Suspension thoughts

[BCS_ZHP]

So I have the 2002 325iT with sports suspension and 135s, I'm thinking about the Bilstein PSS setup from Bimmerworld. I don't need to go radical, I like the current ride, but want to lower it an inch or so. And I'm too old to get harsh and punish my kidneys.

Thoughts/opinions??

Last consideration but its important since its the fiscal one -- Bimmerworld screwed up my last order royally (brakes - wrong rotors, discovered on a Sunday when I was in the middle of it), so they told me I get 15% off my next order. Thus their internet price of $1050 suddenly becomes $900, much more palatable. I think that includes everything I need, Dane please tell me if there's more I'm going to need.

[danewilson77]

Bilstein makes a good setup. Do that or KW V1's.....

Or....could even go with a cupkit.

[BCS_ZHP]

KWs and cup kit, you're talking Greek to me. Ricki would say -- splain Lucy

[bullfrogs_M3]

H&R Cup Kit - Reuses the tophats from your existing suspension as well as some other "stock" parts
http://www.urotuning.com/shop/images/hr_cup_kit_bmw_e46.jpg

KW (V1, V2, V3) - Complete coilover kit, comes with everything you need, full swap out of old and swap in new. Coilovers give the most complete control of ride height and quality (road feel)
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_79uI-S09oqg/SzFrmJh4-OI/AAAAAAAAAIg/Z9TcO65DyGg/KWV1-E46.jpg

* EDIT: Forgot to add the cost aspect of it:
Cup Kits will usually run around $600-700 or so
Coilover kits will usually run anywhere from $700 up to $2,000 or so.

[GMATT]

Bruce....really loving the V1's I installed. Low as you want, no punishment! Mod Bargins did them for $1150.00 ish ( hook up thru Dane LOL)

[danewilson77]

Yeah...LOL my ass!

Eli has KW's as well Bruce. He had V1's, then moved to V2's because he wanted adjustable dampening.

[VA//M3]

I've got the H&R sports cup kit. The ride isn't harsh IMO.

[johnrando]

I've got the H&R sports cup kit. The ride isn't harsh IMO.

You got that low from just the H&R kit? Also, curious as to why you chose the "sports" kit instead of the "racing" kit?

[RVAzhp]

Dane, why do you prefer the Silverlines vs the FK highsport? do you think the road conditions in VA are that bad that the stainless steel body is needed?

what about ST vs KW? i mean is the rust protection that big of a deal in a state like Virginia?

Also on my list are the Fortune Auto coilovers from the local guys http://www.fortune-auto.net/ They go for $1099 for their "comfort" series.

Lastly Vogtland coilovers, but i can't seem to find if their bodies are stainless steel or not.

essentially, these are all on my list of which do i really want over the next couple months when i sit down and purchase coilovers for the bimmer.


Any and all input would be appreciated. I basically want a good, street coilover that has the ability to go low, and also have a solid/semi comfortable drop. I will never track the car, just want a comfortable (as possible..) and low ride.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Bruce, I have really enjoyed the KW V2s that I've had on my various cars. Not a harsh ride. I could control height (getting very low if I wanted). I never had any quality control issues with them.

[danewilson77]

Dane, why do you prefer the Silverlines vs the FK highsport? do you think the road conditions in VA are that bad that the stainless steel body is needed?

what about ST vs KW? i mean is the rust protection that big of a deal in a state like Virginia?

Also on my list are the Fortune Auto coilovers from the local guys http://www.fortune-auto.net/ They go for $1099 for their "comfort" series.

Lastly Vogtland coilovers, but i can't seem to find if their bodies are stainless steel or not.

essentially, these are all on my list of which do i really want over the next couple months when i sit down and purchase coilovers for the bimmer.


Any and all input would be appreciated. I basically want a good, street coilover that has the ability to go low, and also have a solid/semi comfortable drop. I will never track the car, just want a comfortable (as possible..) and low ride.

SS body is definetely needed here.

The silverlines had adjusteable dampening...which I thought I wanted at the time.

Will answer rest later.

Get SS tubes...

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02243.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02245sz800.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02246sz800.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02242sz800.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02241sz800.jpg

[danewilson77]

SS body is definetely needed here.

The silverlines had adjusteable dampening...which I thought I wanted at the time.

Will answer rest later.

Get SS tubes...

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02243.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02245sz800.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02246sz800.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02242sz800.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02241sz800.jpg

ST are probably about as good as KW or Bilstein. I have only heard good things.

Lots of VW fellas run the V'lands....and found a lot of reviews on them at various forums. Mostly good reviews.

[RVAzhp]

ST's aren't stainless tubes though (or i'd jump them), i don't think and that's really all i'm worried about as far as the Vogtland's go. i've heard great things about them as well, just hard to find some info. the bilstein's don't go as low i believe, only 1.2-1.5 drop? also heard great things about the FK highsports, they just don't have the SS body.

[VA//M3]

You got that low from just the H&R kit? Also, curious as to why you chose the "sports" kit instead of the "racing" kit?

It's actually this low
http://i.imgur.com/BByEs.jpg

The picture was taken hours after the kit was fitted. The car also has .5mm thick re-enforcement plates up front raising the front some. Since the It has lowered and settled some. I went with the sports since it seems to be the best ride height for a daily driven car without compromising at all. I can take some newer pictures that show how much the car has settled.

IMO, going very low is detrimental since the roll point of the car is below the control arms and geometry correcting components are needed at that point.. BMW's need all the suspension travel possible and they already have very little. If you wan't a comfortable ride with a adjustable height just get 300 pound FR springs and 400 on the rear. for a good handling track car 700 up front and 800 rear would be more suitable. Most coil-over kits are sold with soft springs however some are not.

