Am I sharked?

[HokieZHP]

So I have been exploring the wonderful mountain roads here in and around Blacksburg as well as the deserted highways and today I revved it and noticed that the revs went up over 6700rpm. So tonight I went out and did a test to see if it redlined at 7k rpm. So I did a 3rd gear pull and this is what happened. It got almost to 7k, so am I sharked? I didn't think I was but it seems like it revs almost to 7k.

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq109/maxx919/2003%20ZHP/th_RedlineTest.jpg (http://s438.photobucket.com/albums/qq109/maxx919/2003%20ZHP/?action=view&current=RedlineTest.mp4)

[ecrabb]

I don't even have a ZHP yet, so I'm still mostly lurkin', learnin' about the cars and so I gots nothing' regarding whether your car is Sharked... However, I did want to chime in and say the Beastie Boys Slow And Low is totally

:chuck

Hearing it takes me back to more carefree days!

Love the sound of the car winding up in third to almost 100mph, too... Daddy like.

SC

[Hornung418]

You are indeed sharked. But more importantly...it seems that your temp gauge is a little hotter than normal. You may want to get into the radiator and clean out any debris blocking the fins from adequately cooling your engine. Just don't get in too much trouble. You've found an awesome surprise, ala Kayger12 ;) he'll chime in I'm sure LOL

[HokieZHP]

Thanks. I guess it's a good surprise haha. Then again, I was going to shark so then again I've already gotten used to the extra power it provides. Still looking for more throttle response though.

The angle of the camera is making the temp gauge read hotter than it was. It was pinned in the middle in the video, just looks off. Thanks for the concern though.

[Crickett]

That's exactly what mine did when I tested my redline a few weeks ago! Is there a way to unequivocally verify that it's Sharked? Do they have records with VINs of purchased Injectors?


Tapatalk on Jailbroken iOS: dhu eet!

[danewilson77]

You are indeed sharked. But more importantly...it seems that your temp gauge is a little hotter than normal. You may want to get into the radiator and clean out any debris blocking the fins from adequately cooling your engine. Just don't get in too much trouble. You've found an awesome surprise, ala Kayger12 ;) he'll chime in I'm sure LOL

That may be parallax.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[HokieZHP]

Crickett, I'm with you. Knowing the previous owner I don't think the car would have been sharked...I could be wrong though. Does anyone know what else it could be or if there's another way to verify that it was sharked?


Dane, what's parallax?

[bullfrogs_M3]

http://i.imgur.com/yvVEG.jpg

haha no seriously, not sure. There are a couple of other options to mod the ECU than a shark. ESS or Turner can do custom type ECU modding. So you might have one of those

[HokieZHP]

Lol love the pic!

The only reason why I'm doubting the status of my car being sharked is that I feel like a sharked car would have better throttle response since that's one of the things they advertise. Then again these things may have horrible response stock and mine is now just kinda slow with the shark haha.

[webster]

i know my car has stock engine tuning and i would hardly classify the throttle response as "horrible"

then again i've never driven a car as performance oriented as the ZHP so my experience might be skewed...

oh and my shark injector should be arriving today :)

[johnrando]

I'm not thrilled with the throttle response. I got an AA tune and it definitely improved, but I'd still like it better.

[HokieZHP]

Maybe I've just been spoiled with driving a supercharged mini Cooper s works kit for a while. Either way I'd love to find out if there is any other way of confirming whether or not I'm sharked.

I believe my vanos needs to be replaced as well which will restore some of the "punch" in the engine.

John, how much did that AA tune run you and what improvements did you experience with it?

[Ryans323i]

Please, for God's sake turn the DSC back on. I've seen the DSC-off carnage.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3543/3799922664_6b0d3a2fb3.jpg

PS. Congrats on the extra RPMs and possibly being sharked!

[danewilson77]

Crickett, I'm with you. Knowing the previous owner I don't think the car would have been sharked...I could be wrong though. Does anyone know what else it could be or if there's another way to verify that it was sharked?


Dane, what's parallax?

If you don't look at the meter "straight on", you can read a meter how you want. It looks like that shot is from the side, and not straight on.

