Wheel/alignment issues

[Matt]

Also posted on bmwmafia

Bought my 325i with 120k miles on it. On the test drive, I noticed a very small vibration at certain speeds. It got worse at 130k, and so I started investigating. My first step was to re balance my wheels. As I was doing this, I noticed that one of my rims was bent. Bought a new set of rims, same problem. Thought it was the tires, so I bought and installed new winter tires on the bent rims, and put the other tires on the new rims. The winter tires solved the problem with the vibration, so I ruled out the bent rims as the problem. Summer rolls back around, and when I pulled off the winter wheels, I noticed that the outsides are chopped a little bit, but dont pay too much attention to it.

Ever since I put the summer wheels back on, the noise/vibration has slowly gotten worse. Well, today I pulled the wheels off and noticed that they are chopping pretty bad, also. Assuming that my alignment is the cause, I pull out the ruler and measure it myself. From my rudimentary alignment measuring skills, I ascertained that my front wheels toe in about 1/8", and my back wheels toe out about the same amount.

Is this normal? Can I fix this on my own? Is 1/8" enough to chop my tires?

Front inside
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/mattc119/DSC05089.jpg

Rear inside
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/mattc119/DSC05091.jpg

[danewilson77]

I would just start with an alignment...

[llll1l1ll]

I would just start with an alignment...

+1

Then start with suspension components. Were the CABs ever replaced?

[Audi 0000]

Your tires are cupped, you need to replace them (no fixing that), and get an alignment to correct your problem. That will cause a vibration, and usually alot of noise too as it gets worse. Your measurements are bad also, you should be slight toe-in in the rear, and zero or slight toe-out in the front. I am not sure what the actual specs are for your specific car, but this is pretty much normal for all cars. I just aligned my Zhp (and mounted new tires) a month ago due to improper tire wear from the previous owner. The car drives and handles much better now. As others have said, check your bushings and ball joints ect also, and replace as needed.

If you where closer I could throw that on the alignment rack for you. Good luck with it.

[Oli77]

While searching for an answer to my cupping tires (noisy as a booger wooger at 17-35 mph) I arrived here (where my friends live).

Car has 76k miles, all original stuff except for HD Meyle CABs and a replaced control arm about 1 year ago.

Alignment you say? Do you guys recommend a dealer for this job? Approximate price?

[danewilson77]

What caused the cupping? Tires? Suspension?

Read the bottom of my initial post.......below.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1830-BMW-E46-ZHP-DIY-and-Preventative-maintenance

[Oli77]

All suspension pieces are stock. There is no pull left or right. Very little vibration at 70-80 mph (nothing big).
There has never been an accident or hit of the curb.
The tires have 16K miles on them and they are cupping similarly to OP's pics (inside of each tire - yes I rotated them about 8K miles ago).
There is no noise when I go over bumps or potholes.
I do not "think" anything is wrong with suspension components but what do I know?
I was thinking the car needs an alignment. I could be wrong and value everyone's input on that.
Dealer quoted 4 wheel alignment at 150$.

[danewilson77]

Did you mention what tires? Cheap tires will do this....or are a cause. That's why I just got new ones....

My alignment was $152.....including tax.

[AzkotikBMW]

Also, if parts of your suspension are a starting to wear (FCABs, Tie Rods, Ball Joints) it can cause play in the steering, which in turn will cause the vibration you are talking about. I had a worn tie rod on the front of my car and had to replace it because it was causing issues. I would check these before you do the alignment, because if you have to replace the tie rods/ball joints you'll have to get an alignment right after.

Most places you take your car for an alignment will be able to check the tie rods and ball joints for you. But, if you want to do it yourself:
1) Take the wheel off
2) Hold the rotor with both hands at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock.
3) Push/Pull on each side, if there is ANY play at all, you have worn tie rods
4) Repeat the same process with your hands at 12 and 6, if any play, your ball joints are to blame.

Hope this helps!

[Oli77]

Thanks dudes. Tires are Hankook Ventus HR II (came new with the car about 2 years ago - they probably are cheap).

I am completely unfamiliar with the anatomy and the names of suspension parts, but I have no play at all when I do the test Kyle mentions (know that from doing the brakes not that long ago).

Also as you could guess, my new winter tires do not make this thumpthumpthump noise.

Align?