This illustration shows more or less what I mean about roll centers

http://f1-dictionary.110mb.com/Images/centre_of_gravity.gif

"Draw imaginary lines parallel to the suspension arms (in red). Then draw imaginary lines between the intersection points of the red lines and the bottom center of the wheels as shown in the picture (in green). The intersection point for these green lines is the roll center.
You should note that the roll center will move when the suspension is compressed or lifted, that's why it's actually an instantaneous roll center. How much this roll center moves as the suspension is compressed is determined by the suspension arm length and the angle between the top and bottom suspension arms (or turnbuckles).
As the suspension is compressed, the roll center will become higher and the moment arm (distance between roll center and the car's center of gravity (CoG in the picture)) will decrease. This will mean that as the suspension is compressed (when taking a corner, for example), the car will have less tendency to keep rolling (which is good, you do not want to roll over).
When using higher grip tires, you should set the suspension arms so that the roll center is raised significantly as the suspension is compressed.
Running parallel, equal-length suspension arms will result in a fixed roll center. This means that as the car leans over, the moment arm will be forcing the car to roll more and more. As a general rule of thumb, the higher the center of gravity of your car, the higher the roll center should be to avoid a roll-over."

The H&R sports place the Control arms form a straight line from left to right. any lower and the roll center will be lower the roll center will be leading to awefull handling. That's why geometry correcting CA's and components are made.

[mikeyb74]

Pics of this Touring?

[RVAzhp]

good info VA330CI but, my guess is most people that go low don't care about their roll center or breaking stuff...because lets be honest, that will happen eventually.

[VA//M3]

good info VA330CI but, my guess is most people that go low don't care about their roll center or breaking stuff...because lets be honest, that will happen eventually.

Indeed.

[danewilson77]

Added info for the rusty setup above.

That was my setup. I got it from DDMTuning.com...for around $750.00. That's what it looked like after 2 months. Rusted and broken.

I got a full refund and they discontinued the product.

[RVAzhp]

so i guess the FK silverlines, KW's, Vogtlands or the Fortune Auto setup. are on my list. any ride quality differences between the FK silverlines and the KW's? which was a more "comfortable" ride. Speaking with the guys at Fortune Auto, i can pretty much get any spring rates i want for comfortable ride.

[danewilson77]

so i guess the FK silverlines, KW's, Vogtlands or the Fortune Auto setup. are on my list. any ride quality differences between the FK silverlines and the KW's? which was a more "comfortable" ride. Speaking with the guys at Fortune Auto, i can pretty much get any spring rates i want for comfortable ride.

The Silverline X's semmed a lil more harsh...but I was able to go lower with them overall. The KW's ride nicer.

Also look at Tein SS w/ pillow ball mounts.

[bullfrogs_M3]

Added info for the rusty setup above.

That was my setup. I got it from DDMTuning.com...for around $750.00. That's what it looked like after 2 months. Rusted and broken.

I got a full refund and they discontinued the product.

This sums up DDM tuning really well. Lots of problems from other members on the e46fanatics board

[danewilson77]

This sums up DDM tuning really well. Lots of problems from other members on the e46fanatics board

+1

[Hornung418]

Thank God they're out of the BMW game...what a disaster.

Bruce, you should check out some of the Group Buys from Vendors on bf.c it seems that a lot of guys are offering really competitive pricing ($200-400 off MSRP). I'm willing to save up a little more to get that adjustability. Originally I had my mind set on the H&R Sport Kit (Race Springs) but I'm thinking I could get a benefit out of the dampening some manufactures provide. Will the touring ever see auto-X or track days?

[RVAzhp]

I had H&R race springs and tokico illumina struts on my old integra. and it went low, i mean i was tucking my wheels low. looked good, handled good, road about as good as any other slammed honda on a similar setup.

Honestly, though, not having the ability to adjust your suspension depending on life was difficult, i couldn't get my car on a speedometer calibrator because i was too low (to get out of a ticket, it's a long story). it was hell even getting a jack underneath it because it was so low. i had to ride up on 2x4's just to get a jack underneath when really all i needed was to raise it up a hair.

adjustable (height that is, dampening is only really important if you feel that it is or tracking) will make you way happier in the long run as things come up (personal opinion). also you can run different tire styles/sizes as you see fit and adjust to conform with any issues with height.

[Johal E32]

i have the cup kit, rides firm. But is 4 inches off the ground, may not seem that low but with crappy CA roads..... It looks fantastic btw, overall I like it.

pic for reference...(next to a stock ride height zhp, this picture doen't really show much difference in the ride height....)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6084/6083046061_d968e0812e_b.jpg

[RVAzhp]

you're on the right? you can barely tell the difference. Roads here in the City of Richmond are pretty terrible, most everything around is good though. a fair amount of slammed cars. Virginia beach there is a ALOT more.

[danewilson77]

you're on the right? you can barely tell the difference. Roads here in the City of Richmond are pretty terrible, most everything around is good though. a fair amount of slammed cars. Virginia beach there is a ALOT more.

I was in Richmond this afternoon. Glad we were in Benz.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[RVAzhp]

I was in Richmond this afternoon. Glad we were in Benz.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

didn't take the BMW off-roading in downtown RVA? it's really not too terrible. although someplaces you almost wonder how they have not repaved yet. It appears a lot of the city streets were just paved over cobblestone which would lead me to believe improper compaction to the substrate prior to pouring the asphalt. oh well.

[danewilson77]

Hate it.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT