M3 v. ZHP -- Difference in Price

[tnord]

i was all ready willing and able to spend that kind of money on one of these, but then i found out that M3s are not much if any more money for similar condition/mileage.

i think it's a bit silly what people pay for these things.

[BimmerRules!]

i was all ready willing and able to spend that kind of money on one of these, but then i found out that M3s are not much if any more money for similar condition/mileage.

i think it's a bit silly what people pay for these things.


You are telling me that a 05 50k M3 in the Northeast that has been regularly maintained can be had for $19.5k + 'not much if any more money'??

Dude, please! Can you post or forward those listings??

People might be idiots or a bit silly, and I count myself as being in both camps. Such consumers, especially those of us here in the northeast where prices are at a premium - I am sure you are aware of that though - don't mind paying slightly more for a well maintained car in their local area that has the color combo that they like.

FYI - A well maintained imola stick zhp in DC (04, 75k miles) was sold just last month for $16k within days of listing - with multiple bids - and it didn't have all the options that this '05 car with 25k less miles has. So, IMO, the asking price is not that far off from the recent sale prices of other zhps in the region.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

i was all ready willing and able to spend that kind of money on one of these, but then i found out that M3s are not much if any more money for similar condition/mileage.

i think it's a bit silly what people pay for these things.

When I was looking at E46 M3s -- and ZHPs -- I saw a $5000 difference between similar mileage ZHPs and M3s. In other words, if a ZHP had 45,000 miles, I'd always expect to pay $5,000 more for a M3 with the same miles. That assumes, of course, that the cars are in similar condition. I see M3s that you can get with fewer miles (and less dollars) but they're always beat up.

When it comes to the ZHP, people are willing to pay a premium for a car that's not a dime a dozen. But, yeah, I do see some "cult" pricing going on with these cars. Maybe not rational but it is what it is.

[tnord]

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=863190

c'mon....i didn't even have to look more than 5 posts down. listed for $21,500 obo which means you should be able to get it for $19,500. yeah, it has a few more miles.....but big freakin deal.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=856194

here's a LSB one with 60k miles for $20k obo and it even has the super-ultra-fanboi LSB premium on top of the price tag. sure it's an 01, but these cars barely changed throughout the lifecycle, so at least to the intelligent buyer....as long as the recall was performed....the year really shouldn't matter that much.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

That first one has 82,000 miles. Stock wheels not available.

I'd guess that a ZHP with the same mileage would go for $14k-$15k.

That's about $5000 more for the M3 (assuming you knocked it down from $21K and change).

The LSB with gray interior really limits your buying pool. Not a popular combo. Assuming the subframe is good and all recalls done, yep, that's not a bad price. I'm guessing the guy will come off that price a bit.

I am suspecting that you were addressing Lawrence's post, where he talked about finding M3s. I was just curious to see if the $5K differential was still holding true. It definitely is for the first listing. And the second listing is probably $3000 different than a ZHP (but with the LSB and gray interior, plus 2001 MY, I can understand).

[tnord]

ok then...

how about a 23k mile option with an asking price of $23k?
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=864982&highlight=m3

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Sounds like a great deal. Personally, I'd never buy SMG (personal preference), but I am sure someone will (obviously).

Also, seems like a great price. Is that normal for those miles? Something wrong with this car?

By the way, we are off topic in this thread. Let's start a thread that compares price of M3 v. ZHP. Could be fun.

I'll take your first post and create a thread.

[BimmerRules!]

ok then...

how about a 23k mile option with an asking price of $23k?
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=864982&highlight=m3

Great deal IMO for a M3 but note that it is a '03 (vs. the zhp you were looking at was a 05).

In fact, what you have shown so far confirms the general's astute observation that there is a $5k difference between an m3 and zhp (when comparing the same year, approx same mileage. And yeah dude, 30k miles difference is one big freakin difference!)

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Of course there will always be an exception to my general rule but after looking at hundreds and hundreds of M3s (before I got the ZHP), that was the general spread for an apples-to-apples comparison between the two cars.

I am certainly not arguing, though, with Travis's comment about the higher end of the price range. When you start getting at $20K and above for a ZHP, you really have to analyze your position.

Still, supply and demand is what it is. Some prices are absolutely silly (the outliers) but most prices are rational, given the supply and demand equation.

I recall my E30 M3 search. At some point I just was not paying $25K-$30K for the cars that interested me the most. Were the prices silly? Not when I analyzed it looking at the economic theory. I just wasn't going to play ball with the market, though. I moved on.

[Johal E32]

a well kept E46 M3 can be had for around 16-19k

a well kept zhp can be had for 12-16k

that's for the bay area, not sure about other places....

[ranger]

I found very few reasonably priced E46 M3 for sale in Atlanta. The reasonably priced ones were rough condition.

[Mike V]

E46 M3 prices seem to have increased lately. If you are looking for a non-black, non-SMG and non-convertible E46 M3 with decent miles for under $19k, prepare to get very frustrated. After two months, I gave up. By decent miles, I mean under 70k.

