have another couple of hundred put on them by the end of the weekend.

[Whitexi]

I was just going to ask if you got a rebate, Im definitely grabbing a set of these.

[johnrando]

Haha-- I'm trying, brother!

My out-the-door won't apply, as I had a hook at my local installer and was owed a favor.

TireRack for tires and shipping, plus $25 per tire for install and balance would have totaled $772 less $50 mail-in rebate.

Really digging these things so far. Will have another couple of hundred put on them by the end of the weekend.

:thumbsup

[mikeyb74]

Are these AST or ASX? I've run several sets of ASXs on my e46 and on my 03 Altima 3.5 Se. The set on the Altima I got almost 60K out of them.

[danewilson77]

Are these AST or ASX? I've run several sets of ASXs on my e46 and on my 03 Altima 3.5 Se. The set on the Altima I got almost 60K out of them.

Neither....

Dees: Kumho Ecsta 4X (Ultra High Performance All-Season)

[mikeyb74]

Neither....

Dees: Kumho Ecsta 4X (Ultra High Performance All-Season)

Never heard of them and I sell abunch of different Kumhos.

[danewilson77]

Never heard of them and I sell abunch of different Kumhos.

They....are.....new.

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[mikeyb74]

They....are.....new.

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That explains it! I'm familiar with the Solus, SPT, AST, ASX, and MX lines.

[kayger12]

Never heard of them and I sell abunch of different Kumhos.

Believe they've only been available since July. Supposed to be the eventual replacement for the ASX. http://www.moderntiredealer.com/News/Story/2011/01/Kumho-takes-on-the-industry-with-Ecsta-4X.aspx

[Whitexi]

Still going good keith? Im getting ready to place my order this week most likely.

[Mike V]

That explains it! I'm familiar with the Solus, SPT, AST, ASX, and MX lines.

You're a bit behind the times. :) Even the MX has been replaced with the XS. I have the XS on my E36 M3 and RX-7. They are great tires if you're looking for a grippy summer tire. I was a big fan of the MX too.

[kayger12]

Still going good keith? Im getting ready to place my order this week most likely.

Absolutely love them, Ryan.

Lots of rain since my last post. Very happy with them.


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[Whitexi]

Cool, that's nice to hear there better than expected.

[Whitexi]

I ordered them last night, figured ill have them on hand to be put on once I run my current goodyears down a bit more.

[kayger12]

Good deal. :chuck

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I ordered them last night, figured ill have them on hand to be put on once I run my current goodyears down a bit more.

Ryan, if you used the Tirerack.com affiliate link (http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-4193730-10376887), thanks. Someone did use it yesterday. But it doesn't show the order. Just shows that someone bought something. If that was you, thanks, sir!

[Whitexi]

Yes It must be me, I almost bought them without useing it got to the end almost but then backed out and started over thorugh the link lol. I was hoping that it did work. Im glad it did Markus.

Can't wait for these goodyears to be over with so I can take my car to a new Indy mechanic my family found to have them put on.

[danewilson77]

Any moar update KG?

[Whitexi]

Mine are awesome. So quiet and handle well. Balance much better than the last pair.

[kayger12]

Mine are awesome. So quiet and handle well. Balance much better than the last pair.

What he said, hehe.

Very happy with them. I will definitely purchase them again.

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[danewilson77]

OK.....damn. Not one negative thing to say?

Personally, I've liked every set of Khumo's I've ever owned.

[kayger12]

OK.....damn. Not one negative thing to say?

Personally, I've liked every set of Khumo's I've ever owned.

Honestly, I have nothing negative yet.

It hasn't been super-cold yet and I haven't had any snow to drive in yet, so there's a chance I could be unhappy with some of the tire characteristics under those conditions.

I'll update once we get either here. Ryan is definitely likely to experience both before I do.

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[danewilson77]

Ok.kg.thx

[Whitexi]

The only thing i don't care for is the non availability of a lower speed rating. Available only in W where I would have wanted a H rated tire. That will effect increased wear and possible freezing in extremely low temps. I want to see how they deal with snow but otherwise there great.

[goofiefoot]

Looks like I'll be jumping on board this train, too.