[VA//M3]

The only sure way to find out is to hook your car up to DIS and try running a few diagnostic i.e setting the idle rpm and seeing if you're able to or not.

If you get an error "ERROR - not responding to commands" or something along those lines preventing you from going through; that means you have an aftermarket tune.

Also, the RPM limiter on our cars isn't as abrupt as you would so on other cars. For example the classic E30's and Honda's. Also, If you were going down hill that would make it seem like you are going past the rpm limiter.

[VA//M3]

i know my car has stock engine tuning and i would hardly classify the throttle response as "horrible"

then again i've never driven a car as performance oriented as the ZHP so my experience might be skewed...

oh and my shark injector should be arriving today :)

That was my exact thought when I purchased my car. What really made a big difference on my car particularly was replacing the fuel filter, vanos seals, re-crimp all the connectors in the engine bay, clean the TB, and ICV, CCV valve, and updating the ECU to euro 3 standards. However the latest US tune was much peppier then the 9 yr old tune the car had.

[johnrando]

John, how much did that AA tune run you and what improvements did you experience with it?

It was a group buy for $300, and $50 for an local dealer to install it (instead of shipping my DME to AA). I wouldn't have paid full price, but for 3 bills, it was worth it to me (although logic says for that little HP it's not). The throttle response is better, the engine has a little more growl, the rev line is higher, the shift points (auto) are higher, and the city gas mileage went up from 16+ to 19+ (unexpected). Butt dyno just feels better, a little more oomph. Nothing significant, but those little things add up to me. I also have the BMW Perf. Intake, but I could still tell the difference adding the AA tune. Given that it would take FI to make our cars "really" fast, my tact is small improvements to make it "fast enough".

[HokieZHP]

Dane, The video was mostly straight on with the tach. Plus I did another test without video from 1st through 3rd and the redline was still just about 7k.

I noticed the rev limiter doesn't bounce though it just holds steady whereas on my old Mini it would bounce off the limiter.

VA330ci: I'll try that and see if I get an error. I'd really like to know cause if I'm not sharked I'd like to get an AA tune. I'll try calling the PO also and seeing if he knows.

[danewilson77]

Dane, The video was mostly straight on with the tach. Plus I did another test without video from 1st through 3rd and the redline was still just about 7k.

I noticed the rev limiter doesn't bounce though it just holds steady whereas on my old Mini it would bounce off the limiter.

VA330ci: I'll try that and see if I get an error. I'd really like to know cause if I'm not sharked I'd like to get an AA tune. I'll try calling the PO also and seeing if he knows.

I was replying to temp issue. Pic above.

[HokieZHP]

I was replying to temp issue. Pic above.

Oh gotcha. Yeah that is a bad angle. Thanks for clarifying for me

[danewilson77]

If it's at 1200 when viewing straight ahead...you're good.

[az3579]

Our tachs don't show the exact rpm, so that one was showing as a tiny bit more than actual fuel cutoff. On mine, it actually goes to 7000 before doing so (I have it installed).


Your car does not appear to be sharked.

[danewilson77]

Our tachs don't show the exact rpm, so that one was showing as a tiny bit more than actual fuel cutoff. On mine, it actually goes to 7000 before doing so (I have it installed).


Your car does not appear to be sharked.

:rofl

[HokieZHP]

Az= that's what I thought since it cuts around 6800-6900rpm

[az3579]

:rofl

Was it something I said? lol

[danewilson77]

Was it something I said? lol

No...

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[az3579]

No...

HTC Thunderbolt+TT


You perplex me, DW. :p

[Rovert]

If you check the secret hidden OBC you can get a digital readout of your RPMs and you can test it again to see.

[kayger12]

Morning, gents. Just getting caught up around here after a week in the Caribbean. :)

Copy of the email I received when I inquired with Shark Direct about the availability of records concerning a PO install:

"There is a possibility it has a Shark Injector on it, however there is no
way for me to tell you yes or no on that. We don't ask for a VIN at any
time during the process, so I have no idea there.

