1st Gear Question

[Newjack]

Okay so maybe this is totally normal I'm not really sure. I seem to have problems shifting into first gear the faster my car moves. Let's say I'm in second gear and I decided to throw it into first to engine brake or because I know I'm about to come to a complete stop and I need to take off.

The shifter seems to get stuck on something and if you push hard enough it makes this really weird high pitch sound. I can't explain it with words (I've been thinking about how to describe the noise since I noticed it a month ago.) I don't have to use a lot of force to shift but much more than normal.

It's not really a problem because I rarely have to downshift into first gear. But it gets kind of annoying when I'm going 10mph or so and it sticks a little. It seems like the faster the car is moving the harder it is to shift into first. None of the other gears have this problem.

I just assumed it was some type of safety measure so you don't accidently throw the car into first trying to shift into third and grenade the transmission.

[Alphatek45]

Hmmm, I don't think I've downshifted into first...ever. Like as in all the cars ive owned put together. May apply in auto-X, but daily driving?
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in, but out of curiosity (sincerely not trying to be a dick) why downshift into 1st?

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I've also never downshifted into first gear. I typically slow down in second (or neutral). I might shift into first while I am going about 2 MPH.

[mach.schnell]

Sorry to sound harsh, but there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to shift into first unless you're at a complete dead stop. Exactly how long does it take then to push a pedal, click into first and pop the clutch to "take off"?

The sound you're hearing are the lockout bearings and is a safety feature, but not to avoid a shift into third, but for making sure you don't grind up first gear. Given the car you have, with any slightest forward movement whatsoever you should be in second to "take off".

I would suggest you don't be surprised when your transmission fails prematurely. Admittedly I'm not a transmission mechanic, but it would be great for any here to explain the slip rings and stuff - things I've long forgotten except for the above warning I once got.

The BMW CCA Tech Guru is a bit more genteel:
"You shouldn't be shifting into first gear except at a standing stop..."
- Mike Miller (Tech Talk) Roundel Feb. 2010 pg.104


Schnell

[iZHP]

definitely would never downshift into 1st. It kind of sounds like it was gears grinding?

[az3579]

That high pitched noise you hear are the synchros going crazy. Do that a few more times and you'll have an even harder time going into first.
+1 on keeping it in 2nd even if you're just barely rolling.

[Newjack]

I've also never downshifted into first gear. I typically slow down in second (or neutral). I might shift into first while I am going about 2 MPH.

This is what I was meant when I said I shift into first. Didn't mean to sound like a complete retard. Poor choice of words in my original post.

This is my first manual car, and I have only been driving it for about two months now. So I am still learning.

I just thought it was weird that I had trouble shifting into first gear even though the clutch is fully depressed. (When pulling into my driveway or coming up to a stop sign when I know I am about to stop. I normally throw it in neutral so I don't ride the clutch.

[M0nk3y]

There is usually a protective gate so you don't money shift into first.

If it happens like you said...put it I in neutral, pull the clutch out and press it back in.

First should be easy then

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[Marcus-SanDiego]

This is what I was meant when I said I shift into first. Didn't mean to sound like a complete retard. Poor choice of words in my original post.

This is my first manual car, and I have only been driving it for about two months now. So I am still learning.

I just thought it was weird that I had trouble shifting into first gear even though the clutch is fully depressed. (When pulling into my driveway or coming up to a stop sign when I know I am about to stop. I normally throw it in neutral so I don't ride the clutch.

Ahh! Now I understand. No worries. I thought you were throwing it into first gear at a much higher speed.

All good.

[MasterC17]

So, basically you are saying it goes hard into first? Mine does this all the time, whether at a complete stop, or 1mph, or 2mph. I have no idea why. I've asked others about it and they've said the same thing. One guy mentioned to tap the throttle while in neutral before engaging first gear, haven't tried it myself yet.

However, I have never heard a high-pitched whine sound. And, as others have said, never engage first above I would say 3mph if not already in it.

[SoarinZHP]

My mechanic gave me a piece of advice.. When slowing a car, there are two things you can use... THe brakes or the engine. To use the engine is harder on the clutch unless you are good at rev-matching with the throttle. By using the clutch, you are forcing the flywheel to increase in speed with each downshift, increasing the wear rate of the clutch. Great for accelerating out of corners, tho. The other option is the brakes. Brakes are a whole lot cheaper to replace than a clutch.