I had a lengthy conversation with my local Discount Tire guy, and had decided on the Continental DWSs, hoping for a decent combo of tread life and performance. The Kumho's were a close second. He called me back this morning and told me the Conti's were on backorder for the rears, so I took a leap of faith and put the order in on these. I should have them installed on Thursday.

Sounds like I should be pleased with them.

[kayger12]

Looks like I'll be jumping on board this train, too.

I had a lengthy conversation with my local Discount Tire guy, and had decided on the Continental DWSs, hoping for a decent combo of tread life and performance. The Kumho's were a close second. He called me back this morning and told me the Conti's were on backorder for the rears, so I took a leap of faith and put the order in on these. I should have them installed on Thursday.

Sounds like I should be pleased with them.

You won't be disappointed. Just did a nearly 300 mile round trip yesterday and commented several times on what a nice, quiet ride I had combined with great grip on the off ramps and corners. Love these tires.

[echo46]

My Bridgestones are wearing fast, so I was thinking either the Kumhos or the hankooks. However, you guys are convincing me.

[goofiefoot]

Installed today. I'll check back and report when I get some miles on them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/jasongoode/2004%20BMW%20330i%20ZHP/0a2cb70f.jpg

[kayger12]

Edited my original post with a 2,500 mile update.

[danewilson77]

I would think .0005" could be due to how much force you use, and how far the rubber is compressed, with the tread wear tool.

[kayger12]

I would think .0005" could be due to how much force you use, and how far the rubber is compressed, with the tread wear tool.

Agreed. I tried to be conscious of that. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure.

Either way, she's going in tomorrow morning for an alignment.

Better safe than ruined tires...

[danewilson77]

Damn bro.......if you're worried about .0005 over 2500 miles.....I will not buy the tread wear indicator I was going to buy.

As a matter of fact....I will never look at my tires again.....unless applying tire dressing or cleaning the rims.:shifty

30,000/2,500 = 12 > 12 x .0005" = .006" (if wear is linear over 30k miles). Can we feel .006"? IDK.

Good on ya for being proactive though.

[kayger12]

I'm an idiot, DW. I'm thinking it would help if I posted the measurements in the correct units. :facepalm

The tire gauge is measuring 32nds of an inch. I don't know where the hell I was getting thousandths from. The outer shoulder is at 9/32. The inner shoulder is at 8/32-- meaning that over 2,500 miles I have 1/32 more wear on the inner than the outer.

Assuming if I didn't address that, by 10,000 miles I'm at 6/32 remaining on the outer and 2/32 remaining on the inner.

[danewilson77]

OK......so 1/32nd's diff....in 2500 miles.....is 12/32nds....in 30000 miles.....or 3/8th's of an inch difference between tires. Yeah....that would def be appreciable. well done KG.

No idiots here. You knew what you were talking about.....I did not.:)

As a side note....the stock camber setup on our whips, makes wear more predominant on the inner edge. Are you going to let them punch pins on the FSM's and take all the camber out?

[kayger12]

It's going to the stealer. I'm going to explain to them the wear and let them do whatever they need to do. I'll ask about that.

I'm still way behind the curve in my knowledge of suspension mods/adjustments on these things.

Appreciate the info.

[Ryans323i]

That is some significant wear. Hopefully your dealer can accurately diagnose that and get it rectified. More aggressive wear on the interior of the tire is a common symptom of too much negative camber (noticeable on significantly stanced cars), but it's been my understanding (through education from my tire guy, also a bmw lover) that our cars only have "so" much adjustment. Not enough (negative or positive adjustment) to cause that much uneven wear in such a short time. So my next guess is your fronts are "toed out", an alignment will rectify this. (This is with assumption that it's your front tires that are unevenly worn.) During the alignment there are specs they'll use, obviously, but if you have them "toe in" a little, your car will track better (as in going in a straight line) and could compensate for the uneven wear over time.

Camber, Toe and even Caster are scarey confusing words to me. This this tutorial helped me understand a lot, here (http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html).

[kayger12]

Great link, Ryan. Thanks for that.

[danewilson77]

More aggressive wear on the interior of the tire is a common symptom of too much negative camber (noticeable on significantly stanced cars),

Disagree with this but its all good.