The only real way to find out is to see where the rev limiter is. The Shark
Injector raises the limiter to 7000rpm. You need to hold it on the limiter
for a few seconds to allow the tach to catch up. It is kind of crude, but
that is the only way to detect the use of aftermarket software."

So.... here are my thoughts. When I did the rev limiter test, my tach did exactly what Hokie's did in the video he posted, except that I held it against the limiter a little longer than Hokie did (but not much). My tach held around that 6900 mark-- clearly over the visual red line, but just under the 7k mark.

Seems we have one of two things occurring-- either the tach error is above actual and the car is not Sharked, or the tach error is below actual and the car is Sharked. Based on the email info above, my assumption when I tested mine was that I just didn't hold it against the limiter long enough for the tach needle to catch up, so it fell just short of 7k.

If anyone who knows that they have stock EM software could verify that the visual position of the tach upon hitting the stock limiter in a ZHP is around 6900, then we'd have a pretty good answer.... and I'll be buying a Shark...

[Mtnman]

My question is...............

What didd your face look like as your car was bouncing off its limiter? My would have the squinted eyes, probably biting a lip, while obviously praying...."please don't break annything...please don't break anything!"



Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

[kayger12]

My question is...............

What didd your face look like as your car was bouncing off its limiter? My would have the squinted eyes, probably biting a lip, while obviously praying...."please don't break annything...please don't break anything!"

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

Yep-- you pretty much hit that one on the head, brother.

[az3579]

My question is...............

What didd your face look like as your car was bouncing off its limiter? My would have the squinted eyes, probably biting a lip, while obviously praying...."please don't break annything...please don't break anything!"



Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

It truly isn't bad to do that every once in a while. That's what the limiter's there for: to protect the engine from damage.

Sometimes you just don't have a choice when you're approaching a corner on a road course or auto-x ; it would be a waste if time to shift. That is where the increased redline becomes handy. :)

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[webster]

Morning, gents. Just getting caught up around here after a week in the Caribbean. :)

Copy of the email I received when I inquired with Shark Direct about the availability of records concerning a PO install:

"There is a possibility it has a Shark Injector on it, however there is no
way for me to tell you yes or no on that. We don't ask for a VIN at any
time during the process, so I have no idea there.

The only real way to find out is to see where the rev limiter is. The Shark
Injector raises the limiter to 7000rpm. You need to hold it on the limiter
for a few seconds to allow the tach to catch up. It is kind of crude, but
that is the only way to detect the use of aftermarket software."

So.... here are my thoughts. When I did the rev limiter test, my tach did exactly what Hokie's did in the video he posted, except that I held it against the limiter a little longer than Hokie did (but not much). My tach held around that 6900 mark-- clearly over the visual red line, but just under the 7k mark.

Seems we have one of two things occurring-- either the tach error is above actual and the car is not Sharked, or the tach error is below actual and the car is Sharked. Based on the email info above, my assumption when I tested mine was that I just didn't hold it against the limiter long enough for the tach needle to catch up, so it fell just short of 7k.

If anyone who knows that they have stock EM software could verify that the visual position of the tach upon hitting the stock limiter in a ZHP is around 6900, then we'd have a pretty good answer.... and I'll be buying a Shark...

seems to me there is another (albeit also semi-crude) way of testing whether or not your car is sharked:

drive a ZHP that you know for a fact IS sharked, and then drive yours. if yours is not sharked, you should be able to feel a palpable difference in throttle response in 1st and 2nd gear <3k RPMs between the two cars.

just an idea.

[Rovert]

I'll make a video of how the secret OBD digitally reads out my RPMs today. Redline is fine. There is a reason why BMW put a max on our streetable 3.0L engine for reliability. I've ran my car at 6800RPM through a long sweeping corner with the throttle pinned for just under 10 seconds. I made the mistake of forgetting to upshift and upshifting in the corner could prove nasty so I kept speed at redline. The engine screamed like a 200lbs overweight person being made to run that extra mile, but in the end it made them stronger. That was ages ago and my engine is still running like a strong champ! :P

[Rovert]

Video as promised:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J7e5Ly_ZUM

[danewilson77]

That is the sheet Trevor. Thanks for that. Was that 2nd gear?

Also...what do the lower numbers indicate while using this?