[Katu]

I think one thing to consider is the price to maintain a M3 vs a ZHP. While it may not be a huge price difference for the car in some cases, parts for a M3 (from what I've heard) are much more expensive.

[MPowerFanatic]

i was all ready willing and able to spend that kind of money on one of these, but then i found out that M3s are not much if any more money for similar condition/mileage.

i think it's a bit silly what people pay for these things.

I agree with you. You can easily find clean e46 m3's with 60-70k miles for well below $20k. I have always scratched my head as to why the ZHP premium over a 330i sport is about the same used as they were new. I think there is just a couple $k between the m3 and ZHP. Personally, I am leaning towards the m3 since there not much of a price difference, but 100 hp more. Best of all there are a lot of m3 available on the used market.

[johnrando]

I did an informal check on cars.com, for used M3's, between the years 2003-2006, within 50 miles of 90266 (in SoCal, so this includes Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, Beach Cities, Orange County, etc). The average listed price for the 10 cars was $26,338 (tossing out 1 high, and 1 low). Not saying this was the street selling price, and those do likely get a premium here, but that's a fairly distinct difference in what ZHPs seem to be getting. Unfortunately it's not easy doing the same thing for ZHPs as they are not necessarily listed correctly. (Some list "m" package, some list "performance package", some list ZHP, some list nothing at all), and there is no "ZHP" choice under BMW listed but there is "M3".

EDIT: I did try a search using the words "performance" or "zhp", and came up with only 3 cars in 150 miles, vs. 12 M3's within 50 miles. The average price of those 3 cars were $17,146K. So, ZHPs appear to be less expensive but also harder to find in this unscientific pricing/availability check. It doesn't really prove anything, just a small sample for your consideration.

[webster]

Another fact to consider when analyzing prices for ZHP v M3 is simply the number of units produced. Werent there like 50k E46 M3s produced to ~15k ZHPs? Over time the exclusivity factor should in theory bring the two models closer in value to each other...

I see E46 M3s all the time here in houston. Its much less common to see a ZHP.

[cakM3]

I think one thing to consider is the price to maintain a M3 vs a ZHP. While it may not be a huge price difference for the car in some cases, parts for a M3 (from what I've heard) are much more expensive.

This is true...also maintenance (Insp I & II) costs much more on the M3 over the ZHP.
Just because you can find M3's at a reasonable price ($15k - low 20's), it doesn't mean that parts and maintenance have gone down for them as well.

It comes down to how much are you willing to spend on a car?

[sea6speed]

One thing about shopping for used cars- comparing the price without having both a carfax and a thorough visual inspection is misleading.

When i bought my ZHP, I looked at another one priced at $19,999 w/ 40K, a stripper model with no options. On paper it looked great - 1 owner, clean carfax. After going over every panel in bright sunlight I found that it had multiple repaints of varying quality on every side and non-OEM replacement parts in the front clip. Furthermore, when I asked about getting a PPI they wanted a $1K non-refundable deposit. That $20K list price was on a ~$14K car. I wasn't interested.

[cannan]

I don't see the ZHP vs. M3 as an apples to apples comparison. As others have mentioned above there are a few things right off the bat that increase ownership cost like maintenance and insurance, etc. I also think finding the right M3 takes time and effort, more so than a ZHP model. The older and lower cost they become the more likely they are to fall into the hands of an uncaring owner. Drives the piss out of it, little to no maintenance, and sells it's one year later for a good deal and leaves the new uneducated owner with a pile of s. The ones that are well kept with records are usually catching a premium.

Not to mention, if your looking for a four door there is really no comparison at all.

[cakM3]

... I also think finding the right M3 takes time and effort, more so than a ZHP model. The older and lower cost they become the more likely they are to fall into the hands of an uncaring owner. Drives the piss out of it, little to no maintenance, and sells it's one year later for a good deal and leaves the new uneducated owner with a pile of s. The ones that are well kept with records are usually catching a premium.

Not to mention, if your looking for a four door there is really no comparison at all.

I agree. M3's which look like a bargain could potentially become a major nightmare for any potential owner unless they do the research and know what to look out for. If you are looking for a 4-door E46 equivalent then the best you will find is a ZHP. The ZHP is not equal to an M3, but it is still an awesome car in it's own right. :thumbsup

good post cannan :thumbsup

[UdubBadger]

interesting points cuz I was also pretty amazed to see some 03-04 M3's with similar miles for just a few thousand more too but good points on condition and all that. Most of the cheaper ones are SMG+Vert

[M0nk3y]

If you really want a M3, you gotta make sure what you're getting into.

Like I said in another thread, I've owned this car for 5 months and already there is $1,000 worth of work done to it. Of course, I'm lucky to have CPO but otherwise it would of been on my dime.

