Lifter tick after autocross

[Mr Paul]

Hi guys, yesterday I did my second autocross in my ZHP. After run number 1 I brought the car back to the grid, let it idle for ~30 seconds and shut it down. When I restarted it ~10 minutes later I had some lifter tick that went away after 20 seconds of idling. After run # 2 & 3 I let it idle for 30 seconds in the grid and when I restarted the tick was even louder. After run #4 I could easily hear the tick after I finished the 4th run, and my 30 seconds of idling didn't make it go away.

After I completed my work assignment I fired it up and it ticked for a couple of seconds and then went away and hasn't come back since.

Couple of things to note:

I did an autocross 2 weeks ago and I got zero lifter tick. The course was wet and slick so g-forces through the corners were much less.

The oil level is right where it should be on the dipstick and has less than 1000 miles on it. I am using the BMW oil and BMW filter I bought through Tischer.

My car is an '03 sedan with 85,000 miles.

Opinions on how to solve the tick? It is definitely disconcerting hearing that noise coming from the motor.

Paul

[zj96sc]

Interesting. What weight oil? You say BMW so I'm assuming 5W-30?

Times like this make me wish we had an oil pressure gauge. What kind of RPM did you see in the autox? Are you sure it was lifter tick and not rod knock? How long have you owned your car?

[az3579]

Hi guys, yesterday I did my second autocross in my ZHP. After run number 1 I brought the car back to the grid, let it idle for ~30 seconds and shut it down. When I restarted it ~10 minutes later I had some lifter tick that went away after 20 seconds of idling. After run # 2 & 3 I let it idle for 30 seconds in the grid and when I restarted the tick was even louder. After run #4 I could easily hear the tick after I finished the 4th run, and my 30 seconds of idling didn't make it go away.

After I completed my work assignment I fired it up and it ticked for a couple of seconds and then went away and hasn't come back since.

Couple of things to note:

I did an autocross 2 weeks ago and I got zero lifter tick. The course was wet and slick so g-forces through the corners were much less.

The oil level is right where it should be on the dipstick and has less than 1000 miles on it. I am using the BMW oil and BMW filter I bought through Tischer.

My car is an '03 sedan with 85,000 miles.

Opinions on how to solve the tick? It is definitely disconcerting hearing that noise coming from the motor.

Paul

Lifter tick is normal. Some autocrossers like to put in extra oil to mitigate it, but it's going to happen.

When it ticks, run the rpms up to get some oil circulating.

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[Mr Paul]

Interesting. What weight oil? You say BMW so I'm assuming 5W-30?

Times like this make me wish we had an oil pressure gauge. What kind of RPM did you see in the autox? Are you sure it was lifter tick and not rod knock? How long have you owned your car?


Yep, 5W-30.

I wish for not only an oil pressure gauge but an oil temp gauge too. RPM never really got above 5500 I would think. I only looked at the tach once and that's about where it was at, it was on one of the faster sections of the course too. It definitely sounded like lifter tick to me. I've had the car for 6 months, this is the first time I've ever heard anything out of the ordinary with it, and I am always listening for weird sounds that might indicate a problem

[az3579]

This is caused by the oil sloshing around in the oil pan. When you're cornering hard, the oil goes to one side of the pan, and as a result, certain parts get a little starved for oil. I heard an oil pan baffle would help with this, but I've also heard that the tick still exists for some people even with it installed.

I just chalk it up to it being a BMW, and I've accepted the fact that my car, like any other BMW I've seen at an auto-x, will do it. :dunno

[Ryans323i]

Lifter tick is normal. Some autocrossers like to put in extra oil to mitigate it, but it's going to happen.

When it ticks, run the rpms up to get some oil circulating.

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BP is correct here.

I experienced a tick the few times I autox'd. I also get it after very spirited drives. Did some research and it's normal. A little oil (about 1/8-1/4 of a quart) takes care of it for me.

[Mike V]

Every E36 M3 I've autocrossed has done this after each run, starting at run #2. I only autocrossed my zhp once and it didn't have any lifter tick, probably because I couldn't get any grip with the stupid open diff. :)

[Gheybe]

I got this pretty loud the night before last. Then last night my car died on the way to a shoot. My alternator is out, but now I know why the lifter was ticking.

Thanks.

[Mike V]

I got this pretty loud the night before last. Then last night my car died on the way to a shoot. My alternator is out, but now I know why the lifter was ticking.

Thanks.