Thanks

[Rovert]

What lower number? The temp or the distance to empty gauge? haha

Redline at 40mph is the 1st gear. Now if someone can verify their fully stock ECU that would be great to know...because mine seems to get close to 7,000RPM. My last software modification didn't include a revlimit increase so maybe my car was modified by it's previous owner too.....

[danewilson77]

Your reline is higher than stock.

Thanks Trevor.

[Hornung418]

Trevor, Love the intro music. hotdamnirock is the funniest shit on YouTube.

So is the digital read-out also affected by the "Optimistic Read-out" that plagues the Speedometer?

[HokieZHP]

I just saw that and was about to post that video. Could somone with a known stock ZHP do this test and see what they get? It'd be nice to compare mine to it to give me a better sense of what I have.

[VaTechZHP]

I'll be up in Blacksburg for the Clemson game. I'm 99.9% sure my car is completely stock if you want to take it for a spin opr do some pulls out 460 at some point during the weekend?

[HokieZHP]

VaTechZHP that'd be awesome if we could work it out! I'll send you a PM and we can chat.

Thanks

[MasterC17]

Not sure if these have been covered yet but two things.

1. The "rev limiter" does not instantaneously kick in to stop you exactly at 6700rpm, so you could theoretically rev past it a bit (such as 6800 or so). It appears you hit about 6900 in the video but I never heard the rev limiter kick in. So, I wouldn't say that you are DEFINITELY sharked although it does appear the rev limiter was raised. Also note the car could have received a rev limit raise and nothing else.

2. Someone commented that you are running hot. As long as the needle is somewhere close to the middle this means absolutely nothing. The coolant gauge is a dummy gauge and will read in the upright position from about 70c-110c (or something like that). So, don't be concerned with the needle position unless it differs obviously outside of the mid-point.

[MasterC17]

I'll make a video of how the secret OBD digitally reads out my RPMs today. Redline is fine. There is a reason why BMW put a max on our streetable 3.0L engine for reliability. I've ran my car at 6800RPM through a long sweeping corner with the throttle pinned for just under 10 seconds. I made the mistake of forgetting to upshift and upshifting in the corner could prove nasty so I kept speed at redline. The engine screamed like a 200lbs overweight person being made to run that extra mile, but in the end it made them stronger. That was ages ago and my engine is still running like a strong champ! :P

Please note that running the car over 6,000 RPM's contiguously is not advised. Although the car has a redline of 6,800 (or 6,500 if not ZHP), the rev limiter should really be 6,000 across all models. Reason being the engine harmonics over 6,000 RPM cause the oil pump nut to back off due to a crappy factory damper if you abuse the red line. Not saying that it is definitely going to happen or it happens often but it most definitely CAN happen. Although the oil pump nut can be welded, the oil pump sprocket can eventually shear and cause harm to the engine. While on the subject, please don't ignore your low oil pressure light if it comes on (RED oil light) as, again, we do have problems with the M54 in this regard. For 99% of street cars this is of no concern, but something to note.

[az3579]

Please note that running the car over 6,000 RPM's contiguously is not advised. Although the car has a redline of 6,800 (or 6,500 if not ZHP), the rev limiter should really be 6,000 across all models. Reason being the engine harmonics over 6,000 RPM cause the oil pump nut to back off due to a crappy factory damper if you abuse the red line.

Thanks for that, I thought that was an E36 only issue!
Good to know.

[Hornung418]

Please note, that this is only with 330Ci/i. It hasn't been well documented with 323, 328 or 325's. But I love to take my 328 to redline...I've noticed no ill effects after doing so.

[MasterC17]

Please note, that this is only with 330Ci/i. It hasn't been well documented with 323, 328 or 325's. But I love to take my 328 to redline...I've noticed no ill effects after doing so.

Good point, I'm going to guess it is mostly due to the lower redline (6,000). Assuming the oil pump issue was/is fixed, running the car to redline would have no ill side effects on the 330's. Also, take note that pre-2004 330's are more susceptible as they are held on with just a nut and 2004+ used a Loctite nut.

