How long till you 'mastered' driving stick?

[GreenFrog]

I bought my ZHP at the end of June, so it's been about 2.5 months of ownership so far. It's also my first stick-shift car so I'm still learning how to perfect my technique.

I still have trouble going from 1st to 2nd smoothly and quickly. I mean, I can let the clutch out really slow to get a smooth shift, but I can't do it as quickly as I do from 2-3, 3-4, 4-5, etc. I also have the most trouble downshift/rev-matching from 3rd to 2nd. It's as if I have to hit the EXACT sweet spot to get a smooth downshift. Otherwise, it noticeably jerks.

When I'm shifting from 3 to 4 for example, the clutch goes in and out within a second. Is 1st to 2nd not designed to work that way? Any tips in general on how to drive stick smoothly? Also, how much gas do you give from a stop to start in 1st (i.e. what rpm range do you start to let out the clutch)?

Thanks!

[mimalmo]

Crack the window a bit and listen to the engine as you drive. That helped me learn and that was over 20 years ago.

[danewilson77]

Clutch stop and removal of CDV may help you.

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[kayger12]

CDV definitely seems to make 1st to 2nd a pain.

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[Hornung418]

Took me almost one week in my 944. My BMW was a little different for me, took me almost a month to get used to it and learn all of it's quirks.

Take your time and learn where the engine likes to spin at certain speeds in 2nd and 3rd gear. That was the key for me when rev matching. Then it becomes second nature after a while.

[static667]

CDV definitely seems to make 1st to 2nd a pain.

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^this.

Sent from my rooted Fascinate using Tapatalk.

[GreenFrog]

So it seems the CDV is the culprit.. I thought I was just bad at driving stick.. but knowing myself and how I learn new skills rather quickly (and I say this in the most humble way possible), I knew something was weird..

[M0nk3y]

Took me 6 months to learn on my old E46. But I was getting my license while trying to learn stick...which proved quite difficult.

When I got my E86, it took around a week max. It was more difficult because it's a heavier clutch. I'm still trying to rev-match...gas pedal isn't as sensitive as my E46 was.

[HokieZHP]

I initially learned on a 1970 MGB and then continued to practice on a Mini Cooper S Works. It took me about a month or two to get really good at it including hill starts. For some reason, it's hard to get a smooth 1st-2nd shift in the ZHP. I am getting better but it always seems to be rough unless the clutch is let out very slowly. Not sure what the CDV is, can someone elaborate on that?

[PKR]

Every car has a different feel. The CDV does NOT help things. BMW's habit of gearing 1st as a short gear doesn't help either, especially if you're a beginner. I was 10 yo when I first learned to drive stick - on a 1948 Jeep no less. Just the basics was the best way for me to get it down and shift smoothly but practice ... practice ... practice always helps.

[Gheybe]

This 330 is the most forgiving car I've ever driven. My clutch feel/travel is perfect for learning.

Now this wasn't where I learned. First car I ever drove that was stick was my dad's 67 Impala SS 4 speed. I had to spartan kick the clutch at every shift. A nightmare. Now after that I feel like I can drive anything that is stick. And that's been the case so far after something so hard, anything else feels really easy.

I wanna say it took me a couple of days to get it to be smooth, then another 2 weeks to get it down to be second nature for me in that car.

In the 330 it was about a few hours of driving it back to SD.

[MasterC17]

CDV Delete really smoothes things out from 1st to 2nd.

[kayger12]

Not sure what the CDV is, can someone elaborate on that?

Clutch Delay Valve. It's essentially a piece that acts as a choke point for the fluid in the clutch line so that no matter how quickly you release the clutch, the effect is delayed as the fluid's travel is, "delayed" as it waits to move through the choke point.

Many owners remove this valve and report a much more satisfying clutch response- especially first to second.

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[lilcdkey]

I got nearly perfect in my E36 in a week or two. That was also my first stick car.

[az3579]

So it seems the CDV is the culprit.. I thought I was just bad at driving stick.. but knowing myself and how I learn new skills rather quickly (and I say this in the most humble way possible), I knew something was weird..


Everyone's also overlooking the fact that the drive-by-wire system makes shifting harder as well, both on the upshift and downshift.
This is most noticeable with rev-matched downshifts; there is considerable lag in the throttle due to all the electronic mumbo-jumbo that has to happen before the throttle body says "hey, I got your signal!".

I've finally reached the point where I have pretty much mastered manual in almost any car. I'm an absolute fanatic when it comes to shifting smoothly, and my goal is to drive like I have passengers all the time; smooth regardless of the amount of passengers.

The auto-x course is a different story, and I revert to the equivalent of an SMG aggressive shift mode; I shift as fast as I can so I don't waste time. Luckily I only ever reach 2nd gear.



