Auto X Newbie Setups?

[M3TA5IN]

So, after going to my first Auto X event and talking to some of the people and watching for a couple hours I am excited and want to do it.

Looking for some advice though on things I should know and get.

Vehicle: 2006 330i Sport Package
Wheels: 19" OEM 359M

I figured this season will be my learning period and because I already missed 2 events I won't be able to be a serious points contender.

What are some things I can do for better weight reduction, power, handling? I know, I need to learn the basics first, but lets be serious. Mods are going to happen regardless, they might as well be practical and functional mods now and cosmetics will take a back seat for now.

Things I had on the list.

Strut Brace
Suspension
Exhaust
Intake
I imagine new wheels and tires are something I need (dedicated)

Im just looking for a direction to go in. I know everything takes time and practice.

Thanks

[M0nk3y]

Run this season with nothing. Run with what tires you have on (even if they are crappy) and get to know your lines.

I know you want to be serious, but it all starts with a good driver...seriously. If you go out and buy new stickier tires, then you will not know when you did something wrong (For example all-season tires make massive noise on understeer and loosing traction as opposed to Hankook RS-3s which are quite when you can be understeering the whole turn).

I ran a year with all-season tires on my old E46. I started at the end of class list but at the end of the year I was mid-group...and I actually reached the end of my tire's capability...I got to know the lines, good flow...etc.

Now with this E86 I have sticker tires, but because I have a good line techniques; I can learn this car much quickly. Even though I have a stock car, today I beat a E92 M3 by 4.5 seconds. He has 100 more HP, but he couldn't drive the damn thing...which makes all of the difference.

Anyways, I'd shoot for a ST_ class. You'd probably fall into STX because of the Suspension. You can mod the exhaust and intake and stay in D-Stock

[M3TA5IN]

Thanks monkey, the reason I was asking about most functional mods was because I'm going to mod regardless just might as well be something good to have ya know. I just cant help myself with getting stuff.

I was concerned about tires not for stickys, but doesn't it tear up your tires fast? I don't want to destroy my dd tires is all, I could care less about r compounds as this point. I agree I need to drive and learn first

[M0nk3y]

Thanks monkey, the reason I was asking about most functional mods was because I'm going to mod regardless just might as well be something good to have ya know. I just cant help myself with getting stuff.

I was concerned about tires not for stickys, but doesn't it tear up your tires fast? I don't want to destroy my dd tires is all, I could care less about r compounds as this point. I agree I need to drive and learn first

I ran 10 Auto-X Events on my Hankook V4s last year when I had my E46 and the tire wear was little to none. Still plenty of tread. When you run higher treadwear ratings (300-350+) The wear is minimal.

I would just mod into a Street Tire Class. If you stay in stock you're going to have to battle R-Compound cars. STX in my area is extremely tight, and you usually always find a car to go up against. Suspension and Sways are your best bet now. I'd avoid exhaust, intake and chip IMO....they don't do you anygood in autocross where handling is key

[spencers]

Agreed with Kyle.

You need NOTHING! Get out there and have fun!!!!!

That's what autocross is all about. You don't need stupid bolt-ons. :) You need to learn to be a better driver! No mod is going to make you better. (OK maybe tires, but you shouldn't be considering r-comps until you have about a year of experience, IMO)

[M0nk3y]

Agreed with Kyle.

You need NOTHING! Get out there and have fun!!!!!

That's what autocross is all about. You don't need stupid bolt-ons. :) You need to learn to be a better driver! No mod is going to make you better. (OK maybe tires, but you shouldn't be considering r-comps until you have about a year of experience, IMO)

I'm not even going to consider R-Comps and I've been doing it for 2 years. I'm just getting RS-3s.

IMO you only need R-Comps if you go to nationals. Going through a set each year is crazy. Not to mention the price tag on them is outrageous.

[M3TA5IN]

Ok I need to read over the classes that was confusing me but I just skimmed the scca PDF on my phone while I was watching

[M0nk3y]

Ok I need to read over the classes that was confusing me but I just skimmed the scca PDF on my phone while I was watching

You'll either be D-Stock or STX.

[spencers]

You'll either be D-Stock or STX.

Different size wheels will take him out of DS

[M0nk3y]

Different size wheels will take him out of DS

Yep, I was going off the assumption on his last sentence in his OP saying maybe new wheels and tires.

[M3TA5IN]

Are 19s bad to x on?

[spencers]

Are 19s bad to x on?

Nope!

[billschusteriv]

Looking forward to hearing about your setup and first auto-x meet...

[bcleaver]

First of all, saweeeet! It's always great to see someone else getting the autox-bug. If you're going to mod your car anyway, it might as well be with the scca rules in mind. I did the opposite with my last car; I modded it for fun and then realized it wasn't properly set up to be competitive and had to re-do a bunch of work and spend a lot more money doing it right the second time, so congrats on not making that mistake already.

The the first step is to decide how far you eventually want to mod your car, what mods you want to do and where you want to spend your money, which will help determine what mods to do/start with. With your car (and i'm 90% sure without looking back through the scca rules that it falls into the same classes as the e46 non m 3-series) you have 3 choices for classing:

D-stock
D-street prepared (DSP)
Street touring class X (STX)

Here are my thoughts on each of these classes:
D-stock:
Advantages
You are limited to only adjusting the struts and front sway-bar, which makes one-time modification costs for this class very affordable. Since BMW's are pretty set-up from the factory they can often compete fairly well in stock classes.
If this is your daily driver it will still be pretty comfortable to drive around.
It's a good starting place for autox since you can't do much in terms of modifications so you pretty much just show up and drive (which as the others have pointed out is KEY) Good driver beats good car any day of the week
Disadvantages
Generally to be competitive outside of your local area you will need to run on r-compound tires. They are expensive. It is not unheard of to go through several sets a year at sometimes $2k a set. so while your one-time modificaions are cheap (struts, sway) the variable costs are not...at all.
You have to run a stock wheel. Sounds like you already have a different wheel on the car which wold mean you either have to get different wheels, or not run in the class
You are limited to stock springs and stock rear sway and stock tires, and, and, and. to me running a completely stock car is fun, but not 1/2 as fun as one that's been prepped to race

STX:
advantages
You can run street tires. They are much less expensive than r's and can last almost a whole season
You can do a bunch of fun suspension mods (the car will handle like a true race-car when you're done)
The PAX (the handicap in scca to level out cars) is the best in STX. so even if you ran BONE stock, you would be best off in this class.
There is always competition in STX as it's an affordable attractive class for many people
disadvantages
If you decide to go nuts a fully prepped car can get pretty expensive (but they are one time mods, not like tires).
It makes the car less fun to daily drive since the spring rates can be uncomfortable

DSP
advantages
You will have a mean, mean machine if fully prepped.
You can compete for fastest time
People will drool over your car
Disadvantages
It will cost you a small fortune to prep the car
you need to run r-compounds to be competitive (really big ones too)
you have to flare your fenders to fit those tires
it is absolutely no place for a beginner to start autox-ing

Soooo, with that said, the option to me seems pretty obvious. Start work prepping your car for STX. Even if you do nothing (which is not a bad place to start to get used to the car) you will have the best pax time and probably be more competitive there. As far as mods go I would start with tires. They will make more of a difference than anything else you'll do. Yes, you can get by with 19" wheels, but they are probably heavy, and I would consider downsizing to a 18 or 17' wheel. Again, not necessary, but tires will be cheaper on that size wheel too.

Then here is the list of priority I would place on subsequent legal STX mods:

1. tires (star specs, RS-3's or some equivalent) 255 or 265 are best
2. big front swaybar
3. some kind of coilover package with stiffer springs
4. Upgraded bushings all-over (RTAB, FCAB, diff, etc.) This step depends on how old your currents ones are. If they're in good shape this might move down on the list
5. Camber plates (the more neg camber you can get in the front the better)
6. exhaust (the stock is heavy)
7. Differential (LSD)
8. Seats (weight reduction primarily)

Start going down the list until it's more than you want to do to the car. The best part is, you don't have to start going down the list at ALL and still have a blast out there learning the car with what you have. I'd do a few events as-is and then start doing things one at a time to see how they change things. by the time you're done, you'll have a pretty mean machine.

Good luck, and hopefully that helps some. I'm also building my car for stx so you can check out my project thread for additional thoughts on the topic.

[Mike V]

Does your region have an indexed Street Tire class? Most (some?) regions add a PAX'd class that is geared for those of us who don't intend to spend 30 minutes changing tires for 4 minutes of driving (or those who might want to get more practice on street tires before moving to R's). You run against all sorts of different cars but the standings depend on PAX time. Your time would be multiplied by the PAX index then ranked accordingly. You won't see this class at a National Tour, ProSolo or of course the National Championship event. Here is the PAX index list:

http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2011.html

Example:
2002 Corvette Z06 on street tires uses the SS (Super Stock) index runs 54.000 raw time. His PAX time would be 54.000 x .857 (46.278). The .857 comes from the index in the above link. Let's say if you ran a 55.000 raw time in your 330i (DS), your time would be converted to 55.000 x .817 (44.935). You would have beaten him, since your PAX time is lower. PAX is sort of an equalizer to determine driver skill, considering cars' capabilities in the classes. It is not a perfect system and never will be but it's better than nothing.

Some regions also have a Novice class that is ranked the same way as the Street Tire class (by PAX index).

Do you have a link for your region's website? I would be able to see if there is a PAX'd class if I could see results from the last event.

As for being a points contender, it is not assumed that everyone will make it to every event so you might be ok with missing 2 events so far. It depends how your region has their points set up but usually 1 or 2 events are dropped off the final tally.

I fully agree with what Monkey said in his first post. Learning on street tires will make you a faster driver on R-comps, when that time comes.

[murph]

I'd recommend against doing lots of mods to your E90. Even the E46 is pretty heavy for STX. You'll likely find that even as you continue to improve as a driver, your E90 330i is not going to be competitive in any class. Then you'll have a bunch of money into mods that you'll have to dump and that money won't have gone towards the different car you'll eventually want to buy for autocross.

If you really want to mod, I'd keep them reasonably priced and street-friendly. Some Eibach or H&R springs, some H&R swaybars, new wheels/tires, and maybe camber plates. They'll help a lot, make the car more fun to drive, and won't be things you'll regret blowing a lot of money on and making your nice daily driver uncomfortable on the street. Because even with a full build, spending $15k or more, you're not going to be running at the top of STX or DSP or any other class in the E90 330i.

[M3TA5IN]

Thanks for all the advice guys!!!!

My scca region is Susquehanna region. I'm on my phone but can find a link when I get home.

Keep it coming, I'm trying to learn as much as I can

[M3TA5IN]

Oh and I should be looking at scca right? Bmwcca wouldn't be any better?

I'll probably really get into this so I just want the best group for the most potential going upward.

Also I kinda figured the 330i woudnt be a true champion in the long run. What are some BMWs that are in STX? E36 M3? I've always wanted one of those. Any others or are BMWs not that competitive in this class?

[Terry]

BMW CCA autocrosses, from what I have experienced over the years, are going to focus on 'track' time and learning. SCCA seat time from what I remember is going to be just a handful of runs (ie, 3). That is off memory though, I'm sure one of the autocross guys can correct me if I'm wrong. I know at our local BMW CCA autocrosses you get 8 practice and 3 timed-runs. So maybe start with BMW CCA to get acquainted and go from there? As for rules BMW CCA is quite vague (ie, M-Stock, M-Modified, 6cyl stock, 6cyl modified (you) ). Only general advice I have is to run on standard (non ultra high performance) street tires for as long as you can. That's my opinion anyway....although most people just say I'm cheap :)

Congrats on that car, btw.

[bcleaver]

I'd recommend against doing lots of mods to your E90. Even the E46 is pretty heavy for STX. You'll likely find that even as you continue to improve as a driver, your E90 330i is not going to be competitive in any class. Then you'll have a bunch of money into mods that you'll have to dump and that money won't have gone towards the different car you'll eventually want to buy for autocross.