[VA//M3]

Please note, that this is only with 330Ci/i. It hasn't been well documented with 323, 328 or 325's. But I love to take my 328 to redline...I've noticed no ill effects after doing so.

True, This only affects M54B30's more so the M54B25's and M52TU's simply because of the M54B30's increased stroke.

Stroke

M52TUB25 = 75 mm (2.95 in)
M52TUB28 = 84 mm (3.31 in)
M54B25 = 75.0 mm (2.95 in)
M54B30 = 89.6 mm (3.53 in)

That's mainly how the M54B30 makes 30 - 35 more HP and TQ and higher displacement over the M54B25. Despite the M54B30 having a slighter lower compression ratio. The piston bore is exactly the same across all those engines.


Good point, I'm going to guess it is mostly due to the lower redline (6,000). Assuming the oil pump issue was/is fixed, running the car to redline would have no ill side effects on the 330's. Also, take note that pre-2004 330's are more susceptible as they are held on with just a nut and 2004+ used a Loctite nut.

The main reason the OPN backs off is also due to cars that are auto-x's and tracked. Mainly when they spin out and forget to push the clutch in. Not pushing in the clutch and spinning out basically spins the engine backwards impacting the OPN nut loose.

M54B30's are simply not made to rev. They have a insanely long stroke. Think of it as a B25 with a stroker kit. Even if you built the head and tied down the OPN to sustain a 8k rpm limit the crankshaft will detonate itself. UNLESS you use a properly tuned ATI SUPER DAMPER HB. But it's more due to a improper oil pump gear design and improper harmonic balancer.

Even the 2jz 3.0l supra engine has a 86mm stroke on a 6 cyl inline 6 cyl with a cast iron block.

BMW might have pushed it too much with a 89.6mm stroke, aluminum block, without redisgning the OPN gear, and HB.

[MrMaico]

A little info on the ZHP specific oil pump nut....

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=714263

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/38192/ZHP/opn/3.jpg

[danewilson77]

A little info on the ZHP specific oil pump nut....

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=714263

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/38192/ZHP/opn/3.jpg

Glad I have ZHP. Thanks for research and sharing.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[HokieZHP]

So the moral of all this is that the ZHP is safe to rev to redline without issues with the oil pump nut?

[kayger12]

Negative, because the oil pump shaft can still shear off.

I think the moral of the story is, generally speaking, that if you don't track or AutoX your car, you don't have much to worry about.

I think...

[Rovert]

:applause2

Gotta love having a car that I can have fun with and at the end of the day, week, month, year, decade....it still works. I can't believe my car is 8 years old and still making sure it's giving new minivans a run of their money...but only by a bit...LOL. Everything is going to have a 0-60 in 5 seconds in no time with technology and competition. But it's not all about just getting to 60. It's about how you got their in the 1st place. And we all know...we get to 60 in full style! :megaphone

[webster]

it's funny, cause every car i've ever owned, i wished it was a little faster off the line.

with my ZHP, i don't even care. just pulling from idle and hearing that slight stock exhaust growl makes me happy every time. i let mini vans fly by. i know i got em if i want em. i don't need to flaunt.

[MrMaico]

Negative, because the oil pump shaft can still shear off.

I think the moral of the story is, generally speaking, that if you don't track or AutoX your car, you don't have much to worry about.

I think...

Gotta say, this is the first I've ever heard of this. A quick Google didn't turn up much either.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=231924

[kayger12]

Gotta say, this is the first I've ever heard of this. A quick Google didn't turn up much either.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=231924

I've seen it come up over various forums.

Some info here from post #8 on. (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=735949)

[RVAzhp]

I'll be up in Blacksburg for the Clemson game. I'm 99.9% sure my car is completely stock if you want to take it for a spin opr do some pulls out 460 at some point during the weekend?


VaTechZHP that'd be awesome if we could work it out! I'll send you a PM and we can chat.

Thanks
i'll be up tomorrow night as well. don't know how sober i'll be at all tho. car will more than likely be parked at my buddy's off clay street. if you see a black one with CF splitters and yellow fogs/alternate high flashers. say what up.

[HokieZHP]

Word well maybe I'll swing by before I go out later.