I am very hopeful that the dealer will inspect every element of the suspension before aligning.

[danewilson77]

Align?

I am very hopeful that the dealer will inspect every element of the suspension before aligning.

Oli. Here's where I'm at with this. If you align.... And dealer points out issues, you will most def have to get it fixed there, then get it aligned.

I am positive they will point out issues, not only with your suspension., but in other areas as well.

Are you comfortable inspecting this stuff yourself, and would you be comfy doing the DIY repairs? If yes... Do this.... Inspect, repair, get new tires, then take to shop for alignment?

If no.... Take to shop, have them inspect, replace, new tires and alignment.

Sent from SIGFest-2012, USA on HTC via TTv2

[AzkotikBMW]

Oli. Here's where I'm at with this. If you align.... And dealer points out issues, you will most def have to get it fixed there, then get it aligned.

I am positive they will point out issues, not only with your suspension., but in other areas as well.

Are you comfortable inspecting this stuff yourself, and would you be comfy doing the DIY repairs? If yes... Do this.... Inspect, repair, get new tires, then take to shop for alignment?

If no.... Take to shop, have them inspect, replace, new tires and alignment.

Sent from SIGFest-2012, USA on HTC via TTv2

+1

[Oli77]

Well you put the finger on it Dane.

I am not comfortable with suspension DIY at all, and all my mafiosi brothers and sisters live 7-64.5 hours away.

If they find stuff, I will use that info to take car to another bmw shop I know in town ;). Dealer won't do alignment until that is fixed.

In the case they find nothing wrong, I will have it aligned.

[AzkotikBMW]

Sounds like a solid plan!

[danewilson77]

Sounds like a solid plan!

+1

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Oli77]

Back from dealer. They found nothing wrong with suspension components (you have to assume they know how to do that). So I went ahead with an alignment.
I will post numbers in my maintenance thread.
Time will tell if the changes they made will alleviate the cupping.

[danewilson77]

Copy. And you have new tires now...correct?

[Oli77]

Negative, plenty of life left in mine.

I read in your maintenance thread (post about cupping tires linking to 346fanatics) that you can mount the tire rotated 180 degrees (even directional ones, if you are doing this on the front axle only) and that within 2-3k miles the tire should regain normal wear.

I will wait to see if over the next few thousand miles, the irritating sound goes away.

The dealer (brags for being #2 in the nation in sales and customer satisfaction) told me that BMW recommends alignment yearly if car is driven daily.

As you said Dane, he also told me, in the most polite way, that my tires are not OEM and may be cheap hence the cupping.

PS, while waiting, I took pics of cars. I will post a new thread on that latter this weekend.

[danewilson77]

So the tires are cupped still? Just so yo know...there is nothing you can do to "UNCUP" your tires. Live with the noise, if you can. I could not.

[Oli77]

Yes they have a bit of feathering/cupping/scaloping on the inside edge.
I know, the noise is beaucoup annoying!
I hope they will smooth out over time. I'll let you know.

[Oli77]

...there is nothing you can do to "UNCUP" your tires.
I can think of spinning the back wheels a little now that the camber and toe are right.

Time will tell. I was thinking about taking one picture/month on the tire and following it, to see if you can uncup the tires.... hmmmmm..

[kayger12]

Unfortunately, you're stuck with the sound. They won't smooth out.

I'd just deal with it until the inside edge is out of rubber.

[Oli77]

Time will tell my friend, time will tell.

I'm going to start a thread to document the progress. Just took a picture of the feathering with a yard stick so I can come back periodically and report on progression.

[kayger12]

Time will tell my friend, time will tell.


Very true. I'll be happy to be wrong this time.

Looking forward to the updates.

Sent with Droid Fighter envy

[danewilson77]

Very true. I'll be happy to be wrong this time.

Looking forward to the updates.

Sent with Droid Fighter envy

Truth be told. The noise will only get worse.

I just threw 18k mile tires away for this reason.

Sent from SIGFest 2012, via TTv1.5.4

[Oli77]

I will report back.

[danewilson77]

I will report back.

Copy. It really can't harm
Anything to try.

Sent from SIGFest 2012, via TTv1.5.4

[Oli77]

Well the bosses are right again.

The sound continues 5 months post alignment.

I am going to rotate, see if the occasional spinning in the back has magically uncupped the tires some (I will put those in the front).