Minor Irritating Start Up Issue-Opinions please

[echo46]

All
As you are all painfully aware (as I mention it here ad nausium), I recently purchased my Zhp and am loving it. Did some preventive maintenance and the car runs and rides beautifully...except for one minor irritating thing. On start up (sometimes cold, sometimes hot) the car starts right up but initially sounds a bit rough. When I give it a touch of gas it runs perfect. Already cleaned icv, throttle body, and replaced fuel filter. Could it be the battery ( replaced in 12/07), plugs, MAF ...? What do you experts think?

[danewilson77]

Clean maf, and change plugs as mentioned.

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[echo46]

Thanks. Will do

[danewilson77]

Forgot to ask....no codes?

Even though there is no ses light...there still may be codes present which would help.

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[echo46]

No codes but I dont have a peak tool to pull the codes. Will have. to get one. The guy I bought it from took it to the dealer just before selling it. CEL light was on and dealer stated that it was DME software error -- fault for b1 o2 sensor. The dealer updated the dme software. Cel came on again and he had it checked again-ran diagnostics but found nothing. Of note the service agent suggested spark plug replace at $320.

[danewilson77]

Ha! $320 ftl.

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[Marcus-SanDiego]

Of note the service agent suggested spark plug replace at $320.

Wow.

[danewilson77]

Wow.

No kidding. How can they justify that? Plugs are no more than an hour...unless you're doing the job with your head in your ass.

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[Marcus-SanDiego]

No kidding. How can they justify that? Plugs are no more than an hour...unless you're doing the job with your head in your ass.

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And then it's only 1.5 hours.

[danewilson77]

And then it's only 1.5 hours.

Exactly. It's dark and you gotta kind of dhu eet by feel.

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[echo46]

Which plugs, NGK Laser Platinum or Bosch.

[danewilson77]

Which plugs, NGK Laser Platinum or Bosch.

Ngk Bkr6equp

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[echo46]

Just picked up the plugs and MAF cleaner and have the hood up...

[danewilson77]

Just picked up the plugs and MAF cleaner and have the hood up...

Ya! Let's get this done.

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[echo46]

Replaced all six plugs with the NGK Laser Platinum Rs. Old plugs were not that bad but showed some wear. Got the plugs at advanced Auto for a little more than $7 per plug. Also picked up a can of the MAF cleaner.
No oil leakage into the spark plug holes so valve cover gasket is still holding. That being said, I will do the vcg when I do the vanos sometime in the future. Vanos is still good.
Sprayed MAF carefully.
Cleaned everything then fired her up. Seems to have solved the rough start up problem but I will report back later tonight after another drive. Car sounds really good. Thanks Dane for you help.

[danewilson77]

No worries. Give it a few more start cycles...as stated...till we know for sure if we're outta the woods.

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[echo46]

Just got back from another ride. Started up a number of times. On the second start up had the rough start again. Other start ups were good though. Very frustrating. I will drive it this week and see what's what. Howev, when I drive it it is smooth and pulls hard.

[danewilson77]

Just got back from another ride. Started up a number of times. On the second start up had the rough start again. Other start ups were good though. Very frustrating. I will drive it this week and see what's what. Howev, when I drive it it is smooth and pulls hard.

Well.....shoot.

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[echo46]

Well, I'm back and still have this same irratating issue. Since I last posted I developed a VCG oil leak so I decided to do the beisan vanos refresh and vcg at the same time. The vcg revealed itself by a strong oil burning odor when car was stopped at red lights and smoke coming from the exhaust header. No big deal. Vanos refresh, including anti rattle kit, vcg, and vanos gasket diy took about 5 hours. Oh, by the way, when I yanked the vanos oil overflow tube like an animal, it broke so I had to take the power steering housing off and replace the hose. Lesson learned, don't yank plastic hoses, wiggle them off. Anyway, all went well and car drives great .... except....

On first start up in the morning car starts up fine. However, after I drive a while then turn it off, come back an hour or so later, it struggles to start and idles rough. As mentioned above already tried cleaning ICV and MAF and replacing plugs.

Could this be a fuel delivery issue. I already changed out the fuel filter. So I am left with Fuel relay switch, fuel pump or leaky injector(s). Please, please opinions, help, answers.