I think you could take a factory sport suspension spec'd E46, and normal wear is "more wear on inner side of tire" due to normal camber settings.



Curious to see what the stealer says. Good luck KG.

[danewilson77]

Us...with perfect alignment.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/camber-1.jpg

[Ryans323i]

Disagree with this but its all good.

I think you could take a factory sport suspension spec'd E46, and normal wear is "more wear on inner side of tire" due to normal camber settings.



Curious to see what the stealer says. Good luck KG.

I agree with you Dane, more wear on the inner side will be noticed over the entire life of the tire. But as I mentioned, the significance amount of wear in such a short time is not a symptom of factory specs. This amount of wear in a short period of time would usually be seen in cars that are significantly stanced.

Example:

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStq0q9eNGQD7TOMo7YP0ylhG_URmTvJ 4m1QauB7I9c8jm600x_

[danewilson77]

I agree with you Dane, more wear on the inner side will be noticed over the entire life of the tire. But as I mentioned, the significance amount of wear in such a short time is not a symptom of factory specs. This amount of wear in a short period of time would usually be seen in cars that are significantly stanced.

Example:

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStq0q9eNGQD7TOMo7YP0ylhG_URmTvJ 4m1QauB7I9c8jm600x_

Yep....agree.

The only way around it is to punch pin and nearly zero camber.....and try to get as close to zero as possible in rear.

[Ryans323i]

Yeah, which is no fun!

[danewilson77]

Yeah, which is no fun!

+ 1

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[kayger12]

ZHP is at the dealer.

Love the service advisor- he comments on how good the car looks, and then tells me that he assumes I don't want them touching it to wash it, lol.

I'm over at the diner across the street clogging my arteries waiting to hear.

Update to follow.



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[kayger12]

All done.

Alignment was off. No other suspension issues.

They didn't have to do anything radical.

Would my change out of the CABs have done anything?

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[danewilson77]

Good deal.

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[Mtnman]

I would think doing the cabs could easily affect alignment. Especially dependant upon how hard u were hitting them with the pickle fork!

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[danewilson77]

Found out some pretty good info on CAB/CA install last night as I was doing some light reading....

The 'A', 'B' measurements were news to me...

http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/06/73/30

[kayger12]

Interesting find.

[BCS_ZHP]

Keith,
Based on your rave review, I just ordered a set of 4X's from TireRack (via the ZHP link), they should arrive tomorrow or the next day. And pieced together a usable set of 135s over the last 6 months, so the son's car will be getting a new look by the end of the week.
Bruce

[kayger12]

Good deal, Bruce. I think you'll/he'll be quite pleased with them.

Was out driving in some chilly, rainy, slop today and they are nice and sure-footed.

Couldn't be happier with these things at this point.

[danewilson77]

Good deal, Bruce. I think you'll/he'll be quite pleased with them.

Was out driving in some chilly, rainy, slop today and they are nice and sure-footed.

Couldn't be happier with these things at this point.

Bruce/KG.... What was the UTQG on those?

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[kayger12]

420-- and they are damn grippy for a 420.

[danewilson77]

420-- and they are damn grippy for a 420.

Copy... Perfect.

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[BCS_ZHP]

TireRack.com (http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-4193730-10549527) is amazing - I ordered at 9:15 am yesterday, they arrived at 12:15 today - only 27 hours. Trip to the local tire guy and left the wheels & tires for mounting & balancing, just installed and took it out for the test ride. Didn't try any super challenging roads but the quietness over the worn Michelin P/S is amazing. And definitely need a front end alignment, will get that in the next day or two. Changing from stock ZSP 7 spokes 17's to 135's is a much prettier look too.

[kayger12]

Good deal. Looking forward to your feedback after you get on them a little.

[kayger12]

Just a quick update.

I'm around 16k miles on these now. Just checked the tread depth:

Fronts are at 9/32 (started at 10.5/32), rears are at 7/32 (started at 11/32). Tires are wearing evenly meaning I'm still looking at plenty of life in these things.

Couldn't be happier with these tires.

