eBay Headers

[05ZIPPYZHP]

Background-
I am fairly mechanically skilled, I am methodical resulting in slower but thorough installations. I also had the help on one other person periodically during the process. As far as homework goes, I checked multiple online postings to fully understand what I was purchasing. Downloaded and saved many DIY installation guides. Used the BMW service manual for further help. Pretty much, I looked at everything possible to make sure I was not about to spend $100 on shiny boat anchors.

On to the review-
I purchased them from a seller with over 20 sells on the exact set I bought all with positive feedback and no warnings of poor fitment. The headers look great, very race oriented appeal and sounds great with the OEM exhaust. The welds look like they should hold up, just not quite the same level you would see from company's such as SS or AA. In fact, all the people who say they are copies of AA of SS, well they are terribly wrong. The quality and engineering is simply just not there. The bungs for the front O2 sensors are in awful positions making it near impossible to access them without using a crow's foot wrench. The post cat bungs ARE useless. They are positioned in such an angle that nothing can be placed in the hole except the plug provided to prevent leaking. In fact, a wrench can not even be placed on the plug to tighten if one came loose. It's left me with two options for fixing this issue 1.) take to an exhaust shop where new bungs can be welded on 2.) buy software to correct the sensor fault codes. The final ordeal was the uneven alignment of the matting surface of header to exhaust flange. The exhaust pipe flanges are flush, while the header flanges are offset. After an hour of reconfiguring, I used grade 8 bolts and extra gaskets to draw one exhaust pipe closer in, thus fixing the staggered alignment.
1212
Header Flange to Head

1213
Plugged O2 Sensor Bungs

1214
Headers to Exhaust Flange


If I had to do it again I would probably save for a quality brand set up. This project took well over 12 hours due to having to contend with fabricating them to fit properly. I believe with good quality parts it could be accomplished in 8 hours. I would recommend these to any one who wants to spend a little amount of money and a massive amount of time making these fit and being okay with stressing the exhaust flange joints.

To sum it up-

Pros-
Cheap
Deep low growl amplified while no highway drone
Eye candy under the hood
Good header flange to head fitment.

Cons-
O2 sensor bung locations prevent installing rear sensors
Poor fitment for mounting to exhaust pipe flanges
Different hole size for stud to fasten to exhaust pipes

Here are a few pictures of the factory headers to see just how restrictive they are-
1215
1216

Hopefully this has helped anyone on the fence about getting these. Pictures will follow.

[kayger12]

Great write up. Thanks for posting.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Much appreciated.

[johnrando]

Great write up. Thanks for posting.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.
+1 looking forward to pics!

[static667]

Thanks for the review.

[05ZIPPYZHP]

Updated with some pictures. Feel free to ask for any specifics as well!

[cparker]

Any performance difference?

[05ZIPPYZHP]

I've noticed a stronger pull in gears 1-3 and what appears to be a much faster climb in RPM. I plan on running it on a dyno once I can decide on what software to purchase.

[TTI]

I've dynoed eBay ones (from trader-nas) on my 85k miles 2004 ZHP Auto:
before - 217 hp 305 NM
after - 235 hp 345 NM

aFe in stock place, TSE 3 exhaust, no cats at all. No other mods for engine parts.

[danewilson77]

Good gain. 20 more to the wheels.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Hornung418]

I've dynoed eBay ones (from trader-nas) on my 85k miles 2004 ZHP Auto:
before - 217 hp 305 NM
after - 235 hp 345 NM

aFe in stock place, TSE 3 exhaust, no cats at all. No other mods for engine parts.
Not to piss on your parade, but I find that really hard to believe. Which dyno were you on and what was the correction factor?

The reason I doubt you is that one of the fastest N/A 330s only makes 237 at the wheels and has had a lot of engine work.

[TTI]

Not to piss on your parade, but I find that really hard to believe. Which dyno were you on and what was the correction factor?

The reason I doubt you is that one of the fastest N/A 330s only makes 237 at the wheels and has had a lot of engine work.

DynoJet
235 is bhp and not whp ;) 15% drivetrain loss
I just wanted to show the difference before and after. No theory, just practice.

[Hornung418]

DynoJet
235 is bhp and not whp ;) 15% drivetrain loss
I just wanted to show the difference before and after. No theory, just practice.
You should never base your numbers off of an imaginary drivetrain loss. That's just silly. There is no way you can know the exact percentage of power lost from the crank to the rear wheels. Please use your numbers for the wheels, when you do want to share your numbers, as that is actual real usable power and not imaginary numbers from a guesstimate percentage.

Just so we're clear, the stock horsepower from the factory at the crank is 235...if you're only making 217 there's the only pinhole I need to deflate your 'practice.' The ZHP has put down time and time again an anywhere from 200-209 rwhp and that's in the 6MT. without a torque converter.

In for the real numbers!

[Smolck]

I just installed these on a friends normal 330 and it gave a nice sound and a good "feel" of more power. I would think the ZHP would make a little bit more due to the cams being a little more aggressive and thereby allowing more exhaust flow when freed up? Sound plausible?

[Hornung418]

It won't make more power, but will have more whp due to the 10 hp difference between engines.

[UdubBadger]

pulling your cats won't make actual power without a tune. It allows you to TUNE for a touch more power but thats it. This isn't like a down pipe on a turbo'd car where you slap it on and get 20whp instantly.

[Hornung418]

pulling your cats won't make actual power without a tune. It allows you to TUNE for a touch more power but thats it. This isn't like a down pipe on a turbo'd car where you slap it on and get 20whp instantly.
Nah, you don't need a tune to take advantage of equal length headers. When you optimize flow of the exhaust, the DME will adapt to the change in exhaust velocity...But, you can utilize a tune to make more power over the Stock DME w/ headers.

[UdubBadger]

you won't actually MAKE power though, you'll just get more efficient acceleration. with the headers, you will be able to tune a car a touch more aggressively than you could with the stock ones and a tune which will make a touch more power than just the tune. However, headers alone won't make any power on a dyno without proper tuning for them.

[Hornung418]

you won't actually MAKE power though, you'll just get more efficient acceleration. with the headers, you will be able to tune a car a touch more aggressively than you could with the stock ones and a tune which will make a touch more power than just the tune. However, headers alone won't make any power on a dyno without proper tuning for them.
Give it 200 miles for the DME to adapt and you will find that you've gained 15-20 horsepower without doing a thing. This is a proven gain on the M5x series motors. You can find countless threads on e46fanatics.

There is a MAJOR difference between the stock exhaust collectors and the ebay reps:
2919

[danewilson77]

So you will actually gain HP.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Hornung418]

So you will actually gain HP.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT
Correct.

[danewilson77]

Correct.

Thanks. That's what I thought.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[UdubBadger]

Give it 200 miles for the DME to adapt and you will find that you've gained 15-20 horsepower without doing a thing. This is a proven gain on the M5x series motors. You can find countless threads on e46fanatics.

There is a MAJOR difference between the stock exhaust collectors and the ebay reps:
2919
show me a dyno

[Hornung418]

show me a dyno

In NYC for the weekend, but you can look on e46fanatics for the dyno thread in the General Section.

Increased flow leads to higher exhaust velocity, which leads to increased exhaust scavenging, which eventually leads to a leaner A/F ratio meaning more horsepower. It works. No tuning necessary. It worked with my manifold swap and will work with ebay headers.

This is not a cat vs. non-cat discussion, this is an improvement over the clusterfuck of an exhaust collector BMW put on the M52TU/M54 engines.

Courtesy of Gingerbread...

[SureShot434]

This is not a cat vs. non-cat discussion, this is an improvement over the clusterfuck of an exhaust collector BMW put on the M52TU/M54 engines.

Courtesy of Gingerbread...

^ +1 hehe :fistpump

I need to look for some new Headers.... lol

[bullfrogs_M3]

Interesting thread. So what options do we have for headers out there?

[danewilson77]

Interesting thread. So what options do we have for headers out there?

EBay headers.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=775190&highlight=headers


http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=571990&highlight=headers


HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[UdubBadger]

In NYC for the weekend, but you can look on e46fanatics for the dyno thread in the General Section.

Increased flow leads to higher exhaust velocity, which leads to increased exhaust scavenging, which eventually leads to a leaner A/F ratio meaning more horsepower. It works. No tuning necessary. It worked with my manifold swap and will work with ebay headers.

This is not a cat vs. non-cat discussion, this is an improvement over the clusterfuck of an exhaust collector BMW put on the M52TU/M54 engines.

Courtesy of Gingerbread...

so wait, you keep saying it makes horsepower but I see no mention of actual power (torque). Is there any because i thought that was what we were going back and forth about?

[Smolck]

I just want to add that I just had a short drag race with my friend (no, I do not condone street racing) who has a 2001 330ci that I installed headers on some weeks back. So he has 150k miles, my ZHP has a 138k miles. He has a light flywheel and short shifter also, my car is 100% stock. We ran from a 20mph kick and ran to about 80mph. I lost by less than half a car length and I got a late jump. If my car didn't have a SEVERE 4000rpm dip, I probably would have won handily.

Why is this relevant? Well, he spent $1000 on real honest to goodness headers and he can still barely beat a stock ZHP. Is it really worth it to smell that bad and be that obnoxiously loud? Not to mention inspection issues?

[Hornung418]

Did he reset his adaptations?

You also have a shorter Final Drive Ratio so your acceleration is quicker than his.

Courtesy of Gingerbread...

[Smolck]

Did he reset his adaptations?

You also have a shorter Final Drive Ratio so your acceleration is quicker than his.

Courtesy of Gingerbread...

I do not know about the adaptations. Good question.

[Hornung418]

Have him make sure that they were cleared and then race again.

[Smolck]

Have him make sure that they were cleared and then race again.

Can they be cleared DIY style?

[Hornung418]

Needs to have some form of coding equipment. Can he do that? He should also look into getting either the latest US tune, or a Euro DME tune to run w/o the SES light. 200-500 miles is usually a good period to get adjusted, but resetting the ECU to new is the only way to take full advantage of the new headers.

The "Disconnecting the Battery Trick" is psychological and doesn't do anything.

You can reset Throttle adaptations by turning the ignition to position 2 and pressing the accelerator pedal down to WOT 4 times and turning the key to POS 1 and then starting the car. But the ECU is going to want the fuel adaptations cleared for best bang for the buck.

[LivesNearCostco]

Dane, not sure if these are mentioned in those two E46fanatics threads, but if I were to get headers, I'd also look at the ones sold by BimmerBrakes for $255 and Stett Performance (ceramic coated) for $395. They both cost more than eBay headers but much less than SuperSprint headers and are supposed to be reliable for proper fit. But alas, I will wait until at least my next smog inspection (every two years in California), and even then I might just keep the stock manifolds.

Links:
Bimmerbrakes headers (http://bimmerbrakes.com/site/product_info.php/products_id/29/osCsid/ef2c7a98125409ce28de37af79347de0)
Stett headers (http://www.shop.stettperformance.com/product.sc?productId=7&categoryId=4)

[Smolck]

Dane, not sure if these are mentioned in those two E46fanatics threads, but if I were to get headers, I'd also look at the ones sold by BimmerBrakes for $255 and Stett Performance (ceramic coated) for $395. They both cost more than eBay headers but much less than SuperSprint headers and are supposed to be reliable for proper fit. But alas, I will wait until at least my next smog inspection (every two years in California), and even then I might just keep the stock manifolds.

Links:
Bimmerbrakes headers (http://bimmerbrakes.com/site/product_info.php/products_id/29/osCsid/ef2c7a98125409ce28de37af79347de0)
Stett headers (http://www.shop.stettperformance.com/product.sc?productId=7&categoryId=4)


The headers I installed on my friends 330ci were BimmerBrakes headers that he also paid to get Jet Hot Coated. They did not fit good at all and the secondary 02 sensor bungs are installed in such a way that it was impossible to put the post cat 02 sensors on the car. He had to go to a muffler shop and have the exhaust pipe that mates to the second header extended to fit as it came up about 1" short and at an off angle.

[UdubBadger]

ouch that sucks.

so with the zhp's getting older and probably more common candidates for emissions testing, how is everyone getting around this when these are on?

[Smolck]

ouch that sucks.

so with the zhp's getting older and probably more common candidates for emissions testing, how is everyone getting around this when these are on?

Here in Alabama we don't have any inspections at all. I have heard even if you add aftermarket high flow cats and put them further downstream that your BMW will be "legal" but still won't pass emissions. I just don't see it as worth it for 10hp.

I'd also like to say that on the install I had to add studs to the head to accommodate the extra holes on the new headers. Factory was 8 per manifold, the new headers have 12 holes each. Also created a hassle with the OEM gaskets that people suggest using, they only have 8 holes per manifold so you have to drill holes in it.

[UdubBadger]

well I'm assuming you can make more than that with proper tuning but yes, failing emissions makes it pointless as you can't drive your car on a street.

[Smolck]

well I'm assuming you can make more than that with proper tuning but yes, failing emissions makes it pointless as you can't drive your car on a street.

Even with tuning you'd be hard pressed to find more than 15hp. And for the money, it is probably better spent on a BMW Car Clinic or Driving School.

[Hornung418]

Well...that sucks that you added the extra studs...because those are unnecessary if the mounting point on the head is one solid piece. Just because there are holes, doesn't mean they are used.

Courtesy of Gingerbread...

[zhp43867]

The options for the 330 currently seem to be, in order of increasing cost: eBay, Bimmerbrakes, Stett Performance, Scmiedmann, Active Autowerke, Supersprint, RD Sport

Technik headers are apparently some of the best but they are no longer made.

-Bimmerbrakes headers seemed to have a much better reputation for fit than the eBay headers until I saw the pictures in this thread.

-Stett is a good company but I haven't seen any first hand experience with their headers.

-Schmeidmann's headers are very interesting to me, because for $700 you get new headers and a HFC mid pipe, potentially enabling you to pass emissions. They also have the best deal on Supersprint headers at a little over $1k.

-Supersprint is, well, Supersprint. You get what you pay for.

-AA headers seem to have no fitment or build quality issues whatsoever but they are a bit pricy.

To answer another question in this thread: Your best shot to pass emissions is to either buy an LC-1, which mimics the activity of 02 sensors in an advanced way, or to get cats welded in to the section of exhaust right behind the headers, with post cat 02 bungs, and hope it passes emissions. The aforementioned method has mixed success based on placement, headers, cell count, and which ECU your E46 has.

You can get software to turn off the check engine light, but it will then show the post-cat 02s as not ready on an emissions scan, which most states do not allow.

Software does add more gain than just headers, based on numbers, and partially a gut feeling I think getting headers without software is shooting oneself in the foot. AA is the cheapest for a tune and getting the light shut off- but some people on E46f are pretty pissed off at them after a recent GB for some reason. Shark injectors work to boost the performance but do nothing with the check engine light. ESS is the last company which hasn't been investigated to seriously for our cars, but the E46 M3 guys really liked the results they had in similar situations with ESS. I'd go that way if I did this whole setup.

Great thread!

Also, people seem to be getting a bit snippy in this thread. Not everyone is perfect with their quantitative and qualitative observations, but I for one appreciate all input!

Let's all get a group hug and start the new year off right. :grouphug

[Smolck]

Well...that sucks that you added the extra studs...because those are unnecessary if the mounting point on the head is one solid piece. Just because there are holes, doesn't mean they are used.

Courtesy of Gingerbread...

Probably, but I didn't want to run the risk of leaks. Nothing sounds worse than an exhaust leak.

[zj96sc]

As far as emissions, in GA, if there is reasonable proof that you have not "worsened" the emissions of your vehicle, it still contains originally equipped emissions control systems, passes the sniffer (older than '95) or plasses the plug ('96+) you should be fine.

No reason not to run full cats and o2 sensors - the parts all exist to do it right and still get the horsepower gains, might as well play by the rules.

Even in CA if it is CARB compliant equipment you can still modify your car. You'll have to look at your state's individual codes, but you should be allowed to install some headers as long as you still run cats (even hi-flow) and sensors.

[UdubBadger]

The options for the 330 currently seem to be, in order of increasing cost: eBay, Bimmerbrakes, Stett Performance, Scmiedmann, Active Autowerke, Supersprint, RD Sport

Technik headers are apparently some of the best but they are no longer made.

-Bimmerbrakes headers seemed to have a much better reputation for fit than the eBay headers until I saw the pictures in this thread.

-Stett is a good company but I haven't seen any first hand experience with their headers.

-Schmeidmann's headers are very interesting to me, because for $700 you get new headers and a HFC mid pipe, potentially enabling you to pass emissions. They also have the best deal on Supersprint headers at a little over $1k.

-Supersprint is, well, Supersprint. You get what you pay for.

-AA headers seem to have no fitment or build quality issues whatsoever but they are a bit pricy.

To answer another question in this thread: Your best shot to pass emissions is to either buy an LC-1, which mimics the activity of 02 sensors in an advanced way, or to get cats welded in to the section of exhaust right behind the headers, with post cat 02 bungs, and hope it passes emissions. The aforementioned method has mixed success based on placement, headers, cell count, and which ECU your E46 has.

You can get software to turn off the check engine light, but it will then show the post-cat 02s as not ready on an emissions scan, which most states do not allow.

Software does add more gain than just headers, based on numbers, and partially a gut feeling I think getting headers without software is shooting oneself in the foot. AA is the cheapest for a tune and getting the light shut off- but some people on E46f are pretty pissed off at them after a recent GB for some reason. Shark injectors work to boost the performance but do nothing with the check engine light. ESS is the last company which hasn't been investigated to seriously for our cars, but the E46 M3 guys really liked the results they had in similar situations with ESS. I'd go that way if I did this whole setup.