[danewilson77]

Well, I'm back and still have this same irratating issue. Since I last posted I developed a VCG oil leak so I decided to do the beisan vanos refresh and vcg at the same time. The vcg revealed itself by a strong oil burning odor when car was stopped at red lights and smoke coming from the exhaust header. No big deal. Vanos refresh, including anti rattle kit, vcg, and vanos gasket diy took about 5 hours. Oh, by the way, when I yanked the vanos oil overflow tube like an animal, it broke so I had to take the power steering housing off and replace the hose. Lesson learned, don't yank plastic hoses, wiggle them off. Anyway, all went well and car drives great .... except....

On first start up in the morning car starts up fine. However, after I drive a while then turn it off, come back an hour or so later, it struggles to start and idles rough. As mentioned above already tried cleaning ICV and MAF and replacing plugs.

Could this be a fuel delivery issue. I already changed out the fuel filter. So I am left with Fuel relay switch, fuel pump or leaky injector(s). Please, please opinions, help, answers.

Your fuel pump could be going. Check pressure at the rail.

[kayger12]

Your fuel pump could be going. Check pressure at the rail.

This. Just went through similar set of symptoms with my wife's car.

[echo46]

Do I have to buy a fuel pressure guage to measure the pressure at the rail. Kayger-what ultimately was the problem with your wife's car. If the fuel pump is on its way out shouldn't I be at least stalling when driving or does it tend to deteriorate and weaken over time? This is driving me crazy. I am also leaning towards fuel pump but have read that when the fuel pump is failling the car tends to stal, my car is not stalling, just rough idle and weak start on warm start up.

[kayger12]

Do I have to buy a fuel pressure guage to measure the pressure at the rail. Kayger-what ultimately was the problem with your wife's car. If the fuel pump is on its way out shouldn't I be at least stalling when driving or does it tend to deteriorate and weaken over time? This is driving me crazy. I am also leaning towards fuel pump but have read that when the fuel pump is failling the car tends to stal, my car is not stalling, just rough idle and weak start on warm start up.

So here's the story: My wife's car would always start and idle when cold no problem. Occasionally (usually after driving for a while and then stopping and shutting her off), she would fail to turn over. If she did turn over, she would run rough. If I let her sit for about a half an hour, though, she would eventually turn over and run fine.

This happened intermittently for over a year before total failure. Sometimes it wouldn't happen again for several months.

I changed the fuel filter in March of this year hoping that was the issue (even enough there were only 20k miles on the old one). Then last week, after not doing it for almost 6 months it did again- but this time it wouldn't start at all, even a day later.

I suspected fuel pump, mechanic confirmed same. $650 later, she's right as rain.

Apparently when my wife would run the tank down low (which I never do on the ZHP for this reason), the pump would overheat and not function well until it cooled off. At least that's how the mechanic explained it to me.

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[echo46]

Very interesting. THe only thing is I also never allow the tank to go below 1/4. Tonight I will test voltage at the pump, see if pump is functioning when key is turned to Position2 and look into testing pressure at the rail.

[kayger12]

Very interesting. THe only thing is I also never allow the tank to go below 1/4. Tonight I will test voltage at the pump, see if pump is functioning when key is turned to Position2 and look into testing pressure at the rail.

Forgot to mention, the reason I settled on fuel pump was because I could no longer hear it priming when I turned the key to the equivalent of the #2 position in our cars.

As for running the tank down, I believe that only accelerates failure, so I'm guessing you could still have a failure even though you are good about not running it down.

Curious to see what you find tonight.

Keep us in the loop.

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[echo46]

Will do. Thanks for your help.

[echo46]

Back seat is out, took it for a long ride, by the way I love driving this friggin monster, fuel pump seems just fine. Leaky fuel injector?

[kayger12]

Back seat is out, took it for a long ride, by the way I love driving this friggin monster, fuel pump seems just fine. Leaky fuel injector?

Are you discounting the fuel pump based on the voltage?


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[echo46]

Well yes and also seemed to be functioning--ie hearing the whirling motor. However, it did change sounds as it was working. You don't think I'm out of the woods with the pump? Actually, I was kinda hoping it was the pump as that is a fairly simple fix. The car drives strongl after it is started. I'm still frustratingly perplexed. I may just change the pump and see what hAppens.

[kayger12]

I'm just spit-balling.

Sometimes when pumps are on the way out they initially work, but their performance degrades as the pump heats up. It's the fact that your symptoms appear when warmed up but not cold that have me still thinking fuel pump.

Not convinced that the pump is good just based on voltage or hearing it- that just tells me it's ok when cold at start up- but I'm not sure how else to know for sure without replacing it.

