All Seasons Vs Snow Tires

[M3TA5IN]

How do you guys feel about this? I think I'm about to get another set of wheels. I don't have a winter set up, so I was wondering what you guys think. I really dont want a soley dedicated winter set. I would just like to be able to switch wheels when I want.

Im looking at another set of 19s, probably VMRs VB3s or 701s or 710s undecided right now.

You guys that live in the north and get snow, do you think all seasons are good enough in the snow? What are your thoughts?

Thanks

[az3579]

All seasons are "OK". Snow tires are king. Get snow tires and you'll be wondering why people think they "need" AWD.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I lived in snow with a BMW. I had dedicated snows.

I once got caught in a snow storm (early snow) before my snows went on. I was driving all seasons at the time. It was a trip of a lifetime.

I'm one of those guys who would try to convince you to get snows. Night and day difference to me.

[strz0001]

Highly recommend dedicated snows if you are driving in snow alot - the difference in driving is incredible. Also consider rim size less than 18 or 19. I've used 16 sport addition uglies for a few years and am thinking some 17" reps 135's would be great. Hard to find though.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I had 17 inch snows. Worked well.

[M3TA5IN]

Highly recommend dedicated snows if you are driving in snow alot - the difference in driving is incredible. Also consider rim size less than 18 or 19. I've used 16 sport addition uglies for a few years and am thinking some 17" reps 135's would be great. Hard to find though.

Thats my dilemma, i dont care what time of year it is. I dont want my care to look funky with a odd snow set up. I found almost brand new blizzaks on some tire rack AE7 sport rim M3 fitment for $775, but I just cant see those wheels on my car. This is driving me nuts :(

Wheels on a car are like a womens hair, you f it up and a 10 can become a 6.3 after a couple shots :p

[az3579]

Unfortunately, if you want a dedicated set of snows, 18's or 19's ain't gonna cut it. As far as I know, the smaller the better.
I believe skinnier is better as well.

[M3TA5IN]

Grr this is disappointing but I appreciate your guys input.

[az3579]

Grr this is disappointing but I appreciate your guys input.

The alternative is to get very high quality all-seasons (like I will in a couple of months - going with Continental DWS) and not have to worry about crappy looking wheels in the winter. Or, buy snow tires and mount when needed. Change back when done. Our local Town Fair Tire will do free tire changeover when the seasons change if you buy from them, for example... (not that I would go there for that)


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[nike001]

If you're looking at 19's...it seems you're more likely to get A/S instead of snows.

I have a separate set of snow tires and I would honestly be lost without them...and I'll probably feel unsafe in the future with any car that doesn't have a set of snows.

[Mike V]

All seasons are "OK". Snow tires are king. Get snow tires and you'll be wondering why people think they "need" AWD.


BP always seems to say the things that I have on my mind. :) There really is a huge difference in snow traction between winter tires and no-seasons. Also keep in mind that not all winter tires aren't created equal. If you still want to maintain decent grip in the dry, I've found that the Dunlop 3D does very well. You'll give up a little snow traction compared to tires such as the Blizzak, but the Blizzaks have mushy sidewalls. Here in central MO, we don't typically get a lot of snowstorms so the 3Ds work great for me. When I eventually move to MN, I'll likely switch back to Blizzaks for the snow traction.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Yep. Good point, Mike, on the difference in snow tires. I lived in Idaho. Lots of snow and ice during the winter. I ran Blizzaks. If you don't get a lot of snowstorms (and we did), then a Blizzak may be unnecessary.

[M0nk3y]

Unfortunately, if you want a dedicated set of snows, 18's or 19's ain't gonna cut it. As far as I know, the smaller the better.
I believe skinnier is better as well.

Exactly.

The skinnier the tire you have the easier it is to cut through snow and reach pavement. If you have a wide tire on the car it will float on top of the snow and you will do nothing.

I don't know what the relation is with wheel size, but I assume it's directly related to width (smaller wheel = smaller width).

During the summer on my E46 I ran 235s on 18s. Winter I was on 205s on 16s.

Anyways. I ran on A/S Tires through winter on Lake Effect Snow. Never got stuck and never had trouble. It all comes down to driver skill. If you know what the tires can and can't do...it's literally impossible IMO to get in trouble unless mother nature does it for you.

[lilcdkey]

I used all-seasons in the crazy Chicago winters, never really had a problem. You can survive with all-seasons, snows aren't 100% necessary imo.