It depends on preference. They have this one customer who downshifts ALL the time. They put more clutches on his car than brakes. Considering the cost of a mechanic doing the clutch, I am wary of frequently downshifting to slow the motor vehicle...

[Johnmadd]

^+1 brakes are cheaper than clutch, I always say that.
I was taught to never downshift into first.

[az3579]

By using the clutch, you are forcing the flywheel to increase in speed with each downshift, increasing the wear rate of the clutch. Great for accelerating out of corners, tho. The other option is the brakes. Brakes are a whole lot cheaper to replace than a clutch.


The perfect remedy to this problem is learning how to rev-match every single shift. I wouldn't be surprised that if one drives a car since new, the original clutch would last at least 200k if this person rev-matched every shift and followed good manual driving practices (no riding clutch or sitting at a stop light while clutched in the whole time).

[SoarinZHP]

Agreed! My former BMW had a UUC stage 1 lightweight flywheel. Rev-Matching was cake. The ZHP has a stock flywheel. Taking a lot of practice. I would assume an attempt at rev-matching will be better for the clutch than not?

[az3579]

Agreed! My former BMW had a UUC stage 1 lightweight flywheel. Rev-Matching was cake. The ZHP has a stock flywheel. Taking a lot of practice. I would assume an attempt at rev-matching will be better for the clutch than not?

Yes. The revs will be closer to where they need to be as opposed to no attempt at all. Just as long as you don't way overshoot it, of course...

[Hornung418]

I have no issues rev matching into 1st, then using the brakes. In fact, I do it for most of the tight slow speed turns I make. It definitely doesn't clunk this way. Any other method results in clunking and that, is no bueno.

RootedDROIDXstatus. Come at me, bro.

[nike001]

I only downshift to 1st when playing around. I actually find it kind of hard to rev-match for some reason. Most of the time I do 2nd or 3rd...depending on the highest gear i was just previously crusing in. dont wanna go 6-5-4-3-2 lol

EDIT: anyone here ever try skipping rev matches? Like going from 5-3. Rev like youre going to 4th then quick rev again without actually going into 4...then going to 3. Saves some time :p

[SoarinZHP]

I almost always skip matches.... Going from 5th or 6th to 3rd or 4th. I use the downshifts interchangeably depending on how much power I'm trying to wring out of the engine without abusing it. Usually under acceleration. I typically don't downshift to slow down unless I'm going down a hill or entering a turn with the intention of coming out hot!

I originally learned how to revmatch on an old car. I would try to downshift without using the clutch - just the accelerator. When everything is synched up properly, the shifter will slide into gear. It's probably hard on the transmission but I really understood what I was trying to do and learned to do it with the pedal.

[llll1l1ll]

I rev match on my E30 and it's just fine, but I'm good at it. It's nice and smooth.

Regarding OP's 1st gear issue, not to beat a dead horse but there is no reason to do so unless you're in an autocross or are paranoid of an impending alien attack where you would need to suddenly need the most acceleration possible to outrun them from a near stand-still. Even my old, reliable and ancient E30 with its wobbly, worn-out and vague shifter will not let me stick it in to 1st. I can only easily go into 1st below 5mph, and I still have to put it in neutral, let the clutch out for a second, and then depress the clutch to engage 1st. Putting it into neutral helps the transmission get sorted out, so to speak.

Generally, with cars, if the gearshift doesn't wanna do something I'm telling it to, I don't force it. It's probably not letting for a reason that could cost me a lot of money.

[billschusteriv]

Brakes are a whole lot cheaper to replace than a clutch.

:like


Regarding OP's 1st gear issue, not to beat a dead horse but there is no reason to do so unless you're in an autocross or are paranoid of an impending alien attack where you would need to suddenly need the most acceleration possible to outrun them from a near stand-still. Even my old, reliable and ancient E30 with its wobbly, worn-out and vague shifter will not let me stick it in to 1st. I can only easily go into 1st below 5mph, and I still have to put it in neutral, let the clutch out for a second, and then depress the clutch to engage 1st. Putting it into neutral helps the transmission get sorted out, so to speak.