I took the effort and time to find a car that was a Queen, driven only on weekends and never in the rain. Granted, that's changed now and I beat the living crap out of it 12-15 weekends autocrossing, but I know I'm the only one that's doing it and I'm properly doing it....not dropping the clutch at 3k and doing burnouts down the neighborhood street

[Alphatek45]

I did an informal check on cars.com, for used M3's, between the years 2003-2006, within 50 miles of 90266 (in SoCal, so this includes Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, Beach Cities, Orange County, etc). The average listed price for the 10 cars was $26,338 (tossing out 1 high, and 1 low). Not saying this was the street selling price, and those do likely get a premium here, but that's a fairly distinct difference in what ZHPs seem to be getting. Unfortunately it's not easy doing the same thing for ZHPs as they are not necessarily listed correctly. (Some list "m" package, some list "performance package", some list ZHP, some list nothing at all), and there is no "ZHP" choice under BMW listed but there is "M3".

EDIT: I did try a search using the words "performance" or "zhp", and came up with only 3 cars in 150 miles, vs. 12 M3's within 50 miles. The average price of those 3 cars were $17,146K. So, ZHPs appear to be less expensive but also harder to find in this unscientific pricing/availability check. It doesn't really prove anything, just a small sample for your consideration.

My exact experience. Ive been watching auto trader for a few weeks now for a loaded non-SMG car. Anything under 20K is a 95k mile + car...or just a pig.
I know that "advertised price" isn't sale price but I cant see someone knocking 9k off a $28,000.00 car

Details here. (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchresults.jsp?model=M3&search_lang=en&start_year=2001&search_type=both&distance=0&rdm=1314556375301&marketZipError=false&advanced=y&sownerid=45941237&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2006&showZipError=n&dma=ATLANTA_NE1&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&transmission=Manual&default_sort=priceASC&address=30097&sort_type=priceASC&make=BMW&seller_type=b&num_records=25&pager.offset=25&first_record=26)

[Mike V]

My exact experience. Ive been watching auto trader for a few weeks now for a loaded non-SMG car. Anything under 20K is a 95k mile + car...or just a pig.

Exactly. E46 M3s with SMG and/or convertible for under $20k are plentiful but the 6-spd manual if hard to find especially if you're picky on the color combo. I found a nice blue one in NY for $19k but it had the gray interior. Gray interior kills it for me and I won't settle for it again like I did with the ZHP.

[Alphatek45]

I'm in the same boat. No verts. No smg. No gray interior. Less than 70k.

All $25k+

Id really like a laguna seca. Time is on my side so...

[Mike V]

I'm in the same boat. No verts. No smg. No gray interior. Less than 70k.

All $25k+

Id really like a laguna seca. Time is on my side so...

I also didn't want silver, black or yellow. I like how the Jet Black looks but no more black cars for me. Haha.

[Alphatek45]

I also didn't want silver, black or yellow. I like how the Jet Black looks but no more black cars for me. Haha.

Yeah lol. My black days are over as well...

[yura]

Personally, I am leaning towards the m3 since there not much of a price difference, but 100 hp more. Best of all there are a lot of m3 available on the used market.

What you need to consider is the maintenance costs. You'll be paying pretty much double for an M3, and that will really add up after a couple years. The ZHP is a much better daily driver, IMO.

[johnrando]

I also didn't want silver, black or yellow. I like how the Jet Black looks but no more black cars for me. Haha.


Yeah lol. My black days are over as well...

Blasphemy! I'll pretend I didn't hear that. :shift

[Alphatek45]

Blasphemy! I'll pretend I didn't hear that. :shift

Don't get me wrong. Its the single best looking color you can have...when its clean...and you know how that goes.

[johnrando]

Don't get me wrong. Its the single best looking color you can have...when its clean...and you know how that goes.

So true.

[BimmerRules!]

I think one thing to consider is the price to maintain a M3 vs a ZHP. While it may not be a huge price difference for the car in some cases, parts for a M3 (from what I've heard) are much more expensive.


This is true...also maintenance (Insp I & II) costs much more on the M3 over the ZHP.
Just because you can find M3's at a reasonable price ($15k - low 20's), it doesn't mean that parts and maintenance have gone down for them as well.

It comes down to how much are you willing to spend on a car?

Please don't mistake me but I believe you are introducing important but unrelated issues to the very narrow topic of the thread: are M3s available for 'little bit' more, if not around same price level of zhps.

Your fine points are certainly to be considered if the discussion is "M3 or zhp?". :)

[M0nk3y]

Sometimes I regret having a hooker lipstick car, it attracts too much attention from the wrong crowd (aka cops like to follow me).

Positives outweigh the negatives

[gr330zhp]

Sometimes I regret having a hooker lipstick car, it attracts too much attention from the wrong crowd (aka cops like to follow me).

Positives outweigh the negatives

I feel ya on that, but I wouldnt trade for any other color. Luckily I know all the cops in the area, they all eat at our pizzeria. :biggrin The other night after closing, one of the cool ones pulls behind me throws on the spotlight, and announces over the intercom "hey you what are you doing" lol and sped off past me, waving...kinda cool

[johnrando]

I feel ya on that, but I wouldnt trade for any other color. Luckily I know all the cops in the area, they all eat at our pizzeria. :biggrin The other night after closing, one of the cool ones pulls behind me throws on the spotlight, and announces over the intercom "hey you what are you doing" lol and sped off past me, waving...kinda cool

Awesome, time for me to open a pizzeria! lol

[gr330zhp]

Awesome, time for me to open a pizzeria! lol

:biggrin