[az3579]

I used all-seasons in the crazy Chicago winters, never really had a problem. You can survive with all-seasons, snows aren't 100% necessary imo.

Depends on where you live. Chicago is fine; that's a city that regularly gets de-iced and plowed. In places where a truck doesn't come by very often, you wouldn't survive a second with all seasons.

Definitely a choice to make depending on where you drive.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Rovert]

It all depends on how fast you want to stop given an unplanned obstacle. I had snows on, my friend's Audi Quattro had all seasons. Opposing car spun out and blocked our lane. I hit the brakes to scrub speed and turned around the spun out car. My friend's Audi hit the car. Who's saving time, money, hassle now?

[billschusteriv]

I tried posting a reply to your question earlier... but Tapatalk wasn't having any of it.


Right now, these are the wheels/tires I've got on the cars:

02 325XiT: 205/55-16 Hankook Ventus V4s, mounted on Style 45's.
90 325iS: 195/65-14 BFG Traction T/A on rear (wider/deeper treads), Falken Ziex ZE-912 on front, mounted on factory 'weaves.
Ford Taurus (wife's): 215/60-16 BFG Traction T/A, mounted on factory alloys.

I have found, based on my personal experience and driving style, all of the aforementioned tires have handled quite well for me.

I've never owned a set of snow tires. Snow tires and other things (AWD/4WD) may help but won't make you invincible.

I've driven FWD (Ford Taurus, Chevy Cavalier), RWD (BMW e30), AWD (BMW e46 touring), and RWD/4WD (Toyota Pickup, 4Runner) vehicles on All-Seasons/All-Terrains in PA and NY snows for the last 15 years. Doesn't make me an expert, but I haven't had a snow/ice related accident.

Changing your driving style based on road conditions is really key and king in these situations. Driving slower, leaving more distance, not making sharp turns, not accelerating into, during, or coming out of a turn, not passing/changing lanes across snow 'lumps', and using unplowed shoulders in icy conditions are all tips that I've found helpful while driving in wintery conditions.

That said, I will be outfitting the touring with high performance all-seasons (that carry better ratings) and snows either this winter or once the V4s wear out. We're going to be driving to Buffalo to visit the in-laws and I've got some pretty precious cargo now. If I can buy my wife some piece of mind and myself a better tool for driving in wintery weather, I'm all about it.

Configurations under consideration:

Summer: 225/45-17, Continential ExtremeContact DWS(?), mounted on Style 73's.
Winter: 205/55-16, Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D or Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3, mounted on Style 45's.

[T.Bird]

The alternative is to get very high quality all-seasons (like I will in a couple of months - going with Continental DWS)

Nice! I plan on ordering these next week from tirerack and picking them up from the warehouse in Hartford. I've been researching for a couple of months and these have GREAT reviews.

[Mtnman]

I have dws. and I live in the mtns...they did very well last year in the snow. Had mich pilot spt all season plus before. They also ddid very well. Can't go wrong with either.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

[T.Bird]

I have dws. and I live in the mtns...they did very well last year in the snow. Had mich pilot spt all season plus before. They also ddid very well. Can't go wrong with either.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

How is the dry traction with the DWS? How many miles have you put on them?

[Mtnman]

Pretty good. I think the mich pilotspt plus were a little better, but I haven't ever broken loose on the dws. I have had them squeal in turns, but never let go, so all in all id say that the dws are fine. I drive aggressively, andd also just put in new suspension that makes me want to take the turns faster than I did with the michelins. Really, they only sqealed when I was "testing" the new suspension, so it might not be fair to compare that to the mich . Also, botond just got the dws and posted that he thinks they are great traction, fyi.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

[T.Bird]

Thanks for the info! I'm glad to see that a couple of members have gone with the DWS.

[BCS_ZHP]

I've used the DWSs for the last 3 E46s, absolutely great dry & wet tire. However, they aren't so good in the snow. I'm in DC and we get that wet thick mess, not a fluffy snow. About all they were good for was to get you home and wait for the roads to be plowed the next day.

And then there's tire wear, since you can't rotate the 135s the rear tires are going to eat quickly. Had to replace one rear at 7K miles due to a nail so did both rear tires and on the one I good one saved, half the tread was gone. That was on the coupe, the conv has more miles (9K) on the same tire and is still 2/3rd's tread.

[az3579]

Nice! I plan on ordering these next week from tirerack and picking them up from the warehouse in Hartford. I've been researching for a couple of months and these have GREAT reviews.

