My low coolant light came on today

[3ZHP]

When I started the car after work today, in the nice 25 deg snowy weather the low coolant light came on just for a few seconds. I've never seen this light before so I had to look up what it was. I checked the coolant and it was down about a cup or two. I filled it up and caped it. I looked under the car and the only water was from the melting snow.

What my question is; is there something lurking out there that I need to be aware of. The car has got 85K on it and nothing has been done to the cooling system.

Has anyone else experienced this?

[Marcus-SanDiego]

When I got my car in August, the first thing I did was do a total overhaul of the cooling system. Preventive maintenance all the way. I kept the parts because they're still good. If I ever sell my car, I will give the next owner all of the parts I replaced (just to show him or her how religious I was about maintaining this car).

[kayger12]

You're right in that 60-100K range for the cooling system overhaul. Could be a slow leak from a crack in the expansion tank... I'd take it as an omen that it's time to do the overhaul.

[3ZHP]

yah, I would have liked to do that but, the job market here in Ohio sucks and I'm not spending money unless I really really need to.

[kayger12]

Gotcha-- I'd take a good look at/around the expansion tank.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Gotcha-- I'd take a good look at/around the expansion tank.

Good suggestion. Good place to start.

[3ZHP]

Thanks guys, I know I had to trailer the wives 3 home last year when she dropped the water pump on the highway. I am hoping nothing like that is in the near future for mine. My car needs struts this spring. I guess I''l just add cooling sys to the list.

[kayger12]

Yeah, man. Things with the cooling system just seem to snowball once one part starts to go. I think the winter cold just makes the hot/cold cycling that much harder on the parts that are prone to failure.

[danewilson77]

Spend a lil now...or 20 times more...later....when you aluminum block melts.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/DSC02730sz1200-2.jpg

The yellow chalk line I used to enhance the hairline crack that almost cost me my engine.

I'm giving you tough love right now. Get the overhaul kit. I don't car if I gotta loan you the dough....we're all family

DW77 out!

[3ZHP]

I thought I clicked the wrong post with the Sam Adams. Thanks, I'll take a better look at it in the next few days. I haven't had that problem on either one of my other cars. 99 323I 100K, 30 325CIc 105K, How common is it?

[kayger12]

Common enough that I'm debating doing it at 50K.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/search.php?searchid=18324577&pp=25

[3ZHP]

kinda looks that way

[danewilson77]

I thought I clicked the wrong post with the Sam Adams. Thanks, I'll take a better look at it in the next few days. I haven't had that problem on either one of my other cars. 99 323I 100K, 30 325CIc 105K, How common is it?

Problem here is...I would have never seen this without pulling the tank.

[az3579]

I've got my cooling system overhaul in the next 5k or so miles.
Will replace:

* Radiator
* Upgraded expansion tank (better quality part) and cap
* Stewart water pump (I track the car - need this!)
* Hoses
* Thermostat
* Coolant level sensor



Of course, that's all assuming I'm going to have money for it. Darn Christmas time; I have to make a choice: pay off all bills and reach 0 credit card debt, or buy presents. Or do cooling system refresh. Bah.

[danewilson77]

Please provide link to upgraded tank. I would like to read up on it.

[az3579]

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=17117573781

Problem is, it doesn't say what makes it better, only that it replaces the previous inferior part.

[kayger12]

Interesting. Definitely worth looking into. I'll shoot Turner an email and ask.
Email sent.

[zhp43867]

That is the updated BMW part IIRC- if you get the right one off of Real OEM that is the same part you should get at the stealer/your parts guy/tischer.

3ZHPGUY, I had the same thing last winter. No visible leak- but an occasional coolant level low. It was a crack in the expansion tank that held and held, and at a certain pressure would just start gushing out; almost like a blow off valve. I'd suggest taking your car for a fairly hard drive, then quickly looking under the front bumper area while you have someone rev the car. That is how I've been able to find multiple coolant leaks in E46s in the past. You have to cross the pressure threshold.