That being said, I'd hate to see you spend the time and money changing out a pump for no reason.


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[iZHP]

I'm calling out the DISA valve. My car had similar issues...Sometimes I would get rough starting, rough idling, SES lights with no codes (or invalid reasons); and all this would happen completely randomly, cold or hot. Sometimes it would smooth itself out, sometimes it would idle very rough. Also check for cracks in your rubber intake boot. Even a hairline crack will set the DME out of whack with gas/air mixture. So mine was a combo of the two; DISA & Intake Boot. Both 8 years old.

[echo46]

I checked both intake boots for cracks when I cleaned the icv. I may give them another hard look this weekend. Also, anyone know how hard it is to do the smoke test? I'm going to allow the gas level to go under 1/4 and see if I have stalling issues. If so, then it may be the pump. Interestingly, I poured in a bottle of techron last gas fill and I have noticed a bit of an improvement at start up. Maybe prior owner was using a lower octane gas? Does anyone know if there is a procedure to clean the fuel injectors besides pouring in techron?

[aurelius]

OP: at what mileage did you replace fuel filter?

[echo46]

I replaced the fuel filter about a month ago.

[aurelius]

I replaced the fuel filter about a month ago.

Good but again, what was the car's mileage when you did that?

[echo46]

67,500

[aurelius]

That sounds too early for fuel pump failure but anything is possible.

I would remove the DISA, which itself can be the source of a vac leak:

"The 2001+ DISA has a base gasket built into the DISA. It shrinks over time and creates a small vacuum leak. Place an 8" piece of electrical tape on a table top. Cut the tape half width with a razor knife. Place one layer of half width electrical tape over the base gasket. This will thicken the gasket and create a tight seal with the intake manifold."
* source: Beisan Systems

Click HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s82CIF28zhU) for part 1 of a 3-part DISA removal & inspection video.

Note: you'll need a T40 (Torx size 40) bit for the 2 DISA bolts and an extension for the rear bolt, like a T-handle driver for the T40 bit or a T40 socket on a ratchet extension. Pay attn to the guy in the video when he discusses not dropping that 2nd bolt into the abyss of your engine bay. You can get a new DISA for well under $200. It's a BMW-only part and and has an updated part number, which is 11617544805.

[echo46]

Thanks so much, I'm going to give this a try. Today after sitting for about two hours had another rough start up. However, after started she runs brilliantly.

[echo46]

Pulled the upper intake boot and the DISA for a thorough inspection. Could not find and cracks in the boot. DISA was also in very good condition. No rattle, good resistance and good suction. I did place the strip of electrical tape around the base gasket to to make sure I have a airtight connection. Took her out on a spirited ride, let her sit for an hour or so and still had the weak start up. Again the car ran wonderfully. I still think it is some sort of fuel delivery issue.

[danewilson77]

Pulled the upper intake boot and the DISA for a thorough inspection. Could not find and cracks in the boot. DISA was also in very good condition. No rattle, good resistance and good suction. I did place the strip of electrical tape around the base gasket to to make sure I have a airtight connection. Took her out on a spirited ride, let her sit for an hour or so and still had the weak start up. Again the car ran wonderfully. I still think it is some sort of fuel delivery issue.

Interesting....but good inspection nonetheless.

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[aurelius]

The guy I bought it from took it to the dealer just before selling it. CEL light was on and dealer stated that it was DME software error -- fault for b1 o2 sensor. The dealer updated the dme software. Cel came on again and he had it checked again-ran diagnostics but found nothing.

Maybe replace the pre-cat O2 sensors? At least there's evidence for doing so. My car has stored similar codes and our mileages are also similar, tho 65k is typically way early for new O2's. I haven't addressed it yet.

Does your car exhibit the 2800 rpm hesitation under heavier load in higher gears, for example accelerating an uphill onramp?

There is a thread on O2's with info that'll save you some bucks. I'll find it and update this post.

[echo46]

This problem is still driving me crazy. I have no hestations and once the car is running it runs and idles perfect. The problem is after driving then letting it sit for an hour or so, The car is loath to start- i.e. More cranking time then starts very weakly and idles very low. Then I hit the gas and everything is perfect. Here's what I have done to date:

1. Cleaned icv, MAF and throttle body.
2. Vanos refresh and vcg replace
3. spark plugs
4. Checked all coils
5. Replaced both intake boots
6. All belts and pulleys replaced
7. Fuel filter replaced.

I will look into the O2 sensor possibility. Someone here smarter than me has to help a brother out. If not I am going to have to take her in to dealer or Indy.

[danewilson77]

You have probably answered this 5 times already....but....you have no SES light? I see above you said you were going to get tool to see if you have any "hidden" codes. Damn....you've just about replaced everything with exception replacing ICV, and MAF sensor. I would day either one of these have failed or you have a well hidden vacuum leak.

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[kayger12]

I'm still betting your fuel pump is on the way out.

[echo46]

What about the preCat o2 sensor. If I do the fuel pump do I have to do the sender unit too? I just want to hear and feel that strong start up again.

[kayger12]

Not seeing the connection of the pre-cats to the warm-only problem. -- of course that doesn't mean it's not.

If the fuel pump overheats, the relay usually isn't far behind. I would do both.

If it's vacuum-leak related, the one thing that it could be is one of the ccv hoses. You've just about replaced everything else.

Tough call at this point. I hate to spend money just guessing.

Did you hook up a code reader yet to ensure no hidden codes? That might save both money and trouble if you get lucky and there's a stored code in there.

[telijah]

How long after initial start does it take before it starts idling normally? Few seconds, few minutes etc? Also, when you give it gas and you say it runs fine, does it immediately start idling fine as well?

[echo46]

Didn't do the hidden codes yet as I'm trying to find someone with a code reader. Usually on the warm start it cranks longer then fires up real weak and idles low, once I give it gas everything is normal. It immediatley idles normally. I know I'm killing you guys with this, sorry. So would the fuel pump heating up cause this problem? How about leaky fuel injector?

[telijah]

Thats why I was asking how long to return to normal idle on it's own, or after giving the accelerator pedal a push, was thinking a leaky injector may not be closing when off, letting fuel drip into the cylinder and flooding it out upon first start. If you drive the car, shut it off, and immediately restart it, does it idle fine? If so, could likely be a leaky injector.

[echo46]

Yes, if I shut it off and start it up immediately, it starts and idles fine. How do I determine which injector is leaking.

[telijah]

That, I really have no clue. One thing that would be helpful to know, if if the fuel rail is suppose to hold the pressure when the car is shut off. If it is suppose to hold the pressure, you could hook up a pressure meter to the check port close to the firewall, with the car running, then shut off the car and see how long, if at all, it holds pressure. I am gonna check up All Data real quick and see if it has any ideas on testing fuel pressure and if the fuel rail is suppose to retain the pressure when shut off...

[telijah]

OK, apparently it is suppose to hold pressure in the delivery line when shut off. If the pressure drops .05 bar or more after 20 - 30 minutes after shutting off the car, then you either have a bad vacuum line that is connected to the fuel pressure regulator, or a bad fuel pressure regulator. Could also be a fault in delivery lines, fault in in-tank delivery hose, or faulty check-valve in the fuel pump that is suppose to stop fuel from going backward through the fuel pump.

[telijah]

More info on specifically starting problems

Complaint: starting problems

Run engine briefly at idle speed and switch off.
Note measuring value when engine is stationary.
Read off measured value again after approx. 20 to 30 minutes with engine stopped.


The special tool 13 3 010 (hose clip) is needed for the following check.


If the measured value has dropped by more than 0.5 bar
Start engine and wait briefly for a stable pressure increase.
Switch off the engine and immediately pinch off the delivery line just before the pressure gauge with the special tool 13 3 010.
Note down measured value.
Read off measured value again after approx. 20 to 30 minutes with engine stopped.


If the measured value has now dropped by less than 0.5 bar , the following faults may be present:

Fault in delivery lines
Fault in in-tank delivery hose
Faulty pressure-holding non-return valve in fuel pump Check components. Replace faulty components.


If the measured value has again dropped by more than 0.5 bar :

Replace pressure regulator


NOTE:

All the fuel hoses and hose clips which were detached within the framework of the checks must be replaced.
Fault messages may be stored in the fault memory of the DME control unit if the vehicle is operated in the intervening period. The fault messages "Incorrect lambda control" or "Lambda control at stop" must be cleared after the check is completed:


Interrogate fault memory of DME control unit. Check stored fault messages. Rectify faults. Now clear the fault memory.

[echo46]

Wow, that's great stuff telijah, thanks. This morning I changed the fuel pump and the sender unit. Only took me about 45 minutes but alas the problem persists. At this point I feel like a very poor man's version of the ancient great Greek King of Ithaca, Odysseus. I, like Odysseus, on a long and arduous journey searching in vain for home and our Penelope-i.e. Odysseus' wife and my ZHP. Odysseus' Penelope eluded him for ten long years just as long as this start up problem seems to be eluding me. However, Telijah may have cast some light on my journey and hopefully and end to my odyssey. Hopefully, the old Penelope will be located and all will be right on Long Island as it was in Ithaca upon the return of the great Odysseus. Anyway, I turn my search to the delivery lines.

[kayger12]

Ugh. Sorry to hear that wasn't it.

Keep at it, bro.

[billschusteriv]

I've had a similar issue.

I would suggest checking the vacuum line that runs from the fuel filter (?) to the intake (connects to a two part tee just behind the air fitler box). Since you "just" replaced the fuel filter, it's possible that this connection has become loose and you are now sucking "air" in around the line. A zip tie was added to my connection behind the air filter box to help "seal" the connection.

[telijah]

I've had a similar issue.

I would suggest checking the vacuum line that runs from the fuel filter (?) to the intake (connects to a two part tee just behind the air fitler box). Since you "just" replaced the fuel filter, it's possible that this connection has become loose and you are now sucking "air" in around the line. A zip tie was added to my connection behind the air filter box to help "seal" the connection.

Odd, I thought I mentioned this line. This is just after the throttle body, correct? This is the actual vacuum line used to determine what fuel pressure is needed.

[echo46]

Thanks guys, I will have my Penelope opened up again and looking for the elusive leak. I will check this line first. I will also check the CCV hoses carefully. I guess what I don't understand is why this only happens on a warm start up? Also, wouldn't such a vacuum leak cause rough idling more often?

[telijah]

Only on warm start ups? I asked earlier and I thought you said if you turned the car off and tried starting it right again you do not get this issue? OK, so does the issue seem to happen with greater frequency if the car is left to sit longer? I am still thinking this is a injector leaking that is just flooding a cylinder, which gets cleared out when you rev it. You really need to see if the fuel rail is holding pressure / not dropping more than .5 bar after 20-30 minutes when shut off.

[echo46]

Indeed, if I turn I the car off and restart it there is no problem. However, for an hour or so it struggles to start then revs low until I give it gas then everything is normal. I don't smell no gas at the rail on the bad start. Shouldn't there be a gas smell if the cylinder is flooded. To clarify, first start in the morning is fine, then after that during the day, bad starts after the car sits for at least 45 min to an hour.

[telijah]

Oh, well hell then I am at a loss. The only thing I can suggest would be to measure the pressure before first start of the day with car off, then after starting it, and then measure it again after sitting for about an hour with the car off, and right after starting again, to see if there is a difference.

[billschusteriv]

Picture of vacuum hose needing zip tie:

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad185/bill_schuster/IMG00223-20111104-1437.jpg

Blackberry. Tapatalk.

[danewilson77]

Looks like you need "F" fitting part number?

[echo46]

Well, I was back at it again today for about 7 hours. I took off everything to get a really good look at the oil separator and all it's cheap ass hoses which are impossible to get off. Anyway, when I looked at the oil separator it was full of oily grease and grime. I got excited as maybe, just maybe, I found the culprit. So off to the stealership and $215 later I had a cold climate oil separator, new hoses and a new o ring for the oil stick. Replaced everything, what a royal bitch. Crossed my fingers, prayed to the bimmer Gods and turned her over.

It was a very inauspicious start as the car turned over for a good three to four seconds before firing, and a very marginal fire at that. Figured it was just because of the new parts. Out I went for a spirited test ride. Things seemed fine, idled at about 6 to 7 hundred and drove fine. Came back turned it off, the right back on and it seemed to fire strong but low and behold......SES popped on. You bastard I growled to myself and anyone in earshot. Now what?

By the way, does advanced auto read codes?

[danewilson77]

Advanced should. Sorry to hear. I wanna know what the code is first.

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[billschusteriv]

When I replaced the oil separator (previously called CCB), I also got a SES light. The code was for air inlet temp low.

There is a sensor that you should've needed to disconnect to get to the oil separator around/in between the intake manifold. This is very difficult to get reconnected. Make sure to use fingers on both ends of connector if you can - or use tool for assist.

I got this code and tried clearing it. It comes back every restart.

Sorry, I'm on travel and can't take a pic of the connector/sensor for you right now.

Blackberry. Tapatalk.

[billschusteriv]

Advance and Autozone should read codes for free.

Blackberry. Tapatalk.