Don't order from TireRack. It's not worth it for us that live in CT; after shipping and taxes, you're nearing $100 more from Tire Rack for this set compared to somewhere else. Even since you're picking up, you still have to pay for gas and taxes, which is still more than you should be paying.

Try discounttiredirect.com. Their prices are much better because of free shipping, no tax.

[T.Bird]

Hmm, I'm altering tire sizes slightly and from what I had seen even with taxes, tirerack was about $40 cheaper than anywhere else (and my wife already works in Hartford). I'll check again though, thanks!

[danewilson77]

Hmm, I'm altering tire sizes slightly and from what I had seen even with taxes, tirerack was about $40 cheaper than anywhere else (and my wife already works in Hartford). I'll check again though, thanks!

I love Tirerack.....plus...it seems like I can get tires in about a day with them. I will always check Discount Tire (affiliate link) (http://gan.doubleclick.net/gan_click?lid=41000000036417772&pubid=21000000000332383) first because it's now an affiliate though.

[llll1l1ll]

You get them in a day because they ship from Delaware.

[danewilson77]

You get them in a day because they ship from Delaware.

Yup. Knew that.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[quikryptonite]

Exactly.

The skinnier the tire you have the easier it is to cut through snow and reach pavement. If you have a wide tire on the car it will float on top of the snow and you will do nothing.



My winter setup is 225/40/17. The guy I bought my winter setup from threw in a box of spacers. Do I want to use those, or would it be better to go square in the snow?

[UdubBadger]

Personally I think the approach needs to be not "snow" but "winter" tires vs A/S and I say that because the focus should be on the temperature the rubber compound can function properly at. Then you can decide if you need "snow" traction or not.

A/S rubber only works down to about 20-25 deg until they become bricks and lose most traction. Snow or not, you'll not get much cornering or stopping out of them. Winter tires are designed to work at temps 45 and lower so if it's 10 deg out, your tires will grip like they're a set of Pilot Super Sports in mid August (well maybe not but you know what I mean). It's advised if you live in an area that sees sub 30 deg weather often to have winter tires, especially on a car like a ZHP where taking corners is 1/2 the fun of driving it.

Then after that, you can decide how snow will factor into the equation by selecting either a performance, studless ice/snow or studable winter tire.

I have done AWD and A/S up in Madison and while I was fine, the car didn't handle nearly the way it should and though I got by, it was mostly by overusing ABS, DTC and the power distribution of the AWD system.

[yura]

I dont want my care to look funky with a odd snow set up.

There's another way to look at that...

Would you rather see your car on some "ugly" 17" rims snow tires, or smashed to shit in a ditch because you lost traction and crashed the car? Compared to all-seasons, winter tires are a night and day difference. Furthermore, here in BC, if you drive anywhere past the "winter tires required" street signs (these signs are on every local mountain) without winter tires and get into an accident, your insurance is VOID.

[Oli77]

^+1
I don't care what my rims look like in the winter. The one I found this summer actually look good to me (here, post #6 (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?3798-Winter-Wheel-Tire-Thread&highlight=pirelli)).

For the first time, I will be driving a dedicated snow setup this year.
I'll post after a while (and snow), but I expected big differences with last year (I got stuck at the bottom of the court and the incline is not even that big).

[Rovert]

If there is a little bit of threatening here...it's only tough love as we mafia members care about one another.

:fistpump :grouphug

[billschusteriv]

If there is a little bit of threatening here...it's only tough love as we mafia members care about one another.

:fistpump :grouphug

Well said Trevor.

Be safe this season everyone.

BlackBerry 9300. Tapatalk.

[Rovert]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d8fb9842-e4b3-eacd.jpg

Sweeeeet!! I'm glad I have winters. Public buses are going sideways downhill!!

Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk

[edlvrt]

LOL snow. On a serious note, be safe out there.

[Rovert]

Yup! thanks...before I left the house I could tell that conditions were going to be sloppy and unfavorable for performance winter rubber so I dropped the tire pressure below 30 and went out. Luckily I did because I had to reverse and go back up a hill since it was blocked going down. Most people had a hard time turning around on the steep grade. Every FWD vehicle was spinning and I'm thinking they weren't prepared as this was the 1st snowfall. Only 4WD's followed me up the hill!

[yura]

Went up to Baker on Friday for some skiing. Had 4x4 trucks and SUVs drifting in front of me the whole way. Got it all on video, too!