It is just luck of the draw with the 330 vs your 323, however I don't know what a 30 325ic is- sorry. Do you mean E30? E30s have a bunch of annoying things with the M20 (or M42) but the cooling system is not a particularly well known weak point.

[3ZHP]

That is the updated BMW part IIRC- if you get the right one off of Real OEM that is the same part you should get at the stealer/your parts guy/tischer.

3ZHPGUY, I had the same thing last winter. No visible leak- but an occasional coolant level low. It was a crack in the expansion tank that held and held, and at a certain pressure would just start gushing out; almost like a blow off valve. I'd suggest taking your car for a fairly hard drive, then quickly looking under the front bumper area while you have someone rev the car. That is how I've been able to find multiple coolant leaks in E46s in the past. You have to cross the pressure threshold.

It is just luck of the draw with the 330 vs your 323, however I don't know what a 30 325ic is- sorry. Do you mean E30? E30s have a bunch of annoying things with the M20 (or M42) but the cooling system is not a particularly well known weak point.

Thanks, It was ironic that it happened yesterday at the end of the work day. Currently I only drive a few miles to work and the least in over 20 years. But today I needed to go to a rough section of Cleveland. From some of the comments posted I sure had something to think about. Then I remembered when I did the wives water pump, I had trouble bleeding the system. From that experience I know it doesn't take much to get her hot if things aren't right. And when the pump died, she was on the highway and got off at the first exit. Trailer-ed it home swapped out the bad pump and belt and it's been fine ever since.

[kayger12]

Here's a cut n paste of the email I received from Turner in response to my question about the tank:

Keith,


Same manufacturer, BEHR, they just updated the version to a better quality one. I think they simply thickened the plastic walls to help prevent cracking. Not sure exactly but whatever they did it worked, these last much longer.



-Doug

[danewilson77]

How do they know they last much longer. TMS is good stuff...just not totally buying it.

[kayger12]

Yeah- I'm with you. No real concrete info.

[danewilson77]

You would think if a bombshell breakthrough had been made...the vendor would know what that breakthrough was....

[kayger12]

Agreed. If they're still making it out of the same material, I don't see how much better it could be.

A little thicker- so maybe it goes another 20,000 before it fails?!

[zhp43867]

It is the updated BMW part that replaced the original used in our cars from the factory. BMW has done this many times without proof, and usually the newer part at least helps if not fixes the issue.

[az3579]

Well you can have two pieces of material, the same material, yet one be better quality. Kind of like the difference between cheap plastic and good plastic (plastic nonetheless).
I'm inclined to think their part would last you longer, though I still don't like the fact that it's plastic. But, do keep in mind, the E30's expansion tank was plastic as well and that held up fine for a very, very long time in both cases; both the original part and the replaced part.

Don't dismiss it just because it's still plastic; it may be a much higher quality plastic. I'm inclined to think it's the updated BMW part, though I can't be sure.

[MrMaico]

That's not anything exclusive to Turner. That's the same ET I got from Tischer a year ago when I did my cooling system.

[danewilson77]

Well you can have two pieces of material, the same material, yet one be better quality. Kind of like the difference between cheap plastic and good plastic (plastic nonetheless).
I'm inclined to think their part would last you longer, though I still don't like the fact that it's plastic. But, do keep in mind, the E30's expansion tank was plastic as well and that held up fine for a very, very long time in both cases; both the original part and the replaced part.

Don't dismiss it just because it's still plastic; it may be a much higher quality plastic. I'm inclined to think it's the updated BMW part, though I can't be sure.

+1

[Tampa330i]

I'll be doing this soon as well, this seems like the one thing that if left unchecked, will cost you the most later on. How long does something like all this take to replace? (by a mechanic): http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Engine/Cooling/ES2063861/

[danewilson77]

Probably looking at $500.00 labor.

Thats why I recommend diy.

Why are you chossing stage II kit over stage I kit? Just curious.

[Tampa330i]

I'd kick my own ass if I didn't get the stage 2 and one of the pieces that comes with the stage 2 and not the stage 1 breaks in a month. Or are those extra parts not as wear prone and not worth the extra if they won't be wearing out? I'm still a computer guy, so I pretty much have no idea. The concept of preventative maintenance is completely new to me.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

My good buddy, an owner of a BMW indy shop here in San Diego, tells me that the E46 is the last great BMW DIY car. If I had any mechanical inclinations, I would be all over this car.

Unfortunately, I am all thumbs.

[Tampa330i]

Its not that I don't think I can do it, I'd just rather not test my amateur skills on a car I don't even own yet which I need to be working. I have a limited tool selection as I never worked on my cars, and I live in an apartment complex where my workspace would consist of a parking spot. I go to work doing what I know how to do so I can pay someone who does this for a living to do what they know how to do. I'll get my hands wet on small stuff, like the intake box. I wouldn't even know where to start on replacing some of that stuff, hell I don't even know what some of it is!

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Its not that I don't think I can do it, I'd just rather not test my amateur skills on a car I don't even own yet which I need to be working. I have a limited tool selection as I never worked on my cars, and I live in an apartment complex where my workspace would consist of a parking spot. I go to work doing what I know how to do so I can pay someone who does this for a living to do what they know how to do. I'll get my hands wet on small stuff, like the intake box. I wouldn't even know where to start on replacing some of that stuff, hell I don't even know what some of it is!

You're preaching to a choir member here. I am with you. It's easier for me to throw money at these cars than to work on them myself. Still, if you ever do get the chance, it sounds as though this would be the best BMW to learn on.

Who knows, maybe a Dane-like Florida Mafia member will pop up -- who can take you under his wing.

[Tampa330i]

I see a hell of a lot of BMWs down here, so there's gotta be at least a handful of people who can work on them at a mechanic level. Any other mafia in central western FL?

[danewilson77]

I'd kick my own ass if I didn't get the stage 2 and one of the pieces that comes with the stage 2 and not the stage 1 breaks in a month. Or are those extra parts not as wear prone and not worth the extra if they won't be wearing out? I'm still a computer guy, so I pretty much have no idea. The concept of preventative maintenance is completely new to me.

I was just curious to hear your response.

If I were you...and I was gonna get stage II, you might just as well replace all three pulleys, since the stage II kit (unlike stage I) comes with both belts.

You would have pulley and belt, and coolant overhaul preventative maintenance done.

Then...when you go to do plugs....do your VANOS.

[3ZHP]

So, with the weather in Northern Ohio over the last few weeks being snowy and averaging in the teens and lower 20s, I decided to call the Dealer. I called this Tuesday thinking I'll take it in next week and get one of their free loaners. Nope, the service manager had me bring it in the following day at 2:00. Got finished up with the paper work and grabbed my new Roundel and headed for the waiting area. After an hour or so, the service manager I was working with came over and told me I needed a new Water Pump. He quoted me $400 something, AAAHHH that hurts. we talked for a few and he ask if I wanted to see and to the shop we went. Now I was only quoted 1/2 hour labor for the diagnosis. When I got to the car the tech had it torn apart except for removing the pump.

I told them NO, I would put it on myself, as I did it on the Wife's last summer. They said OK and put it back together and set me up with a new OEM pump, Coolant and Wiper blades for both my Bimmers. They put it all in my back seat then washed it up for me.

These guys at Ganley BMW in the Cleveland, Ohio area are the best and one of the reasons why I will maintain my brand loyalty possibly for life. or whats left of it.

The Torpedo heater is showing up Saturday morning, I'll post results when finished.

I felt so bad for the Tech, he had over half of the job done in the diagnosis and only got paid for 1/2 hr. Money's tight, ya got to do, what ya got ta do.

[danewilson77]

I bet he pissed in your expansion tank....

[az3579]

It sucks to be him, but at the same time; don't the techs get paid hourly? Regardless of what they do on the cars?

[danewilson77]

The tech that did my alignment said the book was 1.5 hours. If he got it done in an hour, or in 3 hours...he only got pair for the 1.5 hour book rate.

[pyreguy]

That's how it works at the place I use as well. That's why the harder working, faster, and more experienced techs can make more money. The job pays what the job pays, and if you can do them faster and get more jobs booked, you're golden.

[jjcools]

I am retarded when it comes to this crap but the DIY info on E46 and here are really good. I changed my oil in this car for the first time in my life (note: my life, not the cars). I ususally take it to a place but this car is easy on some items such as oil, transmission, diff... I am not saying I can fix my car but when there are detailed DIYs it helps if you want to try and save a buck.

That said when the car was still under CPO i had the coolant light come on and they replaced the sensor and expansion tank, now I need to relace the rest of the system next summer just to be safe. I wish I could do it now but just threw down about $300 for some parts and vanos stuff. Ouch! Still not mods.
:(

[3ZHP]

This is what I pulled out of the Wives 325CIc last summer and why I'm changing it out a week before Christmas.

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss351/3zhpguy/Water_Pump/IMG_4011_2.jpg

[kayger12]

This is what I pulled out of the Wives 325CIc last summer and why I'm changing it out a week before Christmas.

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss351/3zhpguy/Water_Pump/IMG_4011_2.jpg

Wow :jawdrop

Did it do any other damage?

[danewilson77]

I weep ever so softly...

[3ZHP]

nope, new pump, belt, refilled coolant and bled. Been running ever since.

[kayger12]

nope, new pump, belt, refilled coolant and bled. Been running ever since.

Good deal. I've read horror stories about when those things frag at speed...

[MrMaico]

This is what I pulled out of the Wives 325CIc last summer and why I'm changing it out a week before Christmas.

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss351/3zhpguy/Water_Pump/IMG_4011_2.jpg

Damn! Seeing that makes me question whether I should have spent the extra $100 or so on a Stewart water pump when I did mine last winter. They used to be somewhere around $150 at BMP Design but I see now they're $195 although they do offer a 10% BMWCCA discount and free shipping.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

This is what I pulled out of the Wives 325CIc last summer and why I'm changing it out a week before Christmas.

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss351/3zhpguy/Water_Pump/IMG_4011_2.jpg

I've seen a number of these at my friend's shop. Not pretty.

[danewilson77]

I have no idea what you're talking about...

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1298422

[kayger12]

I have no idea what you're talking about...

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1298422

Yep-- definitely remember that one now.

[danewilson77]

^all because his deflection pulley failed....

[3ZHP]

I think the high temp was 22 Deg. in this part of Ohio Today. I started on er at about 10:00, Finished at 4:00. That included running to the Dealer to Get an Idler Pulley. I got everything in before Noon but, when I started the car I had a strange nose at idle. So I tore it apart the second time and change out the Idler Pulley.

This first pic looks exactly the why the Tech showed it to me. Next Pick, Pump out, last new pump in.

I took many pictures and will do a post of the entire project in the DIY section when I find time. Now it's time to start my Christmas shopping.

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss351/3zhpguy/ZHP/ZHP_Water_Pump/IMG_5869.jpg

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss351/3zhpguy/ZHP/ZHP_Water_Pump/IMG_5871.jpg

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss351/3zhpguy/ZHP/ZHP_Water_Pump/IMG_5874.jpg

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss351/3zhpguy/ZHP/ZHP_Water_Pump/IMG_5879.jpg

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Guy, great job. Looking forward to seeing all of the pictures in the DIY.

[3ZHP]

Thanks

[3ZHP]

Complete job with step by step instructions now posted in the DIY section for anyone thinking about doing the job them selves.

Find the write up here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?524-Water-Pump-Failure-Diagnoses-and-Replacement).