I learned to drive manual in a 75hp Russian car, a Lada 110i. The first time I drove a manual truly was on an E39 540i 6-speed, but the CDV in that car made it IMPOSSIBLE for me to get a smooth launch and shift. IMPOSSIBLE.

Then I brushed up in a Nissan 240SX, but that was a one-time thing.


I truly learned everything about manual driving in the Lada, in Budapest downtown traffic. The best training a person could possibly get.
Ever since then, I have had 0 issues adapting to whatever car I get into. I rev-match EVERYTHING because it's just so much fun!

I certainly wish I had a 100% shifting success rate though. I would say only about 6-7 out of 10 shifts are smooth to where you can't feel it, and only 1 or 2 of those shifts are smooth "enough" to pass as decent. I'm afraid it'll take the rest of my life to get anywhere near 90% success. lol

[VA//M3]

Coming from a 1978 porsche 924 and 944 turbos. I instantly knew there was something wrong with the way the clutch felt. I felt disconnected and sure enough the CDV was at fault and it was gone in less then a week into ownership. Then it was smooth sailing. 1st to 2nd was still an issue no matter what due to throttle lag.

However, throttle lag disappeared once I updated the ECU and everything engine wise was taken care of and triple checked. After that now the car feels as it should have felt when I bought it.

Going over all the sensor connections was the last piece of the puzzle in getting rid of all throttle lag along with tuning the clutch switches.

[GreenFrog]

I definitely want to get the CDV deleted and possibly get a tune (shark injector or AA). Are these mods worth it?

[danewilson77]

I definitely want to get the CDV deleted and possibly get a tune (shark injector or AA). Are these mods worth it?

Yes. Worth it.

Wait....

Define worth.

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[GreenFrog]

Yes. Worth it.

Wait....

Define worth.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

The cost to get these done. I'm not mechanically-inclined at all so if I get the CDV deleted, I will most definitely have it done by a repair shop specializing in BMWs. As for the shark injector.. aren't those like $500?

[danewilson77]

Shark is 3hundy I believe. Where do you live?

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[GreenFrog]

I'm in Bahston

[danewilson77]

I'm in Bahston

Bah.

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[nike001]

Took me ~1month. I still have troubles going 1-2 sometimes.. lol sometimes its shaky. I can do a smooth, non-agressive shift..and a really agressive one; the middle of the two is what gets me.

Rev matching is nothing to learn IMO. Just mash the gas to the floor very quick and that usually does it. Double-clutching usually means you have to keep the gas there a bit longer but still not that hard.

Another funny thing is.. ~2 months after getting it... I could launch PERFECTLY. Now, I it takes a lot more from me to get right.

[webster]

Shark injector and modified cdv were the first 2 mods on my list, both are totally worth it. Shark was $350 from turner (plus $90 for the battery charger), modified cdv was $40 from zeckenhausen

[SoarinZHP]

I drove a stick for 12 years and still didn't get it. I got tired of replacing the clutch every 30,000 miles. When I purchased my ZHP, I went with an automatic. I've had 4 months of problem free and smooth driving.

[nike001]

I drove a stick for 12 years and still didn't get it. I got tired of replacing the clutch every 30,000 miles. When I purchased my ZHP, I went with an automatic. I've had 4 months of problem free and smooth driving.:jawdrop:facepalm

[webster]

at least he's honest. i'd rather him be in an automatic, not raping the clutches of E46's for future owners...

[Gheybe]

About the tune.

Active Autowerke is on my car and I thank God everyday for it.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

^^ Love Gabe's car. The sound is the best part. Should have heard it on the morning of Bimmerfest. I could always tell when Gabe was getting on it. He owned the freeway.

[RITmusic2k]

I still have trouble going from 1st to 2nd smoothly and quickly. I mean, I can let the clutch out really slow to get a smooth shift, but I can't do it as quickly as I do from 2-3, 3-4, 4-5, etc.

As everybody has already stated, this is a common problem and is largely due to the CDV. But there's a little more going on here than just that.

You'll always find the 1-2 shift to be the trickiest, since that's the single largest change in ratio between two adjacent gears, e.g., 1st and 2nd are farther apart from each other than any other two gears are, so there's more of an RPM difference to overcome. Added to that is the fact that the synchros in these transmissions seem to be particularly "tight". That is to say, the RPM range in which a perfect rev-match will allow the shifter to fall right into the gate without resistance is very narrow.

I suffer from rev-matching mania, so I'm known to double-clutch even on my upshifts, and I find that it's easier for me to get into do the 1-2 by letting the stick come all the way into its neutral centered position before moving down into 2nd. This compound movement isn't the fastest way to change gears, but it does smooth things out a bit.