I got up without any problems on performance winter rubber. Hankook IPIKE W310 - 225/40/17 up front, 235/40/17 in the rear.

http://i.imgur.com/Od6QV.jpg

[danewilson77]

Gawd that looks good on the snow.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[UdubBadger]

Went up to Baker on Friday for some skiing. Had 4x4 trucks and SUVs drifting in front of me the whole way. Got it all on video, too!

I got up without any problems on performance winter rubber. Hankook IPIKE W310 - 225/40/17 up front, 235/40/17 in the rear.

http://i.imgur.com/Od6QV.jpg

those E9x style 161's on there?

[yura]

those E9x style 161's on there?

Yessir. Picked them up for use as dedicated winters.

[Rovert]

Sweet! A Vancouverite ZHP!

[UdubBadger]

looks good. had um on my e90 328

[ryankokesh]

I'm currently running Conti DWS's, and can't decide if I should pick up a set of winters I found a good deal on locally. I've been fine the past two winters with the conti's, but although they haven't worn past the "S" yet, they also aren't new anymore. And seems like rather cheap insurance... Thoughts?

[Rovert]

If you can get extra rims to mount winters on then you can swap them out ever season on your own at home and over the course of a few years those wheels will pay for themselves in just the "would have had to balance/mount" costs every season. While I've heard so many good reviews on the DWS, they can't ever be made to match winter tire performance with tread wear and performance it has in the dry/wet. I think I was just watching a show on TV with two identical cars on the ice rink, one with a "3 season" and one with winters. They got the cars up to 25mph and when they came to a panic stop, the "3 season" tire stopped 18 feet past the winter tire which can result in matter trying to occupy matter. LOL. Yes it is an insurance that you may never know if it paid back. But either pay now or pay later...you decide. :)

[ryankokesh]

But either pay now or pay later...you decide. :)

Haha... story of my life :)

Thanks for the advice though. They're already mounted on rims, so I think I'll give it a go.

[Rovert]

Just remember handling is going to suck compared to what you're used to. Braking is going to feel mushy with temperatures just above freezing. Braking is still going to feel slightly mushy when it's below freezing, but you will be able to decelerate quicker than your all seasons could. A good ol' give some/take some lesson!

[Oli77]

Can't wait to try my ipikes and sotozerros in the snow this winter.

[quikryptonite]

This is the 10 day forecast for my neck of the woods. Think I can put my summer rubber back on the 17th? You neve know in Utah though. It's such a funny place, last year the ski resorts were open into June.

http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/USUT0225:1:US

[UdubBadger]

Despite the warmth I'm waiting till April


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk... Bitches

[ryankokesh]

Mine are coming off this weekend... And I'm a certified meteorologist. (ok, so I'm just proud of the weather and climate class I took...)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mLuMaN83]

I rocked summer tires all winter in VT. I like to live on the edge.

I needed new tires anyways so I'm waiting on getting new wheels before tires. Gonna go all seasons on my CSLs.

[zhpnsnv]

I've needed my snow tires once this winter, and I'm not going to complain about it. Summer rubber will be going back on in April.

[ryankokesh]

I've needed my snow tires once this winter, and I'm not going to complain about it.

Same here.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Oli77]

Just took mine off. I never got to try those Pirelli and Hankook in the snow this winter :crying

But man, does it feel good to be back on the summer Hankooks! So much more precision and feel.

Still, there was plenty of rain this winter and I felt totally anchored with the winter setup.

[quikryptonite]

This was one of the few snow days we had this year where it really came down fast. The location is right up the road from me. This video has gone viral, maybe y'all have seen this before. Pretty crazy stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrJuigh2aCc

[terraphantm]

I've had my summer tires on since the beginning of March. This winter was a joke. And even if we do end up getting a freak storm, I can usually afford to just leave the car parked for a day or two.

[Rovert]

Same here! My winters got used for one snowy climax that lasted 3 hours this season. If I had my summers on I just wouldn't have gone out. But who knows...I did have to do a few really quick slow downs in the cold wet and I'm sure my winters were soft enough to grab the ground better than harder colder summer rubber.

[UdubBadger]

getting my summers on today

[BRGcoopahS]

havent read the topic but all seasons are really just "no seasons". I would just get great summer tires that also work in the wet, and then good winter tires.
The all season potenzas in my MINI are terrible in the rain, I cant drive aggressively at all wit them.

[UdubBadger]

had the same problem on my RSX-S - stock MXM4 pilots sucked so hard in the rain. Instead of getting new tires I just bought a grand cherokee instead. :rofl

[ryankokesh]

Reasonable solution :D