I've been so busy with work and school lately that I have been an irresponsible car owner. I pulled up to the gate on base and realized my engine was ticking. Of course I immediately think it's a vanos issue. I checked the oil before going on a road trip this past Saturday and it was barely showing on the dipstick! Yikes, I bet that's why it was ticking. I felt so bad. I wish these cars had a level sensor like the E30s do for when slackers like me get complacent.

[telijah]

I've been so busy with work and school lately that I have been an irresponsible car owner. I pulled up to the gate on base and realized my engine was ticking. Of course I immediately think it's a vanos issue. I checked the oil before going on a road trip this past Saturday and it was barely showing on the dipstick! Yikes, I bet that's why it was ticking. I felt so bad. I wish these cars had a level sensor like the E30s do for when slackers like me get complacent.

Shouldn't your oil light have come on? I know if I am even a quart low it comes on...

[M0nk3y]

Lifter tick is normal...and notorious for BMWs.

People always tell me to check my car when I pull into grid...of course it's the tick going nuts. Happened on both engines.

[zj96sc]

That is pretty crazy. If the lifters are losing enough pressure to collapse I don't even want to think about what the head is getting. I would do everything I could to eliminate this from occurring....baffles, extra oil, etc.

[az3579]

I wish these cars had a level sensor like the E30s do for when slackers like me get complacent.

They do. If yours didn't come on, it probably failed. Oil level sensors are a common failure item on E46's.

[danewilson77]

They do. If yours didn't come on, it probably failed. Oil level sensors are a common failure item on E46's.

Yup.

Yellow = level

Red = buy a new car

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[az3579]

Red = S54 swap.

Fixed. :)

[Ryans323i]

They do. If yours didn't come on, it probably failed. Oil level sensors are a common failure item on E46's.

Mine's never come on. Guess I need to add that to the "to do" list. Didn't realize they were supposed to be that sensitive.

I found these 2 DIY's for future reference:

http://www.bokchoys.com/differential/diy_oil_level_sensor.htm
http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8482240

[gr330zhp]

Perfectly normal. Most cars will have lifter tick after an autocross run. Most motors are not used to that high rpms in that quick of a time

[Mr Paul]

Perfect, thanks for the responses! I can rest easy at night now.

[Fried_Chicken]

Just experienced lifter tick. Freaked me out and ended my autocross day prematurely -_-.

Is there a risk to the engine? Is it worth switching to a different grade oil?

[az3579]

Just experienced lifter tick. Freaked me out and ended my autocross day prematurely -_-.

Is there a risk to the engine? Is it worth switching to a different grade oil?


It is normal... it's pretty common with some BMWs. My ZHP did it all the time when I autocrossed it.
I wouldn't worry about it. Some say overfill it by a quart, but that's a lot of overfill, so I wouldn't bother.

The solution would be to get an oil pan baffle that would help keep the oil where it needs to be during hard cornering.

[ryankokesh]

I got some tick the one time I did an autocross class. Freaked me out because I hadn't heard about it at the time. (The instructor told me it was normal, but I didn't believe him :) )

Any chance this stuff would help? Liqui Moly seems to make quality stuff... :dunno

http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2770-Hydraulic-Additive/dp/B0096Y6XPC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454417564&sr=8-1&keywords=liqui+moly+lifter

[az3579]

I got some tick the one time I did an autocross class. Freaked me out because I hadn't heard about it at the time. (The instructor told me it was normal, but I didn't believe him :) )

Any chance this stuff would help? Liqui Moly seems to make quality stuff... :dunno

http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2770-Hydraulic-Additive/dp/B0096Y6XPC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454417564&sr=8-1&keywords=liqui+moly+lifter

The problem isn't with the quality of the oil. The oil sloshes around in the pan and sometimes under hard cornering, there isn't any oil to pick up because it's on the other side of the pan. The ticking goes away after a few minutes. I like to rev it up while sitting to get some oil into the engine.

[ryankokesh]

The problem isn't with the quality of the oil. The oil sloshes around in the pan and sometimes under hard cornering, there isn't any oil to pick up because it's on the other side of the pan. The ticking goes away after a few minutes. I like to rev it up while sitting to get some oil into the engine.

Hmm, maybe my ticking was different. I only noticed it when I pulled off the track and idled, so I didn't expect that it was due to cornering. I'm definitely no expert, though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[NoVAphotog]

The problem isn't with the quality of the oil. The oil sloshes around in the pan and sometimes under hard cornering, there isn't any oil to pick up because it's on the other side of the pan. The ticking goes away after a few minutes. I like to rev it up while sitting to get some oil into the engine.