Great thread!

Also, people seem to be getting a bit snippy in this thread. Not everyone is perfect with their quantitative and qualitative observations, but I for one appreciate all input!

Let's all get a group hug and start the new year off right. :grouphug

don't worry, we're all adults in here, nobody's butt hurts yet.

In regards to the emissions:
I know software can code it out, my original concern was the actual emission that would set off that post cat sensor when being tested.


Also, I work for a tuning company called Eurocharged based out of Houston, we (now) do all of the tuning for AA's S/C systems and might even be doing their software all around now (haven't heard about that yet). If this is something you guys want me to have our company look into I will do it. For about 5 years we've done mostly mercedes stuff (some BMW) but my entrance was really to widen the BMW market for them, we just have spent most of the time tuning the newer turbo ones because of the mass gains a tune makes on those cars. We are now getting more into the N/A stuff so these are things we want to explore. I am still a big NOOB when it comes to a lot of this which is why I'm trying to piece it together bit by bit (i'm just a sales guy) so pardon me if my assumptions are a little off every now and then.

[Smolck]

No reason not to run full cats and o2 sensors - the parts all exist to do it right and still get the horsepower gains, might as well play by the rules.


This is one of the best things I have heard said when speaking of headers. Well said.

[L0veZHP]

I heard this I believe from Marcos a long time ago, that these were good http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-07-BMW-325-330-2-5L-3-0L-Stainless-Headers-E46-02-05-/300641667626?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ABMW&vxp=mtr&hash=item45ffa3ca2a#ht_1665wt_984 or that they were Ebay headers? and does the term "ebay" headers mean you buy them from ebay? or are they suppose to be a replica of very expensive headers?

[L0veZHP]

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1083-Supercharge-or-Naturally-Aspirated-(Mods)/page7

[zhp43867]

don't worry, we're all adults in here, nobody's butt hurts yet.

In regards to the emissions:
I know software can code it out, my original concern was the actual emission that would set off that post cat sensor when being tested.


Also, I work for a tuning company called Eurocharged based out of Houston, we (now) do all of the tuning for AA's S/C systems and might even be doing their software all around now (haven't heard about that yet). If this is something you guys want me to have our company look into I will do it. For about 5 years we've done mostly mercedes stuff (some BMW) but my entrance was really to widen the BMW market for them, we just have spent most of the time tuning the newer turbo ones because of the mass gains a tune makes on those cars. We are now getting more into the N/A stuff so these are things we want to explore. I am still a big NOOB when it comes to a lot of this which is why I'm trying to piece it together bit by bit (i'm just a sales guy) so pardon me if my assumptions are a little off every now and then.

That does sound interesting. Maybe you could help push a re-worked tune for the M54 MS45 cars... seems people on E46fanatics were underwhelmed with the flash they got from AA in the most recent group buy.

[UdubBadger]

we have heard that too which is why I think they reached out to us for tuning solutions.

[Hornung418]

E46 Fanatics Dyno Thread (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=768715)

[UdubBadger]

6whp peak from headers/intake. not terrible.

[Nivo]

I might do headers on the Sedan and add these:
http://www.mandrelbendingsolutions.com/servlet/the-665/Hi-dsh-Flow%2C-Catalytic%2C-Converter%2C-High%2C/Detail
http://www.mandrelbendingsolutions.com/catalog/spuncat.jpg

[rkneeshaw]

Why do headers at all if you're just going to add cats back in there.

[Hornung418]

Clearly to pass emissions. The cats aren't the issue on the stock headers, its the congestion that occurs before them.

Horney...via TT.

[Obioban]

FWIW, some tunes (e.g. Evolve) can turn down the post cat 02 sensitivity while leaving them turned on-- meaning they still show as ready for plug in OBD2 inspection.

I have headers and race cats installed down stream. Race cats, at least good ones, will still be sufficient to pass sniffer tests once they're up to temp. So, as long as you have a friendly shop, you can pass a sniffer with race cats just by taking the car for a hard drive and then immediately pulling in an doing the sniffer test.

Because it makes no difference with my tune and makes running wires less work, I have my post cat 02s in the headers with the pre cat 02s... before the cats.

And... headers do make power, not sure how that was ever in contention :shifty

[UdubBadger]

Yes, our tune does that as well.


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile

[Obioban]

Yes, our tune does that as well.


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile


which tune is "our" tune?

[UdubBadger]

Eurocharged


- Goin' H.A.M. Mobile