:rofl


I was exposed to two different schools of thought. My mother had a 88 Ford Mustang with a 5 spd. She always shifted into neutral and used the brakes when coming to a stop. Then a quick shift into first and she was off again. My father, on the other hand, always rev matched and used his clutch to engine brake. So I've picked up a rather sloppy mix of both - depends on my mood and how it affects my driving style.

After doing a number of brake changes on several different types of cars myself and not having attempted a clutch replacement, I'd opt to use my brakes. I can change those myself.

I'm sure I could do a clutch... but I'm not going to give it a go without a buddy and some beer on hand.

[az3579]

Perhaps a transmission fluid change will help with the "tough first gear". Switching to Redline fluids in mine helped with the smoothness and ease of gear changes dramatically. If there is OEM fluid in there, then you might want to consider changing your fluid. I believe tranny fluid should be done every 30k miles by those insanely obsessed. (I'm due for one right about now, actually...)

[aurelius]

Doesn't sound like the OP is having this issue but for those having trouble engaging 1st at a standstill, especially on a cold start, you may want to have a look at THIS LINK (http://blog.bavauto.com/bmw-e46/bmw-and-mini-difficult-to-get-into-1st-first-gear-manual-transmission).

You can grab 1st gear smoothly at 5-10 MPH but only with accurate rev-matching. This scenario is usually only relevant when climbing mountain switchbacks and you're trying to get the most out of the car, etc. Which is fun but not relevant for daily driving, unless you're very lucky to be driving on such roads and robbing banks on a daily basis. I think the last time I did any of that kind of driving in a car I owned was Euro Delivery of my 1st E46. I stopped the car to shoot a pic at the 1200-mile (break-in) odometer reading. I was in the mountains in Italy, so you can guess the rest. Pic below.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l584/aurelius3/Random%20BMW%20Pics/330i_frontal.jpg

[Rovert]

I've done a few downshifts into 1st when I'm ready to do it mentally. 1st gear is a beast if you need to get into position quickly while you could never think of it when you're at the bottom of 2nd. I've never done it automatically in panic situations since I don't have to do it often. But moving at 5-10mph and at the bottom of 2nd gear is not quick enough when you need to get up to speed instantly. "People" say that downshifting into 1st is a bad thing but I think it's only bad when not done correctly. I do a quick double clutch to save the syncros while aggressively rev-matching as accurately as possible and 1st just slips in. Friends always question, "Was that just 1st??" LOL. I've got just over 140K miles on my clutch and it still grabs hard for 3K launches. I've rev-match every downshift since I owned the car at 50K with a lot of aggressive clutch work in between. A few times I make small miscalculations...but it's been a great transmission to learn manual on!

[webster]

so today, all of a sudden, i am having trouble engaging 1st gear from a standstill. but not only 1st gear, ANY gear. it's as if something is 'blocking' the shift lever from entering gear.

example, sitting at a standstill, in neutral...clutch in, attempt to move lever into 1st, encounter resistance. same thing for any gear really including reverse. once i get it in gear it shifts thru all gears smoothly.

from searching and googling it could be a number of things. clutch master/slave cylinder is the worst case. tranny fluid change is the easiest solution, although i had that done a year ago (approx 7-8k miles).

any thoughts?

[danewilson77]

so today, all of a sudden, i am having trouble engaging 1st gear from a standstill. but not only 1st gear, ANY gear. it's as if something is 'blocking' the shift lever from entering gear.

example, sitting at a standstill, in neutral...clutch in, attempt to move lever into 1st, encounter resistance. same thing for any gear really including reverse. once i get it in gear it shifts thru all gears smoothly.

from searching and googling it could be a number of things. clutch master/slave cylinder is the worst case. tranny fluid change is the easiest solution, although i had that done a year ago (approx 7-8k miles).

any thoughts?

Recommend a new thread my friend.

[Hornung418]

Wes, clutch out in neutral > blip the throttle and get the trans shaft spinning > clutch in > engage 1st gear.

Your syncros seem to need some assistance meshing with the desired gear. Get into the habit of doing those steps when starting out in order to save the wear and tear of rough engagements.

[Rovert]

Could it just be that time of year again?

I sometimes have trouble going into 1st from a stop when it's the 1st few blocks and it's cold out. But if I leave the clutch in and shift to any other gear, 1st usually just slips right in. I can count on my one hand a few instances where it just didn't want 1st....so i just started in 2nd or even 3rd! After a few blocks she was all warmed up to go into 1st.