I was told the first time I heard that to add extra oil before autox events, since then I haven't noticed it after autox when putting in an extra half quart or quart of oil.

[Fried_Chicken]

It is normal... it's pretty common with some BMWs. My ZHP did it all the time when I autocrossed it.
I wouldn't worry about it. Some say overfill it by a quart, but that's a lot of overfill, so I wouldn't bother.

The solution would be to get an oil pan baffle that would help keep the oil where it needs to be during hard cornering.

Even if it’s normal, is it bad for the engine? Is the camshaft getting starved of oil when it’s most important?

[az3579]

I was told the first time I heard that to add extra oil before autox events, since then I haven't noticed it after autox when putting in an extra half quart or quart of oil.

I used to put a quart extra in (because I know my car would use it up anyway) and still had the ticking.


Even if it’s normal, is it bad for the engine? Is the camshaft getting starved of oil when it’s most important?

Well, oil starvation is never a good thing, but the minor ticking that you get after an autox, which goes away after a few minutes, will probably have a nominal effect on overall engine wear. I'm sure you can do years worth of autox and be fine in the long run. I'm not an engineer though, and definitely can't comment because I stopped doing autox a few years ago due to a serious lack of seat time.

I can tell you that my engine runs perfectly fine after many many track days though! 239k miles. I did autox religiously (2x a month) for the first 3 years I had the car.

[ryankokesh]

I used to put a quart extra in (because I know my car would use it up anyway) and still had the ticking.



Well, oil starvation is never a good thing, but the minor ticking that you get after an autox, which goes away after a few minutes, will probably have a nominal effect on overall engine wear. I'm sure you can do years worth of autox and be fine in the long run. I'm not an engineer though, and definitely can't comment because I stopped doing autox a few years ago due to a serious lack of seat time.

I can tell you that my engine runs perfectly fine after many many track days though! 239k miles. I did autox religiously (2x a month) for the first 3 years I had the car.

I love it when you post your milage, BP... inspires confidence that this thing probably isn't going anywhere anytime soon :)

[Fried_Chicken]

I love it when you post your milage, BP... inspires confidence that this thing probably isn't going anywhere anytime soon :)
As it should be.

[05Imola]

I got it too. First time was 3 days after I bought it and took it autocrossing. Been adding an extra quart every time I take it autocrossing since my car drinks it anyways. Hasn't done it since but it sure was scary. My car also did it after I park it up and won't really go away for a while. Don't worry about it lol

[IsaacAndres23]

Mine has the notorious "ZHP lifter tick" as well. It's had it for as long as I've owned it (a little over 2 years). I went crazy for the first few months doing research, replacing gaskets, trying recommended techniques (revving engine for certain amount of time), asking forum members, everything lead to it being "normal" or simply to replacing the faulty lifter(s), which of course is a timely project.. Only difference with my car is that it is always ticking.. I only wished it went away after a few minutes!


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[CarbonZHP]

I got lifter tick after a 5 minute run on Mulholland with rpm over 4k the entire time. Scared the hell out of me. Holding rpms at 2k for 10 seconds made it go away

[BMWCurves]

Mine has the notorious "ZHP lifter tick" as well. It's had it for as long as I've owned it (a little over 2 years). I went crazy for the first few months doing research, replacing gaskets, trying recommended techniques (revving engine for certain amount of time), asking forum members, everything lead to it being "normal" or simply to replacing the faulty lifter(s), which of course is a timely project.. Only difference with my car is that it is always ticking.. I only wished it went away after a few minutes!

How loud is the tick? Our engines do make a fair amount of lifter chatter but that's normal.

[IsaacAndres23]

I will post a clip later today.


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[IsaacAndres23]

https://vimeo.com/154379107
It's not TOO loud, in fact not everyone can hear it, but of course I can. Took it to the dealer a while back and they told me they couldn't hear anything.


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[BMWCurves]

Huh. I hear it, that's definitely not the standard noisy valves I'm referring to. Not sure what that is. VANOS? I haven't had the VANOS issue before so I don't know exactly what it sounds like, but someone else would.

[IsaacAndres23]

Definitely not vanos, I've put a stethoscope to the vanos housing and no sounds. Ticking comes from lifters area so I'm sure it's the lifters.


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[CarbonZHP]

Thats actually the sound I had too. Almost sounds like trans when i had it, but went away after holding revs up for a couple seconds in neutral. Are you auto or manual?

[IsaacAndres23]

Manual. I've tried holding the rev. May try again.


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