[BCS_ZHP]

Wow, talk about resurrecting the dead. I originally put these on an '01 325ci and then a month later an '04 ZHP coupe dropped in my lap. Did a wheel/tire swap to keep the newest tires on that ZHP. Add 13K miles and the rears were worn, like at 4-5/32nds, the fronts were 7-8/32nds. I sold the car in Sept 2012 with those tires to John in Atlanta, I told him he had maybe another 5K left in the tires (I think he has since replaced his tires). Performance of the tires was fine but the quick wear surprised me and soured me on Kumho. Though I have a mixed bag of tires on our vehicles now, through the trials of Kumho, Michelin, Continental DWS, etc., I am now a devoted DWS fan. I put a set of DWSs on the x5 at 23.5K miles, its at 41K now and even the rears have at least another 10K left in them. And my wife GiGi "Mario" has been the primary driver, she's normally not kind to a set of tires.

[kayger12]

Interesting. Apparently I'm a little easier on tires.

I should get 30k+ out of these rears at this rate.

I'm not a hard accelerator. It's all corners for me.

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[BCS_ZHP]

KG,
GiGi has too speeds, full throttle or full brake, no kidding. She calls it "zipping" the kids to sports practices. I have been amazed that the ceramics from Ray have done so well, almost 30K on those pads and they're way above half life remaining. And when I try to tease my wife about her aggressive driving style, either I get the quick single finger salute or she tells me she pays her own speeding tickets so mind my own business. And I do.

[kayger12]

KG,
GiGi has too speeds, full throttle or full brake, no kidding. She calls it "zipping" the kids to sports practices. I have been amazed that the ceramics from Ray have done so well, almost 30K on those pads and they're way above half life remaining. And when I try to tease my wife about her aggressive driving style, either I get the quick single finger salute or she tells me she pays her own speeding tickets so mind my own business. And I do.

Lol, yeah, I'd stick with the "yes dear" approach on that one, haha.

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[Au1994]

Ok, silly question and should be easy to answer...are these Run Flats or not? When I bought the ZHP it had darn near brand new tires on it (rears still had the red stripe on the tread) but have read conflciting reports on the interwebs...some say yes, some say no as to RFT. There is nothing on the sidewall as is on the Bridgestones on my F30.

No donut so I don't want to be without a spare but don't want to replace brand new tires either!

[ELCID86]

The ones on my son's car are not run flat.

Considered a spare for piece of mind?

[Au1994]

The ones on my son's car are not run flat.

Considered a spare for piece of mind?

That's probably what I'll do. Better safe than sorry before I get off on a drive up in the North GA mountains and have an issue. Seem to be good tires but I don't have that many miles on 'em.

Thanks for the info!

[ELCID86]

That's probably what I'll do. Better safe than sorry before I get off on a drive up in the North GA mountains and have an issue. Seem to be good tires but I don't have that many miles on 'em.

Thanks for the info!
In my opinion run flats are no good for some of the damage that can occur and leave you stranded.
Maybe this too: http://jalopnik.com/everyone-hates-run-flat-tires-464884753

[kayger12]

Ecsta 4Xs are not run flats

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[MiniD]

I am thinking about buying these for my E90. Still recommend by you guys? The negative reviews I've seen tend to be toward their performance in snow. That's not a major concern for me.

I want a tire that is good in the rain and quiet.

[ZHPESQ]

I have these and so does my son (mine a ZHP, his a 330XI) and we both love them--even in light snow they do quite well.

[kayger12]

I feel like I need to bookend this thread. Finally put these out to pasture Friday.

After 5.5 years and 35,675 miles, I was very happy with these. The only negatives: 1) dry and wet traction really degraded noticeably as I approached the wear bars the last 5K miles; 2) they did not make the 40K expected tread life.

I thought about the Ectsa 4x IIs that are out now as they again won the cheaper all season UHP class in the Tire Rack review, but opted to go with the Michelin PS A/S 3+ this time.

I'll give those a proper review once the suspension refresh is done next week.

Here's to the next 6 years of ZHP bliss...

[johnrando]

Nice. Good to see you around.

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[danewilson77]

Nice catch up KG. Thanks for thinking of us.

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[kayger12]

Nice. Good to see you around.

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Nice catch up KG. Thanks for thinking of us.

Sent from my S8+

Thanks gents. Always good to see you two.