Maybe you need a flush too if it's happening at all temperatures!

[Hornung418]

Out of habit, I never shift directly into first. I shift into second, then first in one motion.

From a GS3, this was sent.

[Hermes]

Out of habit, I never shift directly into first. I shift into second, then first in one motion.

From a GS3, this was sent.

Hahahahaha... I have to do this in the F550 because the synchro in 1st is shot

[nike001]

Yeah I do what Justin says as well. Never right into first.

I have a bad(good?) habit of wiggling the shifter to make sure I'm in neutral a lot too. Whether it be coasting to a stop or sitting at a stop light where I already know it's in neutral

[Hornung418]

Yeah I do what Justin says as well. Never right into first.

I have a bad(good?) habit of wiggling the shifter to make sure I'm in neutral a lot too. Whether it be coasting to a stop or sitting at a stop light where I already know it's in neutral

That's terrible. I hate when people do that. You know it's in neutral. Keep your hands on the wheel lol.

From a GS3, this was sent.

[az3579]

That's terrible. I hate when people do that. You know it's in neutral. Keep your hands on the wheel lol.

From a GS3, this was sent.

Let him play with his stick if he wants... :biggrin
(I know, I'm bad)

[Rovert]

Ummmm.......


((walks out))

[webster]

thanks for the replies guys. after a couple days have passed it seems the issue is worst when it's cold. after she gets warmed up she shifts nice and smooth into 1st.

i'm just anal and have already started looking into clutch/tranny replacement costs...yikes!

[Rovert]

You can try double clutching into 1st when cold. Or just shift into any other gear then back into first with the clutch depressed the whole time. If not and you don't want to force...just start off easily in 2nd! You'll be fine if you baby the revs. I'm just about at 160K miles and the clutch is still grabbing strong and I'm aggressive with it with the goal for rev match accuracy!!

[az3579]

You don't even really need to baby it in 2nd gear. Starting in 2nd is almost the same as starting in first as far as feel goes.

[Rovert]

True! I meant just get used to 2nd gear and try not to heat the clutch up too much thinking you're going to stall! haha

[Hermes]

thanks for the replies guys. after a couple days have passed it seems the issue is worst when it's cold. after she gets warmed up she shifts nice and smooth into 1st.

I know what it is!!! Your cold idle is too high to engage first. Have you cleaned your ICV?

[BRGcoopahS]

You don't even really need to baby it in 2nd gear. Starting in 2nd is almost the same as starting in first as far as feel goes.

Word. I was pretty amazed how smooth 2nd is compared to 1st. The mini isn't like that at all.

[llll1l1ll]

Mine is also reluctant to shift into first if it's cold out. I just lightly try to shift into fourth and then try first, or I just lightly press the shifter into second to get the input shaft to quit moving, then I shift into first. This should help. Just be slow in the morning, she's cold!

I also double clutch when the transmission is cold.

[LivesNearCostco]

JP, that might very well be true, as my cold idle is higher than warm idle. But I also find shifting from 1st to 2nd is easier after things have warmed up. it might be the Redline MTL fluid, as that has a reputation for giving BMW transmissions a notchy feel when cold. Plus I believe my 2nd gear synchros are a bit worn.

I know what it is!!! Your cold idle is too high to engage first. Have you cleaned your ICV?

[Rovert]

^ nice someone who does what I do! :D I find when garage kept, the car operates much better than being left alone outside!! But mine's an outdoor baby. She gets plant life fallen all over her, bird crap drops, most of the time wet other than summer, and freezes shut in the winter. LOL. But she's also the cleanest looking car in the neighborhood!! Eight years of this stuff and you'd think she'd hate it and start showing it....but nope! Our cars are pretty tough!

OP, did you find out what the problem was? Maybe I overlooked it if you did comment on that.

[Sockethead]

I think all 6 speed have a little trouble with 1st gear now and then... I have trouble getting into 1st sometimes but I already knew that it was an issue with the 6 speed. If you've never changed the "lifetime" trans fluid you probably should. That quieted down my trans. I think I had 80K on it when I had it changed

[Hermes]

so I talked to Carl today and happened to mention your issue... he said he has no doubt that it's your tranny fluid. It's too thick when cold for you to engage first, but it's fine once it's warmed up. Try new fluid with a thinner cold weight (the first number)