[echo46]

Bill, your on the money. Forgot to connect one of the many electrical connectors from the octopus. Thing was hidden down in the depths of the wirey mess. Anyway, I went back in there and after poking around for about ten minutes I found the culprit, hooked it back up and the SES light went off. I will be driving her all day tomorrow so hopefully it is fixed. Not holding my breath but thanks for everyone's help and patients with my nonsense.

[danewilson77]

Huge smile on my face right now. Well done.

You score an above average in sticktoitness.

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[telijah]

OK, you've had it all weekend, any update?

[aurelius]

Since this appears to have been a CCV issue, I thought I'd post the fun little DIY diagnostic tests, as well as BMW's Service Information Bulletin 110803 parts list for rehabbing your CCV:

1.
At warm idle, place small plastic freezer storage bag on its side over the oil fill hole. If the bag sits on top or gets slightly sucked in, ~1", the
valve is good. If the bag gets significantly sucked in the hole the valve is stuck open and bad.

2.
With the engine off and cold, carefully remove the hose at the valve cover front corner. Blow hard into the hole. You should hear oil bubbling in the oil pan. If you don't hear the bubbling, the top or bottom hose is likely cracked. The bottom hose often breaks just below the valve connection. There can also be cracks in the other two hoses.

Download the July, 2010 update to SIB 110803 HERE (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17676561/BMW%20docs/SIB%20110803%20ColdWeatherOilSep.pdf).

[echo46]

That's funny because I read the same thing about an hour after I fininished my CCV and hose replace. Did both and I now have a good CCV.

Even after the CCV replace, the car is still sluggish on a later day start up. That being said, the CCV and hose replace was not in vain as the CCV was covered in Oil and grimey grit. Indeed, the car feels as though it has more pull and much better throttle response. Anyway, I have another thread where I am conjecturing that the starter is going bad based upon a metal grind noise right after start-up that lasts for about a second. It is the same sound as David's car in his thread. It sounds like it"s coming from the starter area. I am going to try to post a video later tonight. One thing I will say is that after all this I know my way around the driver's side of the engine.

[echo46]

BY the way, I have been doing a lot of reading and research on the ccv issues. I know BMW put out a bulletin to convert our M54s over to the cold weather ccv package, which is a coated ccv and insulated hoses. I also know that they redesigned the dipstick. Conversley, I have read about a number of instances where freezing still occurred, even after conversion to the cold weather ccv, due to dipstick issues. Accordingly, check out the following options:
1. http://vsetrack.com/track_reports/20..._separator.htm

This option seems like a much simplier way to go.

2. I have also read where people are simply plugging both the manifold ccv opening and the dipstick openeing, then running a hose from the valve cover to a catch can thereby eliminating the entire issue of crankcase fumes going back into the engine. All you need to worry about is emptying the catch can. Don't know if I'm gutsy enough and/or handy enough to undertake this but this ccv seems to be about as bad a design flaw as our cooling systems.

[aurelius]

http://vsetrack.com/track_reports/20..._separator.htm


Linky no worky. But I'm interested in reading that if you can repost a working link.

EDIT: I think I found it...

http://vsetrack.com/track_reports/2010/bmw_motorsport_oil_separator/bmw_motorsport_oil_separator.htm

[echo46]

Yes, that's it. I am going to do some more research but looks promising.

[aurelius]

Let's get a new thread going on this. Very intrigued over here...

[aurelius]

Back to your original problem, check this out:

http://www.bmpdesign.com/technical/direct_fire.php

[echo46]

That's funny, I read the same thing about a month ago and pulled each coil with the glass of water on the manifold. Pulled each coil and they all tested out good. I'm not getting any CEL. The only thing is that it starts up a bit odd yet. Could it be the crankshaft position sensor going bad or would that throw a code?

[aurelius]

Excerpted from the E46 Common Problems document originally compiled by the guy at Beisan Systems:

Camshaft position sensors can fail and cause problems. They will usually
produce a code, but they might initially malfunction without producing a
code. A failing exhaust CPS will cause light performance problems. A failing
intake CPS can cause significant performance problems.
Aftermarket CPS sensors don't work. OE CPS sensors are only available
through BMW.

[echo46]

What about the crankshaft position sensor. As far as the camshaft position sensors I understand that it is usually the intake that goes bad? I don't want to keep throwing blind monkey at this as the car runs beautifully except for this minor hiccup at start. However, it has been a bleats trying to diagnose. Leaning a lot.