If you really want to mod, I'd keep them reasonably priced and street-friendly. Some Eibach or H&R springs, some H&R swaybars, new wheels/tires, and maybe camber plates. They'll help a lot, make the car more fun to drive, and won't be things you'll regret blowing a lot of money on and making your nice daily driver uncomfortable on the street. Because even with a full build, spending $15k or more, you're not going to be running at the top of STX or DSP or any other class in the E90 330i.

I agree with this. Do some minor mods and see if it's something you really want to do competitively. If so, go find the right car for you that can be competitive in whatever class you decide you want to race in.

[Mike V]

E36 M3 is still in STU getting slaughtered by Evos and STIs. The quick BMWs in STX are the E30 M3 and E36 325i/328i. The E30 325i/is is also fairly quick.

[spencers]

I agree with this. Do some minor mods and see if it's something you really want to do competitively. If so, go find the right car for you that can be competitive in whatever class you decide you want to race in.

Yeah, just get out there and have fun. Decide later whether to do a build or not.

[M3TA5IN]

E36 M3 is still in STU getting slaughtered by Evos and STIs. The quick BMWs in STX are the E30 M3 and E36 325i/328i. The E30 325i/is is also fairly quick.


Hmmm, hate to say it, but maybe if its something I really want to get into a Subaru is a good idea. I dont really want to drive the bmw in the winter anyway lol.

[spencers]

Hmmm, hate to say it, but maybe if its something I really want to get into a Subaru is a good idea. I dont really want to drive the bmw in the winter anyway lol.

Look at results from Nationals if you want to get an idea of contender cars. :)
Here's the results from Blytheville Nationals a couple weeks ago, for example.
http://www.scca.com/popup/raceresult.aspx?event=17116&file=1325

There are a few folks in there that I auto-x with, who are REALLY good at the local level, but if you look at the results, they're getting 15 and 16th places in STR, and 9th in STU

[M0nk3y]

I'm still waiting to get a dry day all around so I can compare with STU. In STX you either need a prep'ed RX-8 or a prep'ed RX-8 to compete on national level, lol

[M3TA5IN]

I'm still waiting to get a dry day all around so I can compare with STU. In STX you either need a prep'ed RX-8 or a prep'ed RX-8 to compete on national level, lol

There was 1 RX-8 at the one I went to this weekend, he was doing alright. I wonder if RX-7s do good.

[bcleaver]

I'm still waiting to get a dry day all around so I can compare with STU. In STX you either need a prep'ed RX-8 or a prep'ed RX-8 to compete on national level, lol

Nationally in STX the cars that have done well, course dependent, are civic si's, e36 non m 3 series, rx-8's e-30 m3's, wrx, and hopefully (although not many are being built) e46 non m 3 series (zhp!). Other slightly out of contention cars seem to be the min cooper s and acura rsx type s

[murph]

Yep, while the RX-8 is one of the stronger cars in the class, an RX-8 hasn't won yet. The ZHP can get it done, but they're not cheap to build and only a couple of us are trying with much effort.

Anyway, drive your car with minimal mods while you're learning, and take as much instruction as you can. Find some co-drives or ride alongs with some different cars and see what you like. The answer is usually Miata, for about five different classes, for a good reason. =]

BMWCCA is very location-dependent, and much more about putzing around and having fun. SCCA is srs bsns, and where you'll find the best competition most widely. Number of runs will depend largely on the local club and how well it's organized. We usually get 6 runs in for 135ish drivers, but it has to be run like the military to achieve that.

[M3TA5IN]

Yep, while the RX-8 is one of the stronger cars in the class, an RX-8 hasn't won yet. The ZHP can get it done, but they're not cheap to build and only a couple of us are trying with much effort.

Anyway, drive your car with minimal mods while you're learning, and take as much instruction as you can. Find some co-drives or ride alongs with some different cars and see what you like. The answer is usually Miata, for about five different classes, for a good reason. =]



BMWCCA is very location-dependent, and much more about putzing around and having fun. SCCA is srs bsns, and where you'll find the best competition most widely. Number of runs will depend largely on the local club and how well it's organized. We usually get 6 runs in for 135ish drivers, but it has to be run like the military to achieve that.

I like the SRS BZNs :)

I also refuse to ever get a miata lol :P Although, oddly the fastest I have ever done in a